The property we are moving into has a steep-angle railroad crossing. At least, it looks steep to me for a 40-foot bus. We have an MCI MC-9. Does anybody have techniques or thoughts on approaching a railroad crossing with an over-the-road bus designed to be low to the ground? 

I was planning to have a spotter and stop the bus if it looked like I would drag the bottom of the bus. That way, if it looks too close, I can always back up before getting hung up. The tracks are lightly traveled, and I have the train schedule.  Also, I was "thinking" that approaching at somewhat of an angle may help.  But I'm not really sure.  And I do realize that at some angle leading up to the tracks, no "technique" will help.

Post by: busguy01 

The more the angle from the tracks, the better - that is, cross as near 180 degrees perpendicular to the tracks as you can - not 90 degrees to the tracks like normal.

Post by: robertglines1 

If you haven't already, this would be a good time to install an airbag leveling system in your bus. Lifting the coach five inches would be easy, giving you up to five more inches of clearance. A simple mechanical system would do for this case.  

Post by: Hi yo silver 

Absent a leveling system, which I wish I had too, I would suggest you have the train dispatcher's phone number handy in case of an emergency.  No law says an unscheduled train, work train, inspection or test equipment can't come along that track at any time.  There is no room for complacency here. I guess leveling planks might work in a pinch, too. But most importantly, don't lollygag on the tracks without contacting the dispatcher.  Well, unless you want an articulated bus.

Post by: plyonsMC9 

Ha! No, Dennis, I DON'T want an articulated bus.  I will find out the dispatcher's phone number, just in case.  Trains don't run on the weekends, but I would feel much better having that dispatcher number handy.

I can get a little angle on the crossing, but it is a single-lane road with little area to play with. An air leveling system sounds tremendous. However, the cost and timing are tight, as we have to be at that location very soon! I have two to three weeks to play with in the interim and will study the situation carefully. I don't want to be on the 6 o'clock news for the 'bonehead of the week award'.

Post by: kevink1955 

If you go there without the bus, you can take some quick measurements with two people, some string, and two rulers to simulate the bus clearance. 

Post by: Lin 

Robert once mentioned his simple leveling system, which involves connecting some cables to the leveling valves to pull on to raise the bus, then lower it once you reach the opposite side. Perhaps you'd have time for something like that. 

Post by: plyonsMC9 

Lin, I would be interested in learning more about that system. Is it easy to construct? I do have a mechanic friend, and maybe we could do it. I have some string measured for our wheelbase; I'm now grabbing the tape measures.

So, here is a little sketch to illustrate what I am thinking.  The red line represents a string with which you and a helper could walk the path.  Hang some weights from the verticals and keep them on the ground as you walk.

Post by: Len Silva 

If it's steep enough that you are concerned about high centering, you also need to be concerned about your bus's approach and departure angles, especially at the rear, so you don’t drag your front or rear bus frame. 

Post by: Hobie 

Is the crossing on your property (with an easement)?   If so, can you fill in the slope to reduce the approach angle?  

Post by: plyonsMC9 

I'll try to send a picture next weekend when we are at the property again.

The first test at the crossing with my new "string bus" didn't look as bad as I had imagined. However, having seen Len's sketch, I think I need to make another pass with something like Len's string bus, e.g., strings with weights where the wheels would be. It looks like I need to have a minimum 8" clearance to cross without touching. But again, I will verify with the enhanced bus simulator next weekend.  

Post by: plyonsMC9 

Thanks again to all who offered assistance on our RR crossing.  I've attached some pix of the “Moose's Big Railroad Adventure”.

As it turns out, for this particular crossing, the closer I got to the rear duals departing the crossing, the closer I came to high-centering. This was probably due to the steeper departure angle at that grade. I used the string models suggested by a couple of the members beforehand. I also went with a spotter and brought some good-sized 2x10s in case we were too close. Then we could have ramped up if necessary.  

Also, a very sharp 90-degree turn leads onto this very small country crossing, potentially complicating the safe crossing.

We'll have to be every bit as careful when we leave in a couple of weeks, crossing the tracks in the opposite direction. Hopefully, that will work out as well, as the approach and departure angles will be reversed.

The closest we came to touching was about two inches from the generator muffler, which is about four feet in front of the rear duals.  Immediately after the crossing is another 90-degree turn.  I tried not to hit the crossing straight on, but the road is very narrow, as seen in the above photos.  Then, after the crossing, we approach the 90-degree turn.  There are now a lot fewer weeds around the 90-degree turn. LOL!  In retrospect, I will use a lot more 3-point turns to get around the 90-degree turns next time rather than having to apologize to the neighbors for the extra furrows in their vegetable garden. (Just kidding) The extended bike rack on the rear hitch did just fine.

Caution, planning, and the board's many good insights helped us get through. Thanks again!

Post by: Busted Knuckle 

Congrats on a successful crossing.  Before long, you'll be buzzing across those like they ain't even there!

Post by: Runcutter 

Phil, congratulations on discovering that you can get across the tracks without dragging.  The pictures were helpful.  Notice how shiny the rails are.  That is an indicator of the amount of rail traffic.  You refer to knowing the "schedule" and that trains don't run on weekends.  Assumptions can be dangerous. I'm sure many people know the possibility and danger of high-centering on railroad crossings.  But a lot of new bus owners may not, which really concerns me.

Quote from the Railroad General Code of Operating Rules "1.20 Alert to Train Movement Employees must expect the movement of trains, engines, cars, or other movable equipment at any time, on any track, and in either direction."

So, how do you mitigate against that?  Approach the crossing as a professional bus driver is taught.  Stop not less than 15 feet from the tracks (railroad cars are wider than the gauge of the track) and not more than 75 feet from the crossing.  Open the driver's windows.  Stop, Look, and Listen.  When you know the crossing is clear, proceed directly across the tracks without stopping and without changing gears until the rear of the bus is well clear of the crossing.  

When I designed a Church Bus Safety Program, I paid particular attention to how many cars/private buses would stop for traffic signals, with some part of (or the whole) vehicle parked on the tracks.  At one crossing, I was in the left through lane and saw a car in the left turning lane that was afoul of the track.  When the crossing signals activated, I backed up so that he wouldn't spin around into my car when the train hit him.  The train hit him at low speed but tore the heck out of the car he'd just picked up from the body shop (with his wife following/watching) from the car behind him.  I gave the railroad crew my business card as a witness, shook my head, and left.

Operation Life Saver is a video of a train hitting a car in a controlled condition, showing the damage a train can do to a car when it collides.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvoK3hai9qw&feature=related#

Post by: Hi yo silver 

One more thing. If you have the good fortune to see a train approaching your disabled vehicle, you should run in any direction EXCEPT the same direction the train is moving. That locomotive will likely be knocking/dragging the vehicle and debris along the track in the direction the train is moving for quite a long before it comes to a stop, perhaps a mile and a half down the track. If you think it takes several feet to stop a bus in an emergency, try stopping 160 of them. Remember two things: it is nearly impossible for you to judge the speed of an oncoming train, and if it is running "any speed at all", he cannot even begin to slow down before he is well past the grade crossing. 

Post by: boxcarOkie

When you come to a crossing at grade (railroad term), your best bet is to remember one rule of life.  "Railroads are in the railroad business, not the crossing business."  Don't expect it to be to your liking or smoothness.  Like I said, "Look both ways, do your thing, and move on."  

If this crossing is of great concern (and potentially dangerous), report it to the appropriate railroad office, and they will work with you to fix the problem. They don't want legal issues because you got hung up on their track, and they came along and clobbered you.  They will fix it.

Post by: plyonsMC9 

Thanks for all the good discussion and feedback. And just in case any new bus conversion folks are reading this, we approached crossing the tracks with extreme caution. Again, we did not want to make the 6 o'clock news, bonehead Internet posts, etc. Plus, safety first!

I did have a spotter outside watching the clearance and surroundings. Plan: If you are getting even close to touching, stop and back up! Take no chances. Keep the door open, stop well before the tracks, look both ways, listen, etc. We could also see far distances down the tracks in either direction, but this is not always the case. Always expect a random train to come by, and be extra careful if there are dual tracks, as one train can block the view of another one approaching.

Almost no car traffic on the road also helped - nobody honking their horns to speed us up.  This was a quiet, rural area.  We will take just as much caution going the opposite direction the first time as well.  

boxcarOkie Interesting. I didn't think of contacting the rail office to raise safety concerns if necessary. Thanks!

Side note: If the spotter had taken a picture of us starting to LEAVE the crossing, it would have shown a bit less clearance.

Post by: boxcarOkie 

Most of this thread hit too close to the house for me Phil.  I have hit and killed five people in my career working on the railroad.  You can talk all you want about safety and shunting signals, pull a nine-year-old kid out of a mangled truck that didn’t make it, and trust that it will put a completely different slant on rail safety.  Please believe me when I tell you, “You don’t want to have to take that home with you at the end of the day.” 

I have lost buddies and friends to gravel trucks, gasoline tankers, and oil field heavy equipment.  Simply because some nimrod didn’t want to take the time to stop and wait for a train to pass.  People intentionally park abandoned automobiles on the track for us to hit; they shoot at us with bows and arrows and stand up an old freezer or refrigerator on the tracks to see how much damage a train will cause, with nary a thought about the guys riding that locomotive.

Every crossbuck in the nation has it: “Stop, Look, Listen”.  If you do, you will arrive home alive.