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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Melbo on July 22, 2009, 09:21:03 PM
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We took a trip and filled our fresh water tank with what should have been GOOD water at an RV park. The water has been in the tank for two months. We have left water in the tanks for longer with no ill effects.Now we are on the road and the water coming out of the tap is really FUNKY. I am going to drain the tank tomorrow and fill it with fresh water (hopefully the quality will be better than what I drain out) I remember posts in the past about how to clean up such a situation however I could not find them. I am thinking about adding some bleach to the fresh water (regardless of it's quality) and letting it purge the system. As a side note we do not drink or consume the water from our tanks. I am interested in advice about how much bleach per how many gallons will not adversely affect the water so it can be used for showering and washing dishes etc. Any information concerning this will be VERY helpful.
Melbo
PS I really want a shower and would like to smell better when I am done than when I started
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Melbo, a pint of Peroxide will remove the odor without any bleach odors and safe to use.
FWIW if you have a filter on the system it will retain the odor also.
If you have a house type hot water heater remove the rod forgot what you call it but it will make water smell like rotten eggs
I use peroxide because the wife is sensitive to chlorine good luck
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Do you have any inline filters between the tank and your faucets? We fulltime and i usually change mine once a month or so depending on how much hot weather we have. :)
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Melbo, where did you fill it and does it have a sulphur smell?
A lot of areas on the coast have that type water.
Jack
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Clifford, Good idea on the Peroxide, I don't like the other stuff!
Now if only I can remember the tip! ;D
Paul
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I always check and see where the water comes from. If from a well I always drain before letting it set. If from a water source that uses clorine to purify aka a city or municipal source.
If from a well or unknown source always empty before parking.
uncle ned
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As others have pointed out, if your "funky smell" is a rotten eggs type odor, and is particulary stong from the hot water, I would suspect a high sulphur content. If so, it is not really a matter of "sterilizing" your tanks using peroxide or bleach. Flushing your tanks a few times with a low-sulphur source should help greatly.
If your funkiness is because of stuff growing in your tanks, that is a different story. If you pour a large clear glass of water from your tap, and hold it up in front of a piece of white paper, what does it look like? Is it clear or purky? Any coloration? Floating particulates? Lots of harmful stuff can grow in potable water that remains crystal clear. But usually if the growth has a strong odor, the water is no longer pristine looking.
Either hydrogen peroxide or chlorine bleach can be used to disinfect your tanks. Others have expressed a preference for the peroxide, but I generally go the bleach route. Around our house we ocassionally use bleach in our laundry, so I don't have to make a special trip or have to worry about the age of the product. Bleach also has a longer shelf life than peroxide.
If you buy bleach, just make sure it is the type without extra fragrances, phosphates, or other laundry additives. Chlorox and some others sometimes print usage instructions for water purification right on the side of the bottle. That is convenient and tells you you've got the right stuff.
Typically you are to use 8 drops per gallon of water (assumes the bleach is a 5.25% sodium hypochlorite solution). That is equivalent to a teaspoon per 10 gallons. If the water is murky (which you shouldn't be putting in your tank anyway), or if the bleach is a year or two old, double the dose.
When I seasonally disinfect my tanks, I go through a multistep process. First, I drain the old water. Next, I fill my fresh water tank about 1/4 full. Then I add the bleach. I use 3-4 times the amount reccommended above for my full tank capacity. Then I fill the tank almost full. I go for a short drive, to mix the solution well and to splash the inside of the tank. When I return home, I start playing with faucets to make sure the bleach solution passes through all the water lines. I actually LIKE the fact that chlorine bleach has a bit of an odor. When the water coming out of the faucet smells a little like a swimming pool, I know that the bleach solution has reached it's destination.
At this stage, I typically stop for the day and get a beverage. If I'm in no hurry, I'll let the bus sit that way overnight and find some other project to work on. The next day, I'll completely drain the tank and flush it a few times with fresh water. I'll play with the faucets again to purge the bleach solution. If there is any remaining chlorine odor, baking soda can be added to the fresh water tank. It kills the chlorine taste/smell quite effectively.
That is just what works for me.
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The water came from what I thought would be a municipal water source near Corpus Christi TX. It does not have the rotten egg smell that sulphur water has it is something I have never run into before. It hangs on your hands after you wash them and I don't even want to rinse the dishes in the water. Thank you for reminding me about the filters. I have two in line filters and I think I will remove them if I cannot easily find replacements while we are on the road. Thank you for the peroxide idea also -- How big at tank will the pint of peroxide treat????-- we are going to travel about two hours and then stop - flush and fill. Any additional ideas will be greatly appreciated.
Melbo
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i usually get my filters at Walmart, about 10 bucks for a 2 pack, rv stores usually are about 4-5 bucks more for the same ones. I also stock up on them when i get them, 4-6 months worth at a time. :)
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I also make sure to clean out the inside of the filter housing when changing filters.
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It sounds like a high mineral content of some kind Mel. Bleach likely isn't going to help as much as simply flushing the tanks a couple of times. If you put enough bleach in the tanks to actually disinfect them it can be a genuine PITA to get rid of the bleach taste and smell too so I'd avoid it if at all possible. You want bleach if you think you got some kind of organic matter in the water, bacteria IOW. If you don't think that is the case then I'd just fill the tank and drain it a couple of times. And change the filters although they will likely flush out too.
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Melbo,
Been there done that got the smelly t-shirt. Drained the whole works a couple of times and put the recommended amount of bleach in and to be truthful I didn't like the chlorine smell any better!
So, next time I will try peroxide. If I get streaks in my hair does that mean I used too much??? LOL
You mentioned cleaning the plates... In all my days, other than the stuff at the bottom of our Koi pond, I have never smelled a more wrecthed smeel than our gray water tank after the stuff we scraped off our plates started to ferment. It was truly remarkable. About 10,000 timesworse than a hot summer black water tank. Almost hurled...
Hope you find a working solution...
Rick
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RickB...yes you are RIGHT on about the galley tank smell...I would have NEVER thought that could stick ssoo bad!
Jack
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Here's how I do it. The baking soda kills the chlorine smell and dissipates itself pretty good.
Freshening water tank
To get started the fresh water tank should be empty. With the hose hooked to the fresh water fill, use a measuring cup and pour 1 cup of household bleach per fifty gallons of water into the end of the hose.
Then, hook that end of the hose up to the water source and fill the tank.
Let this sit for 12-24 hours.
Drain the tank.
This is a relatively small amount of chlorine but could leave a slight smell/taste in your water system. To eliminate this: hook your hose to your fresh water fill. Mix a slurry (pourable liquid) of water and baking soda, 1 cup per fifty gallons of water and pour into the hose then hook the hose up to the water source and fill the tank. Let sit for 12-24 hours and drain.
You are then ready to fill your holding tanks with fresh water.
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Here is an interim update
At noon we drained the fresh water tank - water heater and replaced water filters and refilled them with the proper amount of bleach and fresh water.
We have since brushed our teeth and washed dishes with no ill effects or bad odor.
We are going to take a shower and do the final quality check.
Melbo
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I would suggest sticking with the bleach to avoid extra problem that you don’t need.
Occupational Safety and Health Guideline for Hydrogen Peroxide (http://www.moldknowledge.com/hydrogen-peroxide-ohsa-rules.htm)
* Reactivity
1. Conditions contributing to instability: Exposure to radiant heat (sunlight), sources of ignition, such as, heat or open flame; and physical or mechanical disturbances can create a potential fire or explosion hazard.
2. Incompatibilities: Contact between hydrogen peroxide and combustible materials such as, wood, paper, oil, etc., may cause immediate spontaneous ignition or combustion. Mixed with organic materials such as alcohols, acetone, and other ketones; aldehydes, and their anhydrides; and glycerol can cause violent explosions. Spontaneous ignition may occur when hydrogen peroxide is added to cotton (cellulose). Contact with metals including iron, copper, chromium, lead, silver, manganese, sodium, potassium, magnesium, nickel, gold, platinum; metal alloys such as, brass or bronze; metal oxides such as lead oxides, mercury oxides, or manganese dioxide; and many metal salts, like potassium permanganate or sodium iodate could result in violent explosions. Tremendous explosions can also be caused by unstable mixtures with concentrated mineral acids.
2. Effects on Humans: Hydrogen peroxide is an irritant of the eyes, mucous membranes, and skin. Inhalation of high concentrations of the vapor or mist may cause extreme irritation of the nose and throat [Hathaway et al. 1991]. The inhalation of 7 ppm causes lung irritation in humans [NLM 1992]. Severe systemic poisoning may cause headache, dizziness, vomiting, diarrhea, tremors, numbness, convulsions, pulmonary edema, unconsciousness, and shock. Exposure for a short period of time to the mist or spray may cause stinging and tearing of the eyes [Hathaway et al. 1991]. Splashes of high concentrations of hydrogen peroxide in the eyes may cause severe corneal damage. At very low concentrations (1 to 3 percent), instillation of hydrogen peroxide into the eye causes severe pain that later subsides [Grant 1986]. Skin contact with liquid hydrogen peroxide causes a temporary whitening or bleaching of the skin; if the skin is not washed promptly, redness and blisters may develop. Ingestion of hydrogen peroxide may cause irritation of the upper gastrointestinal tract and severe damage to the esophagus and stomach [Hathaway et al. 1991]. Hydrogen peroxide has caused DNA damage in in vitro human test systems [NIOSH 1995].
Sacrificial Anodes Rod in Hot Water Heater (http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/WHRpages/English/Longevity/water-heater-anodes.html)
The bottom-line is that by using either bleach or hydrogen-peroxide can have a dangerous side affect while treating the potable water supply. I believe bleach is more corrosive than hydrogen-peroxide but more reactive to most metal and some plastic & can be explosive. Remember, most hot water heater contain a magnesium rod. It may not mean anything.
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
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Gerald,
I don't think there is much to worry about with OTC Hydrogen Peroxide. It's only 3% pure, most of the rest of it is distilled water.
the link you posted:
Occupational Safety and Health Guideline for Hydrogen Peroxide (http://www.moldknowledge.com/hydrogen-peroxide-ohsa-rules.htm)
deals with H(2)O(2) in strengths of 60-90%, and yes, at those strengths, it is highly dangerous.
On the other hand, NaOCl, (Sodium Chlorite), or household bleach, (which is normally diluted to 5.25%) can become just as dangerous in higher concentrations.
By the way, for those of you who don't know, Hydrogen Peroxide is just water with one extra Oxygen molecule and bleach is just water and salt that has had an electrical charge run through it.
Fun stuff, chemistry!
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Gerald, that is a very interesting post but you need to check out the use of peroxide most all of the municipal water is treated with it now 32% food grade as they are trying to get away from chlorine use.
All new water treatment plants being built are using peroxide and ultra violet light for the treatment of water very little use of chlorine now.
I hope I don't blow up as I have one on the house here in AZ good luck
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We are going to take a shower and do the final quality check.
Am I the only guy that caught the "we" in this statement??
Maybe I should try the old "let's make the water weird so we can check together to see if it is better honey" angle.
Just kidding... and we don't want any more details!!! LOL!
Rick
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Yes Rick
The shower is built for "we" to use -- One of the unique features in "our" self designed coach. And as another update we were very happy with the quality of the water now. I know you said you did not need more details.
Gearld
We suffered no skin eye or mucous membrane irritation. In fact we are happy that we were able to shower and not have any unpleasant odor or the sticky feeling from the "BAD" water
When flushing the tanks and water heater the water from the tank was clear but had a distinct odor however the water from the water heater was murky slimy and very smelly.
The good news is that everything is back to normal now.
Thank you all for the input and helpful advice.
Melbo