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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Mex-Busnut on September 19, 2011, 08:22:35 PM

Title: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Mex-Busnut on September 19, 2011, 08:22:35 PM
Dear Friends,

During this trip up to Wisconsin in our little van, I have noticed a big change in truckers and what we used to call "highway curtesy".

1. When another truck would pass us in the old days, we would momentarily shut off our headlights to let him know when it was O. K. to pull back into our lane. Then the passing trucker would blink his marker lights to say "Thanks". In fact, many truck cabs back then came from factory with a "Marker Flash" momentary switch on the dash. On this trip, only about one in 20 paid any attention to my "O. K. to pull back into our lane" signal, and even fewer blinked "Thanks". (Mostly noticed older drivers ackowledging.)

2. I had at least a dozen times trucks come up to five or six feet behind my back bumper, before finally pulling into the left lane to pass us. This was on four-lane interstates, with nobody else in the left lane, and every time in rain or drizzle. And yes, I was doing the speed limit at these times. I can only imagine what would have happened, if I had had need to suddenly brake.   

Mostly, as noted in another's thread, this conduct was noticed in company drivers, not owner operators.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Tevo on September 19, 2011, 08:28:17 PM
I was told by a driver that some companies have policies now that forbids them from flashing lights for liability reasons. Not sure how widespread it is, just something I heard.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Mex-Busnut on September 19, 2011, 08:41:25 PM
That might be, in this sue-happy generation. But tail-gating could also get you a real good law suit.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: papatony on September 19, 2011, 10:07:23 PM
Mex::  It is defferant world out there now. If you will remember then most of the roads were two lanes and it was important to get out and back in as quickly as possable. I drove over the road until about 4 years ago an there are a lot of 90 day wonders and not many pro. drivers left .  A sign of the times.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: TomC on September 19, 2011, 11:07:26 PM
Now you know why I got out of driving cross country after 21 years.  Have been selling trucks now for over 10 years.  Much easier, make about the same money, and am home every night.  Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: pabusnut on September 20, 2011, 07:36:34 AM
Dr Steve,

I noticed all that and more.  I also see more than a few truckers talking on hand held cell phones hanging out in the left lane, oblivious to anything around them.

I also noticed "drag racing" on uphill grades.  On my recent trip out west I followed a truck in the left lane "passing" a slower truck (on an uphill grade) in the right lane.  The problem is that it took him 7 (seven) miles to do it at a speed of about 57 mph in a 75 mph zone!  These same two truckers then tailgated me on the downhill at 78 mph!  Add to the mix that both were placarded!

Several places, in construction zones, where signs say "FINES DOUBLED" I was nearly pushed through them by trucks tailgating me flashing their lights for me to move over!

I know there are many bad 4 wheeler drivers, but I thought that a "professional" driver had a higher level of responsibility, expecially with heavy and hazardous loads.
I know several professional drivers who have a million accident free miles, but I also see that they are now mostly paid by the mile, so the temptation is always present for them to make their only goal of "making miles".

Steve Toomey
pabusnut
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: TedsBUSted on September 20, 2011, 07:53:09 AM
In defense of not "flashing back" I'll say that some headlamps don't have much of a "flash" difference between low and high beams and sometimes shaking mirrors can show as much change without a flash or a quick lights-off. Then, some car drivers flash (or turn off) their lamps too quickly to give a clear signal. So, if it's not in a dark area, and if the truck driver doesn't happen to be focused on the correct mirror exactly during a quick and possibly rather dim flash, it may be missed.

And sometimes a driver may simply be miffed with the light flashing and be thinking to herself, "If you actually wanted to help, you could have let off when I was trying to pass; or moved your slow moving self over a lane so I could pass without a lane change; or moved over a lane when that slow car was merging in; or kept your distance from this truck; or some other such thing."

Ted
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Boomer on September 20, 2011, 08:28:41 AM
I owned a trucking company for 27 years, and drove as an employee for a few years before that.  Then I owned a bus company for 12 years. The state of the industry now is a joke and the day I got out was a happy day.  Poor or no training and no oversight has a lot to do with it.  The working conditions (other than large leaps in equipment quality and technology) and low pay are turning the industry into an immigrant industry with many drivers even unable to speak English.  And our govmit now thinks it's a good idea to allow Mexican truckers access to US highways.  This will further the downward rate and wage scales with resulting safety ramifications.  Do you want your family out there on the highways with these guys?  Tailgating, speeding and unsafe following distances are the norm.  It's a zoo out there.  I am thinking of installing a forward looking recording device for liability mitigation.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: pabusnut on September 20, 2011, 09:56:17 AM
I forgot one big thing that bugs me.  Those stickers on the sides/back of trucks that say "You are in my blind zone."  They make it like it is your fault that they can't see you, because you are somewhere you shouldn't be on the highway! ---in their way!!! Look, these days mirrors and backwards looking cameras are really cheap and reliable.  They could spend some more on safety devices and less on chrome goodies.

I want to put one of those across the top of both my windshield and back window "YOU ARE IN MY BLIND ZONE"!!!
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: letz4wheel on September 20, 2011, 10:56:59 AM
I forgot one big thing that bugs me.  Those stickers on the sides/back of trucks that say "You are in my blind zone."  They make it like it is your fault that they can't see you, because you are somewhere you shouldn't be on the highway! ---in their way!!! Look, these days mirrors and backwards looking cameras are really cheap and reliable.  They could spend some more on safety devices and less on chrome goodies.

I want to put one of those across the top of both my windshield and back window "YOU ARE IN MY BLIND ZONE"!!!

Actually they are making you aware they can't see you. It is generally not a good idea to sit in these blind spots for any number of reasons. Have you ever seen a semi tire blow? It will take out your windshield and your head along with it! I have been there and seen it. Ever had a vehicle come off the shoulder @ 20 mph 100 ft from your front bumper? I have, and I sure don't want to be the idiot sitting in the trucks blind spot! But go ahead if you wish...Darwin will take it's course  :-\
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Lin on September 20, 2011, 11:00:17 AM
The first time a drove across the country was around 1967.  At that time the blink/flash rules were important; they were more than just a courtesy.  However, as road improved, it became somewhat unneeded on multi-lane roads.  Now, for the most part (again on multi-lane roads), it is an anachronism (cool word, eh?).
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: prevosman on September 20, 2011, 11:18:55 AM
I think the light flashing is a courtesy that is about on a par with passing another shopper in a grocery market and smiling. It is just a nice thing to do. But if I pass a truck and he doesn't flash his lights I don't get upset because he has no obligation to do so.

I like to do it for truckers and RVs so they know I am saying you have cleared me by a safe margin and you can pull in. What I do not like are the truckers that pass and insist on returning to the lane about 15 feet in front of my bumper. Either these drivers are incompetent or stupid. If they have to make a sudden application of brakes there is going to be a problem.

Truckers trying to enter an interstate will get all the breaks I can give them, specifically moving over a lane when I can. But if I cannot move over I am going to maintain speed because if I start adjusting my speed (as though I can accelerate) then there are two vehicles that have no clue about what the other is doing.

Whenever we see a truck exhibiting less than professional driving it is almost always a cell phone, or the driver is messing with the computer.

When I am in my cars I do get seriously irked when one of these so-called professionals chooses to ride a few feet off my back bumper.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Just Dallas on September 20, 2011, 11:38:57 AM
Hmmm, lets see... they weigh 80K+ lbs., are 65'+ long and take an eighth of a mile to change lanes at 55 mph. They have a mirror that's 7" wide and 14" tall on either side. According to the NTSB, a truck driver makes over 120 decisions a minute... an SUV driver a lot less.
As a lot of previous threads here have mentioned.. If you can't see the driver in his mirror, HE CAN'T SEE YOU! Why not get your head out of your arse and figure out what they are telling you instead of being pisssed off that they are ruining your day by giving you information that you could use.
I won't even try to make the supposition that you are one of the ones that gets pisssed at the slow driver in the construction zone who is doing the construction speed limit.
I won't be happy when you become a casualty. I also won't be happy when you decide that the speed limit is too slow and you kill a construction worker.

Maybe you should rethink your priorities. Does another 3 minutes getting to your destination really mean that much to you?

Yes, I agree, today's truck drivers aren't as savvy as the drivers in day's of yore. That only means that your responsibilities are greater to keep you and those around you safe.

Those signs are there to keep YOU safe... your little car or SUV isn't going to make a dent in his/her truck when it bounces off. Even your bus will be sent flying out of control and you'll probably lose your life as the first person to the scene of an accident.

As they say in the south... Bless Your Heart!

I forgot one big thing that bugs me.  Those stickers on the sides/back of trucks that say "You are in my blind zone."  They make it like it is your fault that they can't see you, because you are somewhere you shouldn't be on the highway! ---in their way!!! Look, these days mirrors and backwards looking cameras are really cheap and reliable.  They could spend some more on safety devices and less on chrome goodies.

I want to put one of those across the top of both my windshield and back window "YOU ARE IN MY BLIND ZONE"!!!
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: bubbaqgal on September 20, 2011, 11:40:22 AM
I forgot one big thing that bugs me.  Those stickers on the sides/back of trucks that say "You are in my blind zone."  They make it like it is your fault that they can't see you, because you are somewhere you shouldn't be on the highway! ---in their way!!! Look, these days mirrors and backwards looking cameras are really cheap and reliable.  They could spend some more on safety devices and less on chrome goodies.

I want to put one of those across the top of both my windshield and back window "YOU ARE IN MY BLIND ZONE"!!!

If you are in their blind zone it IS your fault, not the truck drivers.  People think it's cool to get close to a truck and draft to save gas but if that trucker hits his brakes you are going to hit him.  Sure, many companies just put a warm body in the cab of a truck but that means it is even more important for you to pay attention and save yourself.  Those signs are there to help idiots that follow too close, not those that use their heads.  Which one are you?
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: pabusnut on September 20, 2011, 11:46:55 AM
Actually they are making you aware they can't see you. It is generally not a good idea to sit in these blind spots for any number of reasons. Have you ever seen a semi tire blow? It will take out your windshield and your head along with it! I have been there and seen it. Ever had a vehicle come off the shoulder @ 20 mph 100 ft from your front bumper? I have, and I sure don't want to be the idiot sitting in the trucks blind spot! But go ahead if you wish...Darwin will take it's course[/color]

That is my point!  There should be no "blind spots" on either side of their vehicle. I can understand that they can't see behind them, but if I hit the back--it's my fault.  If they are advising me that they can't see me(while we are both headed down the road in the same direction), then they are too lazy or stupid to buy the mirrors that they should have on their vehicle(or too incompetent to use the ones they have).  Where they place the sticker on the truck, I can read it and see their mirror through the windshield so why can't they see me?  The mirrors that are factory equipment on my personal car DO leave a big blind spot, and I have added the convex "stick on" mirrors that eliminate it IF I LOOK AT THEM!!!!  It only takes a tenth of a second to check mirrors prior to making a lane change.

I don't think the appropriate answer at the Manslaughter by Vehicle trial is "they were in my blind zone, so it isn't my fault that I ran them off the road!"

Steve Toomey
pabusnut
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: boxcarOkie on September 20, 2011, 12:05:26 PM
Gawd ...

BCO
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: bubbaqgal on September 20, 2011, 12:11:51 PM
So are you telling us that you don't have ANY blind spots in your car or bus mirrors?  No mirrors are perfect. Are you telling us that no one has ever gotten in your blind spot when you were driving your bus?  Sure, Steve, we believe that one.  Many idiots like to get in one of those spots and don't move and I am willing to bet that you have had people do that to you and I bet you got just as angry about it as you do at a trucker that doesn't see you.  Just because a driver doesn't see you does not mean he didn't look.  We had all kinds of people pull out in front of our truck, cut across lanes in front of us and then get mad because we almost hit them.  From your comments I would bet that you might be one of those people.  Stop following trucks so close, stop getting beside them and staying in the same place and stop complaining about someone being concerned for your safety.  Too bad you can't ride with a trucker for a day and see just how stupid you think those signs are when in the drivers place.  
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: gus on September 20, 2011, 12:30:40 PM
I flash when passed most of the time, usually if the truck is being followed by traffic. I get clearance light thanks then most of the time, especially if another truck or two is following the passer. The double and triple drivers especially appreciate this and I flash for them at all times.

Often there is no response but I presume that the driver is probably not looking at the exact instant I flash, easy to happen. When that happens it does not bother me, the world is not perfect.

When I stopped driving 15 years ago there were many, many sleaze-balls driving, not at all like the old driver gentlemen who were known as "knights of the open road". It got so bad we usually turned off our CBs.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: TedsBUSted on September 20, 2011, 12:32:18 PM
. . .I don't think the appropriate answer at the Manslaughter by Vehicle trial is "they were in my blind zone, so it isn't my fault that I ran them off the road!" . . .

I don't know.... To me, that basic testimony would seem to have merit as a defense argument.
Maybe at trial it would be cleaned up a bit to something like:
"Is it true that the car was traveling for some time in the truck's blind spot, which blind spot we've previously ascertained to have been clearly -if not boldly- placarded as a blind spot; and thus the car would have essentially been invisible to any driver, despite having intently searched for nearby vehicles?"  "Yes, that's correct."
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Len Silva on September 20, 2011, 12:35:23 PM
It seems to happen all the time.  I'll be tooling along in the right lane at whatever speed I feel like, and I see someone coming up on me, going at least 10 mph faster than I am.

Then, when they get along side, they just want to hang for while like they're my new best bud.  Hey man, friend me on Facebook or something but get the f away from me.  That sometimes distracts me and I get a little careless about staying in my lane.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Oonrahnjay on September 20, 2011, 12:42:00 PM
There are many idiot 4-wheeler drivers out there, and some truckers are inconsiderate or shouldn't be driving such a large vehicle.  And even a careful, courteous driver (of any kind) will make the occasional mistake.  But if I'm sharing the road with a trucker (or a pro bus driver), I consider that he's working hard to earn a living out there and I try to do everything I can to keep out of his way and make his life easier.  Sometimes it's a flash if he needs to pull in, sometimes it's a lane change to let him by -- although I usually am far from the hammer lane since I am firmly convinced that if everyone would stay as far right as practical, we'd all be safer and traffic would move quicker -- sometimes, it's dropping back further to keep my lights out of all those mirrors.  But I try to do what I can.  (What really torques me off is when I'm trying to move over to the left lane to let a trucker merge in and some a$$h*le in a BMW is burning up the left lane running 20 MPH over the speed limit.)  And I can't believe that anyone in his right mind would try to "draft" a truck!
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: jjrbus on September 20, 2011, 01:25:25 PM
Reminds me of a story, about 1955 my parents left NY and headed to NV. My mom liked to tell  the story about out west somewhere they lost their tailights in Nellie, Nellie was a late 40's Ford truck with a canvas and 2x4 camper on the back!

I remember Nellie well, the front and rear bumper were a railroad tie cut in half, it was painted silver and had the weights listed on the side.


 Anyway somewhere in the mountains they lost their tail lights and a trucker pulled behind them and somehow let them know their lights were out, stayed behind them till the next garage.  Probably does not happen anymore.

 
 The good old days.                             JIm

 
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: robertglines1 on September 20, 2011, 03:33:17 PM
I drive on constant defensive: Would rather be mistaken than DEAD rite. Let's all get there in one piece. Rite or wrong. See you at the end of the trip   Bob.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: letz4wheel on September 20, 2011, 03:52:57 PM
There will always be blind spots. The  unit is just too large and variable to fix problems. There are sensors on some trucks telling you when somebody is in a blind spot. There are largish mirrors that minimize blind spots. By the way those mirrors get bumped fairly regular...larger mirrors would likely get ripped off. All in all I think they do a fairly decent job of equiping a truck for the life it leads.
Trucks turn many,many miles a year, Dropping and hooking trailers, bouncing up and down the road. You expect someting electronic to hold up to the constant plugging and unplugging, being beat up when they are dropped on customer yards? Good Luck
 Drivers are on the road several hundred miles a day those same drivers did the same thing yesterday and will probably do the same thing tomorrow. They see the same things day after day. Look for all the common dangers. Guess what? they are human and do miss things. Like it are not they make mistakes. The end result is they are much bigger than you and if you happen to "be in thier way" you will be crushed and most likely dead so it really doesn't matter what comes out at the manslaughter trial. Dead is dead. I cannot imagine that any driver leaves the house and starts to drive and says "I think I want to kill someone today" You might just want to make sure the one that is killed isn't you.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: letz4wheel on September 20, 2011, 04:01:37 PM
Perfect example. Did this trucker miss a leaky axle seal, low fluid level, did it go bad while he was on his trip? Who knows and really who cares...just thank God you weren't driving next to him railing on about how silly you thought his sign was!


Terre Haute, Indiana (NBC) - A Terre Haute bank was broken into overnight, but police say it was not a robbery.

Two tires from a semi smashed into a window at a Harris Bank branch. The semi was traveling along U.S. 41 when the incident happened around 9:30 p.m. Monday night.

Witnesses say the tires went flying through a Long John Silvers parking lot before hitting the bank. No one was injured, and police think the semi driver didn't know the tires flew off the truck.

It's unclear if the bank will have to close for repairs.

Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: John316 on September 20, 2011, 06:52:48 PM
4wheel, I knew a young man that was killed by a wheel like that. Split his civic in half, and he never knew what happened. His younger sister was severely injured, and is still relearning everything that she used to know. His other brother that was in the car, wasn't hurt as badly. He still has that memory of his brother slumped over the steering wheel, dead. Yup, scary stuff.

I agree, if I am passing a truck in a 4 wheeler, I do it as quickly as possible (in our bus too, of course). If traffic is heavy, I make sure I won't get trapped beside a truck.

I have noticed that when I flash in the bus, I often get a reply. When I am in a 4 wheeler, rarely do I get a thanks.

I can't stand any kind of vehicle that crowds my safety space. I have gotten to where I will turn my brights on (day or night) until they are clear of my zone. Passing is fine, just don't chop my front off. Btw, that is a nice part about the new bus headlights that we retroed. Nice and bright.

FWIW

John
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: pabusnut on September 20, 2011, 08:07:34 PM
OK to clear up what I am saying--I have a problem with the sign.  I know we all have a blind spot some larger than others.  We all need to pay attention and do our part, whether that is equipping our vehicle to minimize the blind spot, not hanging out in the blind spot, or driving erratically.  I believe the ALARA principle from radiation safety should apply to blind spots.  With ALARA, we try to reduce the risk to As Low As Reasonably Achievable.  I want to reduce my blind spots to the absolute minimum I can reasonably achieve.  Most all dog-nosed school busses have the convex mirrors mounted on the left and right front corners of the hood so they can see students as they exit and go around the front of the bus to the opposit side of the road.  Many trucks I see now are doing the same to help eliminate the blind spots on their trucks.  The trucks I have seen with the "you are in my blind spot" (on the driver side of the sleeper) are not comparably equipped--they only added the sticker.  The sticker probably doesn't help much, because you have to slow down to read it, and then you are in the blind spot longer than you would have been if the sticker weren't there. 

I am normally in the right lane doing the speed limit on cruise control.  The only time I venture into the left lane is to pass a slower vehicle.

My problems have been with trucks that PASS ME, then slow down for traffic (or on a hill where they thought they could pass me(when I continue in the right lane at the same speed.  I can see the "YOU ARE IN MY BLIND SPOT" sticker as they try to push me to the right into the guard rail as they attempt to get back into MY lane.  Did HE forget he was passing me?  In one case I was driving a Suburban towing a trailer!--USED THE HORN AND HE KEPT RIGHT ON COMING--HAD TO NAIL THE BRAKES AND HUG THE GUARD RAIL TO AVOID GETTING HIT!

On a local Interstate, I had a truck tailgate me so close that I know he couldn’t see my car(I was in the slow lane going downhill at the posted speed limit on cruise control).  I accelerated to get out of his way, and when it was safe to do so, I signaled and pulled over on the side well off the road, and let him go by.  When he flashed past, I got the company name and promptly called the State Police.  You know what they said?  Did he hit you?  Can you identify the driver?  “Well if you can’t identify the driver, there is no case”  DUH?

Another case is where I am on the interstate(in the right lane) and a vehicle is passing me.  I am now passing an entrance to the interstate that is at least 3/4 of a mile long, and a tractor trailer immediately enters the highway from the on-ramp less than 500 ft in front of me.  I have to panic brake to 30 mph from 65 to avoid hitting him.  These guys don't even attempt to come up to any kind of speed or analyze the traffic situation.  Remember, If I hit him from behind it is my fault.

When I learned to drive, my mom (yes Dad was not the greatest driver) taught me to always keep track of the vehicles around you when you are driving.  They don’t mysteriously disappear—they are somewhere.  I know it is exhausting for professional drivers, and that is why there are limits on drive/rest cycles.   If you saw a car start to pass you, but you don’t see it now aside of you, and it’s not in front of you, then it might be in your blind spot, and you might want to hold off that lane change for a second. 

Good driving takes serious work! 

Bad Driving- Effortless!
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: TedsBUSted on September 20, 2011, 09:56:18 PM
Good driving takes serious work!  

Bad Driving- Effortless!

Interesting, because I believe that actually it's bad driving that takes the hard work and is so energy-draining and exhausting.

On the other hand, good proactive driving can usually make for  a calm and almost effortless ride.

Hang on PA, this ride's gonna be rough.

Articulated vehicles carry large blind spots; there's no way around that.

As far as a "blind spot" signs being difficult to read, I believe that the idea is for  a reasonable person to become educated and then remain aware of the fact that a certain  vehicle type carries a certain blind spot hazard. The presence of a somewhat standardized sign makes a  nice reminder, even if the text is not always exactly legible. After all, if a "STOP" sign should lose its "S" would a reasonable person then interpret that to be a "TOP" sign?

PA, seriously, I think you need to get a "bigger picture" when you're out motoring. Most of the situations that you are getting so emotional about,  could usually be easily foreseen, avoided or adjusted for, with no great effort and certainly without the stress and anxiety you're causing yourself. For example, about a mile or so before a freeway entrance ramp, you'll notice a sign indicating same, that's the time to start looking and anticipating what you may encounter there. Yes, it's part of your duty as a motorist to anticipate and adjust for the roadway needs of other vehicles. That may occasionally include jumping over a lane to avoid screeching up on the rear of a merging vehicle.

Slow merging - Believe me,  a heavy vehicle driver who is entering a highway at slower speed is not doing so because he's taking in the beautiful scenery, or hoping that you'll slam into his Mansfield bar. By looking a little further ahead, I believe you'll find that highway engineers saw to it that the truck which "immediately enters the highway" and causes you to panic brake could easily have been anticipated. Seriously, I can't remember ever having to panic brake in the way you describe, let alone often enough to mention.  

Down hill run - When you see the approaching truck in your mirror, pop in the left lane for a moment, let him pass -yes, on the right- when he hits his downhill "sweet spot" you easily adjust your own speed to keep some distance behind him.

"My lane" - Do you really believe that the lane you happen to be traveling in is exclusively "your lane" without regard to other usual traffic flow patterns,  and yes, sometimes even unique situations? Get real about that.

Passing - Sometimes a vehicle intends to pass, and then for some reason finds the pass can not be safely or quickly completed. When a pass is aborted, a courteous driver then tries to clear the passing lane as soon as possible. It's childish and selfish, not to mention unsafe, to block the vehicle in the passing lane.

Don't worry PA, besides a  few driving rough spots, I still love you.

Ted
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Lin on September 20, 2011, 10:31:49 PM
Pa,

I would suggest that even though you are in the right lane doing the speed limit on cruise control, you may be a road hazard.  I question whether using cruise control in a lane the requires a constant alteration of speed due to on and off ramps, and the variation of grades is just a bad idea.  If you want to be on autopilot, best move over a lane, and if everyone is going 5 mph faster than you are, set it 5 mph higher.  Whatever you are doing, it would seem from the guard rail incident that you are inspiring road rage in others.  Maybe it is your right to do so, but I question the wisdom.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Jeremy on September 21, 2011, 03:10:49 AM
For what it's worth - Range Rovers have a 'anti blind spot' device that uses radar to warn the driver about vehicles that might not appear in his mirrors. And cameras could be retro-fitted to any vehicle (ie., our buses) to give coverage in all directions at all times. But of course no technology absolves other road users of their own duty to drive with intelligence and consideration.

Jeremy
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: artvonne on September 21, 2011, 06:46:31 AM
  Boy, a lot of comments, but little in the way of personal responsibility. A sign that says your in my blind spot takes responsibility away from the trucker and places more of it on the roller skate. Same as back up beepers give idiots more legal right to run you over with heavy equipment. And the idea that you can "park" in the right lane on cruise control and need not make way for anyone around you is simply asinine and dangerous.

  Its not just truckers whove gotten bad, its all of society. We handed out DL's to whole chunks of our citizenry who simply dont belong behind the wheel of anything. And bad as some truckers are, they have to deal with all the idiot drivers in their path day in and day out. So many drivers simply do not know how to change lanes, merge, or maintain appropraite spacing, and too many like to panic brake and drive under speed. And its not generally anything you are tested on. You drive around some cones in a parking lot or your local podunk town and your a driver. The rest your supposed to pick up on your own. It is my firm conviction that freeway/interstate driving should require an additional endoresment on your DL, and without it you shouldnt be allowed out there. No stupid signs. No 27 mirrors pointed every which way. No 50 cameras blazing. Just more education and personal responsibity. Like the sign says, "lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way". Works with shopping carts equally as well as roads.

   
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: prevosman on September 21, 2011, 07:02:45 AM
I believe everyone is missing the entire point.

From the posts everyone on here is a safe driver and is aware of hazards, potential hazards, blind spots, and safe driving practices.

However the signs are for stupid people. I can dress up the wording to be less offensive, but does anyone with an IQ in excess of room temperature need to be reminded this vehicle makes wide right turns (as though left turns are not wide), that the bridge freezes before the road surface, or that if you cannot see me I cannot see you?

As a nation we are using less and less gray matter and the result is someone has to protect us from our own stupidity and signs on the back of trucks or bridges is one way of doing that.

Nobody on this forum can spend a day driving without encountering drivers doing bone headed things. I don't know if people are any dumber than they have been throughout all time, but today we certainly have multiple ways of being distracted, or just enabled to make stupid mistakes. Turn signals are obviously seen as a sign of weakness. Thinking ahead and assessing an unfolding situation is apparently never taught in driver's ed. Courtesy in a vehicle is apparently a lost art. Everybody needs to get ahead. Heavens knows that one or two second gained by passing and then spiking the brakes so you can get off at the exit ramp was critical.

We have large signs alerting people to leave room when they pass, but in my opinion those signs are as important as the signs telling me the 800 number to report a bad driver. They are a waste of resources and clutter up the landscape. It would be nice to have the frustrations of today's driving go away, but unfortunately there is a stupid school out there somewhere graduating people with MS (master of stupidity) degrees by the thousands.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Lin on September 21, 2011, 08:36:52 AM
Don't forget the homeostasis of risk.  That concept says that people are prepared to take a certain amount of risk in whatever they do.  Therefore, if you make cars safer, which decreases risk, they will drive in such a way to raise the risk back up to their personal level.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: prevosman on September 21, 2011, 09:44:17 AM
I think you are giving stupid people way too much credit. If they had the brain power to work through the calulations regarding risk versus reward people would be driving a whole lot better than they do now.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: TedsBUSted on September 21, 2011, 10:05:42 AM
Ha ha, this thread came to mind this morning. It was still dark and traffic was light as I was clipping along in the right lane, traveling slightly above the limit. I was about to pass a slower truck who was traveling in the left (smoother) lane. Even though I was moving along at  slightly above the limit, when I noticed a pair of headlights gaining on me fast I tucked in behind the slower truck in the left lane, so that the approaching vehicle could pass on the right and wouldn't make an  "S" lane change to move around us.

My motives were selfish though, because I figured it would be easier for me to give the fast car my lane than to agonize worrying about if he'd try a close cut while going around, or plant himself behind me so that I'd have to be concerned with him or his headlight glare.

Anyway, the fast  lights turned out to be a cop who gave a "thanks" blink of his signal as he burned off into the distance.

Ted
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Lin on September 21, 2011, 10:16:06 AM
Prevo,

I don't think that the process is strictly intellectual.  It would probably be mostly subconscious.  One is likely to drive a VW bug differently than a new corvette without putting much thought into it.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: prevosman on September 21, 2011, 10:48:27 AM
You are probably right Lin. The key is exactly what you said. They don't put much thought into it.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: Iceni John on September 21, 2011, 01:00:12 PM
Have you noticed that drivers of old VW buses usually drive very safely, if only because they'll definitely be the first at any accident they're in.   For much the same reason, us "real" bus drivers are also much safer drivers than most drivers on the road.   I feel that the almost universally low standards of driving in this country are the inevitable result of giving out too many driving licenses.   Look how difficult, time-consuming and expensive it is to get a DL in most European countries, then compare the US accident rate with those countries.   Car manufacturers also don't help  -  often the "safer" the car, the worse the driver.   In-car electronic distractions (I-Drive, anyone?), cell phones, collision-avoidance radar systems, self-parking systems, night-vision aids, cruise control, cocooning the driver in excessive luxury;  all these lessen the driver's involvement with the actual process of driving.   Maybe everyone should take some flying lessons to learn there is an immediate and direct consequence to everything you do!   (Simply, if you screw up, you will die.)   I drive with the immutable assumption that everyone is an idiot and liable to do anything at any time for any or no reason (sort of like driving in Mexico or India!), and I always think what a jury would decide about my actions if I were in an accident.   Too bad us bus folk are a tiny minority of road users.

I always try to respect truck drivers, even though some do not deserve such respect.   Above all, I never forget the laws of physics  -  they are an apex predator, I am small prey.

John
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: niles500 on September 22, 2011, 01:56:17 AM
We should all drive as though our Mother is in the vehicle next to us (especially 4 wheelers) - If everyone on the road would follow only one rule " slower traffic keep right" there would be 50% less carnage and road rage than exists now - look at some of your replys - most of your complaints have merely to do with people HOGGING lanes left or right - FWIW









w
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: prevosman on September 22, 2011, 04:50:13 AM
Just curious.......how is it possible to hog the RH lane? If we are driving at a reasonable speed such as the speed limit or slightly below how would that be hogging the lane?

If traffic is running at five over the limit, and I am in the RH lane running five under the limit am I a hog, or do I merely recognize in heavy traffic 65 or 70 MPH is insane because of my inability to stop quickly given the amount of space in front of me most cars or trucks leav when they pull in.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: John316 on September 22, 2011, 06:23:57 AM
Just curious.......how is it possible to hog the RH lane? If we are driving at a reasonable speed such as the speed limit or slightly below how would that be hogging the lane?

If traffic is running at five over the limit, and I am in the RH lane running five under the limit am I a hog, or do I merely recognize in heavy traffic 65 or 70 MPH is insane because of my inability to stop quickly given the amount of space in front of me most cars or trucks leav when they pull in.

IMHO, you really can't hog the RL. That is where slower traffic goes, or should go. However, when I try to pass you in the LL, and you speed up faster then you had been cruising, I don't like that. I don't think anybody else likes that either. Cruise consistently (lol, how is that for a bumper sticker?).

The other thing is the folks that camp out in the left lane.....But that is another subject.

John
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: TedsBUSted on September 22, 2011, 07:46:05 AM
Just curious.......how is it possible to hog the RH lane? If we are driving at a reasonable speed such as the speed limit or slightly below how would that be hogging the lane?

If traffic is running at five over the limit, and I am in the RH lane running five under the limit am I a hog, or do I merely recognize in heavy traffic 65 or 70 MPH is insane because of my inability to stop quickly given the amount of space in front of me most cars or trucks leav when they pull in.

There are times when there are better choices than the right lane for a slow vehicle.
One example may be a multi-lane freeway in a busy urban area, with lots of traffic merging in and out.  

If your vehicle isn't keeping pace with most traffic flow, or is very large, then it may be better to not use the right lane, where traffic enters and exits. In this situation usually it'd be better to use one of the other lanes, where merging traffic doesn't have to deal with your vehicle's slower speed  or its  large size.

By traveling in a non-merge lane, other traffic will easily predict your continued slower but steady pace, and non-exiting intentions, and thus easily and safely "take you" on all sides to help keep traffic flow moving and also the "cushion" ahead of you more open. Besides all that, it's easier for the large vehicle's driver too.

Ted
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: niles500 on September 22, 2011, 02:35:29 PM
Hogging the right hand lane has to do most with merging traffic - For example  I-70 in Colorado has many merge lanes that are not much more than 100 ft long and many of them are located on curves with no breakdown lane -  Some people refuse to give way to the merging traffic and instead of moving over end up slamming on their brakes causing those multiple rear end collisions - HTH
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: belfert on September 22, 2011, 03:18:38 PM

By traveling in a non-merge lane, other traffic will easily predict your continued slower but steady pace, and non-exiting intentions, and thus easily and safely "take you" on all sides to help keep traffic flow moving and also the "cushion" ahead of you more open. Besides all that, it's easier for the large vehicle's driver too.

My experience with driving in the middle lane is that you still have all kinds of morons driving fast who have no idea how to drive.  It really upsets me when I am driving say 65 MPH in the middle lane on a 55 MPH or 60 MPH road and the guy who wants to go 70 MPH tailgates a foot off my bumper instead of passing me in the open left lane.  I've been tempted more than once to slow down or hit the brakes.

I seem to have less issues when driving the bus as I think most car drivers understand the bus would crush them like a bug.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: prevosman on September 22, 2011, 04:32:52 PM
Hogging the right hand lane has to do most with merging traffic - For example  I-70 in Colorado has many merge lanes that are not much more than 100 ft long and many of them are located on curves with no breakdown lane -  Some people refuse to give way to the merging traffic and instead of moving over end up slamming on their brakes causing those multiple rear end collisions - HTH

Bus drivers, of all people on the road should know we are not hogging the slow lane, nor are we staying in that lane just to pi$$ off people that want us to move over as they enter the road. The folks on the on ramp that give us the finger, blow their horn and do all sorts of other things to experess themselves when we don't move over cannot see the car along side of us because unlike a semi trailer we block the view.

I will move over if I can and if is safe, but when I cannot I guess the people merging just have to adjust their speed, up or down. The problem as I see it is folks merging don't know if they want to get up to speed they actually have to press down on the long pedal.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: ArtGill on September 22, 2011, 04:41:09 PM
I think drivers should have to sit down once a year and watch an half hour program on their computer to renew your drivers license.  Pilots have to have a biannual review ever two years to be clear to fly.  This biannual covers changes in regulations and then check your flying skills.  I know this would never pass, but everyday I see drivers doing things because of the apparent lack of knowledge of proper procedures.

Yea, I dream a lot.

Art
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: artvonne on September 22, 2011, 06:16:36 PM
  Like I said, special endorsement for freeway/divided highway, special plates, and I would go along with some kind of driving review, though were not flying, 4 to maybe 8 years should be sufficient for that endorsement and should be able to be signed off by any licensed driving instructor. Regular dummy license without freeway endorsement shouldnt need review.

  Seriously, there is no testing for freeway driving in any state that I know of, and that is rediculous.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: John316 on September 22, 2011, 06:38:38 PM
 Like I said, special endorsement for freeway/divided highway, special plates, and I would go along with some kind of driving review, though were not flying, 4 to maybe 8 years should be sufficient for that endorsement and should be able to be signed off by any licensed driving instructor. Regular dummy license without freeway endorsement shouldnt need review.

  Seriously, there is no testing for freeway driving in any state that I know of, and that is rediculous.

Yup, and that simply means more government intervention ::) ::) ::). You will never fix stupid people and dumb actions. Just won't happen.

(The purpose of this comment is NOT to start a political debate, folks).

John
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: prevosman on September 23, 2011, 04:23:55 AM
 Like I said, special endorsement for freeway/divided highway, special plates, and I would go along with some kind of driving review, though were not flying, 4 to maybe 8 years should be sufficient for that endorsement and should be able to be signed off by any licensed driving instructor. Regular dummy license without freeway endorsement shouldnt need review.

  Seriously, there is no testing for freeway driving in any state that I know of, and that is rediculous.

Yup, and that simply means more government intervention ::) ::) ::). You will never fix stupid people and dumb actions. Just won't happen.

(The purpose of this comment is NOT to start a political debate, folks).

John

John has hit upon my problem. As an pilot with an air transport rating I pride myself on two things which I bring to my driving.....the ability to look ahead, and driving with precision. Call it ego, call it OCD, but I feel since I have a Class A license I should actually drive like I do.

So I try to anticipate what others are doing and make adjustments to my driving to enable things to happen with the least disruption to me and other drivers. It can be as simple as moving over so a car or truck can merge, or it can be speeding up when passing so I can get out of someone's way.

So I admit to being a little more than irked when other drivers are oblivious to the world around them and how other drivers are inconvenienced or exposed to risk just because their brain was on cruise control. What I have considered inattention is likely stupidity.
Title: Re: Truckers are certainly not what we used to be.
Post by: pipopak on September 23, 2011, 08:35:18 AM
(dreaming) issue driver's licenses matching the skill level you have. Good drivers get to drive the bigger toys, and down the scale until we go to the low end where the inepts just are allowed to drive a small harmless piece of road tin. If they screw up they get run over and turned into a harmless splat on the road. That would be natural selection, and a great motivation to improve.
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