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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Zephod on October 18, 2015, 11:50:07 AM
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I washed the bus, sanded the paint and then rinsed off the dust, allowed it to dry, painted with Rustolium and 10 months later... Rustoleum failure. I contacted Rustoleum and they asked the batch number and announced they were sending a refund. Looks like there are known bad batches of Rustoleum out there.
Looks like I'll have to repaint the entire bus after scrapping the Rustoleum junk off *sigh*
https://goo.gl/photos/mX2iMynW8TUaQmw5AA
(https://goo.gl/photos/mX2iMynW8TUaQmw5AA)
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Rustoleum, and all the same crap under other names, is not very good paint. I use it on some things, but the rust comes through in about a year. I sprayed some on a Suzuki Tracker used on the property, and it is faded after a couple of years, and some rust is coming through also. I would not use it if I wanted a quality job.
JC
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Even the big boys have paint issues. Ford had a major problem in the early 2000's. That is why you see 1000's of Ford's running around with peeling paint. The primer is as if not more important than the top paint. If it's bare metal an etching primer or a two part acrylic primer might be better ways to go.
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Mine "failed" too but it wasnt the paint, it was the prep work....which I knew was coming. Cant wait to hear how you take it all off!
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I'm not going to muck about with the paintwork door a while. I've just got the shower working. My next task is to put fresh and foul water tanks under the bus.
When I do work on the paint, I'll look at paint from Tractor Supply that isn't Rustoleum.
To get the paint off, I'll just soda blast if I can get Harbor Freight cheapass blaster gun to do anything meaningful (other than spraying nice plumes of soda around)
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Rustoleum has some good paint but you cannot buy it at a box store or Ace Hardware the stuff is expensive too
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Is that metal galvanized? Did you prime it with red oxide primer? Brush or spray?
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Don't give up on Rustoleum, at least for now. There are not only different grades, but different parts of the country have different VOC versions depending on their local AQMD. Rustoleum Professional has slightly more solids in it than their Stops Rust (which is what the big box stores mostly sell):
http://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Documents/RustoleumUSA/TDS/English/CBG/Professional/PRO-09_0313_Professional_Enamel_Gallons_TDS.ashx (http://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Documents/RustoleumUSA/TDS/English/CBG/Professional/PRO-09_0313_Professional_Enamel_Gallons_TDS.ashx)
http://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Documents/RustoleumUSA/TDS/English/CBG/Stops%20Rust/SRT-02_Stops_Rust_Enamel_Brush_TDS.ashx (http://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Documents/RustoleumUSA/TDS/English/CBG/Stops%20Rust/SRT-02_Stops_Rust_Enamel_Brush_TDS.ashx)
Then there is also the Industrial grade, but it's not available in some areas due to air-quality limits.
Somewhere on Rustoleum's messy website is a chart showing what's available in different areas - I can buy only 100VOC paint here because SCAQMD are the local smog-Nazis, but if I drove to San Diego or outside the LA basin I could buy faster-drying and harder paint!
My go-to hardware store has a few cans of 400VOC Professional (don't ask how or why!), so I may well buy it when I paint my bus. If you can find a way to buy their Industrial paint, that should work well on a steel bus body. However, preparation is everything.
John
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I used Rustoleum Professional
No primer - I washed and scuffed the yellow bus paint.
Sent from my Nexus 7
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We buy it in the gallon cans from grainger, they have a good line of the industrial and it holds up very well in harsh environments.
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The "professional" is the cheap grade sold by the box stores and hardware stores lol called marketing buying what you think is top notch because of the name
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The "professional" is the cheap grade sold by the box stores and hardware stores lol called marketing buying what you think is top notch because of the name
Nah. If I see "professional" on anything I just ignore the "professional" bit as marketing garbage. If I could have found something better I'd have used it. Trouble is, all Lowe's sells is Rustoleum oil based paint and latex interior paint. I made the mistake of using latex on the bus woodwork. It looks good now but it's quickly going to look worn.
Having been involved now in constructing my bus, I appreciate what a set of truly appalling stores Lowe's and home depot are. Their customer service is especially appalling and their head office doesn't have a clue what the hell they're selling.
If I was living anywhere but Columbia South Carolina then I'd be able to find the decent places. And the decent products. I assess the problem as being that South Carolina is just a hick state that sucks rather badly. Been trapped hers since I was imported in 2005 and this bus is my key to get the Hell out of turdville USA into a state where there are jobs, honest people and opportunities.
Sent from my Nexus 7
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Humm I take it you don't like South Carolina much ;D
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Karma > ?
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Nah. If I see "professional" on anything I just ignore the "professional" bit as marketing garbage. If I could have found something better I'd have used it. Trouble is, all Lowe's sells is Rustoleum oil based paint and latex interior paint. I made the mistake of using latex on the bus woodwork. It looks good now but it's quickly going to look worn.
Having been involved now in constructing my bus, I appreciate what a set of truly appalling stores Lowe's and home depot are. Their customer service is especially appalling and their head office doesn't have a clue what the hell they're selling.
If I was living anywhere but Columbia South Carolina then I'd be able to find the decent places. And the decent products. I assess the problem as being that South Carolina is just a hick state that sucks rather badly. Been trapped hers since I was imported in 2005 and this bus is my key to get the Hell out of turdville USA into a state where there are jobs, honest people and opportunities.
Sent from my Nexus 7
ROTFLMAO ;D :o ::)
Having lived in SC most of my life, my experience in Columbia SC is very different. I have always been able to find anything I ever needed - maybe not right away, but persistence pays off.
If Lowes & Home depot are such appalling stores, why ever shop there?
I wish you luck in your escape & that you do find the nirvana you seek.
BTW, for future reference - listening usually pays bigger dividends than arguing/ defending/ insulting.
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I too live in SC, have most of my life and I kinda like it here! ;D
Wes
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Maybe what they say is true - that everything looks like a nail to someone who only knows how to use a hammer.
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Problem I'm getting in SC is I just can't get work. I did admin all the time before I came to the US. Then I did front desk for an employer who subsequently died (sole practitioner). After that all I get is retail garbage or kiddue minding garbage. I send off resumes til I'm blue in the face. Doesn't do any good. Tried all the jobs websites and its all scams and agencies faking it.
It sounds like a case of having to drink at the right bars, go to the right churches or be in the right golf clubs.
Sent from my Nexus 7
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Kyle You sure have some nice neighbors must be some kin to my brother in laws neighbor. the one that shot him.
uncle ned
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As far as paint I've had good luck with industrial acrylic paint. Not the shiniest but holds up well and is easy to spray with an airless.
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Acrylic sounds good. I like to slap it on with a brush or a roller. I'd kinda like to stay grey. How much is it for a gallon bucket?
Sent from my Nexus 7
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Somewhere between $30 and $50.
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That sounds doable. I might try my grit blaster again with coarser grit and repaint but after I've done the front door unlock ing gizmo, battery compartment and water tanks.
Sent from my Nexus 7
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Humm I take it you don't like South Carolina much ;D
Clifford, I was born in Kingstree South Carolina so I guess I am a bit partial :)
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Not to high jack the rustoleum thread..........but what would be the best paint to paint a coach with?
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Imron holds up very well
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All of the single stage urethane's hold up really well. For south of San Antonio I've had great luck with acrylic enamel top coated with urethane clear-coat. All are available for 75.to125. a gallon. Professional or industrial coatings or designed to be kept up by your maintenance staff. They are not automotive grade finishes. rdw
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Imron holds up very well
True but in my (limited) experience it's expensive and hard to work with. It's pretty much the perfect thing to do the body on a dump truck but it's always seemed to be overkill for a bus. But others may know more about how to use it and make it work.
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Overkill, on a bus, used as a motorhome ?
I thought that was why we wanted a bus based motorhome - for the overkill of the chassis. ;D
Looks like Imron lasted over 25 years on mine. :)
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I have no dog in the fight, but I've used Du Pont's Delfleet Essential on three motorhomes now and have been surprised at the quality. It is a single stage polyurethane with a catalytic hardener that is as easy to apply as sprayed Rustoleum. It probably isn't as good as Imron but it is about 1/3 the price. Sprayed with a HVLP gun, it dries with a glossy finish similar to a factory paint job and seems to tolerate bird poop reasonably well. I have't tried color sanding and buffing though I'm sure you could. Jack
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I'm going for inexpensive, hence the bus. Over $35 a can for paint just isn't going to happen right now. Maybe in a few years. I'll probably scrape the loose and flaked paint off, scuff whatever's underneath and slap oil based paint over it. I've got a small pot of grey Rustoleum left over so I might just use that up. In some places the Rustoleum is well attached. In others, not so. Eventually I'll repaint with better paint.
Right now my struggle has to be to do the battery carrier, the water carriers and the door lock.
I got a bargain from fastenal on 10-24 2 inch hex head galvanized bolts. 3 cents each and they have 1200lbs sheer strength. My compartment will only weigh - fully loaded - 180lbs.
Sent from my Nexus 7
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Base coat clear coat for me Mike easier to work with. Kyle, Newell hasn't used 1 coat paint since the 90's I have no idea why Blades went to base coat clear coat paint.
A friend of mine Mike Wilson spent weeks at Miami teaching the process to Newell painters
Looks like Imron lasted over 25 years on mine. :)
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I have no dog in the fight, but I've used Du Pont's Delfleet Essential on three motorhomes now and have been surprised at the quality. It is a single stage polyurethane with a catalytic hardener that is as easy to apply as sprayed Rustoleum. It probably isn't as good as Imron but it is about 1/3 the price. Sprayed with a HVLP gun, it dries with a glossy finish similar to a factory paint job and seems to tolerate bird poop reasonably well. I have't tried color sanding and buffing though I'm sure you could. Jack
you mean PPG ??? ....(http://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/medium/ppg/delfleet_group-1.jpg)
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Lots of good paint for sale. Lots more bad paint out there.
One needs to define good before an answer can be given.
Then, there is the cost vs. benefit . . . . . .
At work, we use Imron for long term durability & quality. It is usually cheaper in the long run as we don't have to maintain it.
The base coat, clear coat may look the best for the least amount of work, but long term durability is an issue.
If there was a paint ( that would holdup to the automotive/ industrial environment ) that was under $35/ gal, it would not be sold that cheap very long as it would be worth so much more!.
When we have to go fast & cheap - we go to Tractor Supply & get some Majic Catalyst Hardener ( 1/2 pint ~ $15 ) & add the appropriate amount to rustoleum. It speeds up dry time & improves durability. We use it on guards & handrails. Holds up really well considering how cheap it is compared to other industrial paints we have used.
YMMV
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With all the no feel to the touch graphics on new RV's, with the blending and shading Imron wouldn't work.
If I was doing 1 or 2 colors Imron on any other 1 stage would work.Clear coat depends on the grade and the application it will last for ever also,people clear coat on Imron to hide the lines and it holds up that stuff is hard and tuff.
The durability of base coat clear coat or Imron all gets down to the prep work and primer without those all paint will fail
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Lol. I'm watching my bus as the paint slowly peels. Each day brings worse peeling. I notice its mainly where the sun hits the paint.
Is there any paint at tractor supply that's any good? I know to avoid Rustoleum now.
Sent from my Nexus 7
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Donald, yes, I meant PPG.
Zephoid, no, I'd bet there isn't.
Just as an aside, most of the peeling of original finishes is related to the factory use (no choice) of water borne primer. WBP has to be baked shortly after spraying to drive off the water in order to eliminate rust. The problem is that the color coat can't penetrate and bond to the super hard baked primer and soon fails. Subsequent paint jobs fail unless all the color coat of the original paint job are removed and the primer well sanded. Curiously enough, once the baked primer is sanded, subsequent coats of paint adhere just fine. Go figger. Jack
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Lol. I'm watching my bus as the paint slowly peels. Each day brings worse peeling. I notice its mainly where the sun hits the paint.
Is there any paint at tractor supply that's any good? I know to avoid Rustoleum now.
Sent from my Nexus 7
Just wait a bit longer, then you won't need to strip off any paint yourself - it will have auto-stripped. The same was happening with my roof paint - it was coming off in big pieces, so my fellow Crownaholics suggested I leave it for a few years until it had all gone. Some of it actually blew off when driving! I ended up hand-scraping it off with a small putty knife and a hot air gun to get down to bare metal, all 400 sq.ft. of it. No fun. I hate to say so, but it sounds like this is also in your future. Once you have bare metal, you can then recaulk every seam, sand to clean shiny metal, degrease, etch, prime, sand smooth, and only then can you apply the paint. Quite simply, you can't take shortcuts - there's no easy way to do it right.
Have fun . . .
John
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I can see why nobody repainted the bus before. I'm getting some big flakes.(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/22/cbbec78192a67fdd3e0138db971799cf.jpg)
And that despite washing then scuffing the yellow paint!
Sent from my Nexus 7
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... And that despite washing then scuffing the yellow paint!
Yeah, but if it's a bad batch of paint, it's not going to stick no matter how much you wash and scuff. And the way life is, if you don't get it washed and scuffed right, even the best paint won't stick to it. Did anybody put a really thick coat of silicone car wax on that bus sometime in the past????
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Yeah, but if it's a bad batch of paint, it's not going to stick no matter how much you wash and scuff. And the way life is, if you don't get it washed and scuffed right, even the best paint won't stick to it. Did anybody put a really thick coat of silicone car wax on that bus sometime in the past????
I suspect that the batch may have been bad given Rustoleum stating....
Thank you for providing the batch code a refund has been processed and you will receive a check within one to two weeks.
I reported the problem and supplied these photos and they asked the batch number then said they were sending a check.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/22/760875b4adaa313331e4c1e2d5e6a2e6.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/22/45244e1421d68a217114627bad8a8989.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/22/1a58dff411173f91da6cbaa03713df1e.jpg)
Sent from my Nexus 7
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Not necessarily an admission of a bad batch - Just providing good customer service.
Keeping track of batch numbers associated with customer complaints is an easy way to identify where problems are & where improvements can be made.
Prep work for a quality paint job usually takes more time, effort & money than applying the top coat.
Based on what I see, the problem wasn't a bad batch of Rustoleum, BUT instead was more of an incompatibility issue of the top coat & what you were painting over.
I'm guessing we'd be seeing the same results regardless of the paint you had used - an expected result of incomplete preparation.
( I base my opinion on my own personal experience gleaned from my mistakes, and there have been plenty. )
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Did you de-wax it before you sanded? If not you drove wax into the old paint.
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Based on what I see, the problem wasn't a bad batch of Rustoleum, BUT instead was more of an incompatibility issue of the top coat & what you were painting over.
Absolutely, that photo of the wrinkling runs is showing a solvent reaction, clear as day. Not the fault of either paint, just two paints brought together when they shouldn't have been.
Odd thing is though - there isn't any reaction evident in the photo where the paint can is sitting on the fender - must admit when I saw that one my first thought was whether school buses were painted with anti-graffiti paint.
Jeremy
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After you remove the failed paint you need to prime the bus before painting again,if you don't the next paint job will fail also! IMHO
Wes
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Poor prep work, not bad paint. I use a lot of it and never had a problem with it. Same color btw. You should have used a good primer first. You can't just "scuff it", that isn't going to cut it. And wash it down after thorough sanding with something like lacquer thinner. Wipe it off twice with plenty of clean rags. There are some primers that will apply to glossy surfaces also. Also, who knows how much silicone impregnated wax or sealers have been applied over the years. We used to use XIM over school bus repaint, especially because of galvanizing under factory paint. Don't know if it is still available.
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Poor prep work, not bad paint. I use a lot of it and never had a problem with it. Same color btw. You should have used a good primer first. You can't just "scuff it", that isn't going to cut it. And wash it down after thorough sanding with something like lacquer thinner. Wipe it off twice with plenty of clean rags. There are some primers that will apply to glossy surfaces also. Also, who knows how much silicone impregnated wax or sealers have been applied over the years. We used to use XIM over school bus repaint, especially because of galvanizing under factory paint. Don't know if it is still available.
Don't know. It has only done this in some areas. It's not all over.
Sent from my Nexus 7
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Don't know. It has only done this in some areas. It's not all over.
Sent from my Nexus 7
LOL.
Are you listening?
That is the thing about poor preparation and execution.
Some surface contaminants can be very difficult to remove.
Your pictures show that some areas seem to have been ok with minimum preparation. Other areas obviously needed lots more effort.
Not pointing any fingers (but if the shoe fits),
Continual denial won't improve the existing situation - but it will impede progress. And, it may result in less assistance in the future.
BTW, most people who know how to fix 'it' won't argue with a fool - it is more entertaining to just watch & laugh at them.
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I washed the bus, sanded the paint and then rinsed off the dust, allowed it to dry, painted with Rustolium and 10 months later... Rustoleum failure. I contacted Rustoleum and they asked the batch number and announced they were sending a refund. Looks like there are known bad batches of Rustoleum out there.
Looks like I'll have to repaint the entire bus after scrapping the Rustoleum junk off *sigh*
https://goo.gl/photos/mX2iMynW8TUaQmw5AA
(https://goo.gl/photos/mX2iMynW8TUaQmw5AA)
Consumer Reports ran a lengthy test on Rustoleum paints many years ago and determined that it is no better or worse than any other paint in controlling rust in spite of their advertising.
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Don't know. It has only done this in some areas. It's not all over.
Sent from my Nexus 7
$500.00's a gallon paint won't do the prep work....you gotsta do it your self :(
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LOL.
Are you listening?
That is the thing about poor preparation and execution.
Some surface contaminants can be very difficult to remove.
Your pictures show that some areas seem to have been ok with minimum preparation. Other areas obviously needed lots more effort.
Not pointing any fingers (but if the shoe fits),
Continual denial won't improve the existing situation - but it will impede progress. And, it may result in less assistance in the future.
BTW, most people who know how to fix 'it' won't argue with a fool - it is more entertaining to just watch & laugh at them.
Hmm....
Well, painting is way down on the list of things to do for the moment but... What would you do that would cost the absolute minimum?
At the moment I'm getting the bus livable. Plumbing, electrics etc.
I'm planning to rebuild a cable compartment some previous hillbilly owners installed. The plan is to build a cage of angle iron secured with 4 x 10-24 hex bolts at each joint with nuts and lock nuts. The bolts have a sheer strength of 1200lbs and the compartment plus two batteries will not weigh more than 200lbs. The bolts have extra large heads.
I did consider welding with Harbor Freight's cheap welder but decided now is not a good time to start trying to weld!
So, back to the paint. I'll let whatever flakes off, flake off then run over the surrounding areas with a wide brush. I think I probably need a barrier layer on top of whatever they painted the bus with. Any ideas on what they used as paint and what barrier layer I could use?
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I did consider welding with Harbor Freight's cheap welder but decided now is not a good time to start trying to weld!
FYI, the cheapo Harbor Fright 90 amp wire-feed welder is a POS. It has only a 10% duty cycle, i.e it's bloody useless, unless you like waiting 9 minutes after welding for one minute! Some HF stuff is OK, but much of it like that welder is worthless crap, so save your money and buy a real welder like a small Miller or Lincoln when the time comes.
Also FYI, I've done everything so far on and under the bus with good ol' bolts 'n nuts. I've hung all four tanks, 400 gallons total, using threaded rod and bolted support frames, and made pull-out battery trays for ten batteries and pull-out mounts for my generator and propane cylinders all without a single weld anywhere! It would have been quicker to weld some things, but better or more secure? Probably not. A well-designed bolted connection is just fine, especially where there could be flexing or movement. Welding is not always automatically better. Plus, the first time you change your mind and want to remake something you'll be thankful it's easy to deconstruct.
John
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A well-designed bolted connection is just fine, especially where there could be flexing or movement. Plus, the first time you change your mind and want to remake something you'll be thankful it's easy to deconstruct.
Wise words for a busnut from a busnut!
;)
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... Plus, the first time you change your mind and want to remake something you'll be thankful it's easy to deconstruct.
John
Change your mind and want to remake something?? Surely, none of us would ever need to do that! (Personally, I'm about 235% finished with m conversion, if you know what I mean.)
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Hmm....
Well, painting is way down on the list of things to do for the moment but... What would you do that would cost the absolute minimum?
What I DID -
I collected parts including a spare engine, transmission, & a bus or 3 . . . Then, I planned what the additional cost would be to finish the conversion, ---
I looked at what was for sale for comparison purposes.
Then I bought a used factory converted diesel pusher for less than a third of what I would have had in the bus.
BTW, industry standard is to use a safety factor of at least 10 on bolted connections.
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I find it quicker to weld than drilling holes for nuts and bolts. And if I have to undo it, an angle grinder is pretty fast.
JC
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What I DID -
I collected parts including a spare engine, transmission, & a bus or 3 . . . Then, I planned what the additional cost would be to finish the conversion, ---
I looked at what was for sale for comparison purposes.
Then I bought a used factory converted diesel pusher for less than a third of what I would have had in the bus.
BTW, industry standard is to use a safety factor of at least 10 on bolted connections.
16 bolts, each with a 1200lbs sheer strength should carry my under 200lbs compartment lol.
Sent from my Nexus 7
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I find it quicker to weld than drilling holes for nuts and bolts. And if I have to undo it, an angle grinder is pretty fast.
JC
Ideally, I would weld but since I've never weldedbefore, now is probably not a good time to start and I hear welding galvanized steel has its own issues
Sent from my Nexus 7
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That Rustoleum must have been deal junk. So far it has peeled off....
A cleaned, painted bus
Clean bare aluminum
The splashes that got onto the turn signal lenses have just peeled off
Painted aluminum - its peeling off that and I don't believe that was ever painted with cellulose
And it's also peeling off cured paintable sealant!
In the words of John Wayne... It don't stick to nothing!
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Ideally, I would weld but since I've never weldedbefore, now is probably not a good time to start and I hear welding galvanized steel has its own issues
Sent from my Nexus 7
Why not? Lack of painting experience didn't stop you from that endeavor. ;D
It appears you are either looking for an audience to hear your fussing, or just looking for someone to agree with you. ::)
Good luck with that.
I'm guessing you are not really interested in any advice or suggestions as to how to do anything properly. :o
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Be nice
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My apologies for coming across as rude.
Was just using a bit of sarcasm in an obviously poor attempt to point out how some were perceiving his posts.
BTW, I'm a HUGE fan of ANYONE who makes any kind of progress towards converting any vehicle to a home away from home.
Building it your way is the reason I got into this. When someone pointed out some things I didn't want to hear, I was able to use that information to create a better solution.
I still don't like to hear that any of my ideas need improvement . . . . But sometimes that is what is needed to get a satisfactory solution.
Sometimes the trees block the view of the forest. ;)
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Lol, that is true of all of us
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I've put repainting on the back burner for the moment. Working on my underbody compartment right now. Going to bolt this to the underbody C and I section ribs and rivet with 3/16 extra wide head steel rivets to the box section ribs.
https://flic.kr/p/ztdd8RR
https://flic.kr/p/Ar6sSg