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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Scott & Heather on November 26, 2015, 04:31:44 PM
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Our genset is quitting. 5th unit in that many years of full timing. Always bought cheap harbor freight or Coleman junk. Thing is, I don't really want to deal with a loud and complex diesel gennie. I'm about to pull the trigger on a Yamaha 6300. Runs at 54-62 dB and is fuel efficient. Honda equivalent basically. I know there has been banter on diesel vs gas gennies. Obviously diesel is more efficient and built well and long lasting, but I'm happy with the fuel sipping and quiet of the Yamaha specs. Will I be happy with this? Can I put it in the old condenser bay without it overheating? Easiest way to run exhaust out the side?
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Our genset is quitting. 5th unit in that many years of full timing. Always bought cheap harbor freight or Coleman junk. Thing is, I don't really want to deal with a loud and complex diesel gennie. I'm about to pull the trigger on a Yamaha 6300. Runs at 54-62 dB and is fuel efficient. Honda equivalent basically. I know there has been banter on diesel vs gas gennies. Obviously diesel is more efficient and built well and long lasting, but I'm happy with the fuel sipping and quiet of the Yamaha specs. Will I be happy with this? Can I put it in the old condenser bay without it overheating? Easiest way to run exhaust out the side?
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Scott - Ill sell you my 15k diesel when I see you in Feb 8)
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Way too much juice for me. No need to drink out of a fire hose :)
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... I'm about to pull the trigger on a Yamaha 6300. Runs at 54-62 dB and is fuel efficient. Honda equivalent basically. ...
No idea on installation or fuel consumption but I'd think hard. How many watts were you generally pulling from the "Harbor freight or Coleman" junk gennies? The "plastic shell" (Yamaha or Honda) generators are very nice in a lot of ways, but I get the idea that they're happiest when they're not run too hard -- they'll give plenty of power but it seem hard on them to be run at/near full power often and for long periods. I'm thinking of getting a small Honda or Yamaha as a "backup" but I am sure that they won't pull the kind of power I'm used to using (coffee maker, microwave, water heater, etc.). That's what I have the Onan 10K for.
If you need "lightweight power" and are OK with carrying a separate container of gasoline, etc., it might work for you but I'd be concerned about depending on one for "full house" power; then again, full house power is a different thing for different people.
Just my kinda rambling thoughts but HTH. BH
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I went to the dark side ..... I installed a honda 7000 fuel injected gas gene and it is awesome . most of the time it is running at 2500 - 2600 rpm with 1 a/c unit . very quiet and very good on fuel . at idle it runs at 2400 rpm
I put it in the old condenser bay .
send me a pm and I will get you some pics on how I installed it
dave
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Ummmm.... i thought we all used a small Honda generator when we didn't want to run the diesel generator. Ive been doing this for years. My Honda EU1000 will will run almost forever on a tank of gas, keeping the house batteries topped off, and is literally silent from inside the bus. If I don't need AC, I can usually get away with using just the Honda when we're boondocking.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-JaFlATMBJoE/VlhguqaLK1I/AAAAAAAAC1c/QlYT2Bdl13A/w756-h567-no/IMG_2579.JPG)
We're in Vermont for Thanksgiving and the little Honda is all we've needed so far. I can even run one block heater on it to warm up the engine!.
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I had one of the Yamaha 6300 inverter generators for a couple of months. I got a real good deal on Craigslist and was able to sell it for what I paid later. I wanted it as a backup to the bus generator one year when I was running a food booth at a desert event.
It worked great when I tested it at home. It is definitely louder than the small Honda generators, but not nearly as bad as the cheap open frame construction generators. I seem to recall I had to turn ECO mode off to start all three rooftops in my bus.
Diesel generators can be real quiet, but they are not cheap. My diesel is surprising quiet. I often can't hear it at events over the people running the open frame construction generators.
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I've had a Yamaha 3000 watt inverter generator for five years, and it's been great. Electric start, very quiet. I carry it in the condenser bay, but I've been chicken to run it in there, the muffler throws off a lot of heat. I just open the door and swing it sideways so the arse end sticks out. FWIW and all that.
Brian
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One year at the Arcadia rally the coach next to me had a Honda I think about 6 KW gas in the bay of his MCI. The gas fumes were so bad we had to move and I thought he was going to blow his coach up when he refueled and spilled gas on the hot unit.
If you have been through 4 cheep units and fixing to buy the fifth you are spending more than I did on my last coach with a 8KW diesel that is still running after 20 years. Five of those years we were full time in the coach and put oner 200,000 miles on it . I don't know how much time the generator had on it, but it was a lot
Jack
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Good info. What's a good recommended 7kw diesel unit? I know Onan has the name but I truly don't want a ton of complexity nor maintenance...
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I like that setup one lapper. I'll be able to slip up, grab it and run, well maybe when I was younger. You're right,they are really quiet. I have a Honda EU3000is that I have for around the house if needed and it is almost as quiet.
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If you have been through 4 cheep units and fixing to buy the fifth you are spending more than I did on my last coach with a 8KW diesel that is still running after 20 years. Five of those years we were full time in the coach and put oner 200,000 miles on it . I don't know how much time the generator had on it, but it was a lot
Jack
What he said. Watch your local Craigslist and be patient. I just checked Kijiji and this came up right next door to me. Its not as big as you wanted but I wish I hadn't checked because now I'm trying to think what I could do with it. 4k is more than enough to run a single roof air.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-other/regina/4000-watt-generator/1118146413?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true (http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-other/regina/4000-watt-generator/1118146413?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true)
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Good info. What's a good recommended 7kw diesel unit? I know Onan has the name but I truly don't want a ton of complexity nor maintenance...
A lot of people have said the newer Onan stuff is not that great. When the electronics break it costs a lot to fix.
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I like that setup one lapper. I'll be able to slip up, grab it and run, well maybe when I was younger. ...
Down my way, they sneak up with a lawn mower at idle and slowly bring it up until it's making about as much sound as your gen -- then the gennie is gone. Tomorrow AM it's dead batteries and a $20 lawn mower next to your power cord.
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Down my way, they sneak up with a lawn mower at idle and slowly bring it up until it's making about as much sound as your gen -- then the gennie is gone. Tomorrow AM it's dead batteries and a $20 lawn mower next to your power cord.
Well, so far I've been lucky in that you guys haven't swiped my generator! Actually, the only thing I've had stolen while boondocking was a ulu knife from my grill one night.
Truth be told, I can't really recommend a generator brand. I've been helping a driver with a new Powertech generator that's had several issues. First one was at 1.7 hours. Bad electric fuel pump, bad solenoid, loose fuel lines sucking air, broken flex pipe. It has 99 hours on it now and I've worked on it four times. I should send Jeff at Powertech a Christmas card.
The Onans are expensive to buy, and expensive to fix. But, there are many I see that have over 10k hours and nothing but maintenance (according to the owner operators). They are also the most common generator for the owner operators. Also very quiet, some are extremely quiet.
I have a non-electronic Westerbeke that runs great. It's not the most efficient, it's not the quietest, it certainly isn't the cheapest to buy parts for, but it's been reliable.
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I haven't looked, but would think there should be some on the used market. Lots of motorhomes that were taken off the road that had good generators.
Jack
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I have a Yamaha ISEB 3000 inverter model that I loved. I used it for 11 years and put many hundreds maybe thousands of hours on it. Then it quit making power one day and I could not find any one even at the so-called service centers that knew how to fix it. I was told the same thing by 4 service centers. "We work on Hondas all the time and can fix them but we have never had a Yamaha in here broken even though we are a service center" I do not know if this is because there are a lot more Hondas or because they give more trouble. I bought a service cd and trouble shot it my self but have not fixed it due to the parts cost. I am keeping my eye open for one with a bad motor.
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Well, after much deliberation, I purchased two of these today along with parallel cables. Don't have the time to explain fully right now, but sometime when we are more settled (January) I'll be obtaining or making a true 50aml parallel kit/receptacle for these things. For now I am happy to have a nice couple of gennies:
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/8a021fe29676409f4d30d5b4e8ff8a2c.jpg)
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... I'll be obtaining or making a true 50aml parallel kit/receptacle for these things. ...
Nice looking unit, Scott. Does the true 50 amp parallel kit give you 240V or just increase the amps at 120V?
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I am just curious how you balance the load on the 2 generator sets feeding 1 entrance lead,I know how it is done on the bigger diesel powered sets but not on the little Honda's you have a answer Dave M
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The little gasoline Honda generators have a special plug that links them together and since they are inverters that convert DC to AC it easily matches the voltage and hertz to,double their amp and watt output on a single line ... If it was just a generator the engine rpm would cause problems with that but that's how they do it Clifford. They are slightly different models available too as one is a slave and one is the source. Not sure if you have to have the slave though but it's usually a slightly different price when I've looked at them.
For the record Dick - "somewhereusa" had that Yamaha inverter generator catch on fire while he was using it. Internal fuel leak under the casing caused it.
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Those Honda 3000 inverter gensets are truly excellent quality. If you keep the oil changed frequently, you should get near 5,000 hours out of them
I had the Onan Emerald III 6.5 commercial (had a PTO [power take off] shaft out the back of the alternator) that ran at 1,800rpm continuous that I used on my truck. My first one went 12,000 hours before quitting. Rather than overhaul it, I just bought another one. I believe those units are still available for commercial use since the phone company and others use those generators to power a hydraulic pump for their man lifts. I used the PTO to power an air conditioning compressor for the A/C in my sleeper when parked. Good Luck, TomC
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The little gasoline Honda generators have a special plug that links them together and since they are inverters that convert DC to AC it easily matches the voltage and hertz to,double their amp and watt output on a single line ... If it was just a generator the engine rpm would cause problems with that but that's how they do it Clifford. They are slightly different models available too as one is a slave and one is the source. Not sure if you have to have the slave though but it's usually a slightly different price when I've looked at them.
For the record Dick - "somewhereusa" had that Yamaha inverter generator catch on fire while he was using it. Internal fuel leak under the casing caused it.
I know what the link cable is it's a diode cable so to me there has to be something else inside each generator,I am guessing that is why they want the 2 the same model when using the cable.
I think I would split the generators into 2 different circuits 1 for ea generator and forget the link.
You see a lot of generator fires with the tank mounted on top of the engines on all brands except on the cheap ones they don't last long enough to rust.This crapo gasoline we buy now eats the tanks up.I have a 11hp Honda on my power washer and 9 hp on a compressor both tanks are rusted through in 6 years and Honda wants a fortune for the tanks
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wouldn't you be better off replacing the tanks with outboard motor tanks...
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So yes, there is a parallel cable kit to link them together as was already mentioned. It does not give me 240v but rather 5600 watts of continuous 120v burstable to 6000 watts for 10 seconds for starting loads. These things are insanely quiet. As in, I would happily violate no gen hours in a state park if I had to because you literally cannot hear them run in Eco mode. They don't both fit quite right in my condenser bay so I'm working on mounting them on a hitch platform that locks. Hopefully will be on the road by this evening testing out the whole shebang
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I looked into this once, this is what I got. The honda gennies look for external AC on startup and synch to it, with two generators you kind of have to start one first so the second one synch's to the first one. People have run them in parallel with other types of generators. The cable is nothing more than a pure parallel cable, nothing else inside it, jigged up so it is safe (you don't have a cable with two live male connectors). They have a "companion" model 2000 watt generator that has a built in 30 amp plug so you don't need an external adaptor. In the straight Honda world they only want you to parallel the same size generator so they load share 50-50 just naturally. I don't know that happens if you load share a smaller generator with a larger one and the load exceeds twice the rating of the small one. It might pop a breaker.
Brian
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wouldn't you be better off replacing the tanks with outboard motor tanks...
Or convert them to propane?
I converted my little emergencies-only generator - it now runs quieter than before, doesn't make an exhaust stink, and starts reliably on the third pull every time. Now I don't worry about gasoline going bad and gumming up the carburetor, or gasoline lines or the fuel tank leaking. Well worth it.
John
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Our generator is a Honda 6.5KW running on propane, built in, (came with the bus). with remote start upstairs. Sure is sweet. Yea a diesel would be better, but this came with the bus, and will do quite well for a long time. It is reasonably quiet, clean, doesn't burn too much propane, nothing wrong with it.
JC
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I went with the honda eu7000is gas fuel injected gene and could not be happier . on full load it runs a 59 db - 61 db that is quieter then riding inside a mercedes benz at 65 mph with all fans , radio off . with the eco mode on it is as quiet as 52 db . I have ordered a key fob style remote start for it so I can start and stop it from inside the coach .
and it fit in my condenser bay on a roll out dwr with a exhaust that goes to the outside and a fan that removes the convection heat from the open bay .
http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is (http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is)
dave
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I went with the honda eu7000is gas fuel injected gene and could not be happier . on full load it runs a 59 db - 61 db that is quieter then riding inside a mercedes benz at 65 mph with all fans , radio off . with the eco mode on it is as quiet as 52 db . I have ordered a key fob style remote start for it so I can start and stop it from inside the coach .
and it fit in my condenser bay on a roll out dwr with a exhaust that goes to the outside and a fan that removes the convection heat from the open bay .
http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is (http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is) dave
Yeah, that looks like a nice setup, Dave. Is there a way to do "auto start" when batteries drop to a specified voltage? Is it air cooled, if so, what's the warmest temp outside that you've run it? What fan did you use and how did you calculate its size? How is fuel usage - a full tank in 6 hours would seem like a lot of getting up in the middle of the night to fill the gas tank -- plus carrying a lot of gas/jerry cans. It sure is nice that it can supply 240V though. less than 300 pounds for a 5000W unit is great, and that noise level can't be beat. I'm assuming that you aren't using the wheel kit -- what did you do for isolating the feet? I see a couple of people selling them on Amazon for $3999 but $269 for a fob remote kinda pinches!
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You can buy the remote start panel for 100 bucks or make your own and save your self 169 bucks.All this talk about generators may bring Sean Welsh out of retirement !!!!
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I seriously considered the 7000. But here's what I considered: by using two 3000's in parallel, I can control how much power I need and how much fuel I use. If I'm leaving the bus in a parking lot for the weekend (this coming weekend case-in-point) I can switch one off and leave one in Eco mode to run the fridge and some lights. It will literally run 20 hours on a little more than 3 gallons of fuel this way. If I need 5600 watts which is 100 watts more than the 7000 is rated for continuously, then I have 5600 watts just by turning them both on. Can run the dryer water heater, microwave, water pump fridge etc. easily starts and runs two roof a/c's and they are even quieter than the 7000 down in the 49 dB range in Eco mode. Plus, if one dies or needs service, I have a backuo
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I seriously considered the 7000. But here's what I considered: by using two 3000's in parallel, I can control how much power I need and how much fuel I use. If I'm leaving the bus in a parking lot for the weekend (this coming weekend case-in-point) I can switch one off and leave one in Eco mode to run the fridge and some lights. It will literally run 20 hours on a little more than 3 gallons of fuel this way. If I need 5600 watts which is 100 watts more than the 7000 is rated for continuously, then I have 5600 watts just by turning them both on. Can run the dryer water heater, microwave, water pump fridge etc. easily starts and runs two roof a/c's and they are even quieter than the 7000 down in the 49 dB range in Eco mode. Plus, if one dies or needs service, I have a backuo
There's lots of logic in the utility of those decisions.
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I tried the 2 @ 3000 watt gene's 1 in the condenser bay and 1 in the old crapper tank door near the engine . you could run the one you wanted depending if you were in the rear bedroom or the front living room . it did work good but with my new set up I have more power then I need and it is much easier to use and so far the fuel mileage is less because of the larger size it actually runs quieter with lower rpm . plus in the manual it is rated for 6000 watts normal full load to compete with the yamaha 6500
this is just the way I did it and yours does sound good
in order to fit it on the dwr rollers I had to strip off all the wheels , fold down handles and used a rubber pad under the HD dwr slides .
dave
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Honda made a nice diesel unit years back rated at 10,000 watts what ever happened to them ?
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Dave, now you're making me wonder lol. Well, I guess we have what we have now :) if they ever die then I can revisit a single unit. Does the C3 have a larger condenser bay? Cause these two won't fit in my 9.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/03/26f3aedd1c1c5850827d43b480932fcf.jpg)
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I was down at Honda Power shop today those have a good warranty like 3 years,Butch said just keep the fuel clean the carburetor is about the only problem they have. A gummed up carburetor is not covered by warranty and a new carburetor cost little over 100 bucks plus labor, they don't try to clean it they just replace it.Butch said they will run for 2000 hrs he sales a lot of those
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I was down at Honda Power shop today those have a good warranty like 3 years,Butch said just keep the fuel clean the carburetor is about the only problem they have. A gummed up carburetor is not covered by warranty and a new carburetor cost little over 100 bucks plus labor, they don't try to clean it they just replace it.Butch said they will run for 2000 hrs he sales a lot of those
Can y'all get ethanol-free gasoline at boat places out there, Clifford? Makes a big difference in boats, lawn mowers, etc.
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I only run premium fuel and have not had a problem
my honda dealer sells stihl chain saws as well and on a new saw if you use any other fuel in it other then premium fuel in it it will void the warranty .
so now on all my small engines I only run premium fuel in them
dave
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My brother works for Stihl corporate and says all Stihl products 89 octane or better.
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in CANADA this is what my dealer has on my sales bill and a large sign on the wall premium fuel only of warranty will be void
this might only be for their dealer ship but I have 2 saws , 1 weed wacker so the little extra for the fuel is no big deal
dave
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Just buy 'pure' gas, even an app to find it in all locations
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Truth be told, I can't really recommend a generator brand. I've been helping a driver with a new Powertech generator that's had several issues. First one was at 1.7 hours. Bad electric fuel pump, bad solenoid, loose fuel lines sucking air, broken flex pipe. It has 99 hours on it now and I've worked on it four times. I should send Jeff at Powertech a Christmas card.
Mark -
My PowerTech 8kW unit is still being cantankerous. Has 124 hours on it now, still only runs for about 10 minutes with a load on it before shutting down, but it will idle forever. Wish it hadn't been raining when we had dinner last year. . .
RJ
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Huggys 10k power-tec has been running for over 12 years. gets it oil changed every few years with fuel and oil filters.
never any problem yet and it is in a home built quite box with a external fan driven by ac from the gen.
it spent many weekends rning at dirt bike races all weekend. Usually has many plugs running everywhere io good neighbors who have loud gen sets.
and want to sleep also. I have been known to take a couple brigs engines mounted on tin tubs and set around the site to let them know what it sounds like.
uncle ned
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Ned,
I also run my genset on the MC7 non stop while every weekend we went to dirt track races, sprint cars like the outlaws run. Point is the 12 kw diesel genset ran thousands of hours no issues ever and was quiet with vertical exhaust to roof.
The good old times.
Dave M
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I bought my 10kw Powertech in 1994. It has a mechanical 4 cylinder Kubota, and a large diameter brushless alternator. Have about 1200 hrs on it with zero problems.
My truck is using a 3 cylinder Kubota mechanical with 12kw head that is only 36" long-custom made by Dick Wright of Wrico International for me, since the 4 cylinder was too long. Good Luck, TomC
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I work on more of the PowerTech 10 kw than any other generator you can bank on the head bearing seizing at around 2000 hrs
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I have a 6500 generac and it's good until you start running 2 ac units and living in the bus. Mine is in the ac compartment and I put a radiator fan the side wall and there was already a hole with mesh to the bottom to cool it or it starts getting to hot. It's also a gas hog at lite load it still burns a gal per hou. It's quiet though. Can bearly hear it in the back.
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Been running these poor Hondas non stop since we bought them a week ago :) they are simply amazing little beasts. I still can't get over how quiet they are. I've been in Gatlinburg at the Hilton park Vista for the weekend for a convention I'm singing for so Heather and I left the bus in the parking lot with just one genset running in Eco mode. They claim 20 hours....I'm getting like 24. It's crazy. Just running the fridge and some lights. 24 hours on 3.1 gallons of fuel. Simply joyous to use these. Electric key start. Smooth and quiet. Why didn't I do this years ago. Inverter power is so clean. Lights don't flicker anymore, water pump runs and sounds proper now, microwave doesn't sound weird or struggle now. 5600 watts of combined usable continuous power is pelt by for us. Plenty. So so happy finally to have a decent genset setup. Now to install a 100 gallon aux gas tank :)
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If you ever come across a EV Honda in your travels Scott buy it those are good generators the one in JC's parked next to him you could hardly hear it run.I don't know why Honda stop making those I know parts are costly I have a EV 4010 I've had for a few years that needs a radiator and Honda wants almost 500 bucks for it
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Mine is a EV 6000 I think. It is on propane, which can be hard to find on the road (see my other post about that). But other than that, it runs really nice and is quiet.
JC
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All F/J should have propane JC
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It is a EV6010, which is gasoline, but evidently has been converted to propane.
JC
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The came both ways JC the propane EV was the most popular with RV's
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My manual for it is the gasoline model. The genny is propane. It works really good though. Just finding propane filling stations on the road will require more planning...
JC
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http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/crane66/media/f91ea536-0ee9-4a24-91ac-4c516194409a_zpsyxhi7m7e.jpg.html (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/crane66/media/f91ea536-0ee9-4a24-91ac-4c516194409a_zpsyxhi7m7e.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a484/crane66/bus%20porn%20003_zpsjkmya7cu.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/crane66/media/bus%20porn%20003_zpsjkmya7cu.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a484/crane66/bus%20porn%20002_zpstk7eohpj.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/crane66/media/bus%20porn%20002_zpstk7eohpj.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a484/crane66/f91ea536-0ee9-4a24-91ac-4c516194409a_zpsyxhi7m7e.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/crane66/media/f91ea536-0ee9-4a24-91ac-4c516194409a_zpsyxhi7m7e.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a484/crane66/bus%20porn%20004_zps4jbqiadi.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/crane66/media/bus%20porn%20004_zps4jbqiadi.jpg.html)
this is how I did mine
dave
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B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L!
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Nice! Sooo nice. Thanks for the ideas. Where'd you get the drawer slide?
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Explain the exhaust a little for me. Are those silicone connectors that you can remove to slide it out? They don't melt?
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Explain the exhaust a little for me. Are those silicone connectors that you can remove to slide it out? They don't melt?
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I am going to guess here but I think those are bent steel pipes with a High Temp turbo charger connection...think high HP drift/race cars ???
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KISS
the 1 1/4" 90 deg. , 45 deg. exhaust pipe from auto parts store and silicone heater hose.
heater hose is 1/4 " past the pipe and is friction fit to the gene so it pulls out with out any adjusting or removal of any thing . I had this set up on my old gene and it worked great for years . there is a exhaust fan above the gene that turns on when the gene starts that removes any convection heat that is in the bay .
easy to fill up and really quiet !
this is the rollers I used lots of $..... $ 125.00 but they are rated for this
http://www.richelieu.com/ca/en/category/hinges-slides-and-opening-systems/slides/accuride/heavy-duty-ball-bearing-slides/series-9301-9308-drawer-slide/series-9301-heavy-duty-full-extension-slide-add-packaging-info/1008566/sku-T93012G22 (http://www.richelieu.com/ca/en/category/hinges-slides-and-opening-systems/slides/accuride/heavy-duty-ball-bearing-slides/series-9301-9308-drawer-slide/series-9301-heavy-duty-full-extension-slide-add-packaging-info/1008566/sku-T93012G22)
dave
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forgot to say the hardest part of the job was using a 2" diamond hole saw through the s. steel side of the coach . 2.5 HOURS and 4 drills as even with gloves they were to hot to use .
dave
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Done it before. Lots and lots of cutting oil, patience, and preferably a cool day....after a good nights sleep....and a good meal.....and a massage.....and some yoga.
Lol. Thanks for the tips. Going to work on this since I'm tired of my gennies sitting out on the hitch platform. I do have to ask this, every time I hit a good bump in the road the gennies shut off????? Even when fuel tanks are full to the top. So I know it it's not fuel sloshing. Could it be the oil sloshing and tripping the low oil shutdown? If so, how do I remedy this?
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My 1000eu will sometimes shut off if I move it too quickly when it's running. I always assumed it was the oil level sensor. It doesn't take much for it to shut down on low oil, even putting it on a slight slope will do it.
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So is there harm in adding a little extra oil to help minimize this?
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I've been doing that for years, too. There is a point where you can add too much oil and things can go wrong. The 1000eu takes about 1/3 qt of oil, but I usually add 1/2 qt when I do an oil change. It still shuts off if I move it quickly, though. The 1000 is splash lubricated, I don't know if the 3000 is pressure or splash, meaning the 1000 has an oil level sensor, versus an oil pressure sensor.
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I work on more of the PowerTech 10 kw than any other generator you can bank on the head bearing seizing at around 2000 hrs
This reminds me I need to change the bearing on my Powertech 8KW. I just rolled over 1,000 hours this year. I ordered the bearing a few years ago when I was ordering some other parts. The stupid thing is you have to lift up the generator head about an inch to replace the bearing.
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dave what cfm is your exhaust fan? i am building the gennie slide this next week.
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Hopefully since I have the big Marathon alternator head on my 10kw Powertech, the end bearing won't need to be replaced. The end bearing is the only thing on the generator I can't get too-which means pulling the whole thing out. Good Luck, TomC
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this is the fan I had laying around so I used it . when parked it is lots but I have not tried it much when driving ( when its hot out )but then again I think there will be lots of air movement when driving as the door is a vent . I did fill in above the gene ceiling with foam , tin foil bubble rap so any heat was not trapped inside and had to exhaust through the vent door
http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/6-in-duct-booster-fan/A-p0772871e (http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/6-in-duct-booster-fan/A-p0772871e)
dave
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Thanks Dave. Just what I was looking for
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Ahhh Princess Auto, a place of holy pilgrimage. We have the home store here in Winnipeg and it is always a stop when in town.
Ryan.
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Scott,
I am real curious as to how cool you can keep those generators in a bay while rolling down the road.
I know I had a hard time keeping my outside unit cool on the Mini-Split and that was with a hole cut in the floor and a hole in the bay door and a 20" fan blowing out the exhaust through the floor.
I wonder if you can mount heat sinks to them :)
Make sure you think about airflow and forcing air in and out before you start cutting up :)
-Sean
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Scott,
I am real curious as to how cool you can keep those generators in a bay while rolling down the road.
I know I had a hard time keeping my outside unit cool on the Mini-Split and that was with a hole cut in the floor and a hole in the bay door and a 20" fan blowing out the exhaust through the floor. ...
Another thing to remember that that a plain blade fan will move static air well but if you have any condition that places backpressure or vacuum on the fan, the efficiency of those drops off quickly. If you need to move air when you either need to make suction to pull air out or to make pressure to push the air, you need a "squirrel cage"/centrifugal fan. That's another part of the equation, FWIW.
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the original design was a pusher fan pulling air through the condenser down through the floor . I did look at doing that with the gene and when driving the negative pressure on the side of the coach would help move air past the gene and out under the coach , but when parked it would be a lot harder to pull hot air down to exhaust out under the coach .
+ the extra noise of the pusher fan I did not want when parked . I have not had enough of a test when driving when it is hot out to see how well it works .
on my split unit a/c the air to cool it comes through the old a/c bay then through the a/c then it is ducted out through a large pusher fan through the floor . I control the speed of the fan with a dimmer switch so when driving I can turn up the speed of the fan , then when parked I slow it down so it is a lot less noisy . this has worked very well for years
so if Scott could do the testing on this I would appreciate the result . just kidding .
as there is a shut down system on the honda,s and as of yet I have had no problems
I do have a good pusher squirrel cage fan that I could swap out if needed but it is not as quiet
the design of the honda gene,s are excellent for keeping them cool , quiet
dave
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I have had a pair of eu2000's since they came out. Finally replaced one with a 30a companion two years ago and did away with the old jumper box. Have never had any problems. Hooked up with a B.E.R.G. system and a 3psi fuel pump to factory gas tank. Cooled by 6x12 slot in floor with a piece of 2 1/2" angle mounted aimed down behind the opening. With a 16" fan blowing out the side. Mounted in old ac compartment. rdw
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Shanksy, you bring up a good point, but let me clarify my thoughts on my install (which incidentally I am doing this week and I'll post pictures).
1. As was mentioned, the Honda inverter EU series gennies are known for being designed to stay cool and quiet in a multitude of conditions. That's a plus.
2. My gensets are not being installed in a luggage bay but rather my condenser bay near the front of the bus. Here's a photo from the Internet showing the mesh screen door. I already have a HUGE hole in the floor of one end of this bay for airflow so that shouldn't be an issue.
3. I am wondering as is Dave, if it's best to pull air from the bottom hole out the side screen or install some sort of low profile scoop on the side screen and push air down over the gennies and through the floor hole. This would work while driving as was already mentioned, but again, what about when stationary....at that point. You're fighting the law of thermodynamics. I already have a pair of 24 volt Baldor fans from the OTR HVAC system that I wanted to use for this. Only issue is fitting them to the screen door and still allowing space for the door to close.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/21/81ea1b0c4b42d61339156415db77f94c.jpg)
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Going to watch this thread as I will be making my choice in the New Year as to type/size to install.
Isn't the air pressure a lot lower under the bus than beside it? If so it would probably be better (for travel) to direct the air flow through the side screen and exit out the bottom? On the other hand while stationary it would probably be better in the other direction instead of dumping fumes/heat under the bus pass everything out the side. Decisions decisions.
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Looking at the picture, the front fender flap is going to cause at least a small drop in air pressure over the screened area. With a vent in the floor and a small air dam at it's rear edge coupled with the natural rise of hot air, one could retain the good looks of the side of the bus and still have good cooling.
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The stock air conditioning setup drew air in through the mesh door, through the condenser and down out the hole in the floor, pushed by a 2 hp fan. That is the natural air flow, air pressure is higher than ambient on the side wall of the bus that far back from the front, and lower than ambient under the bus, when driving. I cut the big fan mount out and put my batteries in where the fan was. I never run my generator (Yamaha 3000 SEB) in the compartment when driving.
Brian
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looking at your picture (and reading the comments) my generator (tho bigger and different) I do use going down the road...
Air in, is as noted in the photo, and exhausted thru the floor to the road. The difference (that works well for me) is that the intake cooing air is limited to the top half of the "baggage door" and the bottom curb "edge", lower half is sided and not open as is seen in your picture.
Just a thought to consider, you might experiment, as I believe the velocity of the "drawn" air is greater this way...
Clear as mud ?
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Lol. Yep I think I get it. At the end of the day if my intake fan on the mesh and the exit fan on the floor of the bay are both high CFM fans and the screen is ducted properly, it will do the trick even when stationary
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Back in 99 when we first built this bus we were having a real over heating problem, so we tufted the drives side then filmed it at steady 45 ,55, 65,and 70. Why we have a 2 1/2" airdam in front of the radiator opening, and exhaust the gen straight out. (my front airdam is 3"off pavement at ride height.) rdw
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Hi Scott & Brian, I just finished the install of an older Wrico 13K genset, had my old generator in the area pictured,, ( it was aircooled,) removed the heater core and evaporator from in front of the 1st bay, center, Van and Gary cut a hole there and put a 1hp squirrel cage fan and enclosure, removed the radiator from genset, whe re it was mounted on the motor and turned it perpendicular on the wall seperating the old condenser and evaporator areas, where the fan and new hole were cut. And blocked the screened door where the original over the road AC condensor and fans were, I'm going to add sound deadening material there, to eleminate even more noise. This sounds like what you did Brian. Air flows upward from the road, from the original large hole under the genset, is pulled thru the radiator, and shoots down the middle of the bus to the road. I moved the house batteries to the remaining space next to the fan enclosure. .lvmci...
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So, the day isn't going quote as planned. So far I've spent the entire day just having a custom exhaust pipe made for the twins at my uncles shop. Once this is complete, I'll start working on the slide tray. Based on some loose measuring, I think some condenser bay hacking is in ordet
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Ok so I have the exhaust done for the most part. Did some work in the rain crummy Michigan weather. Tomorrow will work on the slide tray. Here are some pics of how I did the exhaust on my twins:
Cut galvanized 1" pipe
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/23/234eab3008a5df17b964092fc8df4377.jpg)
Removed exhaust pipe in prep for welding extension
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/23/cbb1d1179223ab61d4a79d72e0a0b38e.jpg)
Ground off the cap that Honda tacks on to the end of the pipe
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/23/7e7550b1c1db4a83f9e08c071325dfed.jpg)
More sanding to remove burrs etc
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/23/e9ba3c6c36735306aea97a3a18c3758a.jpg)
Bent the pipe into an offset
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/23/a5a762f724713a61c3a546d5e9723a2d.jpg)
Test fitting exhaust extension before welding
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/23/bd7b553d54bb14da18de6fe957d8f490.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/23/3fca728569fc1b8e9a9df5ce7acfd049.jpg)
Test fitting small patch we made for hole in Honda OEM exhaust pipe
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/23/e3b9f6101463d20497efbc3ad14e74c4.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/23/5fe591803e5a512c0e91678a49ffe0c4.jpg)
My uncle tig welding everything together
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/23/b1be6c1f65e8aebc2dcf7a3ac75e600f.jpg)
Installed with insulation back in
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/24/dfd0b4a2677d4771c1510e38e8f5507d.jpg)
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Someone on another forum built one of these (or like it) into a conversion, and mentioned that removing the stock muffler removed a major point source of heat, and that makes a lot of sense. It would be neat to try that, with a remote muffler and a wrapped or coated exhaust pipe.
Brian
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I'm sure others have relocated mufflers from their genny boxes as did I. I also removed the computer module from the genny box which sort of made the whole genny a "plug and play" affair. I used a small constant run pusher fan and a small, temp controlled puller fan for cooling. As a safe guard I added two, 190 degree thermostatic kill switches on the oil sump--they have yet to come into play. Jack
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Brian, now you tell
Me :-( would have been an amazing idea. Oh poo.
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Olrunt is the guy I was "quoting", didn't know if he was on this board, didn't want to "out " him, check his blog on his schoolbus conversion - epic wonderfulness.
Brian
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Jack, send me a link to your blog .)
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On my 12 I was thinking of removing the "mesh" door hinge and installing dzus fastners on the front edge to mount the whole door onto a slide tray that carries the generator(s). That way I can mount the exhaust through the mesh and not worry about any flex connectors (for the exhaust at least).
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I've done that but with aluminum 'hood pins instead of dzus fasteners, that way you can padlock it shut. Dzus fasteners do fail. rdw
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Frankly, I kind of detest my DZUS fasteners lol. Got the exhausts all mounted and put the gennies back together. Hopefully if it's dry tomorrow I'll start the slide tray :)
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Hey Scott. Sorry to be so slow responding. There isn't a lot that got posted on the genny installation on the attached blog, but it will give you an idea. Just before I moved to the current forum, the "Skoolie" forum had a huge computer blow up of some kind and most of my posts there were lost. See if the following link works automatically and if not, just type it in. It will take you to page 3 and the genny stuff such as it is.
http://nomadicista.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2658&start=30 (http://nomadicista.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2658&start=30)
I do have a good number of pics of the genny install that weren't posted--I'll be glad to send them to you if you think it might be any help. Jack
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Thanks jack! Saw some amazing photos of your bus conversion! You are building from scratch! Impressive stuff :) ok so today was build the slides and wooden platform day while it snowed and sleeted and freezing rained on us. I honestly think the weather hates me cause every time I have to work on the outside of the bus, it's nasty out. Here are pics of us prepping the angle iron for mating with he rails and setting up the 2x4 lifts to raise it up slightly above the bay floor. Tomorrow I'll be on the road all day so nothing will get done. Hopefully Wednesday we will finish the platform and get it installed.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/47f07a4bffe1cb6860fff894b98ef68b.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/8000aa6775d47e9f5e111062661ca68c.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/017471c6964e6585ad010d583fd4f4cd.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/9cfd6f7ac552253ecd51c1cf19e80a73.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/ffc3dcab46c868ecfa0e1603d5237672.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/8230acd00df6c162171a236673851887.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/fc76032e0c6cdcfa5751991b73bca238.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/cd691a55a8244fe4a68f1e33baf48413.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/75dbfccb48c734ff75647f13fb7fcf92.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/6f64e81faf8a296ae7ae93719ad60008.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/34baa0e5d86108202634b4446b411d45.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/ed58ef7be5f5e31291c0098433f477c0.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/bed4587890bd4bde7a69ccab32c1153a.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/28/8c1418926f973dfdc7c39896d792350b.jpg)
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It looks very functional Scott. Burrrrrrrrr. Cold is one thing but freezing sleet will take the stuffin' out of a guy real quick! Today I found myself sitting in my bus with the electric heater going and reading a book and it is only in the 30's and dry--what a wuss I am :D. Jack
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Lol. Michiganders really just consider a sleety snowy day as just another day. We never get too worked up about cold and snow. I always remark to Heather that the roads sometimes can be insanely slick depending on the temperature (hovering right around freezing creates almost a greasy snow) yet people drive really good in it here. you would think with six inches of snow on the interstate more cars would be in the ditch but that's never the case. You even get used to the different types of snow based on temp and humidity. Super cold fluffy snow that squeaky when you walk on it is some of the best snow cause it's actually got some grip. I've driven 60 mph on snow like that and I'm not an exception. Snow that's been salted is unpredictable and frankly I'd prefer if they didn't salt it but just sanded and plowed. Snow in temps hovering. Between 29 and 32 is downright greasy. I've swapped ends more than my share of times on this kind of snow. The best fun is slushy snow that you make deep tire tracks in that freezes overnight and the next morning it's like driving over train tracks all the way to work. No wonder Michigan cars suffer short life spans. Anyway, Heather and I are driving across the state in our truck for some dental appointments while our parents babysit and coming back to the bus late tonight. Hopefully if it's just snowing tomorrow and not raining we will install the gen slide out tray in the bus and set the gennies on it and strap them down and test the whole shebang.
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Ok. So the drawer slides they sent me were the wrong ones and they failed immediately. Drove 7 hours round trip to McMaster Carr disti center in Cleveland and picked up a pair of accuride locking slides with a 500lb load rating. These babies are beasts. Rebuilding the system tomorrow. Wish me luck. I've been working on this 4 days straight.
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Wrapping up the slide out and putting the covers back on the generators today. Have to fab a larger screen mesh door because the opening has been enlarged. Here are pics from today. Working in Michigan winter is lame. So lame. My fingers are numb.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/01/e0bbb793afadb868b7af1b4007ce1fad.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/01/374d966b67de4da06e55c1d661f03d72.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/01/f43ceea5f4292b110d5e022490009e34.jpg)
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/01/f43ceea5f4292b110d5e022490009e34.jpg)
I just came from swimming in the ocean (Atlantic, NC coast). You're making me COLD!!!
(Seriously, nice job on the slides. I think your project has come out very well. What did you finally decide about an exhaust system? Did you go with a two exhausts into one muffler system? How are you arranging the exhaust connections for the slides?)
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:) go in and get warm... you have earned a rest :)
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Generators are all put back together, drawer is done. We modified the screen mesh door today to make it wider and welded the hinge open and installed a piano hinge along the top of the door now so it flips up to open which allows the generators to clear the sides when sliding out. Exhaust is a 90° bend that comes straight out the back as you can see in the photos. Two separate exhausts. I'll cut holes in the mesh so the door flips over them. This way not exhaust messing around when trying to slide gens out. :) so thankful for my father in law and my uncle for helping me. This is child's play for my uncle mike. He restores multimillion dollar cars for a living. If you've heard of the Bugatti that was never finished years ago and it now complete and traveling all the PGA circuits, my uncle is the guy who built that beauty. He's working on a '32 pace car and other cool stuff. He's a metal shaper. Does it with power hammers. Only one of a small handful of artisans that shape metal this way still. Anyway, for him to help me on my bus was a privilege :) (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/01/98117ca7f7e2a78cc685e40f6d65c231.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/01/0c12bedbda5143a3189032f5c9f58e0b.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/01/2bf93380e224df1c9ac2012f06fd1f32.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/01/a2b7d60ceb44f398c1e583e16999498a.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/01/ca4482c7ad7368ad290a64eb65a5ef31.jpg)
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just a up date on my honda 7000is gene in stall in the old condenser bay
we are in florida for a while and the trip down here was HOT for us any way it was 88 f - 91 f on the last part of the trip and used the gene for the last 6 hrs of the trip non stop with both a/c s running . every thing worked excellent , gene ran cool with no problems at all .
most of the time on the last part of the 2nd day ( 5 hrs ) on the road I used the front split unit a/c running off of the magnum 4024 hybrid inverter and off the bus alternator with out using the gene at all . again it worked perfect
I would like to thank Brian bevans6 and dave5cs for all there help and pushing me to change my old set up for the new set up
24 v battery bank , new inverter , new gene set up
thanks dave
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Allow me to say how much I love the install, but most of all the tartan jacket! I have a new one this year in bright red and black, but that multi-coloured jacket rocks!
Brian
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Great work, great pictures!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
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Dave thanks for the update. so far I love the twins. Time will tell as to how long they hold up. But I already have nearly 400 hours on them. No kidding. No issues. Changed the oil a couple of times. Using Mobil 1 synthetic. Brian, thanks for the props on my jacket :) it was formerly serving duty as my snowboard jacket but soon became my work coat :)
The install is mostly complete. We wrapped up everything yesterday morning and Heather and I drove across the state (Michigan) and we are in southwestern Michigan at the moment riding out a 6" lake effect snow system. It's going to be 19° here tonight. I think we will leave tonight after our tax appointment and start heading south. Texas is back on the radar....McAllen Edinburg...the valley. Yesterday we were caught on black ice on interstate 94 and I locked up all 8 for the first time. Then one by one cars ended up in the ditch. A suburban passed me and passed a semi in front of me, and then wiped out in front of both of us. It was an interesting night to say the least. But we are safe and cozy at a nice campground on the river here in Berrien Springs. Hopefully will make some miles this afternoon/evening and only have to endure..... 20°?? Lol. Good news is that in just another week or so we will be basking in 74° and sunshine in the Texas Rio Grande Valley.
Will take some photos of "completed" install. Still some tidying up to do to finish everything and make it look clean, but for now, it works.
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Here are my last pictures of my slightly ghetto but functional install. It snowed yesterday and it's downright chilly tonight at 7° F. Headed straight to Texas in the morning. I'm over this.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/04/f14c9838a8912f831bc201e7ef6c4a98.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/04/34494538abbb2aff4263f0b83fd067a5.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/04/e0c26ad172ac4f78136ef4bb01d89a22.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/04/52660a619ad87653dbe543fca0b6347d.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/04/9e1155921cab5ee0af693d732a383921.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/04/71e1e3d45f2d7c4249c7e3fcd81b75ca.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/04/f8301397e23ad273bb31bfdd1b72dcef.jpg)
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