BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: richard5933 on September 09, 2018, 08:18:36 AM
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Anyone know where I can find the weight of a 4108 when it was in service as a seated coach? Would be nice to know the figures that Greyhound and Trailways used on the bus for empty weight and max capacity when loaded with passengers & luggage.
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MCI has a document called an FVR (Final Vehicle Report). It details many of the components as delivered but weight is not included. Maybe GM has something similar but includes weight as it varies depending on how outfitted.
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Apparently there's supposed to be a sticker on the left-hand windshield post facing the driver with some of the information, but of course mine is no longer legible. Maybe someone out there has a 35-foot buffalo that still has a legible sticker/certificate on the windshield post?
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Good luck on your search,I have never saw those attached to a bus,I have saw a few in the operators manual with the attached copy of the final report for curb weight
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Operator's Manual - who would have thought. I just looked and found a few facts...
The 4108 is listed as:
GVWR: 30,000 lbs
Front GAWR of 11,000 lbs
Rear GAWR of 19,000 lbs
Oddly, the front end of the 4905 is listed as 12,000 lbs, even though it appears to have the basic components. All of this is calculated with G-rated tires.
We weighed the coach recently with full water (90 gallons) and fuel tanks (165 diesel & 2x 30lb propane). Results were:
Front axle: 11120
Rear axle: 18460
TOTAL: 29580
Since then we've probably added another 300-350 pounds of gear to the bus. I'm sure we're still under the 30,000 GVWR listed in the Operator's Manual, but the front axle is heavier than they list by about 500 pounds. But, it's still under the 12,000 lbs listed for the 4905.
Do I need to put the coach on a diet? We're running on L-rated tires instead of the G-rated discussed in the manual, so I'm not worried about overloading the tires. My worry is more about the axle capacity, handling, etc. Should I be worried?
BTW, I'm planning to run the bus across the scales on our way out east later this month to verify the accuracy of our last weigh in.
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IMHO the GM design engineers we're the best of the best, they ironed any flaws out during WWII & if your GVW is 30,000 lbs. then you'd be able to carry 40,000 lbs. But instead of it giving a service life of 60-70 years, you may cut a decade off of that. Not literally but just saying I think your splitting hair. I totally respect what you have witnessed & been involved in with bus ownership - just throwing my 2c in...
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IMHO the GM design engineers we're the best of the best, they ironed any flaws out during WWII & if your GVW is 30,000 lbs. then you'd be able to carry 40,000 lbs. But instead of it giving a service life of 60-70 years, you may cut a decade off of that. Not literally but just saying I think your splitting hair. I totally respect what you have witnessed & been involved in with bus ownership - just throwing my 2c in...
Thanks Dan. That's what I was assuming but it's always nice to have confirmation.
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Two axle buses the way buses are designed are easy to over load a front axle with baggage bays ,think of a 1in plank on 2 cinder blocks and set a block in the middle of the 1in plank that is the same affect you have.I know you don't like buses with a tag axle but those of us that have a tag axle can adjust the weight on the front axle up to a certain point with air pressure you on the other hand will need to move things around,no more than you are over I wouldn't even worry about it JMO
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I guess people weight more than suitcases-because my 40ft AMGeneral transit bus has a 36,000lb GVW-13,000lb front and 23,000lb rear. But-I only weigh 31,000lb- 10,500lb front and 20,500lb rear. Even pulling my 3,750lb car behind, I'm still not over gross weight. And I bet, the axles are exactly the same as on your bus. Good Luck, TomC
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Richard -
I just looked in my 4108/4905 parts book and discovered something you might find interesting:
The front axle for both coaches has the same part number! So do the spindles, radius rods, air bellows, bump stops and other miscellaneous axle parts.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
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Probably the same as 4104 and 4106 also. Btw, the front axle housings are filled with kerosine or light oil. Quick way to tell if hsg is cracked by wet area on hsg.
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Richard -
I just looked in my 4108/4905 parts book and discovered something you might find interesting:
The front axle for both coaches has the same part number! So do the spindles, radius rods, air bellows, bump stops and other miscellaneous axle parts.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
That was what I thought when I looked but couldn't tell for certain. Thanks for the confirmation. Not sure exactly why the difference in capacity then, other than those models with the tag axle.
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I know that this is an older thread, but I discovered something today I think is worth noting.
There was a thread on another bus conversion site about a GVWR plaque on an MCI which got me thinking of this again. Now that it's warm enough, I went to the bus and looked carefully at the pillar next to the driver. Lo and behold, there under the paint, I found the plaque. In this case, it's more of a typewritten piece of paper held on by a clear plastic sticky film.
It took awhile to clean off the paint - I used a piece of painter's tape to carefully pull the paint of the plastic layer. I can see why they painted over it - it's not pretty. But, I now have a legible GVWR 'plaque' should I ever need one.
Of course, as discussed earlier, I'm a few hundred over the front axle rating. But since that was based on G-rated bias ply tires and not the L-rated radials we have on their now, I'm not too concerned. (Plus all the other things we discussed last fall.)
Since it is so unattractive, I'm thinking that I might make some type of cover for it from a sheet of magnetic sheet. It will be out of sight, but I can access as needed.
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I don't think that is unattractive. That's historic gold! I love finding stuff like that. That could easily be reproduced. The few guys restoring seated Buffalos would be interested I would think.
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I don't think that is unattractive. That's historic gold! I love finding stuff like that. That could easily be reproduced. The few guys restoring seated Buffalos would be interested I would think.
You're probably right - after I did some paint touch-up around the 'plaque' it doesn't look quite as bad. Really surprising to me that the thing was typed out like that on a plain piece of cardstock and just stuck to the pillar with the clear laminating sticker.
I've got a typewriter from the proper era to reproduce this if needed. You're correct - it would not be difficult.
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I believe GM used similar method in door jam of 1970s cars too.
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I love reproducing decals!
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What method are you using to reproduce those? Especially the red one - looks like it's printed on metallic background.
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I am not personally reproducing them. Yes, some are silver foil type. I have a very talented artist at "Fast Signs" here in town. I take measurements, and good photos, and he does the rest. Sometimes they charge me $50 or so "artist time" if he has to re-draw some decals, or create a custom font that does not exist. Then it's a few dollars per decal (for small interior examples). He has done interior/exterior decals for several coaches around the country. You can spend thousands for exterior, especially if you do reflective as the originals mostly were. He seems to enjoy getting the details exactly correct. Most any place that does vinyl decals can do this work. The key is finding a place that cares about the details. Here's a few exterior examples he did.
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I've had push button directions printed on thin brushed aluminum material 20 years ago. There are many small shops that can do this work nowadays. You just need to visit a couple to ask about their capabilities.
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I think I may have found the answer to why GM gave the 4905 has a higher front axle GAWR than the 4108.
In the service manual I found a line which showed that the 4905 came stock with 12.5x22.5 tires while the 4108 came with 12.0x22.5 tires.
The only difference in the front end specs of the two buses I've been able to find is this tire difference, and it could explain why the 4905 has a 12,000lbs front GAWR and not the 11,000lbs GAWR of the 4108.
Just a theory but I thought I'd throw it out there. Of course, none of us actually know what the engineers had in mind or what they based their numbers on, but I enjoy hunting down things like this.