BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: richard5933 on January 16, 2019, 06:04:29 PM
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Anyone have any first-hand experience with these on a bus?
Now that it's only a couple of months till spring, I'm once again debating tires. These are in the running to replace the 315s currently on our bus, since they are available in the proper 12R22.5 size with an H weight rating.
Their loaded radius is exactly the same as what we have now, so they shouldn't create a lowered ride height problem, and they are a tad narrower which should stop the potential to rub the air bags on a full turn.
My concerns would be ride comfort and noise, so I was hoping someone has some experience.
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Along with same lines, anyone have thoughts about the benefit/loss to handling and braking with the slightly narrower tread width?
I've read mixed reports - since the wider tires spread the load over a greater surface area, there is debate as to where the maximum braking point is. Go too wide and the braking is less due to fewer lbs/sq in. Go too narrow and there isn't enough surface area to provide traction.
The 315s are great in my experience, and I don't know if the 12R22.5 will be an improvement or worse.
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thou dost over think, adjust :)
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thou dost over think, adjust :)
Yeah - that's obvious. Story of my life (literally).
Knowing that doesn't tell me anything about the tires I'm considering though, which is why I reached out to get opinions on the tires from others. I'm hoping that someone who doesn't overthink things has used them and can offer some thoughts about the tires and about the change in general.
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Yeah - that's obvious. Story of my life (literally).
Knowing that doesn't tell me anything about the tires I'm considering though, which is why I reached out to get opinions on the tires from others. I'm hoping that someone who doesn't overthink things has used them and can offer some thoughts about the tires and about the change in general.
I think the clearance issue is the only one worthy of thought. the rest is adjustable with defensive driving and ear plugs or white noise :)
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Busnuts go camping...
Off road is an issue, lots of stories of peeps getting stuck on a wet lawn ( no, I don't mean sink to the axles)
If a tire rotates in place on the lawn, that's the end of the beginning, rotate it a few more times...
Some bite back there means the first stationary rotation doesn't happen, when it could.
FWIW
happy coaching!
buswarrior
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They are, most likely, not used by many here. You can check opinions on the trucker forums for some info. Personally, I wouldn't use them on my vehicles. I don't care for Firestone products.
And ride quality is subjective. If you replace worn out tires with new ones, the ride is going be improved with full tread depth and new pliable rubber. Also the number of plies is going to greatly effect ride on rough roads. Of course just my opinion on them. fwiw
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Yep, there is overthinking going on, I've done it myself. If the 315's are rubbing your airbags, don't use them. The original 12X22.5 might be okay except for the fact that it is an uncommon size that is harder to get on the road, and also costs more. A narrower tread will grip better in snow and mud (relatively). So, get a size that works diameter wise for gearing in a size that is easily available at at reasonable price. Stick with brands and models that get good reviews for quality (which means stay away from Chinese brands in my opinion), but don't be afraid of foreign made tires that were supervised by an established outfit. Firestone used to be a prime supplier long ago, but they are not the same lately. Looks like a slightly smaller metric size might work best. 8)
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Ok. I think I've got a handle on the bigger issue. Stop over thinking and pick a tire.
One last question...
I know the gold standard is 495 revs per mile. Our current tires are 490. Some of the tires under consideration are 487 revs.
My gut tells me that I'll never notice the difference. Also, once the tire gets worn a little the revs will increase.
Is there any practical difference between 495 & 487?
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About 1.7%, or at 50, less than 1mph.
Jim
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8 wheel revolutions in a mile difference...
In a mile...
One and six tenths percent...
In an old 2 stroke transit geared bus with a 5:1 ratio differential, everything counts to try and stay out of the way on the super slab.
In your highway coach?
Meaningless without scientific measurement, and then, still meaningless.
For your clearance issue, and a suitable riding bus tire, get hold of a manufacturer tire rep, not a dealer, tell them the story, they'll know the tire to choose.
Rep not a dealer.
Dealers sell stuff in stock, or that which has highest profit, reps know the business.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
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My Newell had FS561's on it when I bought it. Nice tire, no problems at all. At 6 years old there is no checking or cracking. Ride quality is good.
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Last I KNEW the Firestone is also discounted by Michelin Advantage aka the FMCA discount program.
They are on my account.
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Last I KNEW the Firestone is also discounted by Michelin Advantage aka the FMCA discount program.
They are on my account.
The program doesn't show any Firestone tires right now. However, it does show the BF Goodrich ST230 in the 12R22.5 size. From checking the specs it looks like that is the BF Goodrich version of the FS561.
Not sure, but it seems that the FMCA discounted price is about the same, or possibly a tad higher, than the price I was quoted at the tire dealer for the FS561s, so not sure there is any benefit to using the FMCA program on this one. There is one Michelin tire (XZE) in the 12R22.5 size for about the same price after the discount, but I'm not sure that it's a better tires. Seems like the Michelin show signs of cracking and weather damage much sooner than the Firestone.
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I have FS 561s on the front and they are fine. I had FS 560s there previously for 6 years before moving them to the tag, where they have continued to stand up well.
Mike in GA
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Most new tires put on your coach will be fine, till you have a problem. Going to be difficult to tell difference between them.
How many problems have been experienced by running over a curb or other obstruction, or running low on air? Go with whatever you feel comfortable with.
Personally, I'm a Michelin guy, and my coach lives inside my shop when not in use. And Michelins are around everywhere. Have you tried Les Schawb? They seem to suit many here to the west. We don't have them around here.
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Most new tires put on your coach will be fine, till you have a problem. Going to be difficult to tell difference between them.
How many problems have been experienced by running over a curb or other obstruction, or running low on air? Go with whatever you feel comfortable with.
Personally, I'm a Michelin guy, and my coach lives inside my shop when not in use. And Michelins are around everywhere. Have you tried Les Schawb? They seem to suit many here to the west. We don't have them around here.
Do you notice that the Michelins weather more than other brands for those (like me) that have no choice but to park outside?
No Les Schawb around here either. Best I've found so far is Pomp's, at their commercial location.
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Do you notice that the Michelins weather more than other brands for those (like me) that have no choice but to park outside?
No Les Schawb around here either. Best I've found so far is Pomp's, at their commercial location.
Thousands of truckers use them without regret.
Most coach users age out before wear out.
I use the XZE for steers.
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Over emphasised mythology?
No matter whose tires you wear, it is prudent to shade them from the UV while parked in storage.
If brand A gets slagged for sidewall cracking at 9 years, and brand B shows no cracking at 18 years...
And one is in the desert, and the other is in a garage, and the other sat still 11 months of the year, and the other was driven every weekend, and one was run over-inflated, and one was on an axle with a dragging brake...
Does it matter?
Who is complaining?
Run whatever will fit?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
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So, here's the end of the story on my tire decision...
I took the bus today to Pomp's. They have a commercial tire location, and the manager seemed on top of his game. They weren't too sure what they would be looking at when I arranged for the inspection, and they were even more surprised when I pulled up.
Bottom line, he was shocked at the condition of the tires. They are dated 2011, but he could find no sign of weather checking on the sidewalls or cracking in the treads. Without a hesitation, he said that un-mounting the tires for additional inspection was not needed at this time.
My plan is to use them this summer and bank the money to buy a new set when we pull it out after next winter. The only issue remaining is the slight contact between the tires and front air bags on hard turns which will require me to be mindful and avoid hard turns.
Based on the information I got when I bought the bus in Oct. 2017, it sounds like the tires were installed sometime around 2014-5. The original owner of the bus was a charter fleet owner, and the guy I bought it from (Tom) is a used/vintage bus dealer. Not sure which installed the 315 tires that are on there now, but it happened around the time the bus was sold to Tom. I'm guessing that these tires were bought in some quantity by one of them, and then sat on the rack for a couple of years until they were installed. Then the bus was stored indoors for most of the time till I got it. That, combined with the fact that these L-rated tires are way more tire than needed to carry the weight of the 35-foot coach probably has helped them stay in good condition.
I know that some may disagree, but for now this is the plan.
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You can adjust the wheel stops so they don't let the tires hit.
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You can adjust the wheel stops so they don't let the tires hit.
That was one of the things we considered, but it involves more than just the wheel stops on our power steering unit - according to the manual the There needs to be a gap of 3/8" at the stops at the point the pressure drops. If the physical stop is hit while the power steering unit is still making pressure it will blow the hydraulics - at least that's the way it was explained to me.
The shop was willing to do it, but cautioned that making adjustments to a power steering unit which hasn't been touched in decades could lead to other problems like leaks from any seals which are moved. I was cautioned that it would be safer to just use caution during close maneuvers.
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Blow the hydraulics? The units have over pressure bypasses built in.
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Blow the hydraulics? The units have over pressure bypasses built in.
Maybe I didn't explain it well - probably because I don't understand it well. Best I can tell from reading the manual, when adjusting the physical stops it's necessary to also adjust the relief valve plungers using a pressure gauge.
For now, I'm going to carry on without making the adjustment by being aware of the problem - I will be installing the proper 12R22.5 tires within the next year, and at that point the steering adjustment won't be necessary.
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When it still rubs with proper tires, stop at Luke's and have it taken care of. Does the rim have the correct offset for that coach?
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When it still rubs with proper tires, stop at Luke's and have it taken care of. Does the rim have the correct offset for that coach?
Luke's would be the place for that work, especially since Bill would be equipped to handle anything that goes wrong. However, the 12R22.5 is considerably narrower (more than 1/2") so I don't foresee a problem once the tires are changed. The tire is barely making contact at the corner of the tread - move that corner over 1/4" and things should be fine.
Best I can tell, rims are factory steel rims.