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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Jeremy on July 23, 2020, 04:39:38 AM
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This story caught my eye because the risks associated with old tyres on our buses has been discussed many times on the board:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/government-to-ban-old-tyres-on-buses-and-trucks-in-bid-to-up-safety/ar-BB175oQM?ocid=msedgntp (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/government-to-ban-old-tyres-on-buses-and-trucks-in-bid-to-up-safety/ar-BB175oQM?ocid=msedgntp)
Obviously this only applies to the UK and (presumably) only applies to vehicles in commercial service, but nonetheless it's interesting to see that the dangers of old tyres being addressed like this
Jeremy
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Finally, a government with some resolve to address this situation.
Let's see if North America takes up the challenge?
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
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More socialist, liberal, controls? who needs this?
Having done a fair bit of deep diving on the subject, this is one person's interpretation on the state of commercial tire safety in the USA.
Although there are not specific regulations on tire age, the tire industry effectively self manages and keep unsafe and aged tires off the road. Nearly all commercial trucks recap tires and the first checkpoint is the recap facility. Most will not accept a tire over 5 years and a handful may take them up to 7 years. The tires must also pass very critical tests to ensure the tire casing is sound. Anything less and the tire is rejected outright; let's assume it goes on the dump pile and not put back into service.
Given the typical annual milage put on commercial tires, the 5 year limit provides a couple years to run the recaps before the casings age out.
Another factor is the overbearing litigious tendencies embedded into the American DNA. The insurance and commercial operators prefer to avoid lawsuits and crashing a big rig due to negligent tire management is the fastest to losing your business and house.
One thing worth pursuing is reviewing DOT crash stats, looking for accidents caused by failed aged out tires. I'd be surprised if it was a significant issue and I'm sure driver fatigue, lack of experience, reckless driving behavior account for most of the avoidable accidents.
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Intense lobbying by the tire companies should get this enacted here and benefit sales of new tires. Just like expiration dates on beer.😑
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When I started paying attention to date codes - I stopped having blowouts.
A rear or trailer tire blowout is a nuisance, A steer tire blowout can be a life changing experience - one I don't wish to repeat.
I just put 6 new Firestone FS560 plus tires on mine - the old ones were 8 years old.
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Intense lobbying by the tire companies should get this enacted here and benefit sales of new tires. Just like expiration dates on beer.😑
Interestingly the law in the UK has apparently come-about because of the ceaseless (tireless even) campaigning of a lady whose son was killed in a bus crash caused by an old tyre a number of years ago, and her dogged persistence in getting the Government to introduce this new law is commented-on and praised in various places by various people, including by the lawmakers themselves who she has obviously been badgering for years. It's kind-of reassuring to know that a truly committed member of the public can achieve something like that.
Jeremy
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Yes, many commercial tires wear out before 10 years, but there are also a lot of smaller contractors who only use a dump truck or other large vehicle sporadically during construction season and never wear out their tires. Many of them don't want to replace tires with tread left just because of age. They maintain them just enough to avoid an out of service violation, or they just hope not to get caught since only doing local work for the most part.
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Frequently those old tires get shifted to the back where they are likely to do less damage when new ones are put on the front. But I have noticed that alligators on the freeway have been less of a problem in recent years. Or maybe I've just been driving less.
Jim
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Had a few minutes after catching my breath from the lithium upgrade and solar panel projects to dig in a bit into the topic of tires causing unsafe truck driving conditions. As suspected, this is a nothing burger relative to the many other ways large trucks get into accidents.
In this country, one simply needs to follow the money, and in this case it is both lawyers and everyone else looking to place blame to get some extra spending money.
[ link removed - legal - ] PJL
Few juicy excerpts:
When to Contact a Truck Accident Law Firm
Truck accident attorneys at Isaacs & Isaacs are experienced in investigating the causes of an accident to determine fault and securing damages for injured victims.
Findings from Large Truck Crash Causation Study By FMCSA
Twenty-seven percent of trucks were found to have brake problems
Nineteen percent of drivers were unfamiliar with the route
10 percent of truck drivers felt under pressure
Seven percent were overly tired
Three percent experienced tire problems
Five percent were driving in an aggressive manner
One percent were ill
0.4 percent were under the influence of illegal substances
0.3 percent had been consuming alcohol
Obviously, busnuts are an entirely different breed with different driving habits and such but at least this offers some fact based insight to what degree tires cause safety issues. FWIW.
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In Alberta and BC, and I think all over N. America, the DOT does not care about the age of tires. They do care and inspect tires for condition like tread wear, cuts and cracks. I think it is a good way to enforce safety. Some tires show cracking after 3 or 4 years, others look great after 12, 15 years... It depends on the compound material they are made of, and whether they are shaded out of direct sunlight when not in use.
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I don't understand the compounds used in tires today seems like they are made to crack.On this trip I changed out 6 Michelins XZA 2 because when I left home the cracks were tiny.The Michelin rep told me my 295/80/22.5 were UV cracks because the tires were 5 years old.I watched the cracks get large enough a dime or quarter would fit in the cracks and even being a tight @$# I sprung for 6 new Toyo's in Oregon to be on the save side,and they paid me $75.00 ea for the tires that covered the mounting and balancing with a little left over
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Frequently those old tires get shifted to the back where they are likely to do less damage when new ones are put on the front. But I have noticed that alligators on the freeway have been less of a problem in recent years. Or maybe I've just been driving less.
I have been rotating my steer tires to the tag axle. The drives I replaced all at once. I am on my second set of drive tires since I got the bus in 2006 and replaced all of the tires before I even drove it home.
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I don't understand the compounds used in tires today seems like they are made to crack.On this trip I changed out 6 Michelins XZA 2 because when I left home the cracks were tiny.The Michelin rep told me my 295/80/22.5 were UV cracks because the tires were 5 years old....
From what I've seen, this is a Michelin problem. Their tires seem to crack much earlier than other brands - seems to me that they've sacrificed longevity for a softer ride.
The Firestone tires I pulled off recently were about 9 years old and barely had a perceptible crack anywhere that could be found. If not for the age, they'd still be on the bus.
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From what I've seen, this is a Michelin problem. Their tires seem to crack much earlier than other brands - seems to me that they've sacrificed longevity for a softer ride.
The Firestone tires I pulled off recently were about 9 years old and barely had a perceptible crack anywhere that could be found. If not for the age, they'd still be on the bus.
It could be just Michelins,lol I still have 2 =315/80/22.5 on the steers I just purchased last month @ 800 bucks each they will be there for awhile I hope
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I have heard from a couple of people that Michelins had a tendency to crack earlier. I have no experience with it though. Further, that information was 12 years ago, so there is not telling if it remains true.
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Michelin is the only company I've seen that posts a chart w/photos detailing how much cracking is considered 'normal' on their tires. They must get lots of customer comments about it to publish such a chart. Maybe they could just design their tires not to crack to much instead??
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It's not just Michelin's big truck and bus tires that crack: their car tires do (my newish Pilot Sport A/S 3+ are cracked, but I don't care because they're a high-performance tire that isn't intended to last long anyway), a friend of mine with several nice motorbikes says the same of his Michelin tires, and even Michelin bicycle tires crack almost as you watch them. Let's hope Michelin doesn't make aircraft tires! It's too bad, because they're a fairly decent tire otherwise.
John
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Firestone & Goodyear post the same kind of acceptable "cracking" information about their air springs (bellows, air bags).
FWIW - we're running three of the original air bellows on our 4104 since purchase of the bus in 1979 and I venture to say they'll probably outlast all the replacement air bags changed since then and yes they are very cracked... :^
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Michelin is the only company I've seen that posts a chart w/photos detailing how much cracking is considered 'normal' on their tires. They must get lots of customer comments about it to publish such a chart. Maybe they could just design their tires not to crack to much instead??
Tiny cracks I could live with but the cracks growing in size after a 1000 miles I decided to change brands
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Right now I wish there were a hard rule on pulling tires after X number of years, at least as a driver of a CMV.
Sitting right now in a Pomp's waiting for the trailer tires to be looked at. Hooked to a trailer with 8+ year old Michelins, and they are looking pretty bad. The immediate problem is a leaking valve stem, but I bet they end up pulling all 8 tires and putting on new.
Another half a day shot in the @$#.
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Another thing bad a Michelin bus tires is when they age they are like a Flintstone tire they are like a rock and the tire shop told me that was a common complaint, my new Toyo's are a noticeable softer ride
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...The immediate problem is a leaking valve stem, but I bet they end up pulling all 8 tires and putting on new.
Another half a day shot in the @$#.
Boy was I wrong there...
They installed a new valve stem core and declared the tires all good to go. Nothing wrong, everything legal.
I'd never let those tires near my bus, even on the rear axle. Now I understand why there are so many tire gators on the road.
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They installed a new valve stem core and declared the tires all good to go. Nothing wrong, everything legal.
I'd never let those tires near my bus, even on the rear axle. Now I understand why there are so many tire gators on the road.
A friend of mine used to haul trailers out of a railroad yard. The railroad owned all the trailers and was responsible for the trailer tires. He said the railroad had tires on their trailers that barely met DOT requirements much of the time. Many times he lost a trailer tire on the road and had to wait for the railroad to send out a tire truck. The railroad had a tire dealer right at the yard due to all tire work the trailers needed.