BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: someguy on August 07, 2020, 09:00:16 PM
-
What are the limits of a 45 foot coach as far as going off pavement ?
I know that wet grass is off limits. I've seen a lot of regular RVs get stuck in wet grass too. Many trucks pulling 5th wheels have the truck carrying only 50% of the combination weight. Not much worse than the drive axle on a coach with the tag up ? Except the coach ground pressure is > 100PSI, whereas a pickup truck is ~50 PSI.
Will a coach go up a gravel logging road that a logging truck goes on ? The MCI J4500s have the capability to raise the suspension for a higher ride height.
Anyone have a locking axle in their coach ?
Highway tires are useless off pavement. Anyone running a more aggressive tread ? Have you ever aired down the tires for more flotation ? Down to 60 PSI ? Anyone running 365s ? Anyone carry tire chains in winter ?
Do you carry a tow strap ? A kinetic recovery rope ? A winch ?
When you are traveling long distances and want to just stop and overnight somewhere, where do you park ?
With the 5th wheel, I'd drive until late in the night and then pull over on a side street in a small town. Did it many times, was never asked to move. Have stayed at Walmarts but generally avoided them.
I spent a week in California south of LA. Couldn't find a campsite. Every morning we pulled into a beach parking lot and stayed until it closed. Put out the awning, enjoyed the day. Every night we pulled into parking lot behind a nearly strip mall. We were sure to pull out at 8AM. Employees saw us in the morning, but never said a word.
We've also slept in church parking lots with great success. Never spent the day at these places but the nights were fine. Generally all we need is a night. Parking during the day isn't a problem.
What is the closest you've ever parked to water ?
What is the most remote place you've ever camped with your coach ?
Ever needed a tow to get out ?
How does a bus handle icy winter roads ?
-
It's best to avoid driving in the yard unless the ground is very dry or rocky.
Jim
-
No locker diffs available for a coach. Wish there was... might look into what suitable donor could be rolled over, but not bored enough presently...
Trouble with getting pulled out, there's no decent hard points to attach your recovery strap to. Damage to the coach is often a result, and is under reported on these boards, as peeps don't brag about screwing up and/or breaking their coach.
If off roading in a coach worked, those adventurous old men who preceded us, with no internet to distract them, would have been doing it, and we would be following... they didn't, and we best not, for the same reasons... don't buy into this modern idea that everyone who came before us wasn't capable, interested or worthy...
Yes, lots of urban/guerilla camping gets done by busnuts. Many take pride that they have not paid for camping in many years.
Winter operations, nothing beats a 35/40 foot coach in the snow. Absolutely rock solid and stable. Stopping, same as everything else, you need some room. (Provided brake maintenance is up to date... uneven braking is quite exciting in any vehicle on the slippery stuff)
A 45 must have the front axle loaded heavy, as they are proportionately light in the front, and will most annoyingly slide when trying to get turned. They also will spin the drives more, trying to start out, as the tag axle is more heavily loaded/drives less, and the whole coach weighs more/ wider tires plowing, than the shorter buses.
Been driving 45's, DL, E, J, H345, TD925 for many years, up here in the Frozen North, don't really want a 45 foot camper...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
-
I believe that off-road use is one of the places a school bus conversion will shine. They have much more ground clearance potential. While still a single drive axle without lockup diff, they seem to be a better option off roading.
-
Gravel roads cost you air fliters,In Idaho sometime you have no choice I drove on a lot of gravel roads this summer,mine is heavy on the front axle ,driving in some areas my automatic traction control would engage at least the light on the dash said it did
-
I believe that off-road use is one of the places a school bus conversion will shine. They have much more ground clearance potential. While still a single drive axle without lockup diff, they seem to be a better option off roading.
A steel spring high profile Silversides would be good like a schoolie off road. What sticks in the center of my noggin while off road is the weight & low ground clearance. When lack of power enters the equation - the toad gooses!
-
I am with BW re the 45'. Driven them lots in commercial service, too big for a motor home.
Our 35' MC5C suits us well. Driving it puts a bigger smile on my face than driving a brand new Prevost or MCI car...
Closed shoulder blocky tread drive tires that are fairly quiet on pavement, but have good traction in snow and off road. Carrying chains is mandatory in many provinces and states in the winter. Have used them on occasion, but with the weight of the engine and trans on top of the drive axle, the traction is good. If you have tags, you can raise it in slippery condition to load the drives for more traction.
Off road: yea. We live on a gravel road. The farm yard is gravel and dirt. You get good at judging whether to dive in or not. You would miss a lot of nice places if you restricted yourself to pavement only. Driving grain trucks, you go get loaded in the field during harvest. It gets exiting at times pulling a B train out of there in soft ground... The more you drive your bus, the more confident you get, and good at judging the ground in front of you. If in doubt, get out to look on foot. I carry a big tow strap, just in case.
Overnight all over the place: WM, Home Depot, Lowes, Cracker Barrel, truck stops, rest areas, industrial side streets, etc, etc.
Do you have a subscription to Bus Conversion Magazine? I have written a few articles on winter driving, driving up and down big hills, etc.
JC
-
A 45 ft will limit places you go ,this summer I only found 1 place I could not get into with the tag axle raised and that was a camp ground in Lowman Id I love on the river
-
If I sold my MC5, I would be tempted by a 45 foot, seeing how gorgeous yours is Clifford. I am not totally against them, lol.
JC
-
If I sold my MC5, I would be tempted by a 45 foot, seeing how gorgeous yours is Clifford. I am not totally against them, lol.
JC
Sonja's have to have 4 slides limit mine too JC ,I am going back to school to figure out how to work the TV's
-
My 43 foot bus has never been in a campground or hooked to a pole except at home. All of my camping is boondocking and usually requires travel off of paved roads. I have yet to have an issue with highway tires. The one and only time I got stuck was after my bus sat in a gravel storage lot all winter. I was finally able to back out of the spot after spending quite a bit of time trying to get out.
-
These replies are more encouraging than I thought they would be.
Yes, 45 feet is long. But my current rig is 50 feet long and just as tall. The weight is the real issue.
The biggest thing I'm worried about is parking in a grass pasture at a music festival and then getting lots of rain and having to drive out on wet grass. But that gives just about every big RV a lot of grief. I think I'd carry a pair of light tire chains to help in situations like that.
I'm happy to hear that these buses are well behaved on snowy highways.
-
Gravel roads cost you air fliters,In Idaho sometime you have no choice I drove on a lot of gravel roads this summer,mine is heavy on the front axle ,driving in some areas my automatic traction control would engage at least the light on the dash said it did
The air filter on these coaches is huge. They can be blown out if you do it carefully. If you did this a lot, you'd install a prefilter/safety filter inside the main filter, like they do on some tractors.
-
No locker diffs available for a coach. Wish there was... might look into what suitable donor could be rolled over, but not bored enough presently..
Pre 2014 coaches run a standard truck rear axle. It is quite simple to swap gear ratios and put a locker in it by swapping in the center section of a different differential. The ECM would probably need to be reprogrammed with the new axle ratio too.
You can get a locker in a Prevost from the factory.
Post 2014 coaches use a ZF rear axle. Not a great thing as far as I'm concerned.
-
Pre 2014 coaches run a standard truck rear axle. It is quite simple to swap gear ratios and put a locker in it by swapping in the center section of a different differential. The ECM would probably need to be reprogrammed with the new axle ratio too.
You can get a locker in a Prevost from the factory.
Post 2014 coaches use a ZF rear axle. Not a great thing as far as I'm concerned.
"Standard truck axle" means something different to you than it does to someone looking to swap one... they are upside down, and not every axle can be rolled over.
Put a regular truck axle under your bus, and it will have multiple speeds in reverse...
The guys who were trying to get different gears back a bunch of years ago, to match their drivetrain swaps, had to do a lot of research and find a bemused representative at the axle manufacturers to give them a hand.
A stock locker would be nice.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
-
"Standard truck axle" means something different to you than it does to someone looking to swap one... they are upside down, and not every axle can be rolled over.
You don't need to swap the axle. You just swap the "differential carrier", which is the pinion, ring and diff spiders in an assembly. Like a 9" Ford axle where the "carrier" is a group that can be pulled from the axle housing. The axle housing, ie the differential housing with the brakes, spindles, spring mounts, etc. stays in place. That is the bus specific part of an axle, versus a truck axle.
I think some Prevosts use RC 23 160/165 axles. As far as I know the differential centers in those diffs are interchangeable with those from a highway truck using the same series of axle, the RS 23 with a 16 carrier type.
RC = coach
RS = single rear axle
RD = forward axle in a tandem
NC = USA, Driver controlled diff lock.
Who is going to crawl under their coach and get an axle model number for us ?
-
Doesn't the ring gear have to be on the other side of the pinion to get the correct rotation? That means a different carrier housing (hogs head) to get the right pinion height and reverse cut gears doesn't it? So then the only thing interchangeable in the hogs head would be the differential carrier.
Jim
-
Doesn't the ring gear have to be on the other side of the pinion to get the correct rotation? That means a different carrier housing (hogs head) to get the right pinion height and reverse cut gears doesn't it? So then the only thing interchangeable in the hogs head would be the differential carrier.
You'd think the ring would have to be moved to the other side, yes. I'm not sure what is interchangeable if that is the case.
-
What are the limits of a 45 foot coach as far as going off pavement ?
The practical limit is within the reach of the winch cable of the tow truck that is willing to come after you. :o
-
It's not a matter of if, but when I would get a coach stuck. I'll be carrying a kinetic rope and a long tow strap. And maybe a winch of some sort. I'll attempt to make use of local resources before calling in a tow truck.
-
Make sure you have a good plan for connecting that rope/tow strap when your front end is sunk in soft ground and there is no ground clearance at all.
-
Carry a stack of 8 2x10s or such - if you've got no choice but to cross some treacherous terrain, you can build yourself a road by driving on the boards like a very slow moving tank tread. Slow, but probably quicker than waiting for a Class 8 Tow to show up.
-
All wheel drive bus!?
We just go in so far then get in the 4X4 toad & do the rest (also in style...)
-
It's not a matter of if, but when I would get a coach stuck. I'll be carrying a kinetic rope and a long tow strap. And maybe a winch of some sort. I'll attempt to make use of local resources before calling in a tow truck.
Sounds like you may be underestimating what it takes to get a bus unstuck. There is so much weight involved and clearance issues, the need for a landoll class rig becomes pretty clear. For that matter, think and plan a lot before taking the bus off tarmac to minimize serious headaches.
-
Last May our local power utility, Idaho Power, wanted to replace a power pole on my property. I live in the high desert region of southern Idaho. In the summer the ground is as hard as rock. In the spring time it is a different matter. Last May Idaho Power and I walked out along the route the truck would need to take across my field. We found the ground hard and it appeared there would be no problem driving their dual axle trucks out to where the power pole was.
After scouting and agreeing the ground was solid they headed down the hill out to the pole in my field. The first single axle boom truck made it half way to the pole when the rear axle suddenly sank down and immediately was bogged in the mud. Thinking it was just an odd soft spot they sent their dual axle boom truck down to the first truck and keeping about 50' of distance between came to a stop. The idea was to tow out the single axle truck with the dual axle truck. The dual axle truck sank into the ground down to the frame on both the front and rear axles.
They then drove their back hoe down to try and help pull/push the big truck out of the way. The back hoe could hardly keep itself from getting stuck. Then next called a D6 dozer in from their depot. Using the dozer, lots of jacking and cribbing and several hours later they had all trucks unstuck.
What we saw and discovered was the top 12" of ground was pretty solid, but under this top pan was a layer that liquefied when any load or shock was applied to it. When solid this layer appeared like it would not be a problem, but under load or shock it was just liquid mud. In fact, the hard top pan would move like a wave if the load applied was heavy enough or had enough shock.
Idaho Power was totally shocked with what happened and apologized profusely. They came back out later and fully restored and repaired all the damage done. You can imagine the ruts they left behind once they finally extracted all the trucks, the back hoe, and the dozer.
I learned from this experience there was absolutely no way a heavy vehicle could extract itself. Heavy cribbing by itself was not enough. It just sank into the ground. Only the dozer with its much lower ground loading and higher traction was able to extract those trucks. A bus would have been hopelessly stuck until the ground dried up more since there are no good points to pull with as much load as they did anywhere on a coach.
So - even though the ground looked and acted perfectly acceptable for driving heavy equipment on it, it was in fact not anywhere close to dry enough. Given the time of year Idaho Power should have done a few ground boreings to confirm the sub-surface was as dry as the surface.
-
Another picture
-
more pictures
-
Should also mention that even with the dozer they had to yank on the connecting cable. The dozer would back up and put a good amount of slack in the pull cable. Then the dozer would "sprint" forward and using momentum yank the truck. You can imagine the shock load this put on the trucks frame! It took several good runs to begin to get the big truck unstuck.
-
Sounds just as bad as permafrost does. Around here the surface contains a lot of humus and even if it is very dry it will just squish out when the bus rolls over it. Very easy to leave 4" deep ruts rolling very carefully over dry ground with the bus. Those excursions have to be planned out along with an extraction plan and you stop at the very first sign of any trouble and begin figuring out how you are going to get back out. Under no circumstances do you continue onward if the tires sink 2"
Jim
-
I'm late to the party here, but I'll try and get this back on topic.
I have 2 tires with traction tread, I didn't plan it that way, it was just what my local shop could find me in a pinch. I'd like to split them so I have 1 traction tire on each side, vs two on one site.
I should carry a tow strap with me for where I like to go.
For overnights, I like a rest stops, but I try and find some little off the beaten path places. I'll look at freecampsites.net and even browse Google Maps for a spot that might work.
Closest I've ever parked to water? Wanted to go on the beach on Padre, but I thought better of it and stayed in the campground there. There are a few places here in MN I can camp within a stone's throw of water that we enjoy.
Most remote place? I've got a tie. Lake Harriet Rustic Campground in northern MN https://goo.gl/maps/UD5xiopBtyywz7FC6 ended up being pretty darn remote. I also managed to stuff our bus in a tiny spot down seemingly endless dirt roads in Moose Lake, WI https://goo.gl/maps/grvtM5YyvzGkWiBk6
We also went to the Tetons and boondocked at a popular but somewhat remote place https://www.campendium.com/upper-teton-view I'm sure nothing like the remote deserts Belfert goes to.
I wanted to get towed out of the sand at Mears State park in MI, ended up self extracting with a bottle jack and the entire campground watching, and eventually cheering as we made it out.
I found out how bad icy roads can be this spring on our way back from Texas to MN. Under a few bridges it would ice up in the shade I felt the back end want to slip out a few times. So I started letting off under the bridges.
I love boondocking, I'm this driving contradiction of having a 40 ft 34,000 coach and wanting to park it in remote places it has no business being. Maybe someday I'll et a giant overlander, but for now we need the room with the kids and I love love love putting miles on it. Maybe I was supposed to be a trucker.
-
This ^^^ sounds just like me.
If you think a coach is unwieldly, take a look at this rig. 76 feet long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ9gdj2VgHw
Your coach has a ton of weight on the rear axle if you lift the tag. That truck only has about 10,000 pounds on the rear axle and the whole unit weighs nearly 40,000 pounds.
The truck weighs about 18K. The Mobile Suites is another 17K. The Smart car and dolly are another 2.5K, but is carried by its own axle. The font axle on the truck will weigh 12K. The Mobile Suite axles will be hauling at least 12K, probably 15K. Leaving the car out of it, 35K - 24K = 11K on the drive axle, maybe less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qHh7huwoc4
-
Their videos are amusing - not sure if they are expecting to be able to take that where ever one would normally go with a 5th wheel pulled by a pickup, but they try. More than a couple of problems for them.
-
Get ready they passed new laws where the 5th wheels can be 45 ft long just the 5th wheel
-
I wish I’d have recorded it, but we made the turn at the end of Mears Beach campground with literally inches to spare . Cars and rigs are packed in there.
-
This ^^^ sounds just like me.
If you think a coach is unwieldly, take a look at this rig. 76 feet long.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ9gdj2VgHw
Your coach has a ton of weight on the rear axle if you lift the tag. That truck only has about 10,000 pounds on the rear axle and the whole unit weighs nearly 40,000 pounds.
The truck weighs about 18K. The Mobile Suites is another 17K. The Smart car and dolly are another 2.5K, but is carried by its own axle. The font axle on the truck will weigh 12K. The Mobile Suite axles will be hauling at least 12K, probably 15K. Leaving the car out of it, 35K - 24K = 11K on the drive axle, maybe less.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qHh7huwoc4
Watching that makes me feel a bit better about maneuvering my 35' 5A up my driveway. I had a total of less that 40 miles behind the wheel and had a couple spots where my clearance was less 6" on either side. My driveway is about 1500' of turns, hills, and gravel through the woods on a prescriptive easement which means I can't make it any better. I had spotters in the front and back and the front spotter could direct me with hand signals and occasionally stopping to tell me what was going on. The biggest issue we ran into was having to stop to get more air pressure since the compressor was having to keep up with a leaky bag among other things.
-
Their videos are amusing - not sure if they are expecting to be able to take that where ever one would normally go with a 5th wheel pulled by a pickup, but they try. More than a couple of problems for them.
HDT RV hauler drivers claim they can go anywhere a pickup truck can because the steering axle cut is much sharper than a pickup truck. Their words, not mine.
-
I have a garage stub that is 73 ft from the eaves of the house to the curb on the other side. First time driving my DL I turned it around in that stub. Only had to back and fill a few times. I considered that a pretty good accomplishment. A rear view camera would be a really big help, that goes on the list.
Might have given the wrong impression, that stub is off a narrow 1 lane driveway. It was sorta tight.
Jim
-
Get ready they passed new laws where the 5th wheels can be 45 ft long just the 5th wheel
They can pass all the laws they want, but it's not automatically going to make the campgrounds any easier to maneuver. It's just going to encourage more people to take too-large rigs in places they shouldn't be.
I've seen 53-foot trailers made into 'motor home' trailers. Doubt we're going to see them accommodated in a campground any time soon either.
-
They can pass all the laws they want, but it's not automatically going to make the campgrounds any easier to maneuver. It's just going to encourage more people to take too-large rigs in places they shouldn't be.
I've seen 53-foot trailers made into 'motor home' trailers. Doubt we're going to see them accommodated in a campground any time soon either.
There was one in the KOA in Williams Az last week and I am sure that wasn't his first campground,all the RV parks we stayed in so far this trip have 65 to 75 feet pull throughs
-
Head up to this part of the country or the the areas north/east of here towards New England and you'll see much different offerings. Things are much different in the western & southern parts.
What length of rig you can maneuver through a campground will depend on what parts of the country you plan to visit. We were in a KOA in Virginia which could handle a 45-foot coach towing a car, but the nearby roads couldn't easily hand that.
-
Doesn't the ring gear have to be on the other side of the pinion to get the correct rotation? That means a different carrier housing (hogs head) to get the right pinion height and reverse cut gears doesn't it? So then the only thing interchangeable in the hogs head would be the differential carrier.
Thinking about this further, I'm guessing the bus drive axles use the same "differential carrier" but spin it 180 degrees in the differential housing, ie upside down from how it runs in the trucks. That would put the ring gear on the other side and drive the axles in the right direction.
I should call a gear shop and find out.
-
Their videos are amusing - not sure if they are expecting to be able to take that where ever one would normally go with a 5th wheel pulled by a pickup, but they try. More than a couple of problems for them.
"We Hit a Tree... and a Gate... and a Garden Island"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skOLnxz8Oxk
The problem with his rig is the trailer pivots on its axles going around a corner and the trailer axles are about 45 feet behind the front of the truck. You need to get the front of the truck 45 feet past the corner before you start turning or the trailer undercuts the turn the truck makes and rubs the obstacle on the inside of the turn. And his swing out is very wide too, especially with the tote thing on the back.
A coach pivots on the drive axle if the tag is lifted. The drive axle is about 30 feet from the front of the bus.
The other issue with 5ers is that the entire undercarriage - tires, brakes, springs, axles and hubs - are undersized for the job. Especially if you tow long distances, when it is hot. His trailer has 10,000 miles on it and the brake is dragging and he is about to have a bearing issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeZHsEUuskk
-
Thinking about this further, I'm guessing the bus drive axles use the same "differential carrier" but spin it 180 degrees in the differential housing, ie upside down from how it runs in the trucks. That would put the ring gear on the other side and drive the axles in the right direction.
I should call a gear shop and find out.
I doubt it. That would place the pinion above the centerline of the axle. But you could check it easily enough by looking under a bus.
Jim
-
A coach pivots on the drive axle if the tag is lifted.
A Coach pivots on the heaviest axle, the tag gets dragged up or down. It pivots easier with less resistance if the tag is up, but the point of pivoting is the drive axle. :o
-
Their videos are amusing - not sure if they are expecting to be able to take that where ever one would normally go with a 5th wheel pulled by a pickup, but they try. More than a couple of problems for them.
I think they made a big deal out of nothing. A good driver could have maneuvered out of there without the chit-chat. There was a camera at the fifth-wheel, she was not needed. I doubt the driver had tractor-trailer experience.
-
A Coach pivots on the heaviest axle, the tag gets dragged up or down. It pivots easier with less resistance if the tag is up, but the point of pivoting is the drive axle. :o
Yes the wheel base is measured from the center line of the steer axle to to the center line of drive axle on buses tag axles are just like they are named they tag along carrying a little weight
-
I think they made a big deal out of nothing. A good driver could have maneuvered out of there without the chit-chat. There was a camera at the fifth-wheel, she was not needed. I doubt the driver had tractor-trailer experience.
I would agree that it appears experience is lacking. One thing that I don't see them do before going into some of these places is have the driver G.O.A.L. (get out and look).
The first thing that I was taught when I got my CDL class A training was the importance of getting out of the truck and looking at the situation from all sides of the vehicle. If pulling into a shipper or consignee where I'd never been before, I was required to get out and walk to the dock first if there were any doubts about the access. Having a spotter is great, but the driver needs to get out and look, sometimes multiple times.
Also doesn't look like the driver is squaring the corners as much as possible or using all available space to swing the trailer. True, his setup is less than ideal for tight quarters, but I'm not sure that every driver would have the same problems.
All that said, I'll take my 35-foot bus any day in situations like they've been stuck.
-
No doubt about it, get out and look. If you have someone "assisting" you and a mistake is made, it will be on the driver, not the assistant. The driver is totally responsible for the truck or bus. I have been in cheapskate storage yards where the trailers were so close together you can't fit your head between the trailers, and you have to squat-crawl to crank the landing gear. You have to slide the tandems all the way back to get in.
Campgrounds can be challenging, but not usually if you are aware of all hazards. Above all, don't let a stranger give you guidance, they'll disappear when you snag a branch. Wives sometimes fail to grasp the concepts of space and relative distances, but at least they don't disappear when the worst happens (even though they should). Get out and look.
-
"Wives sometimes fail to grasp the concepts of space and relative distances,"
Yup, every time Ive backed into something its been her fault. :D :D :D
-
Here is another unwieldy rig. This time the tractor is a tandem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TlV1lR0Suc
-
It is small for an experienced trucker. It is really big for a newby wantabe closet trucker, lol.
-
These people with the Heavy Duty Trucks (HDT) are mostly full-timers. There is an extremely active site on the Escapees RV group. Here is the link if you are interested: https://www.rvnetwork.com/forum/32-hdt/ (https://www.rvnetwork.com/forum/32-hdt/)
I have followed their site and group for years as I had a truck conversion after my bus conversion. They are a knowledgeable group and really help each other like this group does.
-
Logging roads are no problem, I'm talking main haul roads, not right of way roads. I haul logs and my MC7 goes up and down bush roads with no problem. I wish my log truck handled that nice ,... read... smooooth. Know your limit! Right?
-
I have followed their site and group for years as I had a truck conversion after my bus conversion.
Tell us more about HDT+ 5er versus a coach ?
-
Logging roads are no problem, I'm talking main haul roads, not right of way roads. I haul logs and my MC7 goes up and down bush roads with no problem. I wish my log truck handled that nice ,... read... smooooth. Know your limit! Right?
What is a "right of way" road ? What is a bush road ? Width, surface, grade of each ?
Have you ever spun out on a logging road ? Any trouble on the switchbacks ?
-
I can't imagine there are that many RV parks that would allow, have room for, or could stand for that much noise, without complaints...
-
I can't imagine there are that many RV parks that would allow, have room for, or could stand for that much noise, without complaints...
My long time friend in Idaho build trucks conversions longer that rig and you see his rigs in the higher end RV parks 53ft long coach + a 30 ft stacker trailer behind some of his
www.powerhousecoach.com check those out
-
Tell us more about HDT+ 5er versus a coach ?
My truck conversion was a truck conversion motorhome, not a 5er hauler.
-
It all depends on where you go...
Some campgrounds, especially newer ones, will easily be able to handle longer rigs, even with long trailers. State and National parks will be different, and many will have length limits, tighter road, etc.
Go out east, around the Great Lakes, or to any older campgrounds and you'll likely find it more difficult with a longer coach and/or trailer. We been to some older campgrounds that have added "big rig" spots, but not all are really conducive to getting in/out easily. Sometimes it's nothing more than a few spots added to an old empty field, sometimes you have to access the longer spots through very tight/narrow campground roads.
Long story short, you need to do your homework if you have a longer rig and want to go to a park or campground.
-
I notice Wally World has stopped overnight camping at stores now that it was always allowed,the first time I ever saw that on company owed stores on leased stores it was a toss up,a little side note if you lose your senior pass to federal parks that card cost $80.00 now
-
Walmart parking has become a victim of lobbyist and local ordinances. Many localities have created ordinances to prohibit it, and many nearby campgrounds have lobbied to prohibit it.
There is no company-wide policy on the issue. Each Walmart sets its own policy.
We're at a Walmart as I type this, having spent the night. There was no hesitation when I asked about staying.
I read that the percentage of Walmarts allowing overnight parking have dropped from over 70% to about 50%. Fewer, but still a good number of potential overnight spots.
-
Walmart parking has become a victim of lobbyist and local ordinances. Many localities have created ordinances to prohibit it, and many nearby campgrounds have lobbied to prohibit it.
There is no company-wide policy on the issue. Each Walmart sets its own policy.
We're at a Walmart as I type this, having spent the night. There was no hesitation when I asked about staying.
I read that the percentage of Walmarts allowing overnight parking have dropped from over 70% to about 50%. Fewer, but still a good number of potential overnight spots.
Some W/M are adding RV parking in areas away from the stores I read in a news letter like 500 across the US ,it has always been a policy when Sam was alive for RV;s to park at the stores ,Rv.s have gotten heavier over the years and Walmart is trying to keep those off the light duty paving ,the heavy duty paving is in the truck access only and they do not want RV's blocking that area.There was a few of the super centers that were built that had 15amp electrail,water and dump stations people abused those so W/M closed those areas the last one just closed in Twin Falls Id I noticed when I pulled in to dump.There no ordinances here and they have closed both to overnight parking because in the winter time people abused the policy and would spend all winter in the parking lots
-
Self inflicted wound...
Selfish bus life types ruin it for the rest.
And the facebook groups just speed it all up.
Don't be sharing your favorite gems online. Share 'em with your friends, but don't divulge these locations to every goof that reads these boards.
Or they'll be gone too...
You never saw the old generations sharing their stuff like this...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
-
I'm amazed at how many young people have given up careers to do the vanlife/buslife thing.
I don't get it, at all. It might be fun to do for a few months, maybe a year. But full time at 30 years old in a van with no shower and toilet ?
-
I understand it. What is today's poverty level? When two people cannot earn enough to rent or own their own living quarters. How many are below that level today? Far too many. And what does that say for a single person? The individual without a college degree and many with one are now below the poverty level. Who would willingly want to live within such a system?
Jim
-
I understand it. What is today's poverty level? When two people cannot earn enough to rent or own their own living quarters. How many are below that level today? Far too many. And what does that say for a single person? The individual without a college degree and many with one are now below the poverty level. Who would willingly want to live within such a system?
Jim
What is the poverty level ? raising 6 kids I think I was below that level for years
-
Did you have your own living quarters? That is the new (and possibly old) standard today. It is now common for multiple individuals to have to band together in order to even be able to rent a small dwelling that is not large enough for their number. The cost of quarters has risen astronomically.
Middle class is still defined by a single income family that can afford their own home. Low income by the same conditions in a double income family. Poverty is the inability to meet that minimum standard. Our number of poor is steadily increasing and it is not due to birth rates and immigration.
Jim
-
Which desert areas allow grey water dumping ? I was reading up on Quarzite and it seems they do not allow grey water dumping.
-
Which desert areas allow grey water dumping ? I was reading up on Quarzite and it seems they do not allow grey water dumping.
Best to make plans for NOT being able to dump gray to ground. Then you can sing a song of joy when you can and still be able to handle places you can't. Having the ability to dump to the ground when possible would just give you more options.
I see some that build (mainly van conversions but some buses as well) assuming that they'll always be able to dump gray to ground. Since that's not always possible, they inevitably end up in a tight spot.
-
My prediction?
Dumping anything on the ground is going to be tightened right up.
Too many wingnuts out there dumping everything...
The wise busnut will design their coach to be self contained, and any facility to dump to ground will be kept innocent and hidden.
The authorities are not as hindered as they were when the hippies were loose in the wild... the clamp down on this free spirited behaviour will continue...
Be happy, plan to tank all your waste. Anything better than that is a bonus.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
-
La Posa LTVA at Quartzsite doesn't allow gray water dumping they have dump stations and water included in your parking fee from Sept to April, you don't need to dumping on the ground there so they get a little pissed when people do.The Mojave (Mohave) desert covers 25,000 miles it depends on the person over the district where you can dump or not.Me I live here in the desert and don't dump the gray water because of our high water table believe it or it's 13 ft average in the desert here
-
That's a pretty high water table.
I felt that 120 gallons of waste capacity was reasonable and with the idea of being able to overflow the gray tank to the black tank with an inverted trap makes it seem a bit more so. And a mostly concealed gray water drain could help at times. I don't really anticipate getting out west very much, and I don't really foresee the water restrictions out there moving east. Totally different conditions that western residents often have a little trouble understanding. I've lived in both places and here, grass and such is supposed to be a very bright and verdant green, not a sort of dry brown. If you give it water it really doesn't care because it has all it needs already and sometimes too much, whereas out west if you give it water it turns from brown to green and gives you away. As a result people in the east just don't get excited about a little water on the ground. It tends to be everywhere anyway, there's really no way to control it when it simply falls out of the sky at regular intervals.
jim
-
That's a pretty high water table.
I felt that 120 gallons of waste capacity was reasonable and with the idea of being able to overflow the gray tank to the black tank with an inverted trap makes it seem a bit more so. And a mostly concealed gray water drain could help at times. I don't really anticipate getting out west very much, and I don't really foresee the water restrictions out there moving east. Totally different conditions that western residents often have a little trouble understanding. I've lived in both places and here, grass and such is supposed to be a very bright and verdant green, not a sort of dry brown. If you give it water it really doesn't care because it has all it needs already and sometimes too much, whereas out west if you give it water it turns from brown to green and gives you away. As a result people in the east just don't get excited about a little water on the ground. It tends to be everywhere anyway, there's really no way to control it when it simply falls out of the sky at regular intervals.
jim
yep people think nothing about washing their cars.truck and buses with water,soap and chemicals but yet here we are talking about gray water on the ground lol funny you ever notice people camping in tents where they dump their water after dishes or bathing,most have signs telling people do not wash dishes in water supply areas you take the water wash dishes and dump it
-
Yeah I'm not trying to say it isn't a good idea to send gray water through the regular sewage treatment. It is. And if regular hookups are available it's very inconsiderate not to use them. Then there's the whole pollution/protect the planet argument which we have proven valid by reducing auto tailpipe emissions. Overall I think the inhabited world is a much cleaner place than it ever has been in human history. So we are on the right track at long last. It behooves us to stay the course.
However. If 4 days remain on the site stay, the waste tanks are nearing capacity, the wife wants to take a shower and it's possible to inconspicuously drain enough gray water away to let that happen would you tell her no? Sorry man, I'm just not that brave.
Jim
-
Yeah I'm not trying to say it isn't a good idea to send gray water through the regular sewage treatment. It is. And if regular hookups are available it's very inconsiderate not to use them. Then there's the whole pollution/protect the planet argument which we have proven valid by reducing auto tailpipe emissions. Overall I think the inhabited world is a much cleaner place than it ever has been in human history. So we are on the right track at long last. It behooves us to stay the course.
However. If 4 days remain on the site stay, the waste tanks are nearing capacity, the wife wants to take a shower and it's possible to inconspicuously drain enough gray water away to let that happen would you tell her no? Sorry man, I'm just not that brave.
Jim
It's no big deal here some park people will ask you to use a hose to water other trees they call it but to me it is a bush they just don't want you dumping in one spot the best I can figure out with the hose deal
-
The wise busnut will design their coach to be self contained, and any facility to dump to ground will be kept innocent and hidden.
The authorities are not as hindered as they were when the hippies were loose in the wild... the clamp down on this free spirited behaviour will continue...
Be happy, plan to tank all your waste.
I agree. I'll plumb in a grey water diverter in case I can dump that directly to ground. Simplifies plumbing greatly and only 1 waste tank instead of 2.
How big should my fresh and waste tanks be ? I do a lot of no hookup camping and will be doing a lot of boondocking.
How does one stop smells from coming up from the tanks into the coach when driving on rough roads due to the water in the traps sloshing out ?
-
They have waterless P traps for RV"s my Country Coach has the weird looking things
-
They have waterless P traps for RV"s my Country Coach has the weird looking things
Thanks ! I've never heard of them.
Where do bus conversions run the plumbing vent stack ? To the roof ?
-
Here's what the waterless P trap looks like, as well as the old one it replaced. The change freed up lots of usable space under the kitchen sink. Apologies for the rotated photo.
Most modern conversions will vent plumbing similarly to residential plumbing with a roof-top vent. But, it's not mandatory.
The third photo is the back of our water/waste tanks. The two 1/2" lines running out the top and down through the bay floor are all the venting we have. Surprisingly, we've never had an issue with water flow or waste tank venting odors.
-
Thanks for sharing that !
Where did you get those tanks ? I like how clean that setup is.
-
The tanks were made by Custom Coach in 1974 for this coach. They made their own - the basic construction is 3/8 poly sheeting heat welded together. There are partial baffles inside to give the sides strength and prevent them from pushing out. The fittings are bronze flanges simply screwed to the 3/8" material with machine screws using soft rubber gaskets. Only thing I've done is change the gaskets and repair one top seam that looked like it was never properly welded at the initial assembly.
-
This stuff ?
https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=41935
-
Asking about tank vents here is opening a can of worms, but away we go again...
First off, the best way to control tank odor is to introduce oxygen to the tank. Do that and you get aerobic decomposition. Don't and you get anaerobic decomposition which is just stinky and produces heavier than air aromatic gasses. Those stack up in the tank and tank vents so that when the toilet gate is opened the weight of the gases in the vent line, acting as a stand pipe, forces the gases in the tank back up and out of the toilet. It can get worse when moving due to the pressure differential between inside and outside.
With that knowledge it is a relatively simple task to design a system that will solve the problem but it may not be possible to have a passive solution that works under all conditions.
Jim
-
Richard
I like your tank level monitoring system
I can see the levels , wish mine were that clear
if I use the grey tank rinse sprayer I can sometimes see the level of the tank without using the tank monitoring system
fresh is easy to see but the black tank is black so no way
all my tank monitoring system work but it sure would be easy just to look at the tanks like yours
dave
-
This stuff ?
https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=41935
Looks the same - don't really know which acronym they used for mine. Before buying online, check locally. Most areas have at least one commercial plastics supply house, and they usually sell retail as well. Often then have a selection of inexpensive end cuts and such.
Richard
I like your tank level monitoring system
I can see the levels , wish mine were that clear
Thanks. I like it too. We always run off the tank using the electric pump, never directly from city water. Both tanks are identical in capacity. Since we never fill the fresh all the way to the top, there is no way we'll ever accidentally overfill the waste tank, unless lots of canned beverages are being flushed, of course.
-
1 sheet of that material could make a tank approximately 19 x19 x 48, not including baffles. Which is approximately 75 gallons.
The material description says it is very weldable.
Richard: could you give us more info on your tanks ?
-
Not much excitement to my tanks, but I'll try.
They are each approx. 20W x 43L x 25H. My calculations show roughly a 90-gallon usable capacity.
They are made of poly material 3/8" thick, each with 3 internal baffles. The baffles are only about 20" tall in the fresh water tank, a little less in the waste tank, and alternate positions in the tank (lower/higher/lower). There are about 4-5 inches below each baffle to allow movement of the waste in the waste tank, less so in the freshwater tank.
The connections are made with bronze flanges screwed to the poly with machine screws. Rubber gaskets make the seal. I redid the gaskets recently using silicone gasket material and a very thin coating of silicone gasket making compound (food safe for the freshwater tank).
I've attached a few more photos that might show the connections to the tanks better. Since these were taken, I've redone the gaskets on the flanges for the fresh water outlet and the waste water valve connection.
If you have specific questions I'd be happy to answer.
-
Thank you.
-
"Standard truck axle" means something different to you than it does to someone looking to swap one... they are upside down, and not every axle can be rolled over.
Put a regular truck axle under your bus, and it will have multiple speeds in reverse...
The guys who were trying to get different gears back a bunch of years ago, to match their drivetrain swaps, had to do a lot of research and find a bemused representative at the axle manufacturers to give them a hand.
A stock locker would be nice.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
BTDT! Not by putting a regular truck rear end either. But we replaced the third member in our S217 once and don't ask me how but we managed to put it in backwards! I don't know if it was because it was a Kassboro rear end or what I have NEVER and I mean NEVER seen a rear differential go in but one way before (or maybe I was just lucky and always got it in the right way by accident before)
Anyway it was a Saturday afternoon when my dad, uncle an I finished putting it in and dad told me that he and Robert would finish it up an I should go up the the house and get cleaned up for my run the coach had to go out on in about 3 hrs!
I'd no sooner got ready to step in the shower when my phone rang, I looked an it was dad so I answered it. Dad said "If you haven't got in the shower yet you might want to wait and come back down here. Robert went to back it out of the shop and it's got 6 reverse gears and one forward gear!"
So I put my dirty clothes back on and back to the shop I went, I was sure Setra had somehow screwed up and sold me the wrong rear end. I was furious! As dad, Robert an I were discussing it I went over to one we'd pulled out and examined it. I looked it over really hard and told them ya know "It just might be possible it's upside down, don't ask me how but it looks like it's possible!"
They both looked at me like I had 3 eyes and said "WHAT? How is that even POSSIBLE!"
I showed them how it was the same all the way around with no differences in the bolt pattern or shape or anything different at all except there was a small "hump" for the ring gear off center in the rear of it.
So of into the pit I went and sure enough the hump was on the opposite side than it had been before we'd pulled the original one out, I was lucky to remember that from all the times I'd looked at it while servicing it before.
So I asked Robert if he minded going home and getting cleaned up to drive it tonight while dad and I flip it. Wasn't NO WAY I was ASKING dad to drive that night as he an mom had plans that night! (or should I say mom had plans) It was their 48th wedding anniversary!
Robert agreed and took off dad an I went straight to work pulling the axles pulling the rear end and breaking the "come along" we were using to suspend it in the air from the bus since the ground was 6 feet below in the pit! I quickly grabbed the oil barrel we kept in the pit for oil changes and slid it over under the rear end and released the come along, BOOM the rear end slammed down on the barrel and smashed the barrel on one side, but it stayed up!
We searched for another come along and I told dad I'd thrown the other one away (we were hoping between the 2 bad ones we could make one that would work long enough to do the job)
Dad jumped in the truck and went an got another come along while I stayed and got things ready to shove it all back together as soon as he got back. Our bus cleaner had showed up and was helping me get ready when I reached down and grabbed the rear end picked it up and flipped it over and put it back down (and I'm pretty sure that's when I damaged my back too).
Chuckie's eyes were the size of golf balls and he said "Wow remind me if I ever piss you off to keep running! How much does that weigh any way?" Well I'd just paid for shipping so I looked on the shipping tag 398 #'s! I didn't say anything I just showed him the tag. (but 20+/- of that was the heavy pallet they used too!)
Any way dad got back and we went straight to work and got it back in just in time. I backed it out of the shop and Chuckie did a walk through just as Robert pulled back up.
Robert asked "Did ya test drive it, to make sure it's OK?"
I told him "Yup sure did backed it out 75' turned and pulled up right here 25' so it's been tested 100' and it only has one reverse now, so I'm sure yer good to go!"
So yes I know at least with a Kassboro rear end it can be done!
Also no they are not regular truck rear ends the housing are different and have built in supports for the coach so they don't break and fold in half. Also the whole thing is heavier duty than the standard road tractor so one out of a "heavy haul" truck might be the same, but I have BTDT to with trying to use a junkyard differential in an MCI and it didn't worK!
OH BTW there is a certain Eagle in NV that has a heavy duty dump truck rear end in it was well as air ride, custom tag axle and a pretty yellow motor that was built by the late Sonnie Gray!
OH and Brian your 43' coach is much better designed for rough/off road use as they were mainly designed for use in South America where the roads are not as good as the US!
Someguy you do as you wish but I wouldn't take a E or J model very far off a public roadway and I sure wouldn't take one on the logging roads around here!
;D BK ;D
-
I think they made a big deal out of nothing. A good driver could have maneuvered out of there without the chit-chat. There was a camera at the fifth-wheel, she was not needed. I doubt the driver had tractor-trailer experience.
It was really tight but doable. He was favoring the right side too much IMO. About 4-5 feet of pavement on the left. I would have been over there more and at the last second turned fast watching and just missing the right gate. Might have needed a 3-4 inch back up but it looks doable.