BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Rockabilly on September 07, 2020, 04:05:57 PM
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Hi Everyone,
Our family is finally ready to take the plunge and become "1st Time Bus Owners", yaaaah ;D. We are excited to combine 2 hobbies, camping & classics. We have come across many buses hitting the market and were hoping perhaps someone on here would have some wisdom & guidance towards Buying a Bus for Newbs. Different Pro's & Cons of the different makes/models, Engines etc. Also when looking at older camperized units (45-67 era) what are things to look out for, as well as expected price points.
Looking forward to learning more about buses,
Kindest regards,
Drew & PJ
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Just hang around and be ready for more info than you can adsorb.
just do not ask about oil,or tires,or 35ft or 40 ft or45 ft.
and for gods sake do not ask about eagles gm or mci
lol lol but you have found the greatest bunch of people and bus info there is.
uncle ned
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Just hang around and be ready for more info than you can adsorb.
just do not ask about oil,or tires,or 35ft or 40 ft or45 ft.
and for gods sake do not ask about eagles gm or mci
lol lol but you have found the greatest bunch of people and bus info there is.
uncle ned
You forgot OIL! Always need to find out which OIL is best!
;D BK ;D
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Drew, Besides mechanical problems, RUST is one of the big ones. Depending on an older 1 million mile bus, or a newer 3 million mile frame, there are specific areas to look. MCIs, Eagles, GMs and others also have specific areas to look for rust, but there are common areas to look. So attend a bus nut Rally, ask questions, busnuts are friendly, read the two bus nut online forums and When you start the search for real, find a bus nut near you and bring him with you, When you look at a specific bus. When you start to like one brand over another, leaning towards a 35' to 45', tour with the family or without, drive thru mountains or flatlands, ice area or desert, all these will contribute towards the most comfortable ease into the best fit for you, lvmci...
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Here is a list that I've compiled so far for E/J4500s. Apply as needed to what you are looking at.
1) What brakes does it have? DLisa and EX225 are good. Other brake types: ask your local coach service company about parts and local knowledge working on them.
2) Does it use gold bricks or multiplex system? Gold bricks are hard to find and expensive.
3) If it is a DPF equipped bus, get the service history on the DPF and SCR. Has it been washed? Replaced? Deleted? Then pull the codes on the engine to read how plugged the DPF is and when it was last regened. If you can, force a manual regen and read the plugged percentage after.
4) Check engine oil pressure at idle when hot.
5) Drain a small amount of oil out of the crankcase when the engine is cold and has been sitting. Check for antifreeze. Send some away for sampling. This is especially important on the Cat C13, which is know to leak anti freeze into the oil which causes crank issues if not caught.
6) Watch engine blow by when at idle and at max RPM when cold and hot.
7) Inspect tires. Note the tread depth, condition, size and date codes. Make sure the bus has the right size tires (11s and 12s versus 315s) and make sure they are all the same. Verify which ones are recaps and which ones are virgin. Note any abnormal tread wear, especially on the steering tires as that often indicates steering or suspension issues.
8) Note when the bus last passed a commercial vehicle inspection. See if the inspector's notes are available. Search the bus's DOT number if it is available.
9) Inspect under the radiators and hoses for coolant leaks. Squeeze the radiator hoses when cold to see how pliable they are.
10) Inspect the shock absorbers for leaks, rust, etc.
11) Inspect hubs for leaks.
12) Check that all lights on the bus work.
13) Time how long it takes for the bus to build air pressure. Shut off the engine. How fast does it lose air pressure ? Walk around the bus and listen for air leaks. Best not to do this near a freeway where it is noisy.
14) Check all the windows in the bus. If it has dual pane windows, check for condensation. Replacement windows are expensive.
15) Check the baggage compartment and underneath for rust. Most E/Js will be entirely rust free in this area.
16) Jack up the front axle. Get a bar and pry the bottom of each steer wheel up and down. Note any play. If there is play, it is probably the kingpins, which will probably need to be replaced. Pry the wheel side to side. This is steering gear play. It will need to be fixed to pass inspection.
17) With the engine running and the bus stationary, turn the steering wheel to get a feel for free play in the steering system. I think 1.75" is allowed. Not sure. The less the better.
17) Check the disk brake wear indicators on each wheel.
18) Check the condition of the air bags. Look for leaks and dry rot.
19) Check that both alternator lights go out when the engine is running. Check the battery voltage at idle to make sure charging is happening.
20) Inspect the batteries. Note the date codes. Wouldn't hurt to do a hydrometer and/or load test.
21) Check the ABS light goes out. If not, pull the codes using the dash board. The bus probably won't pass inspection with an active ABS error light. Any errors will need to be fixed.
22) Inspect the front and rear bogies. MCI calls bogies the steel that the front and rear axle are mounted to. Bogies are made from mild steel, not SS like the baggage compartment area. Look for excessive rust, cracks and repairs. Visually check all the suspension bushings.
23) Check that the coolant heater fires up.
24) Check that the bus has a spare tire in the spare tire holder, date code, air pressure.
25) Check the brakes and steering on a test drive. Watch for smoke when accelerating. Watch engine coolant temp.
26) Inspect all the engine accessory drive belts.
27) Inspect the fan clutch for play. Look for oil leaks on the fan angle drive gear box.
28) If it is an E with a steerable tag axle, check that the tag axle steers properly when the front wheels are turned. Bus probably has to be rolling a bit to allow this to happen.
29) Remove the air cleaner. Reach through the filter canister to the air intake hose going to the engine. Is there any dust ?
30) Observe any new paint on the engine to get clues for what parts have been replaced. Idlers, turbocharger, water pump, head ? Look at the engine cradle bolts. If they are new or super clean, the engine/transmission assembly has probably been out recently.
31) Check the engine and transmission serial number against what MCI has on file. Unmatching serial numbers mean they have been replaced.
32) Check if the OTR A/C system works.
33) Thoroughly inspect the bus wiring for hacks. You want it to be all stock and working. Nothing worse than fixing someone else's hacks.
34) Pull ECM fault codes. Verify that the ECM mileage matches the odometer mileage.
35) Get any and all services records that are available for the bus. If it is being sold at a used bus yard, find out who last ran it and call them to ask about the bus.
36) Check that the tag axle lifts properly.
37) Crawl under the bus (while safely blocked up) and check for oil leaking out of the flywheel bellhousing. Oil leaking here is probably due to a bad rear main seal on the engine.
38) Inspect the drive shaft for play and any obvious issues.
I left out testing the transmission. This is an evolving list as I learn more about these buses. The MCI maintenance manual is really good at explaining things. It's available free online.
Good luck.
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Hi Drew and PJ,
As an owner of one of the oldest busses on this board, I would say it is a good idea to get out and go to a bus rally. With the year range you are looking for, find a GM or Flxible rally to attend. You can talk to owners of each specific model and find the ins and outs of each.
I bought my bus in 2015 and joined the Western GM Coach club to find out more about the bus I purchased. I was informed that I was the club expert on PG2904 series busses, as no one had ever seen one before.
Matt
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Hi Drew and PJ,
As an owner of one of the oldest busses on this board, I would say it is a good idea to get out and go to a bus rally. With the year range you are looking for, find a GM or Flxible rally to attend. You can talk to owners of each specific model and find the ins and outs of each.
I bought my bus in 2015 and joined the Western GM Coach club to find out more about the bus I purchased. I was informed that I was the club expert on PG2904 series busses, as no one had ever seen one before.
Matt
Matt did your PG2904 come from GM with the 4-71 ? I thought the PG was a gasoline engine coach
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Clifford, yea the PG2904 came with a Buick straight 6 according to the maintenance book. I was told mine was changed to the 4-71 and 5 speed during to conversion in the 60s. The PD2903 is the same bus but had a factory 4-71 and 4 speed.
Matt
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Matt,,, do you think the engine and trans change had anything to do with climbing the Utah mountains with passengers.?? Or was the change after that ??>>>Dan
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Not one of you has contributed a single thing to this thread except to say watch for rust and attend a busnuts event. And you hijack it with your discussion of the PG2904. :^
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The only thing that I can say is how adventurous are you?
Do you want to start with a seated bus and do everything from scratch or are you looking for a bus that is already converted and that you can start camping with to decide how you would modify it?
I do think that I over spent on my bus, but it appeared to be a fleeting opportunity and I had only looked at three buses total which were in the following shape:
1. Totally gutted with no windows installed, but supposedly on hand.
2. Converted bus but the bathroom doors was rough painted plywood and a window air conditioner hanging out the drivers side of the bus. I had asked for a cold start, but engine was warm when I got there.
3. Bus that never did commercial service and came from the factory as a motor home. Was still a bit rough, but hey wasn't afraid to show to friends as project to work on.
Key thing is paper work, what kind of servicing has been done and how old are the tires. Be ready to spend 10-15K immediately after you take it home.
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Someguy I asked the question since the bus model was out there already,I am sorry you got but hurt after your long winded post which was good BTW but I don't think the guy is looking for a new bus, if you take time to read a 1945 to 1967 bus your post was a waste of time because he doesn't want a newer bus with all the crap
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Someguy I asked the question since the bus model was out there already,I am sorry you got but hurt after your long winded post which was good BTW but I don't think the guy is looking for a new bus, if you take time to read a 1945 to 1967 bus your post was a waste of time because he doesn't want a newer bus with all the crap
Which is why I prefaced it with "Apply as needed to what you are looking at." The bus he will buy has tires, right ? Shocks ? A radiator ? What did you contribute ?
"But" hurt ? LOL. Not the least.
Matt did your PG2904 come from GM with the 4-71 ? I thought the PG was a gasoline engine coach
WTH does this have to do with a newbie asking about what to look for in a buying a bus ? Did he say he was buying a PG2904 or did you guys just want to start a humblebrag conversation ?
And how practical is it to tell everyone that they should travel half way across the country to talk to a few supposed "experts" at the next event, which will happen who knows when, given COVID ? Why aren't those supposed experts contributing something to this thread ? They seem to have endless energy when it comes time to bitch about something they don't agree with.
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Welcome aboard Rockabilly to the Busnut community. Some of the most visually exciting coaches out there are the ones are of the vintage you are interested in. keep on the hunt and be sure to post the ones that peek your interest here so the members can chime in and give you plenty of pointers on it. What area are you located in for starters? There may be a busnut located near you or near the bus that may be able to help out with a Pre-Purchase inspection. Wish you all the best in your search.
Van.
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Hey SomeDude, you need to cool your jets son. There's a nice lil' link at the bottom of every post for you to press where you can lodge a complaint ;). That's how it works around these parts, other wise just change the channel.
Happy bus shopping.
Van.
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There are LOTS of threads about inspecting a new-to-you bus for potential problems, including some with checklists and diagrams showing potential problem points for particular models.
When I first came to this forum, I spent many hours reading through all the threads which were even remotely related to what I was looking for. I still had lots of questions, but at least I knew a little more than nothing and could ask better questions.
There are many existing bus conversions out there for sale at great prices right now, some in excellent condition. Interior design is relatively cheap/easy to upgrade, mechanical systems not so much.
If you are unfamiliar with inspecting a bus, you will want someone with you that is if at all possible. Or, try and find a shop which works on buses to do an inspection on the bus with it up on the rack to eliminate some expensive surprises. A few hundred spent on an inspection can help you avoid a money pit which has no hope to ever be safe to drive.
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I think your realistic price range of how much you are willing to spend on a Coach should be 1st. Before you start a conversion.THEN, we can give you a better idea what to look for. 35 foot models are fewer and older. Majority of them are 40 foot. Now newer ones are common in 45 foot models.
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Hey SomeDude, you need to cool your jets son. There's a nice lil' link at the bottom of every post for you to press where you can lodge a complaint ;). That's how it works around these parts, other wise just change the channel.
Happy bus shopping.
Van.
Sound advice, but SomeDude/Someguy/Paininthebuttguy, might not listen.
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Drew, you have a fellow Manitoban about 300 km from you. His name on this board is "Jim eh", Maybe he will chime in.
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Sound advice, but SomeDude/Someguy/Paininthebuttguy, might not listen.
Someguy should check the amount of silent readers on the Board.
And consider himself lucky that he is able to type his thoughts at length.
Many busnuts are not interested in typing their thoughts, but they will bend your ear for many a long night, with hands-on, real experience, not $#!% they regurgitate with no personal validation.
Thorough research, find a seller that will put up with this days long inspection...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
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Dan, The change was made sometime after its time in Utah.
Somedood, the experts have replied to Drew. I personally know luvrbus and Van, and between them they have more
than half a century owning, fixing, driving, and coverting buses, both privately and commercially. Also, you were the first to hijack this thread with your discussion of a E/J4500s, which had nothing to do with Drew buying a 1945-1967 classic bus. You are the one who seems butt hurt that no one wants to go into a deep discussion of that bus with you.
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In my experience budget has quite a lot to do with practical expectations when inspecting a potential bus purchase candidate and how much the seller will put up with. "You get what you pay for" Not always true ;) The question is how much $$$$ & sweat equity are you willing to invest after your purchase.
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Sound advice, but SomeDude/Someguy/Paininthebuttguy, might not listen.
Me thinks him listens, it's hearing that is the?? Is that even possible :-\
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Me thinks him listens, it's hearing that is the?? Is that even possible :-\
Van, you da expert on boulder, living in a city full of them. I always thought boulders didn't have ears, do they listen by vibration?
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I always thought boulders didn't have ears, do they listen by vibration?
LOL! :)
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Somedude or whoever you are I know to YOU I am just a newbie that just showed up, but let me tell you I know a whole lot of these guys that you bad mouth from here on the boards and from rallys personally.
You know your not the first "google" or "youtube" expert we've had on these boards and I am 100% sure you won't be the LAST!
Now I am just a nobody that knows nothing and a sure idiot for sure for owning 14 buses at one time, but I have had a little real world experience and one thing I can tell you fer sure is that if you'd tone it down a bit and not feel you know everything (because we all know it must be true because you read it on the internet!)
You could actually learn a little from ALL the others hear on the board but I can tell you fer sure that "Yoda" and several others hear have forgotten more than any of the rest of us here on the board knows and even as much as he might have forgotten he still knows more than the rest of us including YOU!
On top of that if he doesn't know the answer to something he KNOWS the people to ask as he has vast friends in all places.
Thank you and have a great day !
Signed new guy
;D BK ;D
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And how practical is it to tell everyone that they should travel half way across the country to talk to a few supposed "experts" at the next event, which will happen who knows when, given COVID ? Why aren't those supposed experts contributing something to this thread ? They seem to have endless energy when it comes time to bitch about something they don't agree with.
Well, "someguy", the supposed "experts" have been talking to you, including the Supreme Yoda. If you don't realize who he is, then you have not been paying attention at all. Be sure to wear a "someguy" identification badge at the next bus event you go to so everybody can give you the benefit of their knowledge. :o
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I guess if you have to explain why you need to go to a bus rally to a busnut, they're really no Busnut at all. Says alot in my book. "Nuff said"
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Budget is the deal on most purchases or is in my books. Get one cheap and wrap up 10 or 15 grand with tires , batteries and such. Might find a hell of a deal on a newer coach.
Like mine. ;D
Hope you find a good un.
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They are all "good ones"......until they break..>>>Dan
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Drew and PJ,
You got a lot of good advice so far for beginning your search for a bus, I hope you are able to sort through that and the B.S. that when on in this thread. I do suggest you to come to Quartzite in January, within a matter of weeks you have a Flxible, GM, and Eagles rally. All made buses in the time frame you are looking at. There is also the BCI rally where you can see all makes of buses. Go to the BCM homepage and click on events to find these and other rallys and to check on any cancelations.
Matt
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Hi Everyone,
Wow first off, let me say thank you for all the replies we received. To be Frank, we are all adults here and whether a person interjects irrelevant information on new buses, or irrelevant information to there own buses, the purpose is of course to gain any and all valuable information all the while encouraging "bus related conversation". We would like to personally thank everyone whom is kind enough to reach out and answer back regardless of what direction that response was related to. I have no doubt there are many "how to buy a bus" threads already in existence on here that we will over time stumble upon and also gain value from. However we thought starting a new thread made the most sense and motivated us to reach out to others and get ourselves actively engaged in a bus related topic relevant to our current situation.
To answer a few questions we are sticking to a budget of around 15000 Cdn(11000 usd). There is zero interest in new buses, or square looking buses, when my wife gets a vision in her head there is no arguing.(You guys should realize by now that there is no winning in an argument with a woman) It has to have a nice rounded look and of all irrelevant things, she needs to know a detailed history. The bus she is looking at right now is a 1965 MCI -MCC-5A 35ft - previously converted(rather odd older conversion - washing machine mounted in shower wall?!?) but has had some minor interior updates already(new flooring, reupholstered seats). It has had a lot of structural/mechanical work, and was safetied 3 years ago. The fellow whom has it, already put 24grand cdn into this unit doing a lot of required work to get it to pass safety including new yolks in the tire rod ends, brakes, used oil pan, rebuilt clutch, bearings, rear & front brake drums, steering ujoint, washer pump, Battery, and so forth... The list goes on of what this previous owner has invested into this unit, and he has provided shop bills outlining all work completed, as well as a copy of the safety completed 3 years ago in which this unit passed. Unit is for sale for 15 grand the top of our budget.
He said he fell in love with the bus when he bought it but his wife has hated it from the get go and did not approve of the purchase. He also provided a walk through video of when he first saw the bus and yes in the video he manages to capture his wife's dislike for the unit. This fellow is still working on this bus present day. We aren't very happy it has a propane Genny and the guy currently is repairing the generator. Having said that perhaps that is a minor thing as the guy did state you can still plug the unit in and run everything. Even though this unit is for sale it is apparent this fellow does truly love this bus, and he is still continuing to do work on it, including getting a custom welded up slider rack built for the genny to make it easy to pull out and work on it/maintain it when needed.
So for all you bus experts & enthusiasts if any of you have any insight into a 1965 MCI - MCC-5A that would be a huge help.
My wife being the person she is researches into the history of everything and with us being Manitoban's the fact that MCI itself was founded in Winnipeg Manitoba my wife is all for promoting an original MB born company. Realizing the build itself was probably done elsewhere(ND) We have classic vehicles and already own '72 Boler camper that was a product of the Winnipeg factory itself.
Looking forward to hearing back from any and all whom would like to respond,
Kindest regards,
Drew & PJ
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Ah ha! the first find! Great post drew great bus. There are a few owners/past owners here I'm sure will chime in. All the best!
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I bought my 64 MC5A this February. As far as I know the only difference between the MC and the MCC is made in the US vs Canada. Here's a couple things I would recommend looking at.
The air bags and air frame: The air bags on the 5A are pressurized through the metal frame above them. This frame can rust and leak. If it does you will have to order block off plates and new air bag bolts to fix the leak. This will solve the problem at the cost of a slightly harsher ride. I have never been in one with the block off plates but from what I understand it isn't too rough. It is a huge pain to do the job though.
Rust: As others have said look for it. I found quite a bit on my coach that will need some attending to. I'd have still bought it but if it were worse I'd be in a jam. Look in the baggage bays at the edges of the metal that supports the floor. Look in the engine bay at the corners. look behind the front bumper in the spare tire compartment.
Engine: Make sure it is cold when you get there. Ask the owner to not start it for a day beforehand. Listen to it start and ask about anything that stands out. It is a 2 stroke so it will be oily and possibly a bit smoky at first. It should clear up relatively quickly if the bus hasn't been sitting.
Overall it sounds like you're looking at a great deal. I bought my 5A for $4000 but it hasn't been maintained or driven much for 20 years. I am now having to do all those things you said were done and more. I am in full agreement with your wife on all the parts about the looks of this bus. It will not be the fastest thing on the road and it won't be the most efficient but it will be loads of fun.
Ps. If she picked it you can use that as an excuse to get her in the captains chair a bit more. My girlfriend has staunchly refused to even think about driving it...
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Send a note to Lostagain on this board. JC has a 5C and drove buses for years including the 5s. He is in Alberta, might know of one or two that are available.....also BC BusNuts might be able to help you out. We had a 68 5A and fulltimed in it for 12 years and loved the bus.....
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1965 MCI MCC-5A
8V71 With 4 Speed Spicer Manual Transmission
Thank you to everyone for the advice, we took the plunge and bought the old girl! Bringing her home in spring.
First time bus owners... Very exciting!
Drew, PJ & Family
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I am glad your got it! Looks good! 5s are some of my favorite buses. Drove lots of them in the 70s. We have owned ours for 10 years and love it. There will be a learning curve, and there will be some renovations and updates, but that seems to be a constant with any rig. Enjoy.
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the amount of money you plan to spend is formost. Second is a converted rig or one you plan to convert.Fuel mileage expectation is important.
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Fuel mileage expectation is important.
Truer words have yet to be spoken.
I plan on 4 mpg & am happy when I get to the fuel pump 8)
Tires are one of the bigger expenses - I found that mounting them myself wasn't as bad as I expected - I even saved a few bucks in the process !
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The 1948 ACF Brill I had had a 779 cu. in. 6 cylinder gas engine. Got about 4 1/2 mpg. Better after new cap, rotor and points. I then figured 5mpg and gained some fuel every fill up. No gage. Gas was 80 cents per gallon then, but money was small, so a fill up wasn't easy. Still enjoyed its use.
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I also have a 1965 5a, which has given good service. I do like it being a 35 footer. Everyone has their own preference but I would suggest getting one with an automatic (Allison) transmission. Ours had the Spicer to begin with and I never liked it. First gear and reverse are really way too high. We even hit hills that it could not climb without a good running start. We converted it to auto, which costed around 12k. The price difference between Spicer and Allison on a already converted bus is relatively small.
We have the 8v71 engine. It is a dependable workhorse, but you would be better off with a 6v92 since it has a turbo, which gives you more power and doesn't lose much horsepower at higher altitudes. Also the 6v92 is shorter so it can fit an Allison 740 behind it. The 8v71 can only fit an Allison 644 or 647, which can be adequate but not as tough as the 740 series. That said, I would not necessarily reject an 8v71/647 combo, but why not go for the better setup?
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Custom Coach conversions from new would have a 8V71 with a 740 -- and a very short driveshaft! :o
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Interesting, were the Custom Coaches with the 8v71 and 740 35' MC5's? The issue is not whether an 8v71 can take a 740. It is whether there is room for it in a MC5.
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Can't speak specifically for MCI conversions, but not every Custom Coach has an automatic transmission. All depended on what the original buyer spec'd out. Mine was converted on a brand-new shell, and shipped with the 8V71 and a Spice 4-speed manual.
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Interesting, were the Custom Coaches with the 8v71 and 740 35' MC5's? The issue is not whether an 8v71 can take a 740. It is whether there is room for it in a MC5.
A friend in Tennessee has a 35' MC5 with the 8v71, 740 from brand new. So, yes there is room for the 740.
It also still has the original stainless steel holding tanks :o
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A friend in Tennessee has a 35' MC5 with the 8v71, 740 from brand new. So, yes there is room for the 740.
It also still has the original stainless steel holding tanks :o
There not enough room for a 740 in a MCI 5 with a 8v71 without a lot of modifications the engine goes in on a angle to line up with the drop box,the drive line is out phase on a MCI 5 so the drive shaft has to be 13 inches long min.Would be interesting to see how Custom Coach did the conversion,I have saw the 740 behind the 6v92 N/A engines MCI offered
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I have a 1980 MC5C with the 8v71 and the MT644. It is quite peppy compared to the 40 footers I have driven.
I was surprised at how short the drive shaft was.
It originally had a manual trans that was removed before I bought the bus.
For handling and maneuverability you can't beat the 35's. (unless you go even shorter)
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Yep mine is a 5C also but with 6V71 and 644MT. 740 won't fit behind mine either they tell me.
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Yep mine is a 5C also but with 6V71 and 644MT. 740 won't fit behind mine either they tell me.
[/quo9te]
A 740 will fit Dave but no need for one behind a 6v71 the 644 is all they need,I use the 74o behind the 6v92 in the MCI 5
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What kind of a but do you have someguy?I must have missed it.
Regards
fred
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If you already have propane for cooking/heating then a propane generator makes sense.Nice thing about propane is you never have to worry about a fouled carb due to old gas. In a bus that's only used sparingly this is a big plus.Never have to worry about the old gas.
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That was one of the things I was thinking about. I definitely will have propane, it's just so versatile. And I hate electric range tops. So... range, furnace, water heater, fridge, and APU. Water heater and fridge also get 110v power. Oven could be 110, I don't care. But I might have to look for an old, old range to get good burners. Those dead center burners are crap.
Jim
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We power all our appliances on primarily propane. In redundancy seconds are the same or 12 volt. The only appliances that are 110 vac are 19 gal water heater (besides the 6 gal propane) toaster oven (besides the main propane oven), microwave, engine block heater, roof air conditioner. We prefer boondocking...
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Propane is good for boondocking, you can go a long time on it and it's easy to get more. In fact I once leased a 100# cylinder and had the truck coming by when I needed to switch it out. That, a 20 pounder and an automatic changeover valve had me warm and cosy all the time. But these days the type of certification matters and I have little patience for playing the cylinder swapping game except when I have to, so I'm going for the hard mounted larger capacity tank with the permanent certification. Maybe a couple of them, depending on configuration and capacity. Jim
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do-don't bus
Trying to eliminate propane, getting closer. Once residential 10cf refrig is in, only thing left on propane is the stove. Buying a portable induction to test if the performance in energy use and time to heat and temp adjustments, and heat pattern on pan/pot bottom.
If not for solar array and lithium bank, propane is number 1.
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Buying a portable induction to test if the performance in energy use and time to heat and temp adjustments, and heat pattern on pan/pot bottom.
Don -
A single, portable induction "hot plate" on 120vac will bring two quarts of water to a boil in under 4 minutes. Try that with propane!
We liked the single unit so much, we pulled out the regular electric cooktop and installed a two-burner induction model in the MCI. Great improvement, cooks much faster and uses less energy in the process. Would do the same in the Prevost in a heartbeat, but haven't been able to find one that will fit in the space available.
Just make sure a magnet will stick to your pots and pans if going induction.
RJ
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Two burner induction tops on 120v about the best you can do is 1800w the hobs single burner are 1400w on 120v.I bought a 2 burner 3200w on 220v and just divided the 2 burners into 120v for each burner.My coach is total electric except for the French made cook top I have no idea why the PO ordered it that way a propane cook top that needs 120v to light .I found a drop end that works at a restaurant supply and the price was good to
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Our bus came from Custom Coach with a two-burner electric cook top which sat in a stainless well. I pulled it out and now go between a one-burner induction unit from Ikea (about $60) and a portable one-burner propane stove. I swap them out depending on whether we are plugged in or dry camping. I won't run the generator for cooking unless absolutely necessary.
I was going to install a two-burner propane permanently connected to our tanks in the bus, and then just use the induction on the counter top when I wanted, but I've kind of gotten used to the single burner and like the ability to hide it away when not in use. Truth is, we rarely cook anything fancy that requires more than one burner, and on that rare time we do I just use the propane and the induction.
I'm starting to see some new coaches being sold with a combination unit - one induction and one propane built in. Seems like a nice compromise and gives you the best of both worlds, IMO.
https://www.trueinduction.com/Single-Burner-Single-Gas.aspx
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Permanent Atwood propane three burner/oven combo, electric toaster oven & microwave when on the pole or genny. Fridge is propane/110vac. We prominently boondock.
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https://www.trueinduction.com/Single-Burner-Single-Gas.aspx
That'd be a nice unit if it wasn't for the dead center propane burner. The people who design those things have lost their minds.
Jim
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That'd be a nice unit if it wasn't for the dead center propane burner. The people who design those things have lost their minds.
Jim
I still think it is a dumb idea for a propane cook top to need 120v to use like that unit
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You can buy these units in many different configurations and layouts. They also do not require 120vac to light the burners. Some use a battery ignition and all allow lighting with a match.
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You can buy these units in many different configurations and layouts. They also do not require 120vac to light the burners. Some use a battery ignition and all allow lighting with a match.
You still need power to open the valves ac or dc that is the RVIA standard for propane fridges and water heaters now too.I have only saw 1 of the combo units in a Newmar it was 110 v to lite just like our Jenn Air in the house
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Didn't know we were concerned with RVIA on our buses...
But, even so, the manual for these stoves clearly states that they can be match lit. No power needed.
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Didn't know we were concerned with RVIA on our buses...
But, even so, the manual for these stoves clearly states that they can be match lit. No power needed.
Try lighting one you better have a long wooden match,a propane torch works best,RVIA just sits the standard and manufactures follow those,the best propane fridges made used only a pilot light
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Can't hardly get good burners anymore. Some idiot in their infinite wisdom decided that it was OK to jet all the fire out past the edge of the pan. That may be fine for cheap manufacturing but that guy never used a gas burner in his life. Go look at a commercial burner sometime. The jets point up, they go all the way to the center, and there is plenty of room for airflow around them. This new design is just dumb and the sooner it goes away the better. They've sold them for far too long.
Jim
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how times have changed as when I bought this unit in 2016 mine has a battery electric starter that works amazing and as of yet I have never changed the battery ? burners work great , I removed the old 2 burner electric cook top . nice to use the propane cook top and not worry about 120 volts
https://www.amazon.com/Ramblewood-efficiency-cooktop-Natural-GC2-43N/dp/B005NTO93C
dave
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The magneto turn knob for ignition spark is cool, no power, no batteries ever.
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Dave, it's still got the dead center burners though. Stovetops made in the 70's had the good burners but then at some point they abandoned the old ways and "fixed" it. For our own good I guess.
Jim
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"bus buying guide" Ok we've beaten stove tops to death. Can we move to toilets now..😆
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LOL back to the RVIA sticker deal KOA is enforcing the sticker on converted buses , I had a can full that I have been giving to bus people that stay at KOA,I am not crazy about KOA but we do frequent the KOA in Williams AZ it is one of nicest KOA's in the USA it was voted number 1 by KOA
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can I get one?
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can I get one?
For you John I may have one left
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I've only once had the sticker mentioned when checking into a campground, but they didn't actually look at it. This was at a private campground, not a KOA. I've stayed at many KOAs and have never had a word said about a sticker.
Custom Coach never put RVIA stickers on their conversions, as far as I know. However, I did create one of my own which oddly looks similar to those. PM me for details. I incorporated the actual numbers from my coach into the design and used substitute verbiage. It basically states that my coach was built to all applicable Federal standards in place at the time of production - which I vaguely copied from the EPA placard on the engine. Looks great, but no one has ever asked to see it.
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I've only once had the sticker mentioned when checking into a campground, but they didn't actually look at it. This was at a private campground, not a KOA. I've stayed at many KOAs and have never had a word said about a sticker.
Custom Coach never put RVIA stickers on their conversions, as far as I know. However, I did create one of my own which oddly looks similar to those. PM me for details. I incorporated the actual numbers from my coach into the design and used substitute verbiage. It basically states that my coach was built to all applicable Federal standards in place at the time of production - which I vaguely copied from the EPA placard on the engine. Looks great, but no one has ever asked to see it.
Ok Richard check in Sam's Town in Vegas without one or both KOA's in Williams ,some KOA's won't even take a reservation without it
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I just did a bit of research on that certification. Looks like someone came up with a good way to extract money from the RV industry...
A private organization should not be issuing citations to another private organization over a sticker. From what I have seen of stick built RVs I'd say its a sham for sure.
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KOA dropped the 10 year rule and enacted the RVIA goose egg
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KOA dropped the 10 year rule and enacted the RVIA goose egg
"Badges? We don't need no stinkin badges"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OcM23Hbs5U
I got one! LOL! ;D
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I've been to lots of KOA campgrounds ranging from super luxury resort style and the low-end parking lot with pedestals style. Never been asked for an RVIA sticker. Never had the words mentioned to us. Never been questioned about the age of our coach.
One thing I've noticed though in KOA campgrounds is that each one is privately owned. They each have their own rules, and they each set their own policies.
Perhaps there are some in more popular areas (like AZ) that use the RVIA stickers to week out some of the problem campers, but certainly not anything that's being done across the board at all KOAs.
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It definitely seems like a good idea to have one of these stickers on hand. I suppose duplicating one would not be that hard these days. The only thing is it needs a registration number. If you know the required number of digits and format, it seems it could work. I sort of doubt that they actually check the registration number.
Even if I never use it, it would give me pleasure to know that I have in some small way undermined the system.
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Van, posting the video link has probably ruined your chances of running for President.
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I've been to lots of KOA campgrounds ranging from super luxury resort style and the low-end parking lot with pedestals style. Never been asked for an RVIA sticker. Never had the words mentioned to us. Never been questioned about the age of our coach.
One thing I've noticed though in KOA campgrounds is that each one is privately owned. They each have their own rules, and they each set their own policies.
Perhaps there are some in more popular areas (like AZ) that use the RVIA stickers to week out some of the problem campers, but certainly not anything that's being done across the board at all KOAs.
Ok I was asked for it this summer in CA,Utah,CO,NV and Idaho a friend of mine owns a KOA on Lake Conroe in Texas and I asked him,he says that is corporate's rule not the owners he likes it.says it came about when KOA and RVIA designed and built a few campgrounds together.I do doubt a owner of a small KOA with vacant spaces are going to turn you away for no RVIA sticker but you never know, one can always call KOA in Billing MT and find out I guess
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Ok I was asked for it this summer in CA,Utah,CO,NV and Idaho a friend of mine owns a KOA on Lake Conroe in Texas and I asked him,he says that is corporate's rule not the owners he likes it.says it came about when KOA and RVIA designed and built a few campgrounds together.I do doubt a owner of a small KOA with vacant spaces are going to turn you away for no RVIA sticker but you never know, one can always call KOA in Billing MT and find out I guess
Again, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that I've never had it happen to me. From 5 feet away no one would know that my sticker isn't legit, so I'm not terribly worried.
Wonder what happens when someone does a rehab on an older camper or if the original one peels off. Seems like a lot of attention to a really meaningless certification.
Of course, if you have some real ones somewhere and one happened to show up...
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Van, posting the video link has probably ruined your chances of running for President.
True story Lin ;D
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Nice loophole if someone shows up driving a pos., besides vehicle age.
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Nice loophole if someone shows up driving a pos., besides vehicle age.
Exactly! They mostly look for coaches that show Pride in Ownership. No Mobile CrackLab looking units :o ;D
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Exactly! They mostly look for coaches that show Pride in Ownership. No Mobile CrackLab looking units :o ;D
Damn... There goes the design plan. Back to the drawing board....
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Going across the country a few years ago we were never asked for our RVIA number or to show the tag and we have one. Also were asked how long the Bus was and we would tell them expecting them to say to big or whatever but nothing on that either. When we told them 1979 for the year no one flinched. Thousand trails in Tenn. was the toughest. They told us we had to pay 5.00 extra because we were not members OMG. And funny thing was that was the worst place we stayed the whole trip. Weeds everywhere and lots of gravel most of the electric had problems hanging boxes and exposed wiring as well as they told us the 50 Amp spots and we drove the whole place and there were no 50 amp spots, LOL ;D.
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@Dave5Cs
Dave are you familiar with "Travel Village" in Castaic California? Just N of Magic Mountain & S of the Grape Vine - I-5?
We full timed there twice for a couple years each time while doing Union Carpentry in East LA & Santa Monica. We started out as "bums" who barely made it into the park & in time ended up in their best sites. That place has been my main reference for parks that look down on our antique busses. It was really a great place to stay - right on the Santa Clarita riverbed and a movie set where MASH, Twilight Zone were filmed & the movie Uncommon Valor. It was our home a couple times & a great place out of the city. We used to go to Mount Pinos on weekends with the kids to get out of the smog, LOL at over 8000' ASL. Rant over - thanks for the memory... :^ ;)
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We know where it is Dan but never stayed there. Have only stayed San Demas RV resort and Hot springs Coast to Coast RV resort in that area.
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Hi Dan, Travel Village and it's predecessor were one of my favorites to stay at when working in the Valley or Hollywood studios. Nice people, great shade trees, easy access to and fro...
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Have only stayed San Demas RV resort
Dave -
Are you and Doreen planning on attending Buck's rally next spring in San Dimas?
RJ
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RJ don't know yet. All we know so far is we have to be out of here for the sell in late December.
Finding a 10 x 10 storage unit in Roseville is tough right now they all seem to be full because of people leaving or losing their homes etc.
We have very little stuff. Well I actually don't have anything but a few tools and most else is on the bus. Momma has a lot of stuff that she uses for sewing etc. Are packing up in the next few days to moving stuff out and then probably an RV park until we can get some of her medical stuff done then hopefully we will know more. Don't know what state yet either. Flagstaff was a thought but with her heart we can't be that high up. I hate Limbo ya know.......
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Hi Dave, Prescott is nice, lower altitude, 5300', Nicky lives in Williams, AZ, that's 7000' 80 miles away. Tom...
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Dave, Prescott can get snow in the winter. Do you know Michael Hargis? He is looking for workkcampers for an rv park he is getting to reopen in St. David.
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Ed yes we know Mike and Christy. Where is St. David? Found it AZ by Wilcocks which we stayed at 4 years ago. Don't really want to workcamp ever again but might stay there if we get down that way. When will they have it opened?
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Ed yes we know Mike and Christy. Where is St. David? Found it AZ by Wilcocks which we stayed at 4 years ago. Don't really want to workcamp ever again but might stay there if we get down that way. When will they have it opened?
Dave, Prescott can get snow in the winter. Do you know Michael Hargis? He is looking for workkcampers for an rv park he is getting to reopen in St. David.
Dave, I think Ed means St. George maybe?
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Hi Van there is a ST. David AZ also so Ed which is it? :)
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Hi Van there is a ST. David AZ also so Ed which is it? :)
Hmm didn't know that. Last time I saw Michael was up at a RV camp up in St. George he was running. For that matter that was the last time I saw Ed also. Our best to the Mrs. ;)
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A little late getting back to this post. It is St. David in Az. I think they are going to open sometime after the first of the year.
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Thanks Ed/ Van :)
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Hi Dave, St George is a nice area, higher than LV, only 2700ft, but it snows. 123 miles 2 hrs from LV. Several RV parks, did a show there in an horse farm area called snow mountain, very pretty, red sandstone mountains. Best pie I've ever had nearby! tom...
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Thanks Tom. The Pie should do it for me, LOL
We have lived in Colorado Snow country for ten years so no big for us. Don't really want to live in it any time soon but not a deal breaker. We think so far for awhile we will do some boondocking and RV parking for like a month at each place to just relax and chill out. I am done working for others. I have done that all my life even though it was my own businesses. I want to wake up when I want and drink a cup of coffee, read a good book, people watch, etc.
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Hi Dave, there is a boondocking area on top of a mesa, outside the town limits, just east of Overton NV, no services, overlooks Lake Mead, it's flat, some other boondockers are always there, free! Off I-15 to Logandale/Overton, towards the Lake and Valley of Fire road...
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That is my bypass route to get around Vegas. :)