BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on December 10, 2020, 06:33:36 AM
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Why did you choose a Bus Conversion over a conventional motorhome or trailer? What advantages are important to you?
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Safety and road worthiness.
My hypothesis was proved correct when we walked away from a head-on collision against a car a few years ago.
Next in line was the cool factor - love vintage cars and buses, especially those with a unique look like our current bus, the GM 4108.
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Ditto what Richard said. We were able to walk away from a class C motorhome crash much better than the motor home did. It was either buy a home in SoCal or rent an apt. & get into another motorhome which we did, a bus then we got out of Dodge!
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The above, as well as reliability and longevity. I used to have an 80s era Class A which was constantly doing its best to fall apart, and I knew that no matter how much work I put into it (without going full Ship of Theseus) it would forever be a battle just to keep the thing in one piece, all the while risking a major engine malfunction which would simply not be worth repairing. Switching to a bus chassis meant bigger and often more expensive repair/maintenance tasks, but also that I could reasonably expect many more years of reliable service and a platform that would be worth repairing from all but the most extreme issues that might turn up.
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Same as Richard, and all who have responded so far have GM's
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Buses fare well in wrecks with smaller vehicles but they don't do that great with a head on with vehicles their same weight and size.We have owned buses for over 40 years and I never felt like I would survive a head on with another bus or 18 wheeler and most drivers don't when they meet their match
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The whole S&S thing really. Having owned a trailer and a "bread truck" (an unfair characterization to the bread truck I think) and also having had to repair or replace essentially every major component except the drive axle on the RV including some of the framing, well let's just say I didn't really care for the construction. Then of course there was the one that I saw in S. Carolina that got zippered by a tree. That sort of gets your attention. Buses aren't generally known for roof leaks. That's a major improvement. But it wasn't until the roofs lifted, the mileage improved, and the cost dropped that it became practical to consider.
Jim
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Aside from the safety, which there are different opinions on, the road worthiness still shines as a key reason for choosing a bus.
To me, most traditional S&S motor homes are designed around being great once they get to the campground. On the road they are acceptable, usually. You have to pay quite a bit to get a S&S with good road manners.
The design priority of a bus conversion is different. Just starting out with a bus will result in a vehicle which is designed to be on the road all the time and to have good road manners. Comfort in a campground might not be as high as a S&S, but road manners will (IMO) always be better.
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Aside from the safety, which there are different opinions on, the road worthiness still shines as a key reason for choosing a bus.
To me, most traditional S&S motor homes are designed around being great once they get to the campground. On the road they are acceptable, usually. You have to pay quite a bit to get a S&S with good road manners.
The design priority of a bus conversion is different. Just starting out with a bus will result in a vehicle which is designed to be on the road all the time and to have good road manners. Comfort in a campground might not be as high as a S&S, but road manners will (IMO) always be better.
I have to disagree with you on that my CC drives and handles as good or better as any bus we have owned it is a heavy sucker though
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I have to disagree with you on that my CC drives and handles as good or better as any bus we have owned it is a heavy sucker though
You noticed I said "most" I hope. Your coach is an exception, for sure. My point was about the typical motor home which would be comparable in price to a bus conversion. You have to spend quite a few pennies to get a S&S like you're driving.
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In my price range any stick&staple I could buy would have been a trash heap. For less money I bought a badly converted bus instead. Even if the bus broke in half down the middle today I could get my money back parting it out. I also enjoy antique vehicles which ruled out me wanting to spend any amount of time traveling behind the wheel of anything modern. Now that I am tearing the old conversion out and redoing the interior the end result will be extremely well insulated and finished the exact way I want it.
I'm also the sort of person who will buy a vehicle and try my best to keep it running for the rest of my life. A stick&staple will fall apart at the seams long before an MCI. I have no intentions to sell it or worry about how my build choices will affect resale value. For me that means a manual transmission, solid wood everything, built in computer desk for work, etc.
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I built my little bus because I am crazy--at least that's what my friends (?) told me. It sure is fun being crazy. Jack
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I drove cross country big rig Diesel (1979-2000) and saw the remains of many RV crashes. Sticks and Staples motorhomes-including rear engine Diesels, just don't fare well in a crash. Many of them literally come apart! I chose a transit bus, because it has real bumpers in front and back, is the strongest built bus, has the largest drum brakes, and the V-drive is very reliable. My 1977 looks as good as it did 20 years ago when I first got it painted-sans some small peeling spots (because of steel and aluminum fighting each other-the manufacturers didn't build buses to last 43 years). But you won't find too many sticks and staples motorhomes that are 43 years old still on the road. Plus most all the components (at least on my AMGeneral) are universal to trucks too.
But now I'm converting my 1985 Kenworth K100E 90" Aerodyne cabover into a motorhome (almost done). I just got tired of working on the confines of the bus. Plus, any mechanic knows how to work on a Caterpillar 3406B, as compared to very few mechanics that can work on a Detroit 2 cycle 8V-71. Good Luck, TomC
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Prior to the Bus we had a mid 80’s Class C.
When we purchased it, we had to do Major renovations, no matter how much we did there was always something else deteriorating or a new leak, don’t get me wrong we very much enjoyed it and had a lot fun in it.
The other major issue with it, and most every other Purpose made Motorhome that I have driven is the way they drive, I never had any fun driving them, The RV’s in my price range, almost all of them when built used the minimum amount of Suspension, engine and brakes that they could legally get away with as a result you more herd than drive them down the road and I would be worn out by the time we got where we were going.
Looking forward to retiring in a few years we wanted to get something with more room, more suited to our needs and something that was much more fun to drive. Having driven many larger Trucks when I was younger, I knew there were much better things to drive.
After much research (and liking a good project) The Wife and I decided on a Bus conversion, although it would probably have made better sense to buy an already converted Bus, for us there was really no other choice than to buy a seated coach and build it our way.
We have not regretted our decision, I absolutely love driving the Bus, We really like the layout we designed, one of the things we had not expected, we have made it so comfortable inside, that now when we go to a campground we end up spending more time inside the Bus than we ever did in the Class C.
After I fixed a few major and unexpected mechanical issues that were left to us from the previous owners the bus has run good.
We could probably never have afforded a purpose built Motorhome that has all the amenities that we have built into our Bus, having the advantage of building it slowly over time and paying for the parts as we built has worked out great for us.
Even if we had bought an S&S or an already converted Bus, the wife would still have wanted to tear everything out and remodel it to her exacting standards…..
Peter
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@peterbylt
Not only a ditto, but mostly took the words right out of my mouth!
Not really, you said it first! Same here - In service bus 40 years ago, converted it, renovated it over & over.
Same bus now & loving it all the way through...
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The C's are crappy all you dealing with is a pickup camper mounted on van front with most of those lol I did see some slide in campers for pickups the dealer was asking $60,000.00. I could not believe the price or that anyone would pay it people do their was guy in a new F450 Ford (100 )grand for the truck and 60 grand for the camper
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I don' really know. I went looking fore an RV and somehow stumbled onto bus conversions. I suspect the overarching reason was value - what one can get for x dollars. You get a lot of good and bad but everyone places a different weight on what is considered good and bad.
In the final analysis I feel like I maximized the benefits and minimized the risks of owning something like this.
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It's the only way I know that I can build an RV with lots of room, big holding tanks, lots of storage and do it in a way I could afford. Still under budget and money in the bank. So far so good. The solid structure and underpinning is certainly a plus.
Jim
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One really really nice thing about converting a bus is there's very little concern overloading it. I just took 200 lbs times the # of original seats plus the weight of everything gutted out of it (seats, overhead racks, A/C pony assembly, bottom compartment luggage, etc. etc. etc.!) & started replacing it with conversion. We've been running an antique 41 seat bus with 11 to 20 passengers for 40 years now as a conversion. It has been loaded over it's GVWR only when a toad is following.
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As much as I love buses, I have been driving them on and off for 47 years, they are not the end all, be all for a motor home. We just bought a 07 Country Coach that drives as good as any late model MCI or Prevost I have driven. And is just as solid or better than commercial buses. And with the 600 HP Cummins ISX will blow the doors off of any of them up a mountain pass. Those higher end motor homes can be had for pennies on the dollar, like any older S&S.
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Because Gary has one.
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After pulling out the seats I found I had 15,000 lbs of weight capacity to play with. Heck, that's almost as much as the gross on my old S&S I think. Well maybe not quite but you can do a lot with that. I don't worry much about the weight.
An old CC might have been nice, but I don't think I'd have been satisfied with one. Probably be forever changing things. It would have cost me more, and I don't think I could have mustered the purchase price.
Jim
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Country Coach has a lot electronics but the boxes if they go bad are cheap in price and Advance Auto Parts stocks the computers for a $139.00 ea. If the HWH Active air ride and leveling system gives up HWH will rebuild the boards for the slides and Active Air for a $100,00 I can live with that.Now Cummins for the engine and Generator that is a different ball game when you add Allison to the picture ,I will say Cummins is good for helping with your serial number over the internet,Allison won.t give you the time of day unless you subscribe
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I had trailers for years, a streamline while the boys were growing. We got an Ultrastar class A. I saw a bus conversion with a window in the bay when I looked inside and saw a bedroom with a dog lying inside, tail wagging, I was hooked. Sold the ultrastar quickly, started the hunt, first bus was a pro conversion of a MCI5A, with an interior access to the lined and carpeted interior of 2nd bay, big enough for a queen bed. When the wife wanted to retire, as a nurse, and wanted to travel, but make jewelry from silver, we needed more space. Sold the 5A in a month. Got a great deal of a 102C3 that was somewhat started to take out the seats and luggage racks. Gary, Van and Joe of B&B, as did Clifford, were tremendous help, finished enough, in record time to stay in SoCal, to live in when working...lvmci...
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The typical trailers or motor homes are pretty cheaply built, but the main thing with me is that I love to do things myself. I built my own house twice, and remodeled others. I think the main thing with me is the do-it-yourself factor.
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The typical trailers or motor homes are pretty cheaply built, but the main thing with me is that I love to do things myself. I built my own house twice, and remodeled others. I think the main thing with me is the do-it-yourself factor.
Me too!!! but father time cured that
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Yeah, Clifford's right about that. As we age, reliability takes a front seat. It gets old when something breaks down on a trip.
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It’s the pits to have a 40 year old mind in an 80 year old body.☹️
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But anything is better than push daisies... Heck even pushing a bus! ;)
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First of all we needed a flexible floor plan, and then of course the bus won’t crumple if it rolls etc. notice attached pic from today
I know busses aren’t the best (for driver safety)but these sticks and staples just literally fall apart if you touch them...
And driving a pickup is no fun if you have a trailer
Of course the first time I saw an Eagle I was instantly hooked on the look. And of course I like to build things
My 2¢
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I admit I did like my buses we have owned 3 MCI's 1 Prevost and 2 Eagles we never owned a GM,it was the people I liked that owned the buses some are still close friends and we stay in touch
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I've been a "busnut" ever since I was six years old, riding the "Fearless Peerless" pictured below between the San Tomas district of Campbell, CA and downtown San Jose with my mom and little sister. From the shotgun seat, I was fascinated watching the driver steer, shift and make change all at the same time!
I put myself thru college driving Crown and Gillig school buses, and then into the charter and transit industries for the majority of my working career. But always in the back of my mind was the seed of owning my own one day to travel in once I retired.
When my kids were growing up, we traveled all around the 11 western states pulling a Coleman pop-up tent trailer behind our Dodge Grand Caravan during summer vacations. Had a ball, even tho now and then I had to make repairs, none of which were major.
Fast forward to 2014. Thru a friend of a friend of a friend, I jumped at the opportunity to purchase a rare MCI MC-5C that had been converted on a new shell by Angola Coach before the "for sale" ad ever hit the internet. (You have to be slightly crazy to fly into Boston in the middle of November and then drive back to the West Coast - but I wasn't stupid enough to come back via I-80!) Over four years and 40,000 miles later, with only routine maintenance, that coach served me well. Many of you remember "Tortoise", nicknamed after Aesop's Fable of The Tortoise and The Hare, because that's the way it rolled. It wasn't fast, but it always got me there!
Nowadays, after a chance meeting in a Safeway parking lot in August 2018, I'm "living rich thru depreciation" in my '92 Prevost XL, converted on a new shell by Vantarè (before they were bought by Featherlite.) I was happy with the 5C, but when this deal came along, well. . . you know how those things go. The difference between the two is 14 years of technology, five feet more length, 102" vs 96", 500 hp vs 235 hp, and the corresponding ride difference between two and three axles. It's quiet and comfy, and fits my lifestyle perfectly - I'll probably keep it until it's time to hang up my steering wheel for good.
There's just "something" about the mystique of owning/driving a coach that's difficult to explain.
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
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If you have to ask, you probably wouldn't understand!
In other words why ask, why?
;D BK ;D
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Having a busconversion allows me to flaunt the biggest Butt on the road. :^ ;D
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RJ, I Grew up in Campbell. Many times cught the peerless stages in Campbell at the Blue Bell café where we purchased our ticket. Rode into downtown San Jose with my mother so she could do a little shopping and we often had lunch at a coffee shop. Happy memories happy times.
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Because I watched the Bus Grease Monkey channel LOL!!!
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:^
RAISED AWARENESS!
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RJ, in my youth caught the Peerless at the Hayward station to take me to Palo Alto (4 year Palo Alto Military Academy), I also purchased a Peerless 4106-097 I think, still their colors only very faded.
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Going to concerts and seeing the busses I had to have one. Being a RV tech, you wouldn’t believe the crap that comes thru the shop. I made the right choice, besides, I got room for my bay car. Cheers Raymond
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When we laid our class C on it's side & seen how it fell apart like an open pack of tooth picks in mid air, if it wasn't gonna be on a foundated piece of real estate it had to be a bus!
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I had to copy & paste this post from the BGM forum as it so relates to this post.
dtcerrato
10:38PM edited 10:43PM
@rmiddleton said:
What Don said!!!! This mentality has created the part changer breed of mechanics. These coaches were made when a mechanic was a mechanic and understood the failure because they knew how it functioned and what it took to repair or rebuild it on the bench. Rant over!!!!
@richard5933 said:
They were also built at a time when the cost to replace a pump cost a lot more money than mechanic's labor charge to install a rebuild kit. Nowadays, with the junk parts being popped out of factories in every corner of the world it's rarely cost effective to actually fix anything instead of just replacing it.
My responses:
@Rodney
These coaches were "also" made when an engineer was an engineer & didn't have bean counters trying to cut corners. Engineering departments chewed fat with the mechanics, the driver's and even studied the passengers in a day when they were laying down super slabs to run war machines to any & everywhere.
@Richard
They were also built in a time (early post war) when the military was dumping huge amounts of raw material on the private sector for mass transportation (planes, trains & buses) that were stock piled & mass produced for war machines - especially aluminum...
There was NO shortage, NO cutting corners & NO conservative engineering practices - lots of the war time engineers working under federal government military contract transferred from military priority to civilian mass transit priority and "OVER BUILT" as we are the testament to in our vintage & antique buses.
8)
There's a unique proudness when this (& I'm sure others) bus nut is behind the wheel pulling on 50' of Johnson bar linkage to park it or wearing an already wore out shoulder, knee, & hip clutching, shifting & steering the ole' girl. No numb relaxing with an auto but getting right into the bare back mechanics of driving a truly rooted mechanical beast of beauty & feeling every bit of it.
THEN: when we stop and live in it a whole new world takes shape - mostly the part that we did.
Oh man! I quit...
RANT OVER!!!
Carry on... :^
1953-4104-129 IL 671 NA Dual Exhaust 4 Valve Head
Ownership since 1979
North Central Florida
2009 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4 5.7L Hemi
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I think they look a lot cooler than RVs and I love the stainless steel (aluminum on Eagles) from middle down!
They are more durable with fewer leaks.
I love the tour bus look.
My quote has always been: "I want to drive around in a bus that looks like ZZ Top just came to town"
I don't buy for safety at least can't think of a time I ever have but they do far better in collisions than a motorhome.
It is true that the driver spot is one of the worst places to be in a bus accident probably due to many of them hitting something that way and the large windshields.
I have seen many bus wrecks where driver is ejected but this happens in trucks too.
Just had a friend get killed at 45 years old in an old 90 or 94 International straight bed truck. He was ejected but always wears his seatbelt.
His wife said the seat failed and the whole thing was thrown out. I didn't see it but old rusty beat up truck it was, so anything is possible.
I rarely wear a seat belt so they might find me if there is ever a wreck.
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The argument can go on forever people like what ever they own and some enjoy working on their RV or buses ,you see so many dreams go to junk yard.LOL it was a silly question to ask on bus conversion board it was sorta like comparing a Newell on a Prevost board enjoy what you have :^ I am
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I am pretty sure our story will be fairly unique... I was 27 years old and my wife and I had tried to have kids for a couple years with no luck, so we decided to do something not easily accomplished with kids - go on a road trip! Neither of us had spent A SINGLE NIGHT in any kind of MH, so we had no idea what we were looking for or wanted/needed. I did some research and learned bus conversions rode better than typical S&S, were safer and held their value better than other types of MHs. So, I naively decided a bus conversion was right for me!! I had ZERO mechanical or big-rig driving experience, so of course it made sense to buy a commercial bus.....
We started looking at bus conversions for sale, they all looked similar to MHs, slightly out-of-date looking interiors and nothing real special. It was around 10pm when I found the Moosecreek Motor Cabin, and I was in love. Contacted Mike, went to look at it in late June, bought it June 30th, and left for 6 months on July 1. Only blew up the engine by putting in the wrong oil and ran out of gas 2 times on the trip, nothing major..... ::)
Needless to say it has been a very sharp learning curve through the years, but I am now 41 with the same wife, we adopted our 2 kids, and the Moose is still going strong!!!
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I am pretty sure our story will be fairly unique... I was 27 years old and my wife and I had tried to have kids for a couple years with no luck, so we decided to do something not easily accomplished with kids - go on a road trip! Neither of us had spent A SINGLE NIGHT in any kind of MH, so we had no idea what we were looking for or wanted/needed. I did some research and learned bus conversions road better than typical S&S, were safer and held their value better than other types of MHs. So, I naively decided a bus conversion was right for me!! I had ZERO mechanical or big-rig driving experience, so of course it made sense to buy a commercial bus.....
We started looking at bus conversions for sale, they all looked similar to MHs, slightly out-of-date looking interiors and nothing real special. It was around 10pm when I found the Moosecreek Motor Cabin, and I was in love. Contacted Mike, went to look at it in late June, bought it June 30th, and left for 6 months on July 1. Only blew up the engine by putting in the wrong oil and ran out of gas 2 times on the trip, nothing major..... ::)
Needless to say it has been a very sharp learning curve through the years, but I am now 41 with the same wife, 2 kids and the Moose is still going strong!!!
Yeah buddy! :^
Now that"s what I'm talkin' bout!
:^