BCM Community

Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: richardkillmon on December 11, 2020, 12:54:19 PM

Title: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richardkillmon on December 11, 2020, 12:54:19 PM

Hello to all,

I have an year old Onan 10K generator and a MasterVolt inverter issue.
On shore power the inverter works perfectly but on generator power the inverter start a 2 minute cycle over and over again. It starts out Bulk charging for 2 minutes (normal) and the charger shuts off for 2 minutes and then back to normal for 2 minutes.

MasterVolt states that my generator frequency wave is close but not perfectly clean and I need to filter the power.
Generator company has checked unit twice and all is normal.

Has anyone heard of this before?
What kind of filter do I add? UPS??
Is it the inverter or my generator?
What can I do?

Thanks

Rick

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: Utahclaimjumper on December 11, 2020, 01:09:45 PM

 It looks like your talking about a CONVERTER,, or possibly an inverter/ converter.. An inverter changes 12VDC to 120 V AC .>>>Dan

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richardkillmon on December 11, 2020, 01:17:32 PM

Yes, I have a 4 AGM batteries that supply my outlets with 120 outlets once the inverter does it magic.

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: luvrbus on December 11, 2020, 01:23:13 PM

Does it have a battery temperature sensor? my Magnum went crazy and Magnum sent me a new battery sensor to solve the problem     

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richardkillmon on December 11, 2020, 01:27:28 PM

Yes has battery sensor.
The Inverter tech checked all settings and wires for any errors - none.

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: buswarrior on December 11, 2020, 04:40:58 PM

Get a "kill-o-watt" off Amazon, and check the hertz of your generator.

Generators don't make "dirty" power, that phrase is reserved for old, choppy, modified wave inverters.

Curious what the generator voltage is doing when the device in question is getting messed up?

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richardkillmon on December 11, 2020, 04:46:44 PM

thanks

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richardkillmon on December 11, 2020, 06:43:18 PM

60 Hertz

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: Utahclaimjumper on December 11, 2020, 06:55:32 PM

It don't get any better than that,, does the generator bogg down a bit when under load ?? >>>Dan

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richardkillmon on December 11, 2020, 07:07:23 PM

The RPMs never change on it

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: Utahclaimjumper on December 12, 2020, 08:49:24 AM

 That means your frequency never changes and that's a good thing.>>>Dan

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: RichardEntrekin on December 13, 2020, 04:37:27 PM

Is it possible that the transfer switch is flaky, and not passing clean power to the inverter/charger?  Can you temporarily wire around the xfer switch?

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richardkillmon on December 13, 2020, 04:41:54 PM

I have a manual transfer box that I turn to left for shore power or right to generator power.
Should I bypass this? Could the contacts be corroded?

Thanks

Rick

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richard5933 on December 13, 2020, 05:32:17 PM

Quote from: richardkillmon on December 13, 2020, 04:41:54 PM

I have a manual transfer box that I turn to left for shore power or right to generator power.
Should I bypass this? Could the contacts be corroded?

Thanks

Rick

Rather than bypass, you might confirm that all the terminals are fully seated and tight, even the ones on the bottom. There will likely be 9 terminals in all (L1, L2, and Neutral for each Generator, Shore Power, Line Out to Breakers).

The terminals can get loose over time and the result is often what you're describing. When you test them for being tight, be sure to give them a good crank - they can stick in place after a few years and you'll think they're tight, but another 1/4 or 1/2 turn might be possible once they break free.

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richardkillmon on December 13, 2020, 05:37:45 PM

thank you for that help.

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: TomC on December 16, 2020, 07:24:08 AM

Also generator may not be grounded properly.

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richardkillmon on December 16, 2020, 07:30:21 AM

Thanks

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: luvrbus on December 16, 2020, 04:39:49 PM

Is the generator a QD 10000 Onan ?

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: Van on December 16, 2020, 05:26:49 PM

Richard K. What is the model # of your Master volt inverter?

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richardkillmon on December 17, 2020, 05:57:19 AM

Inverter MasterVolt 12V2000W-10A 120V

Generator ON10.0HDKCA-11506-RP

Does that help

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richard5933 on December 17, 2020, 06:42:07 AM

I looked at your initial post again and see that they mentioned the generator's frequency wave was not clean. I'm wondering if instead of a sine wave your generator is producing spikes somewhere in the wave. The frequency can be spot on at 60 hz and the wave pattern itself can still contain spikes or odd shapes.

Not sure how it works exactly, but if your generator uses brushes and copper commutator, I'd imagine that a little buildup in the wrong place could create spikes in the wave pattern. If the generator people are measuring the voltage and freq, they wouldn't necessary notice spikes in the wave pattern or oddly shaped waves.

Not sure if the inverter/charger is sensitive enough to the wave pattern to detect this, but that does sound like it could the kind of thing they're talking about.

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richardkillmon on December 17, 2020, 07:23:22 AM

They attached an special meter/scope (I can't remember how to spell it) it showed the wave length and it was choppy not smooth. They double checked the scope by trying another power source and the line was smooth on the second power supply.

I'm going to attach an UPS rack to the inverter to see if that correct the issue.
What do you think?

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richard5933 on December 17, 2020, 07:45:27 AM

They probably used an oscilloscope.

If you have an access cover which allows inspection of the brushes and commutator(s) it would be worthwhile to take a look and see if there are any obvious problems.

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: luvrbus on December 17, 2020, 07:58:53 AM

That is a pure sine generator with electronic controls if the generator is malfunctioning it will throw a code he can read all he has to do is hold the stop button down and it will display any codes 

Title: Re: Inverter issue -- they say generator dirty wave
Post by: richardkillmon on December 17, 2020, 08:02:31 AM

we two different generator company checked generator
The inverter place checked it also
No codes
connections good
the scope shown choppy wave line compared to smooth on Commerial power

thanks for helping