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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: matzeinusa on April 28, 2021, 11:23:35 PM

Title: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: matzeinusa on April 28, 2021, 11:23:35 PM
Looking for a donor engine!
Brought my coach to the shop and got the bad news that the heads are toast/cracked and someone put the wrong freeze plugs in years ago.
If anyone has a good engine/rebuilt engine [in or close to Northern California or anywhere in the USA], please let me know.

In case I can't find one, I probably have to bring the bus to the scrapyard. I am trying to avoid it though.
There will be parts on sale if that happens.

Thanks!
Matt
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: luvrbus on April 29, 2021, 05:26:53 AM
Wrong freeze plugs years ago explain please ,you should find one from a later model transit bus in Oregon or Washington you probably won"t find one in CA ,Mac paid a 1000 bucks for one in Portland with a V730 transmission you will need to use your cradle though   
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: buswarrior on April 29, 2021, 06:02:36 AM
Yeah, better get your radar running on this shop, what is this freeze plug comment?

If there's made up bullshit at this point, your pain is far from over...

Go carefully...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: chessie4905 on April 29, 2021, 08:28:00 AM
freeze plugs push out and heads crack if frozen. Overheat it bad enough and plugs could also fail if rusty. Your best bet is to just part it out and start over, unless it is,a real nice conversion and/or youve already sunk a lot of money into it.
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: matzeinusa on April 29, 2021, 08:48:58 AM
They just mentioned that the plugs are not stainless steal and that’s why the are corroded on the inside and outside and you can’t reach them on the forward side of the engine. Have to pull the engine.
But there is coolant leaking into one cylinder = cracked head. Also pressure is pushing out the coolant out of the reservoir.
And one of the cylinders ceased up and the engine doesn’t start when it’s hot…
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: luvrbus on April 29, 2021, 10:55:04 AM
They don't have stainless freeze plugs in Detroit's high level of PH balance rusts the freeze plugs out from corrosion from wrong anti freeze or no maintaince your engine is not original for the year model so it has been changed over to the newer style 8v71     
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: Dave5Cs on April 29, 2021, 11:23:51 AM
Hey Matt what shop up north said this? You can PM me if you don't want to say.
Dave
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: RJ on April 29, 2021, 10:02:24 PM
Matt -

Where in NoCA are you located? Might help if you'd upgrade your profile to include a signature line similar to mine and others that lists your coach and your home base city/state.

Second, you can't just use any old 8V71, it's got to be one out of a GMC coach, as they're left hand rotation compared to a truck engine. A transit with a V-drive automatic will also have a LH engine (except for the few transits out there with a Series 50 four cylinder.) A truck engine will give you four speeds in reverse!

Has your '06 been added to the historical Survivor's List that fellow busnut Jon Ulse began compiling a few years ago?  All he needs is the VIN (PD4106-XXXX), your home city/state, and whether the coach is seated, converted, or scrapped.  Post that info here and it will get migrated over to the list.

Sorry about your misfortune, but with a little patience, something will turn up.

FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: matzeinusa on April 29, 2021, 11:10:51 PM
Hi RJ,
We are in the capital of California and I did sent my info to that list your mentioned.
The coach is fully converted to an RV, although I just ripped everything above the luggage compartments out and was planning to redo it, front to back.
But that is only going to happen if I can find another engine without breaking the bank.
Matt
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: luvrbus on April 30, 2021, 05:37:49 AM
Matt not to confuses you but the engine does not have to be from  GM only, about all transit buses used the v drive.I am looking for one for you, 1 from a 4106 would be the easiest for you but the 6v92 should be easy to find then you watch out for those from the transit buses some of the later models used right turning 6v92's.Are the freeze plugs and cracked head the only issues with the engine ?
   
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: matzeinusa on April 30, 2021, 09:47:01 AM
no. at least one of the cylinders/pistons in the lower bank ceases up. Since the pressure is pump out the coolant, the top bank doesn't get much coolant and so don't know if there is more damage on the top one..
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: buswarrior on April 30, 2021, 09:53:16 AM
There is an entire cradle with engine and transmission out of an rts for sale on FB

Scott Robinson? maybe is the name?

The bus was totaled in a movie shoot, and he is parting the drivetrain in one piece. Video of it running before destruction.

6v92t ddec3 and a mechanical 730 is what it said.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: chessie4905 on April 30, 2021, 06:20:04 PM
8V-71 out of a 4905 available here in central Pa. 1979 or 80 model. Too bad its so far away.
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: chessie4905 on April 30, 2021, 06:22:15 PM
Seriously though, if you gutted it to redo it, better to just move on with another good running shell. There are too many out there at fire sale prices.
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: lvmci on April 30, 2021, 10:23:18 PM
There is an 8V71 block sitting in the G&R Coach lot outside in Las Vegas, I was told it was prepared to be sold, when something happened to the buyer. Years ago, call Gilbert G&R (702) 575-5939
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: Van on May 01, 2021, 10:45:56 AM
Maybe?
https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/hvo/d/detroit-diesels/7304077849.html
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: buswarrior on May 01, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Pm'd the link to a facebook listing, rts whole drivetrain cradle.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/MotorCoachParts/permalink/1725194380984800/

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: matzeinusa on May 03, 2021, 12:26:27 PM
All the leads have not paned out so far. Thanks for the links and contacts.
Does that 6v-92 fit into the PD4106 with the cradle? Or does one have to custom-fit all that. Is the 6cylinder strong enough for a PD4106 as a highway coach?
Just wondering how people do this.
Matt
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: Utahclaimjumper on May 03, 2021, 01:19:54 PM
 A 6V92TA is more than strong enough and then some for an 06..>>>Dan
  ( Only 16 cubic inches between them,, your lawn mower is probably bigger than that..)
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: matzeinusa on May 03, 2021, 03:45:56 PM
Ok. But that 6v92 is an electronic engine and we would have to do a lot of modifications.

Mine is a naturally aspired, manual transmission 8v71.

The one at K&R in Michigan was a turbo-charged one.
All others I checked and they are gone.
Thanks for looking around!
Matt
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: luvrbus on May 03, 2021, 04:14:26 PM
The 6v92 comes both ways electronic or non electric  it works on the cradle with just a few mods the air intake and exhaust take some work, buy one with the V730 Allison it easier to install and no clutch to deal with 
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: Utahclaimjumper on May 03, 2021, 05:49:54 PM

 And you DO WANT one turbo charged..>>>Dan
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: buswarrior on May 03, 2021, 08:28:43 PM
That assembly is the big chance to go automatic all at once.

The rest of the bus won't care much about whether the injectors are activated mechanically or elctrically...

Turbo makes you altitude proof...

An opportunity or project creep...?

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: 6805eagleguy on May 04, 2021, 07:15:50 AM
Id say that the 4 dreaded letters are getting closer and closer....  WWAI!
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: freds on May 04, 2021, 02:34:18 PM
Id say that the 4 dreaded letters are getting closer and closer....  WWAI!

Ok I give what is WWAI? I google it and came up with:

Acronym   Definition
WWAI   World Wide Article Information
WWAI   Wagga Wagga Agricultural Institute (research; Australia)
WWAI   Whale Watching Association of Iceland

Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: 6805eagleguy on May 04, 2021, 06:46:56 PM
While We’re At It

Credit goes to Eric brown for the saying
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: TomC on May 06, 2021, 09:41:57 AM
I turbocharged my 8V-71 with air to air intercooler in 2012. It was the best thing ever. Went from 300hp and 800lb/ft torque to 375hp and 1125lb/ft torque (7G75 injectors). REALLY wakes up the 8V-71 and makes it truly enjoyable to drive. Instead of 32mph up hills, I do 45mph. BIG difference. Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: matzeinusa on May 06, 2021, 11:04:08 PM
So, WWAI, I think we are going to bring the old lady to the scrapyard. Will be crying on that day. We had some awesome family vacations with that coach.

If anyone wants any parts for cheaper or not so cheap let me know. I might have a weekend to take all kinds of stuff out.
I will make some efforts to get some things detached if they can be removed...
I will sell a complete set of windows.
That's 5 original frames with new black glass windows (they have no stoppers/locks), 3x just one giant piece of glass (we glued them in just in February but I will cut them out and clean them to reuse them) and the D windows , also glued in. I can send pictures if someone is interested.
PM me with a wish list :-)
I might post some things on the sales page here later.

Thanks for everyone's help!
Matt
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: chessie4905 on May 07, 2021, 02:50:18 AM
The stock 4:11 differential is worth money for 4905 owners as they are hard to come by.
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: richard5933 on May 07, 2021, 03:45:48 AM
Surely the bus still has value as a parts bus to someone. Before you take it to the crusher maybe list it for sale at the scrap value to see if anyone wants it.
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: wobbleman on May 07, 2021, 12:05:16 PM
Re: engine for a 4905 in central PA

I believe I have the same problem and will probably need to swap in a new engine in my 4905A. Any info on the engine in PA mentioned?

Also: what would you expect to pay for one?
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: matzeinusa on May 08, 2021, 02:27:55 PM
The one in MI was $1400 turbo without transmission.
Contact cheesie directly for the PA one.
Matt
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: Tedsoldbus on May 08, 2021, 03:57:26 PM
Damn Matt,
Us none mechanics know to shut up and watch the wizzards try to help you. But know that we do watch with great fascination hoping to learn something. I was sure someone would pull a rabbit, or motor, out of their hat. I will have to be nicer to my 6V92 if motors are drying up. And now a moment of silence as another asphalt annihilator sadly goes off the active bus rolls.
Best of luck finding another bus.
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: richard5933 on May 08, 2021, 05:52:51 PM
Maybe I missed something, but is the bus otherwise in good shape? Or is it so bad that there is no point doing an in-frame to bring it back to life?
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: Dave5Cs on May 08, 2021, 06:23:42 PM
Matt have you tried these guys in West Sac. They had a 4106 that they rebuilt years ago and the guy never came back. Don't know if they still have it but I know they have 2 strokes or may know who does.
https://www.valleypowersystems.com/
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: freds on May 09, 2021, 01:36:17 PM
If they can't do an in-frame what is the differences between a LH and RH engine? I would think:

1. Cams
2. Starter
3. Blower

Could they not be transferred between the original and replacement engine?
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: luvrbus on May 09, 2021, 02:47:01 PM
Cams,oil pump;idler gear and starter if you have the right crank shaft the blowers are the same   
Title: Re: looking for a 8v71 detroit diesel engine for '61 PD4106
Post by: wobbleman on September 03, 2021, 04:53:06 AM
Sounds almost exactly like my own situation (1978 P8M4905A).

 I assumed that opening all the draincocks would drain ALL the coolant. It did pop a freeze plug but now I'm seeping coolant into the oil, so either a crack or seals.   I had also overheated it, driving the long road up to Taos NM ,and had to change the top head gasket. Probably did some damage then, too.

One question: I read that these buses were designed so the engine could be changed out it a few hours. Is that right?

Whoever posted that it makes more sense to start over... I hate to admit it, but you're probably right. I only Paid $2500 for it 10+ years ago.

Anyone have use for a decent shell, CHEAP? Located in NY State. Previous owner worked for Grumman, assembling aircraft and did a beautiful job on the alterations he made to the skin- can't even tell they aren't original!

And I cringe to even mention it, but what is my approximate scrap value?

Wobbleman

 
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