BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: hogi6123 on May 22, 2021, 03:59:11 AM
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If I have a hitch built for my MC-9, will it safely handle towing a large 15000 lb box trailer? (8v-92t and ht740)
I don't see any real rust on the frame in the back.
I have concerns about the weight breaking the frame of the bus. I'm leaning towards selling the bus and buying a large truck so I can tow the trailer.
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Fwiw, the rear of an MC9 wasn't intended for dragging a big trailer.
Lots have boldly gone ahead and done it, few of them seem to be around to brag about it, as the years go by...
Yes, a truck chassis would be a better choice for longevity at 15k...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
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Agree with buswarriorr,
If I remember correctly the mc9 has an engine cradle you’d mount the hitch to, and the tongue weights it supports are amazingly small. Rolling weight is a little better. Sorry no exact numbers, it’s been a while since I looked into it for ours. I think I’ve seen the numbers posted before.
Hope this helps, Phil
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Thanks, that's helpful. I didn't know MCI might have actually published tow ratings.
There are devices that have wheels to take the tongue weight but I don't have any experience with those and not sure I want to try them.
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Trailertoad.com
Those that have them, say good things about them.
Fwiw, there have been no mentions of disaster on the bus boards, and you can be sure someone would put a link, if there was.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
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Stop by my shop in AZ we are repairing a 9 and a C the engine rails have seen better days
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Here's what Clifford, Mike and I discovered after taking the engine out, almost all of my C3 8V92 angle truss tubes, had broken bottom welds and two of the square vertical tubes had broken welds, on the truss support for the engine sled motor mount, lvmci...
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It's hard to see in those pictures. What caused that, towing, or just driving? How much weight and how much tongue weight?
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It's a weak point on MCI trailing or not you see weird stuff welded to the rails for support towing a trailer .
MCI offered a hitch for a short period with 250# tongue weight
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Mci engine rails have been hit or miss over the decades.
Some are as sound as the day they left th factory, some are coroded out.
Some combination of operating environment, road conditions, de-icing, workmanship in assembly, horsepower... none of the paid converters of multiple used MC8 could decide, it was too random, what came in the door.
Important inspection point, and repair attempts have to be looked at with a sharp eye, lots of trashy repairs made to them too...
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
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Sounds like the cradle should be reinforced for towing. Shouldn't be that hard. On my DL I remember a couple of side plates that were the first to hit the pavement. Been awhile since I looked at it but I would think you could add a diagonal below the cradle using those plates as the lower limit (and a handy attachment point) and going back underneath to a suitable low point on the frame maybe? I'll take a look when I get the chance, maybe I can make some good suggestions.
Jim
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I'm not sure it's that easy, because all pieces of the entire frame work together, including the verticals and diagonals and doubled rails along the corners of the roof. The engine cradle is basically hanging from this structure. The engine cradle is beefed up a lot more than the rest of the frame. If the engine cradle needs to be enforced, I would think a lot of the rest of the frame may need it as well.
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MC9 is very different from a DL in the engine cradle execution.
They started to learn... DL is much beefier in the verticals.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
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Yep the D's are all verticle square tubes, Cs are alternating angle round tubes with verticle squares...
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say your tongue weight is, say 1000lbs. What does that increase to going through a short severe dip or pavement drop of say 2 inches?
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It's complicated. It could be computed. It could be substantial. To think simply, it depends on how fast you are going (because of how quickly the tires will allow the bus to descend). The bus falling in to the dip decreases the tongue weight and the bus coming up again on the other side increases the tongue weight.
But shoving the trailer tongue down gives the trailer momentum that then wants to continue and the trailer pushes down on the hitch. This is likely to coincide with the bus rising on the far side of the dip, which pulls up on the tongue while the tongue is pushing down, increasing the tongue weight even more.
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A dynamic loading factor of 10 would probably be reasonable, so for a static tongue weight of 1000 lbs you would likely want to figure on your structure being able to support 10 time that. Then if you are doing an accurate calculation using engineering formulas that include the tensile strength of the load bearing members you might want to double that again depending on useful life span and if any particularly rough roads are anticipated. But that's just a guess based on 5 decades of fabrication experience. YMMV
Jim
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I think the answer is to forget that idea as a failure that'll end up on Facebook.
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Agree on that one from enough personal experiences in general. this one seems pretty sketchy and the downside is way way down there on what could happen and nobody wants to even think about a 35,000 rolling hunk of steel deciding to take off on its own, trust me I seen what happens at 3mph. ugly
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option B. Sell it and buy a large truck.
The safe way to do it in this instance.
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I agree, I started looking at trucks and plan to sell the bus.
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Before throwing in the towel, it seems touring bands often haul a trailer with their equipment. You might call a few charter bus companies out of Nashville as they cater to that crowd. You'd likely get some real world insights what they do to make it safe. No idea what the typical load would be but might be worth a couple calls
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Prevost offers 2 tow recievers which are Integrated into their engine cradles, 10,000 lbs. and a 15,000 lbs. Entertainer's will typically take a trailer that has either dual 7500lb or 10K axles on tour. Gary Benett can fix you up with a custom bolt in hitch for your 9.
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I took a look under the DL3 and I don't think there's much to be gained by trying to add reinforcement under the cradle. The bottom of the cradle already follows the line you would take in adding something so it's not like you could get much in the way of triangulation. I suppose you could go to the bottom of the suspension frame for the tag but in the end it just might not be enough to be worth the effort.
Jim
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Before throwing in the towel, it seems touring bands often haul a trailer with their equipment. You might call a few charter bus companies out of Nashville as they cater to that crowd. You'd likely get some real world insights what they do to make it safe. No idea what the typical load would be but might be worth a couple calls
Tour operators are not using a MCI 9 either :^
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Clifford,
Of course not, but they were in the day and should be a good reference when dealing with fairly heavy trailers being hauled behind a bus.
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Entertainers used Eagles and then Prevost, if they were going to tow heavy.
Nobody earning a living put a hitch on an MCI for a heavy trailer, because MCI did not recommend it.
It's only us busnuts that ignore these matters.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
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Merle Haggard used only MCI's but he also didn't pull a trailer he had 5 semi's behind him with all his stuff.LOL :)
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smart @$#! Michael Jackson and Rolling Stones used a charter jet!! who rolls when you can fly, especially to Tokyo! lol
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Merle Haggard used only MCI's but he also didn't pull a trailer he had 5 semi's behind him with all his stuff.LOL :)
Merle's last coach was a Prevost with a hitch :P
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Perhaps the hitch on his PREVOST was to tow his car.
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Mr Haggard to you, Van!
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Merle's
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It sounds like Prevosts are capable of pulling 15k. So I could buy a Prevost.
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A quick search says that Prevost sells 10k and 20k lb hitches. The 20k hitch requires a kit for replacement or modification of the engine cradle. I don't plan to go that route but I'll keep it in mind.
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A quick search says that Prevost sells 10k and 20k lb hitches. The 20k hitch requires a kit for replacement or modification of the engine cradle. I don't plan to go that route but I'll keep it in mind.
Can you post your research links? I would like to know which version I have on my bus...
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https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=22972.0
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It sounds like Prevosts are capable of pulling 15k. So I could buy a Prevost.
Not all Prevost can tow 15,000 lbs up till the mid 90's they would not tow over 5,000 lbs on RV shells ,the converters would install hitches but it was years before Prevost installed a hitch from the factory.I recall seeing a factory installed hitch on our late model 90's was a topic at Vogue in OK it was rated at 7500 lbs
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There should be a plate or label directly on the hitch itself telling what weight is allowed. The link Van posted is very good.
Two more links. They don't tell how to tell the difference, just that there is one:
http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/showthread.php?3714-Towing-connecter
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=3416.0
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Another very good detailed thread for those who are considering towing with the MC-9:
https://www.busconversionmagazine.com/forum/index.php?topic=16989.0
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Merle's
Ya you are right Van man. But his favorite one according to his wife was his MCI 102C. He said they road better and it just felt right. I used to do work for his FIL in Sacramento, CA.
So Ha......... :^ :D :) 8)