BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: JazzBus on September 01, 2021, 05:10:45 AM
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Hello! Found a bus near where I live. It is a 1979 GMC H8H 649. It is currently a church bus, and the church is selling it.
The good: It runs and drives. It looks pretty straight for 800,000 miles. Roof has never been cut. No evidence of any roof leaks, etc. No off smells. Starts up right away and air pressure looks correct. Water pump works well in the rest room. Seats are all original, probably original upholstery.
The bad: Right front suspension bottoms out when going over a bump. (Air bag or shock problem?) Side windows will probably need to be replaced. All bay doors close and latch, but on passenger side one is not quite straight. It has 800,000 miles. The maintenance records don't exist. Air conditioning does not work.
If I follow through with purchasing, the plan is to convert this into an RV. I have researched registering, insuring. Looking for an affordable place to park it now. I understand I may be in for new air bags and possibly shocks, new tires soon, and eventually rebuild for the engine.
So, my questions are: Does this bus still have life after 800,000 miles? Do parts exist for these GMC busses?
Huge thanks! -Scott
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How well did the church maintain it? Likely just volunteers fixing it from one break down to the next. I would press the church on that issue. Bringing it back to safe and compliant condition might be very costly. Doable, but keep in mind the purchase price will be the cheapest part.
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The biggest problem I see on your horizon is a place to do the work involved,, you will need electricity and time at the least, and time will eat you up in cost.. The front problem will be the shocks,, you know the bag is holding the bus up so you just need to check for proper ride height and replace the shocks as a pair....>>>Dan
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Just a little advice here.
Back when dad an I started our charter business we were warned to stay away from repo's and church buses.
I told them I understand the issue with repo's being that if they weren't making the payments most likely they weren't spending $ on maintenance, but asked.
Why church buses?
The answer was most times a bus is wore out (with very little recent maintenance) before it is donated to a church for a tax write off and then the churches maintenance policy is to pray it makes it home!
SO unless the church can give you some real info on maintenance or you just gotta have THAT bus, it's probably better to move on.
Just my honest opinion.
However that said I have done maintenance for some churches that paid quite well to keep their bus up, and I know of several other church buses that have been professionally maintained.
But that is not the norm and if it's been properly maintained there will be SOME KIND of record even if it's only parts receipts!
;D BK ;D
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Where is the bus located? Is it the one I saw recently at a shop in the Milwaukee area?
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Throughout the 1970’s, sales gradually dwindled. In 1972, GM changed the model designations from PD 4108 and 4905 to P8M 4108A and 4905A, respectively – equivalent to its transit coach naming convention. Then finally in 1979, the 4905 was renamed H8H 649. An Allison automatic transmission was available on these last two years of production. The final Buffalo produced, No. 233 pictured above, was delivered to California-based Eastshore Lines in 1980.
Never hear of H8H 649. Learn something new every day. From the quote, it is very late in the production run. Typically, the standard comment here is to find an already converted bus, rather than start from scratch, unless you have some unique requirements. Even if you remodel it, it is the much faster and cheaper route to actually running down the roads.
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my h8h649 is #028
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There was a Buffalo at Interstate in Butler (Milwaukeee) for service this spring. Could have been a 4905 or possibly a H8H model - hard to tell from the outside. Still seated, being used as a church bus. Needed lots of work. Really looked like it was ridden hard and put away wet. Hope the one you're considering was better cared for.
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Where is the bus located? Is it the one I saw recently at a shop in the Milwaukee area?
Not in WI. I am in the Southeast US
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Thanks for the replies. The thoughts on this being a church bus ring true. The maintenance is from volunteers, and not comprehensive. I can just about hear the choir praying the bus back home from a gig as I type this.
This bus is H8H 649 #102. The price is low. Just over what a scrap yard will offer.
I do love a challenge and am looking for a project, but this may be just too much. Thanks again
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You might look into the mid 90's 102DL3. A little more money but a lot of bus.
Jim
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A few questions for you to consider -
Why do you want a class A rv?
Why a bus?
Why do you want to convert your own?
For me,
A class A because I like having my fridge & bathroom inside what I'm driving.
A bus because it is more robust than sticks & staples.
Convert myself because I thought it would be cheaper.
Turns out, my plan to convert was going to cost way, way more. I was able to get a very nice, well built & maintained RV for less than half what the conversion process was going to be -- AND, I was able to use it right away.
Good luck with your quest
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That's great that you found what you were looking for & of coarse the $$$ savings also.
My answers to your questions:
1 - you nailed it & I agree
2 - you nailed it again & not only do I agree, I agree with track experience because it was the insurance pay off on
a totaled Class C S&S that purchased our bus!
3 - You're probably right. The one biggest advantage to a diy conversion Frank Sinatra summed it up in his song:
"I DID IT MY WAY".
If you found something you truly like - & it is a bus then you're nuts like the rest of us & home free! :^
A few questions for you to consider -
Why do you want a class A rv?
Why a bus?
Why do you want to convert your own?
For me,
A class A because I like having my fridge & bathroom inside what I'm driving.
A bus because it is more robust than sticks & staples.
Convert myself because I thought it would be cheaper.
Turns out, my plan to convert was going to cost way, way more. I was able to get a very nice, well built & maintained RV for less than half what the conversion process was going to be -- AND, I was able to use it right away.
Good luck with your quest
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Here was our original calculations...
A S&S motor home is designed to be comfortable when at a campground. They are at best okay on the road. Safety on the road is sometimes questionable but never IMO as good as a bus.
A bus is designed to be on the road and to be safe doing it. Its road manners will be better and more stable. Comfort at a campground is always something which is worked around the original bus layout.
We went with a bus since we were concerned about safety and just didn't want to imagine the results of an accidents in a fiberglass-fronted class A motor home, and our decision was proven out when we walked away from a head-on collision with a Honda.
So for safety - advantage bus.
Cost wise, whether you buy a used seated coach or a previously converted coach you're going to have deferred maintenance and mechanical repairs. Hard to say which is better - some DIY owners are on top of things and got the mechanicals in shape before doing the conversion, others not so much. Some seated coach owners don't have the money for maintenance and just slog through until the bus won't run any more and sell it.
Regarding cost to get a sound bus mechanically - toss up until you know the specifics of the buses being considered.
Conversion of a seated bus is A LOT of work which will take considerable time. And money. And time. Our first bus was a previously converted 4106. We didn't love the layout, but they didn't do any damage to the bus doing it, and the overall quality of the conversion was very high.
We decided that it would be MUCH easier, MUCH cheaper, and MUCH faster to re-do the previous conversion than start from scratch.
Advantage buying a previous conversion, if one can be found which hasn't damaged the original bus too badly, hasn't butchered the electrical too badly, and which has a basic design which will work for you. The only time I'd say that doing one from scratch has the advantage is if you truly want to create your own masterpiece and have ample time, money, and effort available.
Just my take on an already long-discussed topic.
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Kyle owns a Newell they do well against the higher end bus conversions.For some reason bus owners lump all the factory RV in one category that I don't understand because it is not that way.I pushing 48,000 lbs with a 600 hp Cummins all over the west in the mountains and loving it in this stick and staple job,Only thing I don't I don't like is replacing the $1500.00 Headhunter house water pump a $200.00 water pump would have worked just as good life goes on though
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What Clifford said. I have driven buses for 45 years, have owned two bus conversions. Now have a Country Coach motor home. It is an older high end motor home that is very well built. It handles on the road as well or better than any late model MCI or Prevost. So no, you cannot lump all sticks and staples in the same basket. You can buy a used high end motor home for pennies on the dollar.
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What Clifford said. I have driven buses for 45 years, have owned two bus conversions. Now have a Country Coach motor home. It is an older high end motor home that is very well built. It handles on the road as well or better than any late model MCI or Prevost. So no, you cannot lump all sticks and staples in the same basket. You can buy a used high end motor home for pennies on the dollar.
I never worry about our safety in our Magna the double box frame from front to rear this thing will take a hit
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consider a school bus to start with. then you can develop your skills and learn important layout needs. they are really cheap used as no subsidy when they hit ten years old. Very reliable too. THEN, if really serious after some use, you can look for a nice coach shell.
takes a lot of talent, woodworking, plumbing, electrical, design and layout, etc.
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I never worry about our safety in our Magna the double box frame from front to rear this thing will take a hit
What did that safety and quality cost you though? How does it compare in price to the average bus conversion?
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2000s Country Coach or similar for less than $100,000. Clifford's and ours are 2007 and over $100,000. That is comparable to a professionally done bus conversion. Or a really good DIY one in those years.
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Newell builds around 35 coaches per year, most are custom built to the buyer's request.
Newells of the 80's can be had for less than $35k. - These won't have slides & '87 was the first of the 102" wide.
Newell uses lots of standard parts, so that's been helpful 8)
Another coach that is often overlooked, BARTH.
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I was looking at Barths before i found my 5a, at the time they were just out of my price range. The very first day of fulltiming, we stopped at the Barth rally at Quartzsite so that i could meet several people that i had come to know on the Barth website....still have it on my favorites list and look at it once in awhile. In fact, i looked at it earlier this morning.
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This bus is H8H 649 #102.
JazzBus -
H8H649-102 was delivered new in September of 1979 as fleet number 173 to Bill Rohrbaugh's Charter Service, HQ'd in Manchester, MD. I also note that this is one of the few Buffalos that came from the factory with the optional V-730 Allison automatic transmission, most were manual 4-spds, so it's a rather rare coach.
This is a Rust Belt bus, so look closely around all the driver's window, the "D" windows, the upstairs skylight windows, and the big rear window, as these are all areas that are prone to rusting on this GMC.
One of the reasons this model is not that popular for conversions is because of the "stadium seating" up front. Thus you lose approximately 8' of floor space compared to a coach with a flat floor front to rear. This, for some folk, is offset by the three huge baggage bins for house systems and "stuff."
Personally, since it's still a seated coach, I would purchase it and then turn around and donate it to the Museum of Bus Transportation in Hershey, PA (or the one in NJ), primarily due to it's rare option of the automatic from new. Take the tax write-off and go searching for an Eagle, MCI or Prevost that's already converted (especially one from a new shell) to live with for awhile and then remodel to suit mama's tastes. But that's just me.
It's your money, time, and energy, do it YOUR way. . . ;)
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
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The owning of a vintage bus is it’s own “hobby”, and a costly one. There is no way to logically justify one for personal use as an RV unless you can fix/work on them yourself.
They will break down when least expected and far from home, cost hunderds of $ just to tow for the repair that will cost thousands of $$ more when you get it there and possibly take weeks to do... (that is if you can find a place even willing to work on it in the first place).
It is very easy to spend over $20,000 in a single year making repairs that you never saw coming. And remember, even if you can do the often unexpected work yourself, you still need to pay for expensive parts and have the proper location, tools, and equipment to work safely.
By the way, I wouldn’t even think about taking a bus on a trip without having a $10,000 emergency repair fund.
I recently talked someone out of pursuing a bus for the above reasons (which are sadly all from personal experience). Buying a bus is signing up for guaranteed financial pain... But they are cool. :o
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WA. preaching this to new fanatics for years. I bought a new tt and used Duramax for Alaska trip this very reason. Canada closed the border, so currently touring US this summer. Hopefully next May. When back, will sell both, and back to Coach.