BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: rancher on January 25, 2022, 07:52:18 AM
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So lets talk Prevost buses that were converted from new shells. Mid 80's to mid 90's just before the series 60 engine. Good and bad? Any of the conversion company's stand out as better or worst. Are certain years better that others? I would like to go 60 series engine but those coach's are out of my budget. Looking for feedback and ideas.
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I don't have experience with factory conversions, but from an old bus driver that has driven them all since 1973, I can tell you that MCI cars are more solid and sturdy, less rattlely, and less complex in all their systems. Prevosts are great coaches, but MCIs are better. A lot of people like Prevosts and would disagree with me, but it is my opinion. I'll take an MCI over a Prevost any time...
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Fred will probably jump in. We both have 1980 Prevost buses. My is a 35 footer and still 96 wide. I am told it is a "shorty" but don't know if that is really what the public calls it. It has no tag wheel. My 6V92 was rebuilt in California by supposedly a reputable place. I have all the paperwork on that and all the service records from the first guy until me (I think I am 3rd). Not many of the 35 footers ever made and I hear Fortravel took a few in 80 and 81 before Prevost quit making them.
We love it. It was handed to me with all new belts, hoses, fluids, 1 year old tires. It has almost no rust and was probably garage kept by all before me. It did have a dying refer and I wanted to keep the dual capability so I took it to the Amish in Shipshewana as recommended by these guys. They changed all the guts after laying it on the floor in my bus and put it back in so it still has the same front. So far flawless and will freeze the milk if set too cold. Also had to replace the inverter. But all good now.
The place I take mine for some service (East Tennessee Luxury Coach) always has about 20 Prevost there. It is all he works on. There are usually a few there like me that still have rivets, but we are getting fewer and fewer and his guys mostly work on the series 60. The owner has to coach the guys when anything 6V or 8V comes in, but they seem to have the parts and oil and like working on something different now and then. So far everything else is still 42 years old and working! Duo therms do hot and cold. Microwave still works. Belly done by Fortravel is wonderful and everything between Prevost and Fortravel seems heavy duty and functional. It rides and handles well and is very quiet. I have to shift the 4 speed Allison a bit more than I expected to keep it from lugging on hills but have grown to actually like doing that.
We have a had a number of RVs and I can't say I am a Prevost Junkie, but the 35 foot length is I think why be bought it.
Best of luck and I hope you find something you like as well as we like this bus.
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Thanks for the reply's I am looking at the MCI's also there just doesn't seem to be a lot of conversions from new shells out there in that mid 80's to mid 90's that is in my price range. Was hoping to get some thoughts on the different company's that were doing conversions back then.
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First off in the motorhome community Prevost does have a certain cachet.
Since Ted and my buses are 1980’s they sort of proceed the bus motorhome craze. In 1980 there were only eight motorhome/entertainer shells built whereas today it’s like 40% of their production line.
Most of the shell buses are goanna have less miles than the over the road couches. I believe my bus has less than 200,000 miles on it; though that is difficult to determine because of an incomplete dash conversion that came with my bus where the speedometer wasn’t working when I got the bus.
I did meet another Prevost owner last week at the bus conversion rally in Quartzsite and he has an entertainer style bus and it has over 700,000 miles on it.
A lot of buses have been re-powered over the years. My observation is that the Eagles and MCI’s have larger engine compartments that make this effort easier.
If you go through my 1980 Prevost build thread you will see where I reference a website that allows you to look up who the original bus was delivered to. That web site is offline now but the contents are available through the internet time machine. Since my bus is a 1980 it has a serial number, not a VIN.
I have no idea who did the original conversion on my bus and I don’t think that it really makes a difference because given the age group that you’re looking at as things are goanna need fixing and it’s not goanna depend on the quality of the converter at this point.
My bus has had numerous makeovers and I am just the latest participant.
Be prepared to shell out $10,000 or more in the first year to correct maintenance and safety issues on the bus.
Just find a bus that interests you and stick with it…
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Fred does more research on Prevost than me and is smarter when he is sleeping than I am when wide awake. I'd encourage you to PM him Prevost questions and the rat pack engine/chassis/ Trani questions. I agree with all he said. Mine was in a little better shape when I got it I guess and it also has close to 190K miles. I look at the Prevost buses when I get mine serviced. There are usually about 20 there waiting for parts or getting a major remodel or electronic upgrade. I'm older (65) and do not need 4 TVs, a fireplace that comes up out of the floor. rope lighting everywhere and push button everything. Half the buses at my repair place have 3 or 4 of those gizmo items needing repair along with whatever else they brought it there to service. I think Fred and I got our buses before Prevost put mirrors on the ceiling and everywhere, including the toilet seat lid. Great if you are Dolly Parton, but the inside of ours looks more like a nice camper. Prevost went ga ga not long after Fred and I got a nice functional interior. But 1980 vintage, we did tear out the purple shag carpet and put vinal down. We took out all the hippie pattern valences and ratty shades and went with a grey upholstery and pull down shades. It looks great. For being 42 years old all the windows and bay doors still work well. All the plumbing and electrical so far so good (except for frying my inverter. my fault).
So don't worry about your budget pushing you into something older. They have their problems, but far fewer "add on" things to aggravate you than what the buying public seems to demand now.
Look for rust, pay a real guy to check the engine, and like Fred said, find one that makes you raise your eyebrows right when you see it. I've not been in an MCI or other coaches and hope you have the opportunity to look at all options before you buy. The opinion of those who have driven many types or drove them for a living probably have the best advice. Best thing is that if you buy a bus that the front half is a Flxible and the back half is a schooley, these guys will still help you.
Best of luck.
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Rancher -
I'm on my third bus. The first was a 35' 1964 GM PD4106, originally owned by Orange Belt States out of Visalia, CA, fleet #130 and aka the original "Sports Car of Buses." It ran like a scalded chicken, and would easily run away from an MCI MC-9 on the I-5 Grapevine in CA. Fastest bus in Orange Belt's fleet. Unfortunately, the intermediate PO had apparently decided to play Jeep with it, and created some severe cracks in the undercarriage where the upper radius rod bushings attach to the chassis - the back end would try to steer the bus between being on the throttle and letting off the throttle. It's now a storage shed in NoCA after sacrificing many of it's good parts to the Pacific Bus Museum's restored '06 since I donated it to the outfit.
My second bus was a 35' 1978 MCI MC-5C, affectionately known as "Tortoise" after a repaint. This coach was converted on a new shell by Angola Coach, based in Angola, IN. Second year of production for the 5C models (JC above had a '77, the first year!), and unfortunately burdened with a transit-style powertrain, where flat out at 2100 rpm you were doing 60 mph. But I owned that bus four years, putting 45,000 miles on it during that period, and it served me well with just routine maintenance. Angola did a nice, solid job on the interior - even being 36 years old when I bought it, there were no squeaks, rattles or odd wind noises while toodling along. I know the current owner, and he's done some nice upgrades. I would probably still have that coach, but for the odd way I found my current coach in 2018.
My current bus is a 40' 1992 Prevost XL, converted on a new shell by Vantaré, back then a division of Rex-Martin Yachts in Sanford, FL (Vantaré is now a division of Featherlite.) A chance meeting with an MC-8 owner in our local Safeway parking lot led me to this coach, which was his 90 year-old father's. Had to go from Spokane, WA to Gilbert, AZ to pick it up at his daughter's house, where it had sat for four years (unopened in the blazing AZ summers) after having a complete documented out-of-frame major overhaul of the 500 hp 8V92T Detroit, caused by a blown radiator hose. Because of it's tenure in AZ, there were a LOT of little things that needed to be repaired due to heat damage, but the "bones" were in good shape, plus only 65 miles on the engine, helped me make the decision to trade up. The interior damage was no fault of Vantaré, their workmanship has been excellent, it' was the PO's fault.
Besides being 14 years newer, five feet longer, and six inches wider, plus the light-colored interior, gives this XL a very spacious feel, almost like it has slide-outs. The majority of the heat damaged interior has been repaired, most of the interior and exterior lighting has been upgraded to LEDs, as well as other items. Routine maintenance takes care of the chassis for the most part, altho I do have a gremlin in the Level-Low leveling system that needs to be tracked down and fixed.
As far as ride and handling, my favorite, by far, was the 4106. A V8 4-spd pushing 23K lbs was quick, agile, and an absolute ball to drive (for a bus!) The MC-5C was like an under-powered Buick - quiet, comfortable, but at 28K#, it's 6v71 struggled with the mountains out here on the West Coast. However, like the tortoise in Aesop's fable, slow and steady got me there (hence the name!) The Prevost is sort of an enigma - it's quiet and comfortable, but has some quirks that have taken a bit of getting used to. It's nice to set the cruise control at 100km (62 mph) and just let it roll, but requires a lot more driver attention, not because of wandering, but because the blow-torch engine's temperature must be monitored constantly, and, at 42K#, following distances must also be watched since this thing seems to take three football fields to get stopped from highway speeds. The bus just feels "heavy" and handles accordingly.
But I like the extra room inside, the extra baggage space downstairs, the extra power from the 8V, the additional gear in the five-speed automatic, the cruise control, the interior amenities, the handy washer/dryer, and the redundant heat sources. Built to high-end yacht standards, the workmanship is extraordinary, especially since the coach is now 30 years old. I also really like that even tho it's got some "modern for it's day" amenities, it's nothing like the complexity of the newest models, plus, being on the XL chassis, it still looks like a bus, as opposed to Prevost's "H" series, which I think look more like a high-end factory stick-n-staple rig.
Be aware that 1994 was the change-over year from the two-stroke 8V92T Detroit to the four-stroke Series 60 at Prevost. You will find some '94s with the two-stroke, and later '94's with the 60. The 60 is the more desirable engine nowadays, even tho it, too, is now obsolete. But don't just automatically rule out a two-stroke - thousands of them powered bus fleets all over the country for years until, as usual, the government got involved and screwed everything up. Not to mention the fact that NOTHING matches the glorious sounds of a two-stroke Detroit at full song!!
As for conversion companies, Angola, Custom Coach, Country Coach, Liberty, Marathon, Royale and Vantaré were all around in the time frame you're looking at, so that gives you quite a few choices.
~~Angola Coach, originally in Angola, IN, opened in 1965 and built conversions on both MCI and Prevost shells, with the MCIs being more rare. They were a small converter, only doing 6-8 coaches a year, but concentrated on quality. In 1994 the founders sold the company, and the new owners pretty much destroyed Angola Coach, closing it down in 2001. IMHO, if you look at an Angola, best it be a pre-1994!
~~Custom Coach from Ohio, now a division of Farber Specialty Vehicles, is the "granddaddy" of the conversion companies, opening in 1955. They tended to build more along the lines of executive models, such as the MC-7s they built for McDonald's, as well as the Madden Cruiser for Coach John Madden. They also built Loretta Lynn's "Coal Miner's Daughter," an MC-9, which she still owns.
~~The original Country Coach did conversions on MCI and Prevost chassis until they went bankrupt in 2008. They're now a division of Winnebago, use their own chassis, and are a high-end version of a typical RV.
~~Liberty Coach, with it's main production facility in North Chicago, IL, has been around since 1968, and still under the original family's ownership. They build a high-end version that's often quite "cutting-edge" and innovative, which also means they can be quite complex, too.
~~Marathon Coach, HQ'd in Coburg, OR, first opened their doors in 1983. Initially, they built units on both MCI and Prevost shells, before switching to Prevosts exclusively. They're considered the "top of the line" top of the line, and have a very loyal following (as do Liberty owners.) Their units tend to be extremely complex, often with proprietary systems that frequently only the factory service centers can fix - sometimes. Lots and lots of remote-controlled items that really appeal to the gadget gurus and tech nerds. (Side note: I knew a fellow in Fresno that had a 1984 MC-9 converted by Marathon's original owners, and it was beautiful, yet just as simple as my '78 Angola. When Robert Schoellhorn bought the company in 1994, it was his vision and drive that took Marathon to the top of the bus conversion industry heap where it still sits today.) Because of their high end status, Marathon's are sometimes jokingly called "rolling bordellos!"
~~Royale Coach began life in 1977 as Royal Motor Coach, founded by George & Mary Cornish in Elkhart, IN. Monaco purchased the company in 1989, taking over full control in 1994, which is also when they added the "e" to the end of Royale. They tend to be kind of a production-line type of operation, with just a few basic floorplans of which the buyer has some flexibility in customizing. If Marathon is the Cadillac, Liberty the Buick, then Royale is your Oldsmobile. They build a really nice coach, tho not as glitzy as a Marathon.
~~Vantaré sort of set the bus conversion industry on it's head with it's first coach introduction in 1991 with the philosophy of building a luxurious coach to yacht standards. They quickly got the attention of NASCAR - where you'll still see lots of Vantarés in the pits - and production boomed when NASCAR's favorite trailer manufacturer Featherlite took interest in Rex-Martin Yacht's creations. Vantarés core attributes are still what attracts the NASCAR crowd, as well as others, to the coaches: yacht quality fit & finish, robust systems, light-weight construction, innovative design, and reliability. I like mine, that's for sure!
Photos of my three coaches below:
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
RJ
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Its beyond me why many owners don't drop those 92's down to 400 hp and enjoy long engine life with a lot less engine heat. So many Prevosts for sale list rebuilt engines at low miles.
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I don't know if the OP is looking for slides or not, but they make a huge difference in space. We have had all kinds of RVs over the years, including two buses that we enjoyed. Then my wife decided we needed more space with slides. So we now have a 2007 Country Coach with four slides. It is as big as a house with the slides out. Amazing!
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Marathon.converted MCi buses, Vantre was a big converter of MCi buses in the 80's,Custom Coach was to since MCI owned Custom Coach for a while.Marathon,Monaco,Country Coach converted Eagle buses to they pop for sale from time to time but bringing more cash than the Prevost and MCI for of the era cost .The H series Prevost is the top of the line in Prevost buses one of my favorites.RJ the Lee family bought Country Coach back from Winnebago. I went bus shopping for a bus and ended up like JC with a Country Coach with 4 slides and 600 HP ISx Cummins I love..If there is any way possible get a bus with a 4 stroke engine you will happier
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RJ Thanks for the post on the information about the convertors. Nice to see some back ground on them.
Lostagain I think any bus with slide outs is way over my budget. Would have to sell a farm to get one of those. If we would happen to end up with a diesel pusher class A then it would probably have slides.
Luvrbus. Trying to stay with a four stroke. In my price range it tough. Have found a few that have been repowered with four stroke's. If I could find the right one that the {BOSS} wife fell in love with I could probably up the budget and get into a newer one with a four stroke. For now the looking continues.
Keep the ideas coming. If you see something that may fit the bill please reach out with the infomation on it. I am sure there are ones listed that I haven found yet. Have been looking at a couple factory built toterhomes on truck running gears.
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just remember that they are like cars. They lose value. Just be patient for a few years. One in your price range will show up. Right now there is a big demand for Prevost conversions, and they are priced accordingly. Just wait for interest rates jumping, triggering another recession, major market correction, etc.
And they are a fad right now for many of the ones posting on Facebook. A lot of them will lose interest in a few years when tiring of fuel, maintenance, and campground costs. Fads come and go all the time.
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You need to check a pre 1985 Prevost careful they can be beyond repair because of rust ,I have seen several go to the scrap yard because of rust,if you find a super buy watch out
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I recently made flight (speeding down I75) to Tampa to nail a great (I thought) purchase of a 2006 one owner no accidents GMC Envoy with 62,000 mi. for a vehicle to stow away in the Tok AK garage. It was a trade in at a Subaru dealer. It was a sharp vehicle until I looked under the back bottom. Almost totally corroded gone from the one owner living on the Tampa bay boat ramps with his kayaks - yipes, I ran and the next of 18 buyers in line snatched it - NOT I! :o.
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Thanks guys for some more insight on this. Living in a salt area I am always concerned about rust. That's one of the reasons I have been looking at from the shell conversions and trying to find one that hadn't been used in the winter in the salt country a lot. I have call about a few that the folks bought them last year and now have figured out they are over there head and trying to resell them. I haven't seen anything in the bus conversions and toterhomes I have called about aren't moving too fast. Wife is going to retire in July this year so if we don't find the right set up by then we may just pickup a fifth wheel camper and use it for a while. We have a low mile one ton pickup we can pull it with. If you know of a good unit that is a good value out there please reach out to me. Not trying to steal any ones unit but not going to over pay just to have one. We have worked to hard for our money and will try not to throw it away. Thanks for all the help.
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There was a 2005 Prevost day coach for sale in Alabama with 415,000 total miles for 85,000.00 not a bad price and I am sure you could make a better deal, everything is in place but would need a remodel for RV use
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Don’t remember if you said your budget or not
But there’s a Prevost for sale 30 miles from me
1993 for 85k
Little high imo
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/665860117910457/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A2635b200-0b15-4843-8e96-2790376dbe5f
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That is Herb Besler's Prevost for sale he took good care of that Prevost has a new 8v92 too plus a new gen set
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6805eagleguy I did see that one listed and its only a couple hundred miles from me. The listing said nothing about a new motor or new gen set. I thought the price was a little high and it was pretty much at the top end of my budget. With a new motor and gen set maybe the price isn't out of line. Its been for sale for some time on different sites. When you get into this price range for not too much more money you can get into a 60 series engine. That's kind of were I would like to be but that's a big investment I am not sure the wife is ready for. Any one know any thing about a Prevost in Lake Havasu AZ that was repowered with a C-10 cat?
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C-10=max hp 350..smallest 60 serries in prevo 430hp up to over 500.
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C-10=max hp 350..smallest 60 serries in prevo 430hp up to over 500.
The 11.1 series 60 in Prevost were 350 to370 hp I owned a H-41 with the 11.1 series 60 the C-10 should be ok in 40 ft bus tons are running around with 350 hp 6v92 engines .Now the common setting for the C-10 in buses was 385 hp with 1350 ft lbs of torque they bump the C-10 up to 425 hp with 1450 ft lbs of torque in trucks
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C-10=max hp 350..smallest 60 serries in prevo 430hp up to over 500.
I also hear that since CAT stopped making truck engines that overhaul parts are extremally hard to find.
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I also hear that since CAT stopped making truck engines that overhaul parts are extremally hard to find.
I had not heard that. Had a buddy have one of his KW's with a 3406E inframed about six months ago and there were no serious issues with parts. It took a little bit to get them in. The shop had every thing to do the job before he took the truck in.
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https://dieselengineparts.highwayandheavyparts.com/blog/why-did-caterpillar-stop-manufacturing-on-highway-diesel-engines-sdp-engines-explained
Too bad. Cats always had a reputation of The best premium engine.
Who's next? Cummins
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https://dieselengineparts.highwayandheavyparts.com/blog/why-did-caterpillar-stop-manufacturing-on-highway-diesel-engines-sdp-engines-explained
Too bad. Cats always had a reputation of The best premium engine.
Who's next? Cummins
Cat gambled, and lost, with their on highway emission control strategy. They chose to exit, as the money required to reverse their fortunes, and the damage to their reputation, the math didn't add up.
The last few years of Cat were horrible fuel economy, sweet spot for fuel was less than 150 rpm wide, consumption spiked hard on either side.
Edit: and they got caught violating
https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/caterpillar-inc-clean-air-act-settlement
Cummins is the only independant left, and they are in strategic alliances with many OEM, as well as deeply integrated with Eaton, the transmission company.
They have been in the natural gas arena since it was invented, and have that throughly sorted out.
Cummins isn't going anywhere.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
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We'll see. Bigger outfits that them have gone down the tubes. Govt will keep tightening emission regulations to force electric conversion. Easier to accomplish ultimate goals with increasing tougher regulations that laws banning undesired. Like the regs going on with guns, for example.
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And just what are they going to do with all the extra gas and diesel once electric has taken over hmm? Still need lubricating oil. Still need grease. Still need tar for asphalt. Take that out of the crude and you have diesel and gas left over. Where do you put that?
Jim
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And just what are they going to do with all the extra gas and diesel once electric has taken over hmm? Still need lubricating oil. Still need grease. Still need tar for asphalt. Take that out of the crude and you have diesel and gas left over. Where do you put that?
Jim
As rocket fuel and escape the planet?
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I had not heard that. Had a buddy have one of his KW's with a 3406E inframed about six months ago and there were no serious issues with parts. It took a little bit to get them in. The shop had every thing to do the job before he took the truck in.
Cat parts are not hard to find every highway engine they built were used in their off road equipment before being modified for highway use
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It'll work out. Less exploration, less supply. Everyone thought we could never get away from coal at one time. Yes it's still needed though, but much less. I'm not necessarily hyped on electric, but who ever thought we would go to the moon? Although, there are still those convinced it was staged here somewhere.
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A deciding factor on CAT leaving the on highway market was truck manufactures decided to do in house engines the 3406-C-15 has been around for 50 years it set the gold standard for truck engines running a million miles back in the 70's,Cummins and Detroit played catch up for 20 years,they were never good on fuel milage but when called on to work they were head of the class.You have to give CAT credit if they made it 50 years ago the dealers with truck shop will service it they didn't tell you that you are on your own
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I still have the same question any one have any knowledge on the Prevost in LakeHavasu AZ that has had a repower with the Cat C-10 engine. The coach is thirteen hundred miles from me so taking a quick look myself isn't probably going to happen. I wouldn't have a problem to pay someone or a shop to look at the coach. Thanks again for all the post so far.
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I still have the same question any one have any knowledge on the Prevost in LakeHavasu AZ that has had a repower with the Cat C-10 engine. The coach is thirteen hundred miles from me so taking a quick look myself isn't probably going to happen. I wouldn't have a problem to pay someone or a shop to look at the coach. Thanks again for all the post so far.
I live 20 miles from Havassu I never saw that bus.Kenny has a Prevost with a M-11 Cummins in Havassu that one I know,I can get Kenny to check on it for you with a little info
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luvrbus I sent you a P.M.
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Hello,
Newbie here so hello to all!
I have a 1980 LeMirage 35ft unit with a Royal Coach interior. It was not the original coach interior but a remake somewhere around 10-12 years old. The original is unknown except it was a Michigan Football Fan party suite. Later was remodeled to the Royal layout. I am the 3rd owner and have upgraded carpet, upholstery and leather driving seats. Removed carpet fur from the bedroom walls and painted with redesigned bed layout.
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Photos?!
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Here are a few attached below
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Nice!
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Rick Looks like you have a nice coach. My search for a coach continues.
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Welcome to the very small fraternity of 1980 Prevost owners. Fred is the President and I am the only other guy. I wanted to be Vice President but Fred says I don't count because my bus is only 35 feet long and does not have enough tires. Open that outside door under the driver seat and learn that panel. It looks scary at first but the schematic is well laid out. It will be the source, and solution for some of your "bus stoppin'" issues. I have grown to actually like it because because it is wires and relays. No "electronic" stuff us newbie guys will ever solve. Kind of like working on a big lawn mower....
You have found a Beautiful coach and I hope to see it in person some time.
Best regards,
Ted
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I live 20 miles from Havassu I never saw that bus.Kenny has a Prevost with a M-11 Cummins in Havassu that one I know,I can get Kenny to check on it for you with a little info
[/quote
Just checking to see if you got the P.M. I sent you Thanks.
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Hello,
Newbie here so hello to all!
I have a 1980 LeMirage 35ft unit with a Royal Coach interior. It was not the original coach interior but a remake somewhere around 10-12 years old. The original is unknown except it was a Michigan Football Fan party suite. Later was remodeled to the Royal layout. I am the 3rd owner and have upgraded carpet, upholstery and leather driving seats. Removed carpet fur from the bedroom walls and painted with redesigned bed layout.
Hello Rick and hey welcome to the forum!!!
How about doing a private message to me and give me your email address?
I can then send you a download link to all my bus manuals that I digitally scanned and we can do group email's with Ted.
What engine do you have in your bus?
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Welcome to the very small fraternity of 1980 Prevost owners. Fred is the President and I am the only other guy. I wanted to be Vice President but Fred says I don't count because my bus is only 35 feet long and does not have enough tires.
LOL!!! Hey he's putting words in my mouth!!!
It sounds like you two wound up with buses in better shape then mine. But hey I have done a lot to mine which you can peruse in my build thread...
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Nice!
Thanks. I know it's old but we love it!
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Rick Looks like you have a nice coach. My search for a coach continues.
Thank you Rancher, keep on the look and you will find something soon.
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Hello Rick and hey welcome to the forum!!!
How about doing a private message to me and give me your email address?
I can then send you a download link to all my bus manuals that I digitally scanned and we can do group email's with Ted.
What engine do you have in your bus?
Sent you email
I have the 6V92, about 8 miles per gallon. Gen set with ac on uses .60 gph. All 3 cruise air are working. Helps my nephew is an ac tech with a handy parts truck! I do have a thermostat that you can't touch do to worn contacts, so just leave on max
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Welcome to the very small fraternity of 1980 Prevost owners. Fred is the President and I am the only other guy. I wanted to be Vice President but Fred says I don't count because my bus is only 35 feet long and does not have enough tires. Open that outside door under the driver seat and learn that panel. It looks scary at first but the schematic is well laid out. It will be the source, and solution for some of your "bus stoppin'" issues. I have grown to actually like it because because it is wires and relays. No "electronic" stuff us newbie guys will ever solve. Kind of like working on a big lawn mower....
You have found a Beautiful coach and I hope to see it in person some time.
Best regards,
Ted
Understood! Currently only issue is cruise control. Need to check fuse.
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Rancher -
8
I'm on my third bus. The first was a 35' 1964 GM PD4106, originally owned by Orange Belt States out of Visalia, CA, fleet #130 and aka the original "Sports Car of Buses." It ran like a scalded chicken, and would easily run away from an MCI MC-9 on the I-5 Grapevine in CA. Fastest bus in Orange Belt's fleet. Unfortunately, the intermediate PO had apparently decided to play Jeep with it, and created some severe cracks in the undercarriage where the upper radius rod bushings attach to the chassis - the back end would try to steer the bus between being on the throttle and letting off the throttle. It's now a storage shed in NoCA after sacrificing many of it's good parts to the Pacific Bus Museum's restored '06 since I donated it to the outfit.
My second bus was a 35' 1978 MCI MC-5C, affectionately known as "Tortoise" after a repaint. This coach was converted on a new shell by Angola Coach, based in Angola, IN. Second year of production for the 5C models (JC above had a '77, the first year!), and unfortunately burdened with a transit-style powertrain, where flat out at 2100 rpm you were doing 60 mph. But I owned that bus four years, putting 45,000 miles on it during that period, and it served me well with just routine maintenance. Angola did a nice, solid job on the interior - even being 36 years old when I bought it, there were no squeaks, rattles or odd wind noises while toodling along. I know the current owner, and he's done some nice upgrades. I would probably still have that coach, but for the odd way I found my current coach in 2018.
My current bus is a 40' 1992 Prevost XL, converted on a new shell by Vantaré, back then a division of Rex-Martin Yachts in Sanford, FL (Vantaré is now a division of Featherlite.) A chance meeting with an MC-8 owner in our local Safeway parking lot led me to this coach, which was his 90 year-old father's. Had to go from Spokane, WA to Gilbert, AZ to pick it up at his daughter's house, where it had sat for four years (unopened in the blazing AZ summers) after having a complete documented out-of-frame major overhaul of the 500 hp 8V92T Detroit, caused by a blown radiator hose. Because of it's tenure in AZ, there were a LOT of little things that needed to be repaired due to heat damage, but the "bones" were in good shape, plus only 65 miles on the engine, helped me make the decision to trade up. The interior damage was no fault of Vantaré, their workmanship has been excellent, it' was the PO's fault.
Besides being 14 years newer, five feet longer, and six inches wider, plus the light-colored interior, gives this XL a very spacious feel, almost like it has slide-outs. The majority of the heat damaged interior has been repaired, most of the interior and exterior lighting has been upgraded to LEDs, as well as other items. Routine maintenance takes care of the chassis for the most part, altho I do have a gremlin in the Level-Low leveling system that needs to be tracked down and fixed.
As far as ride and handling, my favorite, by far, was the 4106. A V8 4-spd pushing 23K lbs was quick, agile, and an absolute ball to drive (for a bus!) The MC-5C was like an under-powered Buick - quiet, comfortable, but at 28K#, it's 6v71 struggled with the mountains out here on the West Coast. However, like the tortoise in Aesop's fable, slow and steady got me there (hence the name!) The Prevost is sort of an enigma - it's quiet and comfortable, but has some quirks that have taken a bit of getting used to. It's nice to set the cruise control at 100km (62 mph) and just let it roll, but requires a lot more driver attention, not because of wandering, but because the blow-torch engine's temperature must be monitored constantly, and, at 42K#, following distances must also be watched since this thing seems to take three football fields to get stopped from highway speeds. The bus just feels "heavy" and handles accordingly.
But I like the extra room inside, the extra baggage space downstairs, the extra power from the 8V, the additional gear in the five-speed automatic, the cruise control, the interior amenities, the handy washer/dryer, and the redundant heat sources. Built to high-end yacht standards, the workmanship is extraordinary, especially since the coach is now 30 years old. I also really like that even tho it's got some "modern for it's day" amenities, it's nothing like the complexity of the newest models, plus, being on the XL chassis, it still looks like a bus, as opposed to Prevost's "H" series, which I think look more like a high-end factory stick-n-staple rig.
Be aware that 1994 was the change-over year from the two-stroke 8V92T Detroit to the four-stroke Series 60 at Prevost. You will find some '94s with the two-stroke, and later '94's with the 60. The 60 is the more desirable engine nowadays, even tho it, too, is now obsolete. But don't just automatically rule out a two-stroke - thousands of them powered bus fleets all over the country for years until, as usual, the government got involved and screwed everything up. Not to mention the fact that NOTHING matches the glorious sounds of a two-stroke Detroit at full song!!
As for conversion companies, Angola, Custom Coach, Country Coach, Liberty, Marathon, Royale and Vantaré were all around in the time frame you're looking at, so that gives you quite a few choices.
~~Angola Coach, originally in Angola, IN, opened in 1965 and built conversions on both MCI and Prevost shells, with the MCIs being more rare. They were a small converter, only doing 6-8 coaches a year, but concentrated on quality. In 1994 the founders sold the company, and the new owners pretty much destroyed Angola Coach, closing it down in 2001. IMHO, if you look at an Angola, best it be a pre-1994!
~~Custom Coach from Ohio, now a division of Farber Specialty Vehicles, is the "granddaddy" of the conversion companies, opening in 1955. They tended to build more along the lines of executive models, such as the MC-7s they built for McDonald's, as well as the Madden Cruiser for Coach John Madden. They also built Loretta Lynn's "Coal Miner's Daughter," an MC-9, which she still owns.
~~The original Country Coach did conversions on MCI and Prevost chassis until they went bankrupt in 2008. They're now a division of Winnebago, use their own chassis, and are a high-end version of a typical RV.
~~Liberty Coach, with it's main production facility in North Chicago, IL, has been around since 1968, and still under the original family's ownership. They build a high-end version that's often quite "cutting-edge" and innovative, which also means they can be quite complex, too.
~~Marathon Coach, HQ'd in Coburg, OR, first opened their doors in 1983. Initially, they built units on both MCI and Prevost shells, before switching to Prevosts exclusively. They're considered the "top of the line" top of the line, and have a very loyal following (as do Liberty owners.) Their units tend to be extremely complex, often with proprietary systems that frequently only the factory service centers can fix - sometimes. Lots and lots of remote-controlled items that really appeal to the gadget gurus and tech nerds. (Side note: I knew a fellow in Fresno that had a 1984 MC-9 converted by Marathon's original owners, and it was beautiful, yet just as simple as my '78 Angola. When Robert Schoellhorn bought the company in 1994, it was his vision and drive that took Marathon to the top of the bus conversion industry heap where it still sits today.) Because of their high end status, Marathon's are sometimes jokingly called "rolling bordellos!"
~~Royale Coach began life in 1977 as Royal Motor Coach, founded by George & Mary Cornish in Elkhart, IN. Monaco purchased the company in 1989, taking over full control in 1994, which is also when they added the "e" to the end of Royale. They tend to be kind of a production-line type of operation, with just a few basic floorplans of which the buyer has some flexibility in customizing. If Marathon is the Cadillac, Liberty the Buick, then Royale is your Oldsmobile. They build a really nice coach, tho not as glitzy as a Marathon.
~~Vantaré sort of set the bus conversion industry on it's head with it's first coach introduction in 1991 with the philosophy of building a luxurious coach to yacht standards. They quickly got the attention of NASCAR - where you'll still see lots of Vantarés in the pits - and production boomed when NASCAR's favorite trailer manufacturer Featherlite took interest in Rex-Martin Yacht's creations. Vantarés core attributes are still what attracts the NASCAR crowd, as well as others, to the coaches: yacht quality fit & finish, robust systems, light-weight construction, innovative design, and reliability. I like mine, that's for sure!
Photos of my three coaches below:
FWIW & HTH. . . ;)
RJ
I knew Mr Hayworth and his son Mike still runs the bus line today! I worked at Visalia Countru Club across from his house on the 14th fairway. He always had a bus at the house working on it. Club members were always complaining. I still live a 1/2 mile from his house.
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Understood! Currently only issue is cruise control. Need to check fuse.
Mine is not working also and I am going to take a run at fixing it. So far I have identified that the control box is on the wall to the left of the steering column and that there are rubber hoses below the floor that are broken. There is also supposed to be a vacuum pump somewhere nearby that I haven't located yet.
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Cruise control!!!
Oh I remember. They don't allow cruise control in the mini Prevost. Mine came with a brick for the gas pedal. If you can't get yours working, the Prevost part number for the brick is PRE 662-23-CX- BRICk-heavy, one per packet.
Best regards,
Ted
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luvrbus I sent you a P.M.
Just checking in I never heard back if your buddy can check on the coach or not. Not for sure how to check if the P.M. went threw or not. Thanks
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We don't have cruise control but do have throttle lock.
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Just checking in I never heard back if your buddy can check on the coach or not. Not for sure how to check if the P.M. went threw or not. Thanks
I sent you a PM
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We don't have cruise control but do have throttle lock.
That sounds Fun! Like to see some info on that. Trying this weekend to find out about my Cruise. Hopefully just a fuse or loose wire.
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That sounds Fun! Like to see some info on that. Trying this weekend to find out about my Cruise. Hopefully just a fuse or loose wire.
It is original equipment on our 53 4104 with very little info available. I have found nothing in the parts manual and have attached the only mention of it in a diagram from the 4104 maintenance manual.
Parts numbers 6,7 & 8 are the only mention of the hand throttle (throttle lock) system.
The driver end of the cable from the #8 clamp in the diagram is a T handle like a choke cable that will lock the throttle in any position that it is in. We like it and refer to it as our (Neanderthal) cruise control. :)
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Back in the 70's we would be out in western KS or NE on the flat ground in a old cabover truck with a 8V71 and 4:11 or 4:33 rear ends and a direct trans and we would lock the hand throttle against the governor and run like that all night. Poor mans cruise.
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Those Cruise were Bendix which have been gone for 30 years most were replaced with the King which is also not available any longer
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Drove many, many miles at 60 mph with the hand throttle locked in the MCI Courier 96...
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the only on I know that is currently available at reasonable price is the Rostra. Originally designed for cars, works well for coaches with air throttle and can be used on a 4104 with activator back at engine. several dip switches to customize the settings. They make both vacuum and electronic versio versions, and the kit comes with lots of adapters and brackets, etc. These have also been used successfully on Motorcycles and scooters.
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I will post cruise this weekend. It's attached on turn sig lever and is in Prevost manual
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Also a member of the 80 Prevost club, just mine is an 40 ft'er. We are out there.
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Well in very new here too, but welcome to the group!
As with all of us we welcome to see your rig.
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Welcome!
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MBLM47
See if Freds will let you be Vice President!
Rick West and I only have 35 footers and we would like a shot at Secretary and Treasurer. Under current bylaws (written by Fred) we are too small to hold office in the 1980 Prevost Club. As a Newbie you may be unaware that Fred (Freds) is the President of the 1980 Prevost club (self appointed). However, as owner of a REAL Prevost (40 foot minimum) you may have influence on the Kingdom.
I know Rick and I are just little bus people, but in this era of celebrating diversity we appeal to your sense of fairness and hope you can help us. No need to PM us offline as Fred is a computer guy, knows we are up to something, and has already hacked our accounts.
Welcome aboard and if you get the chance, see what you can do....
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Hey, the group is growing! I'm going to appoint our ausie doodle Holly as a Board Member
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Rick. I can see you have experienced the 90 degree picture problem. We have all complained about it. Solution offered by BCM was way too complicated. Short version to fix is one of the following:
1 Ask people to turn their computer sideways to see your picture
2 Use a camera, not phone, and they post straight
3 I turned my phone 90 degrees sideways (clockwise) before I took the picture and that worked. But it was a pain in the fanny
I just always dig out our old digital camera (look in your junk drawer, it is still there) and download pics to your computer and they upload fine. When you post, you will see in the upper right corner a chance to modify, remove and it gives you time to change it before it "sets up". So try posting a few pics that way until you figure out a solution that works for you. You can always dump the post if they go sideways on you.
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Thanks, I tend to landscape on most photos to get better shots...you now these 35ft units need all the help they can get :)
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Be proud my brother! We have a Prevost sports car! Mine goes fast enough. Stopping has been a challenge since I was used to driving sticks and staples rigs before this. I just put rubber bumpers on the front and back. Front ones to save the people in front of me. Back ones to keep the College girl texting in her Kia from denting my bumper at a stop light...
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or deal with the problem and fix it here.
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Be proud my brother! We have a Prevost sports car! Mine goes fast enough. Stopping has been a challenge since I was used to driving sticks and staples rigs before this.
Actually we do adjust and hey in a sort of panic stop situation the feedback loop is how many thing go crash behind us inside of the couch as we jump on the binders. Which is moderated by how intense our pre-departure inspection is!!!!
I have learned that the bus doesn't move until I do an exterior and internal walk through before any movement!!!!
Being a nerd I especially pay attention to the portable high tech items...
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When Rita is not with me I suck at securing the inside. Last trip to Shipshewana Indy for a fridge and to Chattanooga for service I was sans Rita. Indy trip: A hard breaking for a stop sign runner - one of the dinner table chairs on wheels came to the dash with a crash. Twice going to Chat I forgot to close the toilet seat lid. Very loud and disconcerting. The first time I stopped to see what was broken!
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always do a pre flight check to see if everything is nailed down , my wife checks 1st then just b4 we leave I do a check again and most times we are good.
On the trip south this year in South Carolina cuz there roads are crap we hit a pot hole that made the coach bounce so bad even though the upper cabinet door was closed and latched the tea cups and her old brown betty bounced and smashed in the cabinet . We thought something broke but did not know what untill we stopped at a rest stop and opened the cabinet and found 2 cups, 1 corel plate and the brown betty were smashed .
never b4 has anything ever broke inside a cabinet and because we could not move 2 try and get around the mother of a pothole we just held our breath as we hit it . We saw lots of pot holes 8-12" square that were so deep u could see the rebar 6" down and still see below that
But as soon as we crosed into Georgia ( I95 sb ) the road opened up wider and was smoooooth
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I just installed gas struts on my cabinet doors.
(https://www.crystalpoint.com/cpdownloads/public/outgoing/Freds/CabinetGasStruts.jpg)
Which will hopefully remove the slamming that I sometimes hear going around corners or contents coming out if something falls over inside the cabinet.
The doors on my cabinets are of a heavy plywood and replacing the hinges had no effect. These do the job and when they are folded down it takes a tug to get the door open.
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Thanks for the warm welcome guys, but I am actually an old member of the boards. Lost all my log ins and account info so just started a new one. Used to be MB LeMirage. But again thanks for the welcomes. BTW 35's are are the sleek sports car of the Prevost line and will outrun mine any day of the week.
Cheers.
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I KNEW it Fred! A Trojan Horse Newbie!!! I KNEW he wasn't a new guy......
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I KNEW it Fred! A Trojan Horse Newbie!!! I KNEW he wasn't a new guy......
LOL!!!! You know for the longest time I thought that I was the token Prevost guy in an ocean of MCI's, hey I am not alone!!!!
Anyway we are all heavy metal brothers with a dose of stainless steel and rivets!!!! With heavy hearts that are mostly powered by smoking Detroit Diesels with at least six points of contact with the road...
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Anyone know any information on a 1994 Prevost XL40 Hoffman conversion that is for sale in the state of Maine? It does run the 60 series engine. A broker is selling it for a owner so it tough to talk to the owner. Sounds like a three owner coach. Does anyone know any one or business up that way that could check it out? Thanks again for all help. It tough to shop from home when most we are finding are thousand to fifteen hundred miles from home.
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I clicked on your profile to see where you live but no information. Location? It is frustrating and I can sense you are hungry. Tires run close to 1K per and you can press the broker for that information. It is no small thing. Other things are hard to tell without seeing it. In 2003 (before bus fever) Rita and I lived in Denver and wanted an Allegro bus. We shopped for 6 months for a slightly used one. One was an hour away but pretty trashed. We drove 8 hours to one in Texas that looked fantastic. But the owner's wife reeeeally liked cats. Then flew one way from Denver to Niagara Falls for what must be the winner. We flew back home. That was a spendy "no go" since we had to buy one way tickets back home at the counter. We almost quit looking at used vehicles. We finally found a dandy near home about a month later and we had it for 3 years. The third year we went full time. It served us well.
You have to go see them. You have to be ready to walk away. Go see some near you that you don't want so you don't get all ga ga when you see the first one you think you might buy.
Bad bus fever goes something like this: Wow...a Prevost! We must have it!
That will cut your throat.
Hang in there Rancher. They come on the market all the time. People get old. People get tired of the upkeep. There will be one.
Best advice? If your wife does not like it walk away......
Having said that, I hear Hoffman does a nice conversion. Hopefully a BCM guy can go see it. I live north of Atlanta and am retired. Let me know if you need one looked at near me.
Best of luck in your quest
Ted
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Ted Thanks for the reply. Went and changed my profile to add location. I am in eastern Nebraska. Only one I have found even close is couple hundred miles away which is close but the wife didn't like the pictures so there no point in wasting our time and the sellers time to just look. I don't mind spending money to have someone look or going to look myself. With everything that is going on in the world not ready to get on any planes. Its not the time of the year to make any long distant trips. Winter has been good here but not so much in other places. I have no problem walking away. I don't want to buy something to have one and have a money pit. If nothing else when summer comes and the wife retires we can pickup a fifth wheel camper and use it to go around the country shopping. We already have a late model low miles one ton pickup. Going to have a three way call today with the owner, broker and myself. We will see what is said by the owner.
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I grew up in wahoo Nebraska, now I’m out west lol, good to know of another bus (seeking) person in Nebraska!
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Rancher, if the coach is in Maine, you might want to speak with Spike or Jim Michaud. Jim specializes in the bus sales end, Spike in the appraisal end.
Physically, they're in southern New Hampshire, so unless the coach is in Northern Maine, they may know of the unit or be able to look -- and I'd trust anything either one says.
https://busesonline.com/about/ (https://busesonline.com/about/)
Arthur
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Rancher, if the coach is in Maine, you might want to speak with Spike or Jim Michaud. Jim specializes in the bus sales end, Spike in the appraisal end.
Physically, they're in southern New Hampshire, so unless the coach is in Northern Maine, they may know of the unit or be able to look -- and I'd trust anything either one says.
https://busesonline.com/about/ (https://busesonline.com/about/)
Arthur
x2
I bought my MCI from them back in 2005 and they were great 2 deal with and they let me use there shop and tools 2 install a trailer hitch
( the same day )so I could tow my truck that my son and I drove down to do the deal
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I grew up in wahoo Nebraska, now I’m out west lol, good to know of another bus (seeking) person in Nebraska!
I have done a fair amount of business in Wahoo my current skid load came from there. I grew up in SE Nebraska went to college in Milford and never went home. Retired kind of from town job and just working on my farms now days. Years ago I used to get to McCook and south west Nebraska a fair amount.
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Rancher, if the coach is in Maine, you might want to speak with Spike or Jim Michaud. Jim specializes in the bus sales end, Spike in the appraisal end.
Physically, they're in southern New Hampshire, so unless the coach is in Northern Maine, they may know of the unit or be able to look -- and I'd trust anything either one says.
https://busesonline.com/about/ (https://busesonline.com/about/)
Arthur
This is good information to know. I will keep them in mind. We will see how this call with the owner, broker and me goes. This one is really some over our budget but if its the perfect fit I can probably get the BOSS wife to spend a little more. Its got the 60 series engine is one of the reasons I am interested. Once again thanks for all the posts and keep them coming.
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The moon? When did we go to the moon? I've been spaced out before but I don't remember no stink'n moon! :o
;D BK ;D
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Find Blue Ridge Ga Rancher and if one is within 3 hours drive, I'll go. I am NOT a mechanic but can tell you if it stinks! We walked away from cat pee in Texas and the Niagara Falls one had a cigar chain smoker owner. He actually smoked one while we looked at it....for 3 minutes. Said he never smoked in the bus. The leather on the console left of the driver seat had burn marks. We didn't walk past the front. It stunk.
I can face time and know how to look at tires and engine basics. These days using face time on the smart phone can let you look at things without being there. Forgot about the not fly because of Covid thing. We had the shots, the booster, and both got Covid two weeks ago. Still don't want to fly.
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I know 2 BCM guys that bought from the same broker I did. And like Sledhead it was a great experience. The two BCM guys and I bought Prevosts through Marty Rhyne in South Carolina. Very honest and buys/sells in several states. Website thebusman is an easy site to navigate. If you tell him your budget and what you are looking for he is easy to talk to. He stays in touch with me and has steered me to a maintenance shop more than once when I had an issue on the road. He says "Where are you? I'll call you back". And he does!
He knows many people in the bus world in several states. Maybe worth a shot.
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if you find one that smells, you can use an ozone generator to kill the odors. I used one with success in our 4905. Previous owners wife must have spilled or leaked perfume in it. Took two tries, but odor gone. Bought mine off ebay. Works fine. Also used it in a couple cars with nasty odors sucessfully.
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So we had the call between me, owner and broker. Didn't come away from the call with a good feeling about the coach. A fair amount of things just didn't line up and seem right. In the past when I have that feeling its time to move on. Once again thanks for all the posts and keep them coming. The search will continue.
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Bummer, but good on you for trusting your instincts. Patience grasshoppa. You don't need it right now. More on the market every day. Not a bad idea to 5th wheel around and look at them in person when the boss retires. Not hard to sell a fifth wheel right now and probably for a while.... We walked from a Prevost some years ago that sounded great and all I can figure is they air brushed the pictures. It was near Daytona. 1/2 mile from the ocean and rust, rust, rust. It was under a carport roof and the salt air just ate it. Good luck and hang in there. My 3 hour drive offer stands.
Ted