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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: luvrbus on July 14, 2023, 08:36:57 AM
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Where are you guys buying the roof top AC,since Thor owns Coleman now the Mach 8 plus are imposable to buy every place is on backorder and prices have doubled .I need the the Mach 8 I am not interested in any other brand ,the Mach 8 + will cool in 125 F degrees and is low profile I need for a H-40 Prevost
Thanks
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They show they have them but I would verify with a phone call for sure. It seems everyone else is showing backorder.
You're right about the price. It has doubled. I knew it wouldn't get better when Thor bought them out.
David
https://onlinervsupply.com/products/coleman-mach-8-rooftop-air-conditioner-ultra-low-profile-rv?currency=USD&variant=43058935070912&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkqvd-oCPgAMVKAGtBh2qTwK3EAQYBSABEgKVKPD_BwE
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They show they have them but I would verify with a phone call for sure. It seems everyone else is showing backorder.
You're right about the price. It has doubled. I knew it wouldn't get better when Thor bought them out.
David
https://onlinervsupply.com/products/coleman-mach-8-rooftop-air-conditioner-ultra-low-profile-rv?currency=USD&variant=43058935070912&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkqvd-oCPgAMVKAGtBh2qTwK3EAQYBSABEgKVKPD_BwE
Thanks David they have 1 for ducted use I need non-ducted without the condensation pump
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In stock they say.
https://solartown.com/rv-and-marine/coleman-mach-8-plus-cub-9-200-btu-white-low-profile-rooftop-air-conditioner/?sku=47201B876&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ZiHg82PgAMVK-bjBx2KcQGZEAQYByABEgLyMPD_BwE
https://rvpartsusa.com/coleman-mach-mach-8-plus-cub-9200-btu-air-conditioner-textured-white-47201-076/?gad=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ZiHg82PgAMVK-bjBx2KcQGZEAQYAiABEgLdpvD_BwE
https://www.beachaudio.com/coleman-mach-47201b676-mach-8-plus-cub-9-200-btu-a-c-arc/?utm_source=adwords&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ZiHg82PgAMVK-bjBx2KcQGZEAQYDyABEgKFCfD_BwE
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In stock they say.
https://solartown.com/rv-and-marine/coleman-mach-8-plus-cub-9-200-btu-white-low-profile-rooftop-air-conditioner/?sku=47201B876&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ZiHg82PgAMVK-bjBx2KcQGZEAQYByABEgLyMPD_BwE
https://rvpartsusa.com/coleman-mach-mach-8-plus-cub-9200-btu-air-conditioner-textured-white-47201-076/?gad=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ZiHg82PgAMVK-bjBx2KcQGZEAQYAiABEgLdpvD_BwE
https://www.beachaudio.com/coleman-mach-47201b676-mach-8-plus-cub-9-200-btu-a-c-arc/?utm_source=adwords&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ZiHg82PgAMVK-bjBx2KcQGZEAQYDyABEgKFCfD_BwE
Thanks but those are Cubs for vans or pickup camper 9000 BTU is not much in 40 ft bus in this AZ heat,I need the mama bear
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Is 15000 btu it or do they have bigger?
https://colemanmachac.com/coleman-mach-8-air-conditioner-47204-076-15-000-btu-a-c-the-new-mach-8-arctic-white/
https://colemanmachac.com/coleman-mach-mach-8-plus-roughneck-air-conditioner-47204-0795-black/
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They may have one since they are asking twice the price of other sellers the 240v rating is a ? for me though
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If you got the money honey they got the a/c.
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Did you call John Zahn. Because you have an active subscription with BCM, you will qualify for 10% off any order over $50. 714.703.8200
https://www.rvpartscenter.com/
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capacity is dependent on input power/voltage. I think 12k is about the max on 120v.
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capacity is dependent on input power/voltage. I think 12k is about the max on 120v.
15,000 btu Colemans do good on 110v,Coleman makes a 2 compressor unit maybe those are 240v
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110 volt still big money.
https://colemanmachac.com/coleman-mach-mach-8-w-hp-47024-079-1500btu-black/
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Not long a go it was cheaper to toss the unit and replace it not now ,I am going to replace the motors and call it a day.The motors cost as much now as the unit cost 2 years ago lol the news says inflation is over :-\
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It mostly depends on the seer rating. At one time we thought a seer over 10 was very good. Now it appears that a few of the mini-split units are advertising a seer of 36. That is 3.6 times as efficient as the old seer 10.
Why does that matter? Simply because if your seer 10 unit at 12K btu draws 15 amps of full current load a 36 seer 15K btu unit would pull 4.2 amps. Meaning at least theoretically that a 15 amp circuit could support a 36K btu unit on 115v. We are not seeing those on the market but that doesn't mean we won't. It just requires a mini-split manufacturer to recognize the market potential and build one. Somebody should suggest it to the Chinese.
Or maybe to the Almish. Ted, how about your buddies up in Napanee? You think they would be interested?
Jim
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Spend the extra money for the heavy duty version. Thicker tubing and heavier duty components.
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Spend the extra money for the heavy duty version. Thicker tubing and heavier duty components.
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A Coleman rep told me the Ruff Neck is just heaver plastic the condensers, evaporators and components are the same except they use metal blower fans blades
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I don't know about that. Just checked. They are indeed built to withstand shock better in off road conditions, for example.
Need to fire that clueless rep
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Only difference I ever saw on one was the way the fan motor was mounted and the fins,I was asking because I thought the shrouds would be better made and wouldn't blow off
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:o
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:o
Where are you,I am next door and it is only 76 degrees 8),Sprit Mountain sign say 132F I think the Indians are reading the asphalt parking lot
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Where are you,I am next door and it is only 76 degrees 8),Sprit Mountain sign say 132F I think the Indians are reading the asphalt parking lot
I saw that yeah, it was 76° in the bus this morning. Also I don't know where these people are getting their forecast. The temperatures from there roll over to place. 😉
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Well, it could be worse. Your bus could be stuck in a snowbank like this Greyhound. ;)
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OR could be here.
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So where are those rooftop units now, about Seer 15? (Might be wishful thinking.) That'd be sucking down about twice the amperage of a good mini-split of the same rating. Makes you wonder who is designing those things.
Jim
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So where are those rooftop units now, about Seer 15? (Might be wishful thinking.) That'd be sucking down about twice the amperage of a good mini-split of the same rating. Makes you wonder who is designing those things.
Jim
Different crowds people buying RV's could care less about a Seer rating, Seer rating is only important to BoonDockers and full timers paying for power,most manufactured RV's stay in campgrounds with the price of power is included in over priced spaces.I have 45,000 btu's in 3 roof tops with 35,000 btu dash air and not setup for boondocking and could care less about the seer because I am always plugged into power and the generator works good if not plugged in. If I was a full timer or boondocker it would be different (maybe) .Jim I don't recall ever seeing a seer rating on roof tops only AMPS
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What Clifford says makes a lot of sense/ Rooftop AC are not designed for indoor use and those ratings are established by the DOE and the HVAC industry AHRI is the trade association representing manufacturers of heating, ventilation, air conditioning, commercial refrigeration (HVACR), and water heating equipment). I'm speculating the work is directed to homes and RV is not in the equation at all. Mini-splits and portable AC units are made for homes so receive ratings.
Measuring amperage while running across the range of cooling is an easy way to know definitately how much your own cooling requires. The ratings provide equipment efficiency but what about all the other factors that determine the actual energy requirements to keep interior at a given temerature. There is so much variability in glazing, insulation, roofing, shade coverage, etc. that SEER rating is only one variable in the true calculation of what energy you use.
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What Clifford says makes a lot of sense/ Rooftop AC are not designed for indoor use and those ratings are established by the DOE and the HVAC industry AHRI is the trade association representing manufacturers of heating, ventilation, air conditioning, commercial refrigeration (HVACR), and water heating equipment). I'm speculating the work is directed to homes and RV is not in the equation at all. Mini-splits and portable AC units are made for homes so receive ratings.
Measuring amperage while running across the range of cooling is an easy way to know definitately how much your own cooling requires. The ratings provide equipment efficiency but what about all the other factors that determine the actual energy requirements to keep interior at a given temerature. There is so much variability in glazing, insulation, roofing, shade coverage, etc. that SEER rating is only one variable in the true calculation of what energy you use.
Very good explanation Don ,all I know about the seer rating the higher it is the longer the unit runs under reduced capacity .lol not good in Az at 122 F we need cold
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If you want to mess with mini split with seer of a million or so, fine. Rooftops are simple, easy to replace and start jacking the efficiency and the price will skyrocket even more. Campers and tt's are a very competitive market. You make a super efficient ac unit and you'll be priced out of the market.
Look for feds to address ac efficiency again soon. Water heaters are on radar now.
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I'm not sure I really agree with all that. Those power hogs on the roof are the single biggest amp suck in the rig, with almost all of the shore line and generator requirements being determined by how many warts you have. How many of you today could get by with a single shore line and still be comfortable in the summer? Not many I suspect. So it goes to more than whether you full time or boondock. Any time you have limited amperage available the power draw is a concern. Especially when you consider that a new 13.5K Btu unit can cost you 3 Kw of power which works out to 13.63amps at 220v. Just to make the math easy let's say a baseline of 1 amp per kw@220.
Now, I've seen warts with seer ratings around 9 and I've seen mini-splits with ratings of 36. That's a 4 to one ratio. That means that your 80K of Btu could cost you 80 amps of power that must be provided just for the AC. That means 17.6 Kw of power btw so a 24Kw genset is about the minimum for that rig.
OTOH if you had a 36 seer rating your energy requirements might be only 20 amps, which is only 4.4 Kw of power, requires a much smaller genny, and if spit between 3 units could each even be powered off a standard 110v circuit giving much more flexibility in the wiring and shore connections. The above is mostly a hypothetical so don't get your underwear in a bunch if your numbers work out a little differently. The idea is the same.
I don't blame anyone for not wanting to jump in and change what they have. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. BUT if the opportunity is there, it makes a lot of sense to go for the lower power requirement. Also it begs the question of why a rooftop unit has to be 4 times less efficient than a mini-split. I get that there are a few valid reasons, but four to one? Come on. That's not even close to realistic.
Jim
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There will never be a high seer rating on roof tops Coleman looked into that several years ago and tossed the idea,maybe the Chinese will make one.No one ever says anything about the problems with mini splits for mobile use lol but I know they have some,and I know mini's take a long time to cool a hot bus like in the hours.I have no problem running 3-15000 btu Colemans off a 50 amp,Roof top AC couldn't be that bad they are you see on the 2-1/2 million dollar conversions
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I get all that, and I'd guess you are just about at the limit of what that 50A service can do. But let's take an example or two based on typical wart construction.
Usually there is a common motor for both sides with a tin wall between them, at least in the older units and probably most of the newer ones too. Why? Because it costs less to keep making them that way. There is no reason why a separate modern efficient fan could not be used on each side except the cost of the redesign. There is no reason why a well insulated barrier wall could not be placed between the condenser and the evaporator. There is no reason why a modern and highly efficient compressor could not be used, in fact this is the one big contributor to the higher seer ratings. Why do they keep insisting on using less efficient compressors? Same reasons they don't redesign the unit as a whole. The volume of sales and the profit potential does not justify the redesign expense to the bean counters. And until someone takes a chance that the more efficient units will sell better it won't.
Jim
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Carrier made a roof top with 1 motor((so did others) and used the condensation to cool the coil,I just took one off because of finding the parts was a problem since Carrier dropped the line.
Van has 13500 btu the blower motor stopped and I ordered a motor going from 1/4 to 1/3 hp to make a 15,000 btu unit roof tops are so simple
I am total electric and don't seem to have a problem but all 3 units never run when it cools inside ,I have ducted roof tops and the insulation seems good I know I have 6 inches in the roof so most of the time only one unit is running 2 at the most lol If I get the programing right one will keep it cool
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Jim hit on the primary reason RV rooftop AC are not more efficient - simply not enough demand from consumers. However, that may change if the boondock/off gird requirement grows enough to have this up on the must have checklist for RV shoppers.
There would be redesigned efficient rooftops today if the demand was there as the technology is well proven and actually not that great an investment in producing newly designed high efficiency units. The costs would be in the retooling and production side. That said, it would not be highly expensive but still doesn't pencil out ROI for makers since the demand volume is not there for the new over the existing, coming back to consumers not pushing for this capabiity.
To provide some perspective think about how many have converted to mini-splits DIY? Look hard because it is likely a rounding error, less than one percent. How many new RV have mini-split over rooftops, probably same share. Nothing is going to change.
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Jim hit on the primary reason RV rooftop AC are not more efficient - simply not enough demand from consumers. However, that may change if the boondock/off gird requirement grows enough to have this up on the must have checklist for RV shoppers.
There would be redesigned efficient rooftops today if the demand was there as the technology is well proven and actually not that great an investment in producing newly designed high efficiency units. The costs would be in the retooling and production side. That said, it would not be highly expensive but still doesn't pencil out ROI for makers since the demand volume is not there for the new over the existing, coming back to consumers not pushing for this capabiity.
To provide some perspective think about how many have converted to mini-splits DIY? Look hard because it is likely a rounding error, less than one percent. How many new RV have mini-split over rooftops, probably same share. Nothing is going to change.
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That may would change if the mini splits were ever redesigned for mobile use right now it is just for the DYI group,I doubt you will see mini splits 40 years old still in use though. The seer rating is a location thing,I just had a new unit installed last year here,the installer told me even if it says 20 seers expect around 10 seer in this heat,in Flagstaff he said the seer rating would be 20,the average for Phoenix is 14 seers is the best they can figure based on how many days you need AC and the temperature,we use AC here 9 months out of the year
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Jim, super efficient air conditioners don't matter to me. I stay at campgrounds or limited boondock with generator. Not going to fool with solar, inverter chargers or lithium ion, nickel metal hydride or whatever. Too old to get into it, with limited payback. BTW, I live in NE. 90 or a little more is about it around here in summer. Been out west two years ago. Too hot out there.
Thought about solar on shop roof-75 to 90k and payback after I'm dead, but what really killed it for me was paying tax on income from it
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Jim, super efficient air conditioners don't matter to me. I stay at campgrounds or limited boondock with generator. Not going to fool with solar, inverter chargers or lithium ion, nickel metal hydride or whatever. Too old to get into it, with limited payback. BTW, I live in NE. 90 or a little more is about it around here in summer. Been out west two years ago. Too hot out there.
Thought about solar on shop roof-75 to 90k and payback after I'm dead, but what really killed it for me was paying tax on income from it
I am with you John plug end and unplug for everything else there is Onan cost me 3 to 4 bucks a hour to use under full load.No way you can recoup all the solar,20k in batteries plus inverters then you need a generator for backup.It is hot here but 3 hours we can be in the 70 degree mountains.The best investment to me in a bus is 30,000 btu dash air
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It is an interesting idea Jim, but I think the Amish at JC Refrigeration are swamped with just the refer business. They still do absorption but now need to meet the demand of the many residential set ups, tying into the solar rage with sometimes in adequate battery poser to run a residential set up swap out. I talked to them recently trying to help a BGM guy, and they are booked...forever ish since the new refers are about as good as the new A/C units.
Walked the dog over the hill today and my neighbor is building a house on the lake. They come from an hour away on weekends to check the progress and stay in their 8 month old 5th wheel. This is a picture of the mobile RV techs using a slick little winch to get the new A/C unit on the roof. They are replacing the rear A/C today since they replaced the front one a month ago. He said they are sealed units. Can't add any freon to it even though the test says it is low. He said the good news is it is still under warranty. Bad news is the new ones are the same thing and they are crap.
I head for Nappanee where we met Jim, end of September for meet number two. I hope you are coming. Rita still can't come this year so my sofa is still open for you if you want it again. I can promise both of my 43 year old Duo Therms still work on hot and cold. If one of them dies, I will look for a newer one. Maybe a 38 year old Air Conditioner. I think before I'd buy a new unit I will just go back to what we did on hot days when I was a kid. Run with the windows down.
I hope you are making good progress on your bus. I'd love to see you get it on the road. Life is not a rehearsal.
Best regards Jim,
Ted
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Even the fridges are sealed to, but all you do is add a $5.00 tap and valve and recharge the units,they sell a lot of AC units and fridges telling people they cannot be charged or find a leak
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Sept 21st to the 24th, it's a possibility but may be hard to do this year due to residuals from the attack of the giant bloody man eating spider that stabbed me 4 times in the gut. They say my convalescence ends in a week but recovery continues for some time afterwards as we all know and with the other things I have to do, appointments and such, well I'll just have to see. I will run up if I can but it may just be for a day or two again. The bus is coming along but I lost pretty much a whole season of prime working time so it won't be ready this year. If I do make it, maybe we can find a chance to run over to JC and speak with them about it. See if they are considering expanding the business.
I can see location playing a part in the seer rating I suppose, of course if you could find a way to park it in the shade that would make a major difference. Probably enough to justify some sort of a portable shelter for longer stops in some cases. I don't know how they actually do the testing that determines the numbers and without that it's just guesswork. But all else being equal the seer rating gives a very valid basis for comparison. In other words, if comparing a seer of 9 to one of 36, a reduction of 50% has you comparing 18 to 4.5 and it's still a four to one ratio.The higher seer unit will always outperform the lower one with less current demand. So there's that anyway.
But like I said, if it ain't broke don't fix it. If your setup lets you do all you want, is reliable and affordable, why spend money just because someone says something else is better? It may be perfectly true, but is it better for you? That's the real question. I'm all about getting the most out of your money.
Jim
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There is no argument about inverter type compressor using less power than a standard compressor,they blow cold air for while the then air temperature will increase as they go along,you can take a iR gun and see that for yourself that is why the run longer because of reduced capacity but it takes less power to run longer,I hang with Coleman because they are made in the US and 80% of the components are made here.I don't do good with the Chinese made $#!%