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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on July 27, 2023, 01:41:52 PM
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If you were to convert a bus from scratch, would you include Propane in your build, or build an all-electric Bus Conversion?
My 1967 Eagle, converted in 1996, was built as an all-electric bus. There is no propane on this bus. After dealing with filling Propane tanks for the past 30 years in bus conversions, I really like this idea. With electric appliances becoming more energy efficient, going all-electric makes much more sense than it was 30 years ago.
Also, with Lithium Batteries and Solar Panels, it is very easy to utilize the real estate on the roof of a bus to power electric appliances for many hours, which would have been very expensive and very heavy 30 years ago.
Also, when I was traveling down the east coast after 911, there were tunnels that I had to stop before entering and turn off my Propane Tanks in order to pass through.
Finding and getting to a Propane service location such as Flying J, was a bit of a hassle too, especially with a 40' bus with a Toad, and even more difficult when off the main highway. I decided that removable portable tanks were much easier, as my MC-9 had. I could remove them and there were many more options for filling them, so if I ever decided to have Propane on board again, I would go this route.
I have an Aqua-Hot heating system that runs on diesel fuel that heats my bus with three radiator-type heaters with fans located in the front, middle, and rear of the bus, and my water is heated the same way, and I can even pre-heat my engine with this same unit on a cold winter day. Therefore, this is another reason I do not need Propane on board. This unit is fueled out of the same fuel tank as the main engine, so I only have to deal with one type of fuel on board, and I have to stop for fuel quite frequently anyway, so if my heating system runs on diesel, it is a one-stop shop.
Another consideration is we have all seen many RV's and some buses explode or catch fire due to Propane accidents, and explosions do not happen with diesel fuel, fires do, but usually not sudden explosions with no warning.
So, the question is, if you were to convert another bus from scratch, and you did not have any appliances or diesel heaters to start with, would you build it to use Propane or be All-electric, and why?
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We enjoy both but mostly propane. We do a lot of boon docking and propane serves us best. We've been in the predominantly propane mode since 1973 without issue. All our tanks are portable @ four 30Lb. cylinders so refills don't need to happen frequently. We also have some portable electric appliances. Hadn't seen an iron nor kitchen mixer that runs on propane & through the years upgraded to supplemental solar and battery banks but propane over time keeps draw off the batteries and manages to keep the genny mostly quiet. :^
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All electric would be the call. I have panels and a 6kW battery and pretty much fully off grid. I just returned after a couple weeks and never went on the pole. The propane left is for the stove which is minimal. An induction plate or two would take care of the stove but not the oven. We don't use it so not a big deal and plan to get a air fryer for the oven replacement.
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We enjoy both but mostly propane. We do a lot of boon docking and propane serves us best. We've been in the predominantly propane mode since 1973 without issue. All our tanks are portable @ four 30Lb. cylinders so refills don't need to happen frequently. We also have some portable electric appliances. Hadn't seen an iron nor kitchen mixer that runs on propane & through the years upgraded to supplemental solar and battery banks but propane over time keeps draw off the batteries and manages to keep the genny mostly quiet. :^
When I was fully propane, I could last most of the summer on my two 30# tanks, but in the winter in cold climates, such as in NH one winter, I would go through two tanks per week. So a lot of this depends on where you plan to spend most of your time. This also should also be considered, so it is not black and white as your mileage may vary as they say.
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Propane is not difficult to find all your Tractor Supply stores sell it ,if you have portables every Walmart has propane exchange, I never had the portable tanks mine were all ways the frame mount non DOT tanks and never expired and never had a problem having it filled.Lol living here in the hot desert in the Valley we have propane dealers on every corner it seems like. As a owner of the diesel fired and electric Aqua Hot I wouldn't bet on having good heat or a hot shower when you need it, with Thor owning AquaHot now we maybe smelling bad and freezing our asses off Gary
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Propane is not difficult to find all your Tractor Supply stores sell it ,if you have portables every Walmart has propane exchange, I never had the portable tanks mine were all ways the frame mount non DOT tanks and never expired and never had a problem having it filled.Lol living here in the hot desert in the Valley we have propane dealers on every corner it seems like. As a owner of the diesel fired and electric Aqua Hot I wouldn't bet on having good heat or a hot shower when you need it, with Thor owning AquaHot now we maybe smelling bad and freezing our asses off Gary
Propane is not hard to find in most cities, but getting a 40' bus with a toad into some of the places can be challenging even for those of us who used to deliver heavy equipment on flatbed trailers. But with the flatbed trailer, I pulled behind a Mack with an 18-speed gearbox, I could usually drag the trailer over anything in the way. ;D So this is why if I were ever to go back to Propane heat and appliances, I would have portable tanks. But with an all-electric coach and a diesel heater for me, it is not an issue.
As for the Aqua-Hot system, it took me about three years to get the kinks out of it after sitting idle in Phoenix for three years before I bought this bus, Lloyd DeGerald now has it running like a fine-tuned machine. If for some reason it fails on either Diesel or Electric, I have always been able to count on the other one working. I am not sure about their future, but the older unit seem to be pretty popular with the high-end bus crowd.
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When I was fully propane, I could last most of the summer on my two 30# tanks, but in the winter in cold climates, such as in NH one winter, I would go through two tanks per week. So a lot of this depends on where you plan to spend most of your time. This also should also be considered, so it is not black and white as your mileage may vary as they say.
Through the years living the cold months on rapidly depleting propane warranted us to install a couple diesel air heaters so now heat in the cabin can be shared by diesel AND propane heaters. To keep riding the redundancy train we also carry gasoline for the genny to bring the total heat sources to three although the term boon docking we usually enjoy in moderate weather, when full timing on the campground power pole sometimes many months to years at a stretch on a project then we're usually on electric heat and plenty of it. We haven't forgotten the main engine with it's 2000W block heater. :^
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I like having LP on board. I installed gas appliances for years and am very accustomed to them. We have (2) 30# tanks with room to haul more if needed. However, with the electric system I installed (800AH lithium and 3k solar), I can see going electric, but I like having available options, so I would probably not limit myself to one system or the other. I would probably to a combination of both to some degree again.
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For me, propane was a requirement of the build. For two basic reasons and several supplementary ones. First, I insist on a propane range. Call it a quirk if you please, most people today have no actual appreciation of what it is like to cook on a proper propane burner because everything on the market today was designed by a bean counter and only heats the sides of the pan. Absolute trash. But enough of that rant. The second reason is that I like the convenience of a absorption type refrigerator that can run on propane while on the move. Those are the two biggies. Next, I like the convenience of a dual heat water heater with it's rapid recovery and ability to hold warm water temp on just the pilot light. These three things are enough for me to justify carrying propane.
Having made that decision, using propane to power the genset was not difficult. I have about a 50 gallon SAE certified tank onboard and refilling is as easy as calling the local propane supplier for what amounts to a residential delivery. They come to you, roll out the hose, and top the tank off. No fuss no muss.
If I did not have the auxiliary Eiberspacher diesel fired heater I would consider a propane furnace but am happy enough that I don't have to, although I really don't know which one would be the most economical. Still, not having to use propane for the heat means the tank will last much longer between refills, and topping off the main fuel tank is a bit easier generally. However, should the need arise it is also quite practical to call for a fuel delivery to top off the diesel tank as well. Same deal, they come out and top off the tank. So far as I know that is common anywhere you go.
Jim
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Aqua Hot gets costly to keep running I haven't spent much on my unit yetI have a problem with the demand hot water now that needs attention,it does piss you off though when something goes wrong and the pump is obsolete on 12 year old $20,000.00 system.There no getting around 200 bucks a year to keep one going,antifreeze for mine is $35.00 a gal.The $5 H/F rubber hammer to beat on the pumps to get to run is the cheapest item I have ever bought for the Aqua Hot
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now I understand why I could not keep my Aqua Hot working
"The $5 H/F rubber hammer to beat on the pumps to get to run is the cheapest item I have ever bought for the Aqua Hot "
I installed propane on my all electric coach so I could have a propane cook top and a propane bbq and not have to run the genny every time I wanted to use anything when boon docking .
with 6 coach batteries and the inverter A guy can only do so much before starting the genny
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with 6 coach batteries and the inverter A guy can only do so much before starting the genny
Amen to that. Two 5 month AK road trips w/o solar, battery banks, & inverter = several hundred genny hours each trip. Our 3rd latest AK road trip with all the above upgrade = 9 genny hours. Quite the difference!
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I have owned both the AquaHot built on the Webasto and the Oasis built on Pro/Heat burners made in Canada, The Oasis IMO was more trouble free and parts didn't break the bank since the Pro/Heat uses a low pressure fuel system and the Oasis has better customer service they don't try and sell you another unit they help fix the problem. Aqua Hot service people don't care for Oasis not enough money in parts I guess. You can spend some bucks on the Webasto parts
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Generators are loud. Propane is quiet. I like quiet.
Jim
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We are an all-electric coach, residential fridge, Microwave, Air fryer, Induction cooktop, electric hot water.
When we designed the coach I planned on building a decent solar system.
I do have a portable propane tank on board for the grill, Coleman stove and a few burners that we use outside on occasion.
We do not Boondock that much, mostly stay in campgrounds with hookups, but there have not been any issues when we are off the hook, the solar system provides about the same as if we were plugged into a 30 amp Park hookup .
If there is an issue with the power hookup or it’s cloudy for a few days and the batteries get low, I have a rather large diesel generator (20kw) that I can easily run off or charge the batteries.
In the words of a friend of mine, “Nothing tastes as good as an Ice Cold Beer that was cooled by the sun!”
Peter
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Some are into solar big time me I don't want the stuff covering my roof,hard for me to understand people spending 1000's of dollars for solar and batteries on bus one uses for a few weeks out of the year, I see in campgrounds RV's covered with solar and plugged in to 50 amps, then it's their money they are spending not mine
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Jim how do you get diesel delivered to the bus in an rv park.
We have a 200 lb tank on the ground and they fill it when we call them. Had it top with about 70 twice last winter because of the heater and stove but mostely the heater. Summer last all season plus into November. We also have 4 2olb tanks for when we are moving. Summer lots of electric for AC's. Summer I cook outside on flat top and bbq.
Solar 1500KW when on the road or not plugged in with 4024 inverter and 8 , 6 volt seal batteries.
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Generators are loud. Propane is quiet. I like quiet.
Jim
Batteries - silent!
Some are into solar big time me I don't want the stuff covering my roof,hard for me to understand people spending 1000's of dollars for solar and batteries on bus one uses for a few weeks out of the year, I see in campgrounds RV's covered with solar and plugged in to 50 amps, then it's their money they are spending not mine
Clifford, you crack me up sometimes. How on earth can you make such judgemental statements with no basis? It is about as out there as claiming 90% of RV owners make no sense spending stupid amounts of money to do the same thing. Anyway, I am into solar and batteries and the freedom of fully off grid capability. Just came back from two weeks at a campground that had hookups. Never needed to plug into it. 100% self contained. that is very satisfying in itself, not counting the masssive amount of money saved researching and DIY.
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Batteries - silent!Clifford, you crack me up sometimes. How on earth can you make such judgemental statements with no basis? It is about as out there as claiming 90% of RV owners make no sense spending stupid amounts of money to do the same thing. Anyway, I am into solar and batteries and the freedom of fully off grid capability. Just came back from two weeks at a campground that had hookups. Never needed to plug into it. 100% self contained. that is very satisfying in itself, not counting the masssive amount of money saved researching and DIY.
RV's are not all buses I see the solar on 5th wheels ,class ABC and tag along trailers setting only used a 2 weeks a year.Don I have friends with solar, batteries and inverters that cost more than people pay for a nice converted bus and seldom use the damn things ,spending that amount of money and it doesn't add not 1 dollar to the value of a RV. Now 10 days are you total electric,fridge ,stove.microwave and using AC ? if you are 10 days is great
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My conversion is all electric. I'm installing a vertical suburban 38k furnace in old ac bay. The stove is two electric units. May change over to propane there also. But seriously considering inductive units. I like propane furnaces, because they are reliable, and require little maintenance. Also don't need a Webasto or Aqua hot guru when problems occur. I'm still on the fence on the small diesel heaters, as I've followed them on the Facebook site, and they can have their issues too, even the best ones. If propane doesn't provide enough heat, I can run Generator and use toe kick heaters to supplement, plus heat strips in rooftop units. I do have a defroster unit though with a brand new core, which costs about $425 bucks a few years back. Radiator shop had to call his supplier with dimensions to get it, Han matches original core, including number and size of rows of tubes. Besides, I don't camp in below freezing weather any more. Mostly plug in in campgrounds. We are members of Boondockers and their other one, but in our two summers of extensive travel in tt, only used it twice. Always felt like a freeloader at them or buying something there was almost as much as a campground.
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My conversion is all electric. I'm installing a vertical suburban 38k furnace in old ac bay. The stove is two electric units. May change over to propane there also. But seriously considering inductive units. I like propane furnaces, because they are reliable, and require little maintenance. Also don't need a Webasto or Aqua hot guru when problems occur. I'm still on the fence on the small diesel heaters, as I've followed them on the Facebook site, and they can have their issues too, even the best ones. If propane doesn't provide enough heat, I can run Generator and use toe kick heaters to supplement, plus heat strips in rooftop units. I do have a defroster unit though with a brand new core, which costs about $425 bucks a few years back. Radiator shop had to call his supplier with dimensions to get it, Han matches original core, including number and size of rows of tubes. Besides, I don't camp in below freezing weather any more. Mostly plug in in campgrounds. We are members of Boondockers and their other one, but in our two summers of extensive travel in tt, only used it twice. Always felt like a freeloader at them or buying something there was almost as much as a campground.
I would Elk hunt for 2 weeks in Idaho for years and always went in a RV with propane furnaces they would get the job done at 20 to 0 degrees ,My AquaHot will suck some fuel at 0 degrees the BS of .48 gph or average of 6 gals aday in fuel is out the door mine will use 10+ gals of fuel a day when it is 20F or lower
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Since my ultimate goal is chasing 70 degree weather around the country and going heavy in on solar I went pure electric on my bus.
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Since my ultimate goal is chasing 70 degree weather around the country and going heavy in on solar I went pure electric on my bus.
70 degrees perfect no air conditioning or heat required ,I am total electric ,I could make 3 days with my 1100 amp hour AGM battery bank then it would be about 6 hours of generator time
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This reply is probably along the lines of the philosophy of converting a bus in general rather than the subject of electric vs. LP but covering the roof with solar panels and installing lithium is what it's all about for me. Between the independence from connecting to a pole and the solar panels being suspended a minimum of 3" above the roof (providing shade), I don't have much more money invested in my conversion than that I would have paid for a similar stick and staple unit. I haven't really tallied up what I have in it, but my guess is about 40k, including the bus, the panels, batteries, everything. The LP gives more freedom (longer periods without charging, etc.). We stayed 6 days without hookups in Weiser Idaho and could have easily stayed another 6 days (the batteries fully charged by 7:30 am each morning). The only thing I came close to running out on was water and waste capacity (nothing a run to a dump station wouldn't take care of). It will be interesting to see how it fares in cold weather, cloudy days, running heat, etc, but I am having a great time with it this summer!
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What works for me likely does not work for you. I'm more like Fred, chasing the 70 degree dream zone. I don't need to equip up to be parked in Phoenix for days on end, nor do I have to put up with freezing weather for days on end. Some may say I'm cheating because when I say off-grid ready, there are limits to that. Plus, most of us have taken on a bus conversion that was mostly or all done, meaning it had provisions for heat, cooling, and cooking and cold storage.
For example, mine came with a full on Webasto diesel heating system. I have no intention of pulling it out and replacing with electric. It works just great for those nippy mornings to take the edge off. I do have propane to run the stove and refrigerator. I run the Starlink 24/7 and that gobbles up 2kw alone. The electric hot water gets turned on for about 40 mintues once a day to get the water nice and toasty. No reason to let it cycle 24/7 keeping water at some too high heat. There are no adjustments so only way to control it is on/off. AC runs off batteries but not for hours on end. I gues it could but frankly I've not studied precisely how much solar is left over after charging batteries to use the excess to let the AC just go and go. It's all work in progress and balancing act between generation, storage, and usage. The compromises I have made are more than made up by the capabilities and freedom enjoyed by doing it.
As to costs, I'm not one to spend money I don't have to get something. The new LiFePO4 battery is 7kW and costing me about $1200, all in. Batteries, shipping, wiring, etc. Anotyher $125 for the BMS and the pack is done. I picked up a used Victron 3Kw Quattro inverter/charger for $750, new they are $2,000. Panels run about $200-$400, varies if new/used, capacity, location, etc. So for about $3,000 all in I have 7kW battery, 3kw pure sin wave inverter, and 1800 watts of panels. Feel free to buy a 1200 watt battery for a grand. I'd rather than over 7000 for the same. And so goes for the rest of the components and pay 100 an hour for labor. Yeah, you'd ba at 10 grand to write a check for what I have going.
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For lookers and buyers that want total electric buses I see Ritche Bro has some electric powered transit buses up for auction. I wonder how you could charge one if used it for RVing
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Glen brings up a good point about shading the roof with the solar panels. That alone has to be worth a decent amount of cooling capacity.
Jim
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Keep in mind, these western temperatures cause a decrease in power output.
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Debt has a propane stove and Rita loves it. Propane furnace that works great. Absorption fridge we are used to and like very much. No solar panels and prefer not to do that.
I approved the following message and it is NOT meant to be political. Just an observation.
Coming soon there are states where it may become difficult to find propane without looking hard.
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I looked at solar for the shop,but it gets so hot here they loose about a 1/2 % of their out put with any heat over 77 degrees,120 degree here sometime greatly reduce the output.Then he tells me expect 5 to 7 years life span so I passed on the free solar because the replacement panels were on me.The guy was a county rep so he didn't have any marbles in the game as for selling panels
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FYI Clifford. Qualty panels have a lifespan far greater than 7 years. Maybe he was talking about the increase in capacity and tech or possibly the efficiency loss over time. Could be a typical govt. worker who doesn't like having to do more work because more solar going on roofs. Unless he had specific expertise in solar, then why take what he says for anything other than gibberish?
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FYI Clifford. Qualty panels have a lifespan far greater than 7 years. Maybe he was talking about the increase in capacity and tech or possibly the efficiency loss over time. Could be a typical govt. worker who doesn't like having to do more work because more solar going on roofs. Unless he had specific expertise in solar, then why take what he says for anything other than gibberish?
I don't know much about solar but why are they always changing the panels on solar farms around here and Vegas ?,those panels and controllers are always for sale at great prices like 75 bucks for panels and 75 for a controller, we bought some for my daughters RV,Gary Hatt took her to buy the stuff,would those farms use cheap panels.? Az PUC lets a power co charge a monthly fee if you have Solar and tied into the power grid sorta dumb IMO
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https://www.blog.rapidtax.com/is-income-from-solar-panels-taxable/
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Even with all the freebies the State of AZ was offering the Solar is not free you spend a lot of up front cash,they offer you a tax rebate for xxx number of dollars on each year,the guy was just telling me the ins and out he was here to approve which he did or disapprove my application.
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Jim how do you get diesel delivered to the bus in an rv park.
Dave, I don't know why it would be any harder than a residential delivery. It's not like the delivery trucks are big or anything, about the same size as a propane delivery truck actually. Much smaller than a lot of RVs. I get both delivered at my house. Propane for the shop (100gal tank and they will top it off. Prefer to in fact.) and diesel for the mower (100 gal tank and I fill it when it runs dry or is about to.) I buy the red fuel but they carry the yellow on the same truck. So I can't imagine they wouldn't want to sell it. Probably would have more to do with the travel distance than anything else but if you will buy I expect they will fly. Just might be a surcharge for a long trip.
One winter in Toledo I rented a 100lb bottle and had the local propane service swap them out as needed in the trailer park I camped out in. They would just bring around a truck with a lift gate. They would have left me two bottles if I had wanted them, or a 100gal tank. Made no difference to them. I went through 2 or 3 bottles while I was up there. It was a small camper trailer. Had to mount a fan on the propane furnace to get enough heat out of it to keep warm. Forced air sure does raise the efficiency.
I've got no complaints about solar, I think it's a great idea and eventually it will be affordable by the average Joe. Might even become the de-facto standard. But we aren't there yet. I am glad some of you can afford it because we need sales to push development and bring the price down so the rest of us can afford it. But as far as I am concerned, for RVs the name of the game is redundancy. If every other option fails I want to still be able to go outside and build a campfire to keep warm and cook. But I put that way down the list, and every option comes with a cost. Propane is one of if not THE lowest cost option. A basic portable bottle and Coleman cook stove can do the job of letting you cook and stay warm. May not be the safest, but when the chips are down you will use it. From there you rise in sophistication and cost. At some point you will find your balance point. A different one for everyone. To me that means that propane is the basic ingredient in the RV power formula. If you are well heeled enough to avoid the lower cost options and ignore the benefits of redundancy then congratulations to you, you have made it to the top, or near enough to be content. The rest of us will continue to plug away like we always have.
Jim
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I have (3) 30lb tanks of propane for the dryer, stove and on demand water heater.
Two of them are always on. The third is there to keep things going while refilling the others.
Refrigerator, coffee maker, toaster and mixers are all electric. If I could get a propane coffee maker I would. I really like my coffee hot.
I have 412 Ah of battery and 1200 watts of solar. I haven't installed the solar panels yet. But when I do, I plan to simulate boon docking.
I have a wood stove for the bus that saved my butt during the build. I don't have to rely on propane or electric in a pinch.
The stove burns coal and wood. I can carry quite a bit of wood in the spare tire compartment and coal in the mechanical bay.
Yes, I secured it well.
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Dave, I don't know why it would be any harder than a residential delivery. It's not like the delivery trucks are big or anything, about the same size as a propane delivery truck actually. Much smaller than a lot of RVs. I get both delivered at my house. Propane for the shop (100gal tank and they will top it off. Prefer to in fact.) and diesel for the mower (100 gal tank and I fill it when it runs dry or is about to.) I buy the red fuel but they carry the yellow on the same truck. So I can't imagine they wouldn't want to sell it. Probably would have more to do with the travel distance than anything else but if you will buy I expect they will fly. Just might be a surcharge for a long trip.
One winter in Toledo I rented a 100lb bottle and had the local propane service swap them out as needed in the trailer park I camped out in. They would just bring around a truck with a lift gate. They would have left me two bottles if I had wanted them, or a 100gal tank. Made no difference to them. I went through 2 or 3 bottles while I was up there. It was a small camper trailer. Had to mount a fan on the propane furnace to get enough heat out of it to keep warm. Forced air sure does raise the efficiency.
I've got no complaints about solar, I think it's a great idea and eventually it will be affordable by the average Joe. Might even become the de-facto standard. But we aren't there yet. I am glad some of you can afford it because we need sales to push development and bring the price down so the rest of us can afford it. But as far as I am concerned, for RVs the name of the game is redundancy. If every other option fails I want to still be able to go outside and build a campfire to keep warm and cook. But I put that way down the list, and every option comes with a cost. Propane is one of if not THE lowest cost option. A basic portable bottle and Coleman cook stove can do the job of letting you cook and stay warm. May not be the safest, but when the chips are down you will use it. From there you rise in sophistication and cost. At some point you will find your balance point. A different one for everyone. To me that means that propane is the basic ingredient in the RV power formula. If you are well heeled enough to avoid the lower cost options and ignore the benefits of redundancy then congratulations to you, you have made it to the top, or near enough to be content. The rest of us will continue to plug away like we always have.
Jim
I love redundancy. I have a Chinese diesel heater (not finished hooking it up), a 35k btu LP furnace, and the mini split (heat and AC). For electric, I have shore power or the super cool battery/solar system; for water, I can hook up to a water system, or the water tank and 12v pump; for sewer, I have a holding tank, or I can connect to a sewer. I would love to install an additional water heater too someday, besides the LP one. One of those 12v ice chests might be nice too in case the refrigerator goes out. Redundancy can be your friend, but I admit it can be costly too!
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Since my ultimate goal is chasing 70 degree weather around the country and going heavy in on solar I went pure electric on my bus.
Well, here is the route to do that. Maye start up a convoy? ;D
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-20/a-13-235-mile-road-trip-for-70-degree-weather
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For lookers and buyers that want total electric buses I see Ritche Bro has some electric powered transit buses up for auction. I wonder how you could charge one if used it for RVing
Be pretty easy to do Cliff as you could charge it all night in the RV park. if you had a good diesel generator on board you can limp it to the next RV park if necessary. How big are the Diesel Tanks on those Electric buses anyway?
You may have to limit your travel days some but who wants to drive all day anymore anyway. It sure would be a quiet rig with plenty of get-up-and-go. :D
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Someone with 40k laying around those could be fun to play with ,drive it from Texas to CA and you wouldn't have CARB to deal with in CA
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We ask around and most rv parks will not let you charge electric vehicles on the pole.
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We ask around and most rv parks will not let you charge electric vehicles on the pole.
Several of the RV parks here have Telsa charging stations you can charge for a extra fee
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I run the Starlink 24/7 and that gobbles up 2kw alone.
There's supposedly an option in the app where you can instruct the dish to go silent during the night.
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There's supposedly an option in the app where you can instruct the dish to go silent during the night.
I'm glad someone chimed it on that consumption! That dish would stay silent at that rate. But that's just me.
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Clifford,I haven't a clue what drives the upgrades of solar farm equipment. As allued to, there is surely some economic angle, incentives, tax credit swaps, accelerated depreciation schedules, etc. I'd stand on this line of reasoning rather than equipment becoming inoperative. Like Gary mentions, you can get surplus panels all day long for dirt cheap. There is constant increase in performance so maybe being able to increase production per given space also factors in. For example, if you can double the electrical output per acre by swapping panels, maybe there is more profit, etc. One thing for certain, these large solar farm enterprises are not doing it to lose money or not maximizing overall profits.
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Clifford,I haven't a clue what drives the upgrades of solar farm equipment. As allued to, there is surely some economic angle, incentives, tax credit swaps, accelerated depreciation schedules, etc. I'd stand on this line of reasoning rather than equipment becoming inoperative. Like Gary mentions, you can get surplus panels all day long for dirt cheap. There is constant increase in performance so maybe being able to increase production per given space also factors in. For example, if you can double the electrical output per acre by swapping panels, maybe there is more profit, etc. One thing for certain, these large solar farm enterprises are not doing it to lose money or not maximizing overall profits.
Around here the hay farmers are selling off sections to the solar people and selling the water right for the 640 acres to other hay farmers since Biden screwed up the water AZ can have now
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I have done 2 conversions exactly the same way. When I did my first conversion in 1994, I priced out the Aqua-hot and $15,000 just for the system said NO. Hence I used 2-10gal electric water heaters (no coolant loop), 35,000btu propane furnace with 4 outlets, 3 burner propane stove and 25 gal chassis mounted propane tank with interior shut off valve that all cost about $1500 at time of build. The two 10gal electric water heaters lasted 27 years before they started to leak. I replaced with same that were actually a bit smaller in diameter. And how much maintenance did I have to do on the water heaters-drain once a year-that's all. Try that with a Aqua-hot! I had to replace the propane furnace once because I forgot to turn it off and it ran for 2 weeks straight-the fan didn't like that. I bought a whole new one because the new one was quieter and had automatic shut off after 2 minutes if no propane was present.
Currently with my Kenworth truck conversion, I have 3-100amp/hour Lith/Iron Battleborn batteries, 12kw Wrico Diesel Generator, no solar panels yet. With last year going on 5 trips totalling about 8 weeks, we used about 3/4 tank of propane. I love my setup-you couldn't pay me enough to get the headache and constant maintenance of a Aqua-hot. Every Quartzite rally, the Aqua-hot guy is going rig to rig doing maintenance. But-we do our own conversions to do it our way. Good Luck, TomC
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I have done 2 conversions exactly the same way. When I did my first conversion in 1994, I priced out the Aqua-hot and $15,000 just for the system said NO. Hence I used 2-10gal electric water heaters (no coolant loop), 35,000btu propane furnace with 4 outlets, 3 burner propane stove and 25 gal chassis mounted propane tank with interior shut off valve that all cost about $1500 at time of build. The two 10gal electric water heaters lasted 27 years before they started to leak. I replaced with same that were actually a bit smaller in diameter. And how much maintenance did I have to do on the water heaters-drain once a year-that's all. Try that with a Aqua-hot! I had to replace the propane furnace once because I forgot to turn it off and it ran for 2 weeks straight-the fan didn't like that. I bought a whole new one because the new one was quieter and had automatic shut off after 2 minutes if no propane was present.
Currently with my Kenworth truck conversion, I have 3-100amp/hour Lith/Iron Battleborn batteries, 12kw Wrico Diesel Generator, no solar panels yet. With last year going on 5 trips totalling about 8 weeks, we used about 3/4 tank of propane. I love my setup-you couldn't pay me enough to get the headache and constant maintenance of a Aqua-hot. Every Quartzite rally, the Aqua-hot guy is going rig to rig doing maintenance. But-we do our own conversions to do it our way. Good Luck, TomC
If you do it yourself the newer AquaHot are not that bad,clean the burner,install a new orifice and fuel filter, I don't think it is worth 200 bucks the service people charge either,Aqua Hot does not like long periods of no use,so far no major problems yet with mine,I cylcle mine once a month if a pump is not working I have the rubber hammer
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the rubber hammer again
after replacing the aqua hot with the pro heat boiler in 2017 the pro heat has never not started or had any problems
I like the diesel instant heat and endless hot water but do like to cook on the propane bbq or cook top
do it your way is the bus nut way
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the rubber hammer again
after replacing the aqua hot with the pro heat boiler in 2017 the pro heat has never not started or had any problems
I like the diesel instant heat and endless hot water but do like to cook on the propane bbq or cook top
do it your way is the bus nut way
Webasto for several years was plagued by problems in the Aqua Hot mine has been good but the pumps will stick if not used then comes the rubber hammer. Mine has the dual electric heating elements and does good on electric too. MCI had so many problems with the Webasto they stopped using it for 5 years,I like the Pro/Heat that was what my Oasis used.I see some of the gasoline powered Class A RV's with Propane Aquahots now
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Adding Solar to your rig does not have to be all that expensive, I have just under $2000 into mine and it’s a pretty decent system, 600 AH of batteries and 1500 watt of solar.
The Panels are as has been discussed here, used from a Solar farm, 6 250 watt panels cost me $50 each, tested as good as new.
3000 watt pure sign inverter, got that used as well, System is designed around Electrodacus Tech, not your typical build, not plug and play, but not near as expensive as most of the stuff.
Most expensive and most difficult parts to get were the 16 - 3.2 volt LiFePO4 300AH cells. Individual cells shipped from China, but again much less expensive than the popular brand name ready to go batteries.
For me it’s as much about learning and building the stuff as it is about using the end product, if I had to have it professionally installed, probably would not have it.
Took me quite a bit of research to learn about it, thought I was pretty good with electrical, solar is a different ball game, took quite a bit of time to source the parts, some time to assemble and stabilize, truly everything I could have wanted out of a project.
The benefits, there are no downsides, it’s like being permanently plugged into a 30 amp plug. There is no power in the yard where I store the bus, Makes no difference to me, all the power I need to run Power Tools, Vacuum cleaner, Lights, refrigerator, it’s always on self maintains.
On the road, can stop anywhere, Walmart, no issue all the comforts of an RV park, air fryer, microwave, Fridge, TV, rest areas same.
As Windtrader said, we have been in RV parks where we never plugged in.
Last year had a wheel bearing fail and got stuck in a strip mall parking lot for three days waiting on parts, again no problem, all the comforts of home.
The solar panels covering a good portion of the roof, definitely make it much cooler in the Florida sun.
If there is a downside, Solar power is like a drug, the more you have the more you want, fortunately I built my system so it is infinitely expandable without having to scrap any of the current parts (yet).
Could have all this with just the generator, but Generators are noisy and drink fuel.
It’s nice to need just two fuel sources, Diesel and Electricity, one of which is self-renewing.
Peter
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Love the post Peter. Its like 50 to 1 naysayers to converts. Like you learned it all and that is the fun of DIY. well, saving a ton of $$ is uber nice. My first battery pack was lithium ion and I had a few DIYer goofs and the battery back performance is less than stellar, that's being kind. So, made the decision to switch to LiFePO4, still DIY. But there isn't any reason why others don't jump now as Will Prowse keep reviewing new plug in server battery and the prices are getting so cheap. It's hard to justify DIY as the savings are really shrinking. But I still love the science and satisfaction of DIY and knowing how it all works down to the the cell balancing and temp sensors etc.
Are you finding 6-250 panels enough? I went SBMS0 too but had reliability issues. Probably self-inflicted due to improper shorting it. One thing is it is very rudimentary with respect to having self preservation circuitry. It would take very little to add some on board protections to improve DIY abuse.
The original Vanner charge/inverter is old school and not pure sine wave which worked fine for years until I bought a vertical round fan and it acted up as the PWM motor needed pure sine. I got a Victron Quatttro, then spoiled by the SBMS0 monitoring I got a Cerbo GX. So got slowly sucked into the Victron framework. Selecting a Victron inverter/charger so it'll all integrate via the GX and then via wiFi I can remote monitor anywhere in the world. Realistically, the practical goal is to just keep the bus up and running 24/7 and controlled wherever I am. Along with smarthome features, preparing the bus before heading out will be a breeze. Turn on AC or heat if needed, turn on the heating blanket, nice and cozy, lighting controls, LOL.
Maybe full timers that run their bus systems 24/7 have answered the question about letting all systems run all the time when not occupied but in standby mode, ready to roll with a few touches on a remote control pad.
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Love the post Peter. Its like 50 to 1 naysayers to converts. Like you learned it all and that is the fun of DIY. well, saving a ton of $$ is uber nice. My first battery pack was lithium ion and I had a few DIYer goofs and the battery back performance is less than stellar, that's being kind. So, made the decision to switch to LiFePO4, still DIY. But there isn't any reason why others don't jump now as Will Prowse keep reviewing new plug in server battery and the prices are getting so cheap. It's hard to justify DIY as the savings are really shrinking. But I still love the science and satisfaction of DIY and knowing how it all works down to the the cell balancing and temp sensors etc.
Are you finding 6-250 panels enough? I went SBMS0 too but had reliability issues. Probably self-inflicted due to improper shorting it. One thing is it is very rudimentary with respect to having self preservation circuitry. It would take very little to add some on board protections to improve DIY abuse.
The original Vanner charge/inverter is old school and not pure sine wave which worked fine for years until I bought a vertical round fan and it acted up as the PWM motor needed pure sine. I got a Victron Quatttro, then spoiled by the SBMS0 monitoring I got a Cerbo GX. So got slowly sucked into the Victron framework. Selecting a Victron inverter/charger so it'll all integrate via the GX and then via wiFi I can remote monitor anywhere in the world. Realistically, the practical goal is to just keep the bus up and running 24/7 and controlled wherever I am. Along with smarthome features, preparing the bus before heading out will be a breeze. Turn on AC or heat if needed, turn on the heating blanket, nice and cozy, lighting controls, LOL.
Maybe full timers that run their bus systems 24/7 have answered the question about letting all systems run all the time when not occupied but in standby mode, ready to roll with a few touches on a remote control pad.
With the 6 - 250 watt Panels, I could use a few more panels, next two panels will be ground deployable, got stuck in a shaded site for a weekend a while ago, deployable would have been nice.
With a few growing pains at the very beginning the SBMS0 has been extremely reliable.
The AIMS inverter/charger I have, although old enough not to have a lithium charge profile, is Pure Sine, and will shut itself off before over charging or over discharging and damaging the Cells, I also soldered in some internal connections to allow it to be controlled by the SBMS0, that now controls the charge profile and will also shut it down completely if any one cell is charged to 3.7 volts or discharged to 2.5 volts.
I have stressed tested it successfully on both the over charge and over discharge ends a few times as well.
I am currently working on a way to remotely access the SBMS0 built in status webpage using a GL Inet router with a sim card, that way I could check the status remotely as opposed to currently I drive by the storage lot every few days (very close), don’t even get out of the car just access the status page on my phone and go.
If my Aims inverter gives out would definitely go with the Victron Multiplus Inverter.
Peter
PS. Did you see my solar power article in the Nov\Dec of 2022 editions of BCM?
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There won't be a next bus, only one for 44 years now and many more years we hope unless of coarse we won a lottery that we don't play.
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There won't be a next bus, only one for 44 years now and many more years we hope unless of coarse we won a lottery that we don't play.
Not another one here either Dan,my phone rings all the time people wanting engine work done ,I am happy with my sticks and staples job I just need more time to use it
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There ARE some things that are worth doing once only...
Jim
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There ARE some things that are worth doing once only...
Jim
Unless you park the bus,you will be spending some $$$$,even parked they cost money
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PS. Did you see my solar power article in the Nov\Dec of 2022 editions of BCM?
No, hate to admit but no longer subscriber. Good for on the article, I had discussed doing one for Gary a couple years back but I dropped the ball.