BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: dtcerrato on July 29, 2023, 05:55:25 PM
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Gary has been posting really good questions here that are really fun to answer.
I have one that I posted on another forum and frankly the non-responsiveness concerns me.
It's not exactly a fun question to answer unless the owner/converter is confident that due diligence has been instituted.
Cutting to the chase:
How many busnuts have large furniture pieces or large anything that is not secure in a major OTR upset?
Unfortunately cord nor bungee tie down does not qualify for securement.
Remember in driving school when they told us that swinging your arm in front of a non-secured child won't stop it as on average it would take a 5000lb source (seatbelts) to arrest forward motion in a mild head on collision.
The thought of a large sofa pushing the front passengers through the windshield to the tarmac because it wanted to see what was it that made the bus stop so abruptly is in my head when I ask the question & frankly I'd rather be on the sofa - NOT :-[
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This is a timely question.
I have two modular couches that I need to secure.
I'm thinking of building a box under each to house a pull out table. This box would be bolted to the floor. I was wondering if I could then bolt the couch to the box.
The bottoms of the couch have 1/4-20 or 5/8 threaded inserts for the feet. I thought of bolting them down using those.
I can't imagine they are very strong, but would likely keep them from moving under normal conditions.
I'm more concerned about the free standing residential refrigerator and apartment style washer and dryer. They seem top heavy to me and the refrigerator has wheels.
I was thinking of bolting loops into the floor on either side and using a ratchet strap over the top.
Would love to know what others have done.
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My double recliner couch is bolted to the floor as is a small recliner. The passenger seat is bolted to the floor as would be typical for such a unit. My house type Magic Chef refrigerator is built into the cabinet that surrounds it. I tie the dining chairs to the table leg while underway. While these are not engineered methods (with the exception of the passenger seat), they are pretty secure. I would not be comfortable having everything just sitting on the floor.
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I did not remove the 2 seat tracts. Or overhead Ibeams holding the upper passengers cabinets, from the factory. The seat floor tracts hold the sofa, chairs, walls, refrigerator and closets. The seat height wall bracket rails have bolts holding the cabinets, walls shower frame and rear of refrigerator. The two ceiling I-beams beside holding the front to back wiring, also hold the walls, glass shower walls and door frame, fronts of cabinets and closets, wood door frames, refrigerator and ceiling high frames from cabinets. So most objects that could go flying in an accident have a minimum of 2 bolt points that were designed from the factory for accidents. I'm sure the MCI engineers solved those accident issues better than I could...
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I also retained the original floor tracks. Everything is anchored there, from the bulkheads at the bathroom to the cabinetry and the furniture will be as well. The appliance countertop is also anchored to the bulkhead and those are tied into the roof bolts. The appliances have floor bolts and are restrained against tipping by the countertop The fridge cabinet is also attached to the original overhead bins which I kept. I have been very concerned about making sure nothing moves under any conditions. I have even gone to the trouble of making specialized bolts that anchor to the tracks using the original T bolts and then allow the cabinets to be tightened to the floor with large nuts and washers. Same for the bed and wardrobes. So far I think it's pretty secure. It was tricky anchoring the major appliances in such a way that they could be slid out for servicing. Basically I did that with partitions and rails and then a locking system to keep the appliance from being able to move into the isle. In a rollover that should wedge the appliance against the countertop and hold it in place. But I don't intend to test it.
There is quite a minimum or exposed floor track. If I feel like it later on I may insert some hardwood or plastic strips to dress that up a little, or even install strip lights if I feel like getting fancy.
Jim
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Most people do not like the built in dinette sometimes I wish I had one instead of the table and chairs which are hard to secure and a pain to do,the couch is going nowhere it is anchored inside the slide with the end tables
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Thanks for posting Dan. I admit I don't secure anything. The microwave can go flying, the dining table chairs(2) can take off. Coffee machine, etc etc. So far, six years in, I've been fotunate to not have anything large go flying. Plenty of doors have flung open, pots and pans and food lauch off. But it has been so few times, it hasn't been on my list. I do use those rubberized mats that keep things in place. I would say the most frequent and annoying displacement of things is the soap bottles in the tub. I forget to close them off and lay them in the tub. Finding them on their side and the contents spilled out is tops on my list.
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Sonja has a Norwalk juicer that weighs almost 50 llbs I can set it non slip pads and the thing still finds a way to fall off if I am not careful,one good thing about slides I can pack stuff between the slides and put the slides in and they will hold things in place or break a table like I did by not setting the table correctly between the slides before I put the last slide in
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I'd think youj can secure anything on a surface from sliding by some sort of method. you can even get glue down coasters to keep something from moving like that 50 pound juicer. Keeping something secure when 90-180 degrees upside down is another kind of problem that requires more involved solutions like straps and bolting things down to structurally secure mount points, etc.
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Worth keeping in mind that a lightweight car can go from 60-0 abruptly with minimal injuries thanks to modern safety conveniences and the comparatively small amount of mass in motion. I'd guess that the vast majority of accidents involving much heavier busses do not include instantaneous deceleration due to the forces and masses involved; for the remainder, the incident is generally catastrophic enough that no amount of fastening will suffice.
That said, I'm still of the belief that everything which is not very securely fastened should, at a minimum, be behind something which is, but I recognize that the margin of accidents where that would be relevant is fairly narrow.
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I'd think youj can secure anything on a surface from sliding by some sort of method. you can even get glue down coasters to keep something from moving like that 50 pound juicer. Keeping something secure when 90-180 degrees upside down is another kind of problem that requires more involved solutions like straps and bolting things down to structurally secure mount points, etc.
I solved the problem I bought her a cheap Breville light weight juicer and I leave the heavy Norwalk at home,the Breville will stay in place with putty she uses
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Under my Splendide washer/dryer I bolted a piece of heavy steel that protrudes an inch or so on each side, with two 3/8" bolts securing it through the floor to the structural steel underneath. It's not going anywhere! I'll secure my two eventual small upright freezers the same way. The microwave / coffee maker / etc will live inside the upper cabinets that are metal-framed and attached to the roof ribs and structural steel above the windows with machine screws and PlusNuts.
John
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Eric, I mounted my 2 couches to 4x4 mounted to floor. The couch is on roller drawer slides with 4- 2 inch wheels supporting the weight.. when stowed the couch deadbolts to the floor. Way better built than anything in a factory rv. Stop by and check them out. I still have a set of tire covers for you. Gary Bronson
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I guess this post was more for "awareness" than anything. We all know these risks don't occur frequently but the possibility always exists. A point brought up on another forum of a similar post was people in the coach slamming into things during an upset or simply when braking in traffic is always possible when just moving around from being seat belted in the driver's or navigators seat. And going a step further- passengers seated in places farther back in the cabin w/o seat belts ie: table, nook, sofa, bed, etc! The risk is there & something to be aware of.
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When we built ours we built most things into the cabinetry. Stove I surrounded with concrete tile backer board for heat, refrigerator is screwed in and heater is below that. Every thing small we use Earthquack putty under like Sonja does it works great and you can get that on Amazon. Most things face eachother sideways so no forward movement. All chairs are air ride Bostrum seats and the table folds down but is also bolted to the wall. The couch is custom made and nolted in most every thing else is n cabinets and has slide locks on them. Life is good. :^
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They are not furniture but the 54 inch TV mounted up front above the drivers area scares me,lol every time mine makes rattle I dunk for cover,I had cabinets over the drivers area in my Eagle I would never do that again, something was always falling out and hitting me because I didn't close the door tight
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Everything not secured by bolting it to the floor or building walls around it will become a projectile in a sudden stop as per Newton's Second Law of Motion. When you stop, everything not secured will keep on going until interrupted by an external force such as a driver's head and can kill anyone in its path.
Bottom Line: The more you can bolt down, the safer you will be.
My sofa is built on wooden "tracks" so it can be slid out to clean behind it. I like that idea.
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"Earthquake Putty" - learned something new, ka-ching goes the Amazon register! Used bubble gum is cheaper but this stuff don't cost much for a trial. lol
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I never heard of earthquake putty. Maybe because I love in FL? It sounds like something you could fix an earthquake with! I'll have to see if I can find some hurricane putty. Wow the sheet us capitalists will think up to make a buck. At least with Bazooka they used to include comics to read while in the chew to ready mode. Lol
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I never heard of earthquake putty. Maybe because I love in FL? It sounds like something you could fix an earthquake with! I'll have to see if I can find some hurricane putty. Wow the sheet us capitalists will think up to make a buck. At least with Bazooka they used to include comics to read while in the chew to ready mode. Lol
The stuff works pretty well Sonja has used for years,she uses to secure shampoo bottles I leave open,problem is sometimes I don't set the bottle back on the putty,she uses in the fridge for some items
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Eric, I mounted my 2 couches to 4x4 mounted to floor. The couch is on roller drawer slides with 4- 2 inch wheels supporting the weight.. when stowed the couch deadbolts to the floor. Way better built than anything in a factory rv. Stop by and check them out. I still have a set of tire covers for you. Gary Bronson
Yes. I need to pay you a visit.
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This is what happens if you are broadsided in a bus. EVERTYHING not bolted down, goes flying, including the passengers. And in a Bus Conversion, this can be a LOT of projectiles.
https://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/video-shows-kids-flying-bus-crash-68921814
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While I do believe that in a wreck, or hard braking, non tied down furniture could be a problem, but it is the small stuff, that when become projectiles, that can cause havoc inside, to the occupants and the driver. Just my two cents.
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As a rollover survivor in a large SUV with many tools in the back (I-H Travelall) I can tell you that you do not have time to duck. At about the second roof landing you lose count and speaking of projectiles? Witness reported a rain of steel originating at the windshield. I spent quite awhile recovering drills and taps from the road afterwards. A big punch found it's way inside the driver's door speaker, chainsaws and axes and assorted hand tools had their way with the interior, many ending up beside me in the front but *somehow* I came out of it relatively unscathed. Though I did take quite a ride wrapped around the steering column and somehow pulled the shifter into reverse. (no seat belt in use at the time)
In a bus, with at least 7 ft or so to fall in any direction, it would be much worse. I tie things down.
Jim
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The most critical single safety rule is to make sure all occupants are belted in. Maybe not such a tall order when it is you the driver and wifey as the passenger. But when travelling in vacation mode with a bunch of people, the challenge of belting all in becomes a real deal. For that matter, how many can you belt up in your conversion?
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We are planning a protocol that I'm sure many others do. Removing all loose objects and placing them in bins for travel.
At a minimum they will be placed on the floor of the living room, kitchen, bath etc. If we have the space, I would prefer them in the bay. It wouldn't really be that much after all.
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The most critical single safety rule is to make sure all occupants are belted in. Maybe not such a tall order when it is you the driver and wifey as the passenger. But when travelling in vacation mode with a bunch of people, the challenge of belting all in becomes a real deal. For that matter, how many can you belt up in your conversion?
You don't see many add seat belts in the conversion process ,I had 3 for the couch for my grandkids,some RV manufactures add belts and some don't
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Placing stuff on the floor is irrelevant because in a roll over the floor could become the ceiling.. just saying.
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In old style conversions there was an appliance barn. Toasters, remote controls, mixers, pictures, etc. Folding chairs go behind my appliance barn...
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Placing stuff on the floor is irrelevant because in a roll over the floor could become the ceiling.. just saying.
Exactly. You can never predict what side you will end up on in a motor vehicle accident. I know, I have been to many when I was an EMT. The only safe thing to do is to put everything away in secured cabinets before traveling. Or put everything on shelves where a door can fold down and secured into place during travel.
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Another level of protection is to build a reinforced wall behind the driver and front passenger so all of your stuff will hit the wall instead of you. The problem with that is unless it is made out of acrylic like city buses have, you will not be able to see out the front window when parked, but some people do this anyway.
This also detracts from the homeyness of Bus Conversion. The HPO (Highway Post Office) bus that was recently sold in BCM, was set up this way to protect the passenger from letters and packages and mail sorters from hitting him in the back of the head in a sudden stop or accident.
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The only safe thing to do is to put everything away in secured cabinets before traveling.
And that is not difficult at all. Same as baby proofing with screwing latches on the cabinet doors. Worst case is hearing clanging of pots and pans, fix that with padding with fom sheets, etc. done
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And that is not difficult at all. Same as baby proofing with screwing latches on the cabinet doors. Worst case is hearing clanging of pots and pans, fix that with padding with fom sheets, etc. done
I know what you mean by those noisy pots and pans whilst driving down the road with the windows open. ;D
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If you think about it when placing each item and take care of it then it gets a lot easier. Worst are the things you use regularly that end up on the counter, floor, table or chairs but smaller bins with latchable covers can take care of most of that. Having a latchable door on the shower gives a big area to place open bins, things along that line. The bedroom could become a dangerous place in a rollover, something to be considered. Does your bed platform have latches, or just gas struts for instance? Guess I just found a new place for a couple of small dead bolts.
Jim
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Of course, you can do as the Prison Transport Buses do, and install a mesh gate behind the driver's area (as seen below in the photo) to keep stuff from hitting you from the rear. If you have kids, you could build your wall back a few feet behind their seats.
How many of you remember riding in one of these buses? Do you remember this setup? ;D
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Just what are you implying Gary? :P
Jim
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Just what are you implying Gary? :P
Jim
:D ;D ;)
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Maybe he was referring to the movie the Fugitve with Harrison Ford and getting out of the prison bus. Even a prison bus can't keep a good down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPzWRNV9PMo
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While I do believe that in a wreck, or hard braking, non tied down furniture could be a problem, but it is the small stuff, that when become projectiles, that can cause havoc inside, to the occupants and the driver. Just my two cents.
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The only piece of furniture we that is movable in our rig is the recliner. However when we are traveling I made two straps/brackets that screw into the floor nuts with wing bolts. It is a little pain to lining things up to bolt it down, but for me it's worth the effort knowing it will not fly into the back of my wife's seat. The 40 inch TV is taken off the bracket (one hand screw) stored in the bedroom when on the road.
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In 2009, I was in a rollover of an MRAP!! Well it was a training setup meant to simulate a rollover and condition us for the response we needed to take. For logical reasons, they substituted rubber rifles for our M4's and put rubber ammo cans inside also. The only thing secured inside was us! Even with my helmet on, a rubber ammo can hit me and range my bell. It drilled into us to secure everything. After the "wreck" we still had to exit and secure the perimeter, etc.
I still need to secure my couch, but it only weighs like 40 lbs as it is all foam and cardboard.
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Just be thankful you are not in a rig like this. If these things rollover, no amount of securing stuff down would pretty much be a waste of effort.
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Just be thankful you are not in a rig like this. If these things rollover, no amount of securing stuff down would pretty much be a waste of effort.
Looks to be a run of the mill Class C ,the cab area is the only protection on those they meet the US safety standard (cab only )