BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: CrabbyMilton on July 31, 2023, 04:28:14 AM
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Some of you may know that James from MOTORCOACH WORLD is testing an EV from California to Florida. He’s providing updates along the way. He began on Wednesday and several problems with charging stations. Yesterday in Tucson the control unit for the charge failed so he was stuck there until they can get the parts and repairs to him. Here is a video when he first got started.
https://www.youtube.com/live/og1ObUCKfzg?feature=share
Some of these are choppy. He says the bus itself drives like a dream. But it’s becoming clear that EV buses for long distances are not going to get over for quite some time.
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That bus is a venture between Proterra and ABC I was told Vanhool has little to do with it ,they have a regular electric passengers bus running around too. Our government just tossed 1.7 billion dollars into E buses and another 7.5 billion into charging stations, so they have plenty of money to waste
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I think his final report will show that such a bus may be fine for shorter day trips less than 200 total miles but not extended charters. It may be unfair to blame VAN-HOOL but they did build the bus so it will fall on them and make them look stupid. They are finding out how temperamental these "outlet malls" are. Once instance they plugged it in and it was supposedly charging. They come back hours later and find it didn't work after all. Then they called the number and get put on hold over an hour waiting for help. These problems are only a preview of coming attractions for new EV owners. Sure years form now it amy be better but a lot of little things do add up to put people off to EV's.
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OK, where are you guys finding these videos? The link above only goes to one. Nothing about the actual trip.
Jim
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Thanks for posting Crabby but only Wink Van Ripple would not know long distance EV bus is not yet here. Tesla semi will likey pave the road ahead for long distance heavy truck/bus viability. Personally, EV bus is fruit way the tree. Let's keep harvesting the low hanging fruits. Besides school buses, the commercial bus miles must be down the list.
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OK, where are you guys finding these videos? The link above only goes to one. Nothing about the actual trip.
Jim
Jim. Go to YOUTUBE. Enter James Wang MOTORCOACH world and it should come up. He was streaming live and just making it available to watch later. He said he;s going to edit down some of these once the trip is over. It's works better if you subscribe to his channel.
That one he's giving a summary of the bus before he left.
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Thanks for posting Crabby but only Wink Van Ripple would not know long distance EV bus is not yet here. Tesla semi will likey pave the road ahead for long distance heavy truck/bus viability. Personally, EV bus is fruit way the tree. Let's keep harvesting the low hanging fruits. Besides school buses, the commercial bus miles must be down the list.
True but they want him to test it to see how it goes. We are not anywhere near these things being the norm. But someone and others have to see what it can and can't do.
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Here is today’s entry. They’re still waiting for repairs. Obviously this is only a test. Imagine this scenario in real service. They didn’t plan these outlet malls very well for large vehicles. Anyway he reaffirmed that the bus itself is nice riding and good power.
https://youtu.be/OosbflkRsk0
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I think long distance will be the purview of Diesel for years to come, until hydrogen power filling stations are most places. I do think hydrogen and cng injection, into diesel engines, will happen universally first...
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Not if CARB gets its way which seems to have occured yet againhttps://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/04/28/california-approves-worlds-first-regulation-to-phase-out-dirty-combustion-trucks-and-protect-public-health/
There has been pushback on some of the most egregious regulations like trying to ban gas stove but this one might still be alive
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Does it have a Trailer Hitch on said bus?? Get you one of these and plug it up while running down the road. Kinda defeats the Green Deal but makes as much sense as the rest of it.
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Someone asked him that on his YOUTUBE channel and he said no. ABC and VAN-HOOL want to test it without that to see how well it works. Dealing with some of those "outlet malls" is always a nerve racking experience for that bus. He has a new video every day with this trip. They are supposed to be in El Paso by now. You can subscribe to his channel and get the lastest. He's gonna edit some of these down once he gets home.
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How many days to El Paso?? Old Guys might be dead of old age with a trip across America.
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They are about a day or 2 behind because the charging control box crapped out in Tucsan, AZ.. So they had to wait for the nearest ABC service center to come out and fix it. Remember this is a test so they have to take the good with the bad.
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Friend has a Tesla (owned for little over a year) and says the mileage he gets is half or less then what is promised (advertised) when it's 100+ degrees. That AC is a juice hog not to mention the battery doesn't like the heat. He doesn't even think about taking it on a trip anymore . He and Wife Was going to drive from Austin to Ruidoso last summer (600 Miles) Turned around in Roswell NM. (75 miles short) as it took them 3 days to get that far. He said never again. Be good to go get the Milk and Egg's at the corner store.
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Friend has a Tesla (owned for little over a year) and says the mileage he gets is half or less then what is promised (advertised) when it's 100+ degrees. That AC is a juice hog not to mention the battery doesn't like the heat. He doesn't even think about taking it on a trip anymore . He and Wife Was going to drive from Austin to Ruidoso last summer (600 Miles) Turned around in Roswell NM. (75 miles short) as it took them 3 days to get that far. He said never again. Be good to go get the Milk and Egg's at the corner store.
Here in the heat the complaints people have is the AC dosen't cool that great and the milage drops, other than that they love the Telsa I wonder ithe heating system since the heat is not needed what would happen in -10 degrees lol I don't want find out myself
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I have a coworker who's son has a TESLA S. It's a beautiful sedan but she says he still has another car with a gasoline engine since the range on the TESLA is so limited.
I'll tell you this though. If someone wants to give me a CADILLAC CELESTIQ and have an electrician come over to my house to install a charger, I say where do I sign up? Beautiful looking sedan that they are about to roll out.
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Electric Ain't ready for Prime Time even though these Idiot's are pushing it down your throat. Maybe in the Future. Biden Idiot's go away!
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Friend has a Tesla (owned for little over a year) and says the mileage he gets is half or less then what is promised (advertised) when it's 100+ degrees. That AC is a juice hog not to mention the battery doesn't like the heat. He doesn't even think about taking it on a trip anymore . He and Wife Was going to drive from Austin to Ruidoso last summer (600 Miles) Turned around in Roswell NM. (75 miles short) as it took them 3 days to get that far. He said never again. Be good to go get the Milk and Egg's at the corner store.
I find it hard to believe that it took 3 days to go 600 miles. Did he take a route that didn't include Tesla superchargers? Sounds like operator head space, would you trust him to solo your bus?
Any other charging solution is like filling your car with a one gallon gas can from a gas station a couple blocks away and trekking back and forth for each gallon.
Assuming a 50% reduction in range he would have had to charge six times with each stop taking about 45 minutes.
Electric cars from a trip planning start point can be a bit like flying an airplane, once you launch you are committed. When I first got my Tesla the supercharger network was just getting started and hey that took planning for a long trip!!!
Which I succeeded at!!!
The car is now smart enough to automatically plan your charging stops and monitors it while you are traveling to make sure you will get to your destination. With my lead foot I have been told a number of times to slow down to make it too my destination or it automatically changes where the next charging spot is. All you have to do is tell it where you want to go and it will pick the route...
The only quirk is that it assumes that your destination is a place you can charge overnight so you arrive with little remaining range. So I either stay longer at the last charging spot or specify a destination that is further down the road.
Note I have a 2014 Model S P85 that only needs a couple ounces of foot pressure to release my inter daemon at any point in time!!!
I will buy my next Tesla, when I need it to drive me around or can send it out to earn it's own living.
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I find it hard to believe that it took 3 days to go 600 miles. Did he take a route that didn't include Tesla superchargers? Sounds like operator head space, would you trust him to solo your bus?
Any other charging solution is like filling your car with a one gallon gas can from a gas station a couple blocks away and trekking back and forth for each gallon.
Assuming a 50% reduction in range he would have had to charge six times with each stop taking about 45 minutes.
Electric cars from a trip planning start point can be a bit like flying an airplane, once you launch you are committed. When I first got my Tesla the supercharger network was just getting started and hey that took planning for a long trip!!!
Which I succeeded at!!!
The car is now smart enough to automatically plan your charging stops and monitors it while you are traveling to make sure you will get to your destination. With my lead foot I have been told a number of times to slow down to make it too my destination or it automatically changes where the next charging spot is. All you have to do is tell it where you want to go and it will pick the route...
The only quirk is that it assumes that your destination is a place you can charge overnight so you arrive with little remaining range. So I either stay longer at the last charging spot or specify a destination that is further down the road.
Note I have a 2014 Model S P85 that only needs a couple ounces of foot pressure to release my inter daemon at any point in time!!!
I will buy my next Tesla, when I need it to drive me around or can send it out to earn it's own living.
First Charge was in LLano Tx. (75 miles) to top it off and Next San Angelo 200 miles away. don't know about the others. AC kills them in 100 degree heat. Told me He didn't like to get down low on Electric Meter. It is West Texas and lot's of open spaces. You have a gas stove. ;D
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That's right he wasn't comfortable letting it go too far down. Being that these "outlet malls are temperamental or run by incompetent people, they just stop at any long the route. In other words, you have to take it or leave it.
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That's right he wasn't comfortable letting it go too far down. Being that these "outlet malls are temperamental or run by incompetent people, they just stop at any long the route. In other words, you have to take it or leave it.
When they get them to run 300 or 400 miles with AC a blasting I would think about it. It's a 107 on the front porch right now. Been that way for a mouth or so.
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First Charge was in LLano Tx. (75 miles) to top it off and Next San Angelo 200 miles away. don't know about the others. AC kills them in 100 degree heat. Told me He didn't like to get down low on Electric Meter. It is West Texas and lot's of open spaces. You have a gas stove. ;D
Did he let the car plan the trip?
Not a problem arriving at a charge station with close to zero miles, it just charges faster at that station if it is a super charger. I am generally around 40 miles remaining range, but have gone as low as five miles remaining range arriving at a super charger.
What version Tesla does he have?
Here's there online trip planning site. https://www.tesla.com/trips (https://www.tesla.com/trips)
On a long trip like that I would look for a destination charger to spend the night at on the longest leg.
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Electric Ain't ready for Prime Time even though these Idiot's are pushing it down your throat. Maybe in the Future. Biden Idiot's go away!
This has been beat to death on BCM. EV is ready for some, not for others. There are numerous factors that one must take into consideration if it offers the desired level of value and practicality. You can check yourself but enough car buyers think something like Tesla is the number one choice today as it now outsells every other vehicle in the market.
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This has been beat to death on BCM. EV is ready for some, not for others. There are numerous factors that one must take into consideration if it offers the desired level of value and practicality. You can check yourself but enough car buyers think something like Tesla is the number one choice today as it now outsells every other vehicle in the market.
Don Telsa is number 10 or 13 in cars sales in the USA all depends on who telling the strory,Americans haven't warmed up to Telsa like other countries,pickups outsale Telsa in the US
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These TESLA chargers won't work on this VAN-HOOL. James answered that from several viewers. Apparently at some point there will be adapters available which would make sense. There's really no downside to standardization.
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I find it hard to believe that it took 3 days to go 600 miles. Did he take a route that didn't include Tesla superchargers? Sounds like operator head space, would you trust him to solo your bus?
He's not doing this himself. James has his wife and both daughters along with another driver and his wife. Unfortunately, those TESLA chargers don't work on this bus so they have a take it or leave it scenario. Remember this is a test to so what can work or not.
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I feel bad for James from Motor Coach World. So much to deal with. There is a place for electric cars, especially with regenerative braking in stop and go driving, but long distance driving is still In the future. By then, Hydrogen might be available for buses also...
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I find it hard to believe that it took 3 days to go 600 miles. Did he take a route that didn't include Tesla superchargers? Sounds like operator head space, would you trust him to solo your bus?
He's not doing this himself. James has his wife and both daughters along with another driver and his wife. Unfortunately, those TESLA chargers don't work on this bus so they have a take it or leave it scenario. Remember this is a test to so what can work or not.
(https://cdllife.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Screenshot-2023-08-03-at-4.09.25-PM-696x349.png)
Ah but large vehicles need Megawatt chargers which except for the Tesla-Semi there is no standard for!!!
Tesla has applied for the first government subsidy for the route Laredo TX to Fremont CA. It will have charging stations for the Tesla-Semi and other heavy vehicles.
https://cdllife.com/2023/tesla-seeking-97m-government-funding-for-electric-semi-truck-charging-route/ (https://cdllife.com/2023/tesla-seeking-97m-government-funding-for-electric-semi-truck-charging-route/)
I note that is a bit self serving on Tesla's part as most of the Texas Giga Factories car parts arrive in Laredo via a dedicated Tesla only boarder crossing lane and Fremont is their other large manufacturing location.
But hey the network will also service the LA and the Bay area and Electric trucks might be able to limp into Dallas and Houston...
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We still have to remember that this whole EV thing is new. As seen from this trip. people in electric cars are having trouble with the "outlet malls" too. It's a safe conclusion that this beautiful monster will be fine in short line hauls or day charters but not an extended vacation charter trip. James and Dennis love the way the bus rides and incredible power from the motor but the charging part always brings dread.
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Why not carry your own charging plug backed by a large generator?
Hybrid!
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Well from my impression, ABC didn't want a generator unit following them or towing it. They wanted to test the availability and obviously the quality of the "outlet malls" along the route. Yes, a hybrid version of this TDX would have been the best of both worlds
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The charging network for heavy truck and bus is just barely rolling out, driven in part by Tesla, yet again, to provide charging for the Tesla semi. They have applied for permits and financial support for building out the Giga charging stations between Freemont CA and the TX plant. Hey, gotta start somewhere, might as well be where there will be plenty of traffic and need. LOL
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I read where we only have 22 charging stations per 1000 miles average for the EV's lol I would be the one that never made it to a charging station,lot of work needed on a already overloaded electric grid system,they have gotten the cart before the horse
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humm. somebody recently suggested stats like this can be misleading. LOL What and where roads were included?
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Then you throw in that many of these outlet malls have units that either don't work and/or don't have the capacity as advertised. Then you call and get put on hold for up to an hour. No there is much work to be done and that doesn't even address the grid to support all of this pipe dream.
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humm. somebody recently suggested stats like this can be misleading. LOL What and where roads were included?
It was in one of Bidens cash give away programs I think was the laughable Inflation Reduction Act,Musk the richest person in the world got his slice of the pie, the miles of hiways we have in the USA I can see how they can juggle the numbers to rape taxpayers.
They have to have backup plan for charging EV's probably generators for parts of the country tornadoes, hurricane and ice storms take a power grid out for weeks or months
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Wind! - tornados and hurricanes are great sources of wind. lol
an ah-ha just now. I always wondered why solar panels are really strong, like you can stand on them. Out here in sunny Calif. we don't think about harsh weather. Panles need to endure much forceful weather but i guess there is a limit - once a tornado rips off a solar panel all bets are off.
crabby - at least for tesla charging network tech,, the app provides to the minute and charging unit, the current status. They have a very robust monitoring infrastructure to keep them up and running.
Now that the EV industry has thrown in the towel on their own charging plugs and adopted the Tesla plug and agreements allowing non-Tesla to use the Tesla system, non-home EV charging is moving quickly.
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But, I don't see or read anything about infrastructure where all this "around the clock" additional power is going to come from to charge all these vehicles that are supposed to replace ICE cars, trucks and buses.
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Watch some Elon youtubes where he lays out his vision for energy storage. Think 'powerwall' and "Megapack'. You should be warned not to be against him. He hits bullseyes far more than missing the target.
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The largest manufacture of electric buses filed for bankruptcy (Protrra) today,the same outfit involved with the Vanhool
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That's interesting but not a surprise since many buses equipped with the PROTERRA system have had many problems. CUMMINS also has electric drive system but I don't know if they are better or not. BLUEBIRD uses them.
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Sorry to hear that but there will be more fallen than those left standing in the end. I'm sure there are other electric bus companies that will stay in the fight. For local transit and regional use, it does work.
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The largest manufacture of electric buses filed for bankruptcy (Protrra) today,the same outfit involved with the Vanhool
Perhaps there are just internal problems with them and some other company will take them over. If not hey, competition is never a bad thing. At least James and crew made it to the Florida ABC dealer just fine. They had a nice time with the exception of the charging parts.
The only problem with the bus itself was the charging control panel crapped out the second or third day. I'm sure that's 13 days James and his family will never forget.
https://www.youtube.com/live/fjq6vqdKBxA?feature=share
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The largest manufacture of electric buses filed for bankruptcy (Protrra) today,the same outfit involved with the Vanhool
Yeah and the Lefties 75 miles East of me in Austin ordered 175+ of the buses 2 years ago. Hope they didn't put anything down but bet those Idiot's did.