BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on September 07, 2023, 07:28:40 PM
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How many people on here use Starlink? I see more and more people using it in campgrounds and some of my friends have it.
The $600 hardware fee is a bit steep for what you get in my opinion and I can probably afford that if I save my pennies. But when I consider the monthly fee of $150, which seems to keep ratcheting up every few months, it can cost a lot to use this system.
At $150/month, that comes out to $1,800/year to be connected.
If I get it, I will probably use it for at least 10 years, good lord willing, and that comes to $18,000, and that is assuming no price hikes, which will happen, guaranteed.
My Verizon and T-Mobile hotspots come in about 95% of the places I travel, so I figure it will cost me $18,000 to get connected 5% of the time that I can't connect any other way.
Also, because I travel and live full time in my bus, if I park someplace that I cannot get a cell phone connection, then I have a choice. I can either not check my email and the Forum for 2 or 3 days until I can get to a place where I can get a connection, or I can continue driving until I can reach cell phone service, maybe at the next rest area.
There have been very few times that I felt I needed Starlink to be connected.
That being said, I was parked on a beach in Mexico last February where there were no cell phone towers nearby. The connection was very spotty. Luckily my neighbor had Starlink and he let me connect to his system and I was able to get connected and get my work done. However, I could have easily driven about a mile towards town and connected with my hot spot.
Now if I was stationary in a remote mountain cabin in the middle of Colorado, then yes, I would get Starlink in a heartbeat, but in my current situation, it is hard to justify the $18,000 price tag to stay connected for 10 years.
The other thing about Starlink, unless you mount the antenna on your roof, you have to get it out of a packaged box and set it up and run the cable and connect it every time you stop. Then when you get ready to leave, you have to take it down, box it up with the cable and store in your bus. Yes, one more thing to have to make room for in your bus.
If I were to stop in a rest area for the night in the middle of nowhere for a day or two, is it really worth it? Besides it may get run over or stolen.
You also need a clear view of the sky in the direction the satellites are, and if you like to park under trees, a roof mount system is not ideal.
Sometimes it is nice to have my hotspots and just turn on my laptop and be connected 24/7 without haveing to even get out of the bus.
What are your thoughts? Do you have Starlink? Are you considering getting it?
BTW, there are a couple of Facebook pages dedicated to Starlink, and if you read those, you will see that there are problems now and then with those units, which seem to be quite brittle and they get blown off roofs and damaged all the time, then it takes a while to get a replacement unit. This can be a problem especially if you are traveling around the country. But if you are considering one of these units, I encourage you to start following one of the Facebook pages on these to learn all you can before you buy one.
Here is one of the pages I follow that deal with traveling around with one of these units. https://www.facebook.com/groups/214109926791586
So the question is, do you have Starlink or are you planning on ordering it soon?
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We had it in our rental house in Melaque last winter - its great but I'm too cheap to pay the $150/month.
Something you may want to look into though, I can't remember where I read it but the mobile systems don't have as high a bandwidth as the home systems AND they can be selectively degraded further depending on the load in the area where they are situated. For $150/month I'd want to be 100% sure I was always getting my 100+ MB down
For Mexican data its simple to get a Telcel phone and use Carlos' data. Its so cheap we actually use it in the US and Canada as well but the Canadian roaming is pretty sketchy.
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I got one last year, a couple months after release. It was in use for a few months last season as there was zero reliable data service nearby. There was good service in the park but that was a half mile away. It was not a necessity but a huge luxury to have high speed 24x7 inside and around the bus. Stream just like home and wifi cell service was great.
Purchase price is a one time sunk cost. Just another bill to pay being a bus owner. The monthly charge is not trivial so the price depends 100% on what it is worth to you. If you were a remote worker, 40 hours a week online in your bus, most would probably see sufficient benefit for the cost. On the other end, if you camp a couple weekends a month where there is no service, then it probably is more a luxury if just for personal use. But if you need to stay connected for business then it may very well be offer sufficient value. Closing one business deal might easily pay for years of service.
As to the setup. Mounting permanently makes it harder to get clear sky. you park under the tree for shade, well, you get no starlink. Placing the dish outside where there is clear sky is very simple. It's not anywhere the nuiance made out earlier. There is one cord and the dish and stand. big deal. unwind the cord, put the dish down, hook up inside, and you're done.
Now, all that said. This season, I have still not hooked it up. Everywhere the bus goes, there has been good 5g cell service. Stream away and hotspot, all good. Service is month to month but there is a 30 day cycle and if you miss the window, you're facing another month's charge. Again, it all depends on the value it offer to you.
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Been a year and a half now and no complaints, works great! We have the mobil plan with Dishy mounted on a pole. Getting ready to wire the coach so I can plug the cord in down in the bay. I heard you can pause service if its a mobile plan, I dunno... again works for us as we are fulltimers.
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I don't have Star Link, I don't work from home, don't watch many movies or do Utube so don't need it.I have friend with a good income plus his S/S and asked why he didn't have the service ,he told me it would cost him 1 month a year of his S/S and he had other things to spend the money on.I checked into StarLink per Van but could not see where it be a cost I could justify, plus I can see where the price will keep going up and with more subscribers the speeds are slowing down. I am signed up for a new high speed internet service from the power co. when it reaches our area and it only going to cost me $19.00 a month unlimited with cell phone service because of our age I can live with it.I have Frontier now it sucks and cost me a $104.00 a month
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When we went to Alaaka this summer I looked into a sat phone because I don't like being out of touch for a couple of reasons. After comparing the price of rental or buying a sat phone it worked out that starlink was not that much more and we were connected to the net. We bought starlink and was happy with the service. A little pain in the butt to set up and tear down but at no time were we out of touch. Now We have to decide if we want to replace our service at home for 40 dollars a month more or put starlink on stand by for 4 bucks a month until we need it in the bus.[
Wayne
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The monthly is not that big a deal, since millions of people blow more that that on Dish subscriptions. 500 channels and nothing to watch. If Starlink works that great, from what I've heard, just cut back on booze and cbd.
I finally dumped our Dish, along with land line last spring. Not missed. Do have Sirius-Xm lifetime though, until it goes bankrupt.
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The house in Williams, AZ has no reliable cell service, especially when the families come up from phoenix to get out of the heat. The bandwidth is used up by the kids on their cell phones, board with the forest. Hugesnet was bad from the begining and also unreliable and costly. And even worse on cloudy and rainy days. Starlink has less problems with the rain and snow. And now she can use it to do zooms all over the world or teach her classes from home when needed...
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We have two houses and the bus. Starlink replaces the subscription at both houses. That comes out cheaper. And we have great service at the bus anywhere. Only takes 10 minutes to set up. Zip tie the antenna to the top of the ladder. Router in a baggage bay with a 110V outlet. Internet in another 5 minutes. Win win. Yea Elon!
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When we were traveling a lot internet and Tv was something we never thought about we enjoyed the ride and sights along with taggled fishing reels, Musk the richest man in world won't miss my $150.00 a month
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Don't have Star-link. We use our t Mobil phones or 100 gig t mobil hotspots to include cabling it to the TV for streaming. We pay 50 a month added to our t Mobil bill. No setup and works below trees too.
Gary maybe if you sold the plane, the Yacht and the Cabin in the mountains you could afford Star-link, Just sayin! :^
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You can flat mount it on the top of the bus so you don't have to mess with it.
Maybe look at it another way and say hey I can Boone dock a few days a month to offset the cost.
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I've had the original Starlink antenna running at home for two and a half years. It has been increasingly reliable, and the speeds and bandwidth are more than adequate for a few HDTV streams at a time.
For on-the-road use, I have a T-Mobile 5G hotspot from Calyx Institute. Unlimited data for $750 the first year, then $500 per year after. I just renewed today. I don't often find myself staying anywhere that doesn't have a good T-Mobile or Sprint signal, so it has been a fantastic mobile solution. It's a bonus that it is available at home for brief Starlink outages. The speeds are usually quite a bit faster than Starlink. I've seen well over 400 Gbps in urban areas or along highways.
https://members.calyxinstitute.org/enroll/membership
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Don't have Star-link. We use our t Mobil phones or 100 gig t mobil hotspots to include cabling it to the TV for streaming. We pay 50 a month added to our t Mobil bill. No setup and works below trees too.
Gary maybe if you sold the plane, the Yacht and the Cabin in the mountains you could afford Star-link, Just sayin! :^
;D :D ;)
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I saw on the news a while back that Amazon is planning their own version of Starlink. I'm stocked with popcorn to see how this works out.
Imagine in 30 years, these rusting cell towers everywhere no more in use, abandoned. Years back when I first started seeing them that was a dumb idea; why couldnt they use a satellite system like maybe Hughes but 100 times better. I considered Huges years back, but too slow, too limited, and way out of my price range.
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Years ago Sprint had satellite internet and we had it but every time someone sneezed it would go off and then on 30 minutes later and then on for a few hours and then off again we finally canceled >:( it.
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in the mood to hi-5 Elon, yes, I'm a huge fanboy. Who ever in history owns private companies that designs, builds, and launches a worldwide network of satellites to connect the global and sends them up with rockets that he designs and builds. One could characterize as a one-man NASA. And beyond when he gets ppl to Mars. Only the insane possess this much genius.
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Years ago Sprint had satellite internet and we had it but every time someone sneezed it would go off and then on 30 minutes later and then on for a few hours and then off again we finally canceled >:( it.
Why didn't you just try some Antihistamines instead Dave? ;D
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in the mood to hi-5 Elon, yes, I'm a huge fanboy. Who ever in history owns private companies that designs, builds, and launches a worldwide network of satellites to connect the global and sends them up with rockets that he designs and builds. One could characterize as a one-man NASA. And beyond when he gets ppl to Mars. Only the insane possess this much genius.
Elon just sucks it up, I have often wondered how much it cost him when the geomagnetic storm of 2022 took out 40 of his satellites he needed to send back to orbit for his system
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Why didn't you just try some Antihistamines instead Dave? ;D
Gary no one NOSE! :)
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Elon just sucks it up, I have often wondered how much it cost him when the geomagnetic storm of 2022 took out 40 of his satellites he needed to send back to orbit for his system
He sends up 60 at a time and was for many months don't really think 40 is going to mess him up do you? :)
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Maybe needs to go in its own topic?
I found the idea for this on the Skoolie Swarm group and bought the Router as an experiment.
It has worked exceptionally well for me, admittedly we are not full time, but when I do use it for weeks at a time It works really good.
I have phone Service from a subsidiary of Verizon called Visible, $25 a month for unlimited Talk, Text and Data.
I bought this Router, GL-X750V2 https://www.amazon.com/GL-X750V2-Certified-EC25-AFFA-Installed-Dual-Band/dp/B08TRCSSZ4?th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/GL-X750V2-Certified-EC25-AFFA-Installed-Dual-Band/dp/B08TRCSSZ4?th=1)
The Visible Phone needs to be setup to work first, then take the Sim card out of the Phone and install it into the Router.
You need to go into the Router setup and change a few things outlined here.
https://forum.gl-inet.com/t/working-with-visible-network/23122 (https://forum.gl-inet.com/t/working-with-visible-network/23122)
When using the Hotspot on the phone it is restricted to around 5 mbps and it only allows 1 device at a time.
Once the sim card is installed in the Router you no longer have those restrictions and get 50 to 100 mbps and can connect as many devices as we want, we stream Netflix and Prime, I use it to connect and work through, basically use it as we would our Frontier Connection at home.
Another benefit we are not sure why works, when the phone shows 0 or 1 bar and can barely get signal the router pulls 3 or more bars and gets good signal, so if we are not getting signal on my wife’s phone (also Visible), I connect the Router and then connect the phone through wifi with the router, must be the bigger antenna’s or a better Receiver?
I have also used it to connect to the RV parks Wifi, then I only need to add the SSID and password to the router and all our devices stay connected to it, although most times we get better internet through the Visible link than we do through the RV park wifi.
When, if, we go full time after retirement, will probably get Starlink, until then this has worked really good and inexpensively for us.
Peter
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Before anyone try this out, read up first. Visible is cracking down.
https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/visible-cracks-down-on-unauthorized-device-use/
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Before anyone try this out, read up first. Visible is cracking down.
https://www.rvmobileinternet.com/visible-cracks-down-on-unauthorized-device-use/
Invisible...
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People are freaking out on the RV sites, their Starlink has been down for 30 minutes
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I show no obstructions or network issues on ours. Must have been a flock of Chinese balloons passing by lol! Maybe some geoengineering occurring above those rv'ers ;) poor fools! ;D
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People are freaking out on the RV sites, their Starlink has been down for 30 minutes
Yeah they did have temporary outage...
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Yeah they did have temporary outage...
I thought it was funny people so upset about not having internet for 30 minutes, I heard it was down for 1 hour
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ain't no joke when you can't get a trade in and lose ten grand or miss a important work meeting. internet is in the same basket as water and food now.
funny thing is I just got to campground just outside Yosemite. "Free wifi" - yeah - free for snails. but suprised as it works pretty good, did not want to pull out the starlink. no cell at all
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Well, I bit the bullet and ordered Starlink last week after reading your comments. It arrived yesterday. I plugged it in and went thru the setup routine which was so easy even I could do it, and it worked the first time. I am getting speeds from 10Mbps to 156Mbps depending on the mood it is in at the time. It is all over the map here in Benson, AZ for some reason.
I am getting spotty service on both cell phone hotspots here in Benson, AZ so I was getting frustrated, and was even getting spotty phone service, which Starlink can help with too. I also plan to travel deep in to Baja from January to March next year and cell service on some of those remote beaches can be spotty as well. So I figured I should order it now while I am in a location where I can get it shipped to me.
Now I need to look ways to cut costs, such as shutting down the Forum (just kidding), buying less fuel, or giving up one or both of my Verizon and T-Mobile hotspot plans cost me $70/month.
The only disadavantage to using Starlink is that, when traveling, if I overnight in a Rest Area which I frequently do, if I toss out both hotspots, I will have to set my Dishy outside where eventually get run over or stolen, so I may have to keep one of the Hotspots which does not need any setup and works as soon as I turn on my computer. The other solution is to permenantly mount it on the roof, but as others have pointed out, it will not work when parked under trees and other objects.
I am also paying $65/month for my Dish Network service, which I like because I always record the morning and evening news on CBS and ABC. By recording them, I can watch them when it is convenient for me and I can skip thru the way too many commercials. So my question to you folks, is there an online service where I can catch the morning and/or evening news and play it back at my liesure? I have a "smart" TV and subscribe to PBS and a couple other streaming channels, but I have not found a solution to get my fill of news, and either record it or watch it when I am ready to settle down for the night.
Does anyone have any ideas on this?
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Gary if you can get YouTube they have the evening and morning news of most stations even the BBC. We also have a Wingard 360 antenna on the roof and it picks up al the local news as well as most national news depending where you are. We get 5 channels that come in great and a bunch of old stuff that comes in weird picture.
Hulu and peacock give you lots of news too. HTH
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Gary if you can get YouTube they have the evening and morning news of most stations even the BBC. We also have a Wingard 360 antenna on the roof and it picks up al the local news as well as most national news depending where you are. We get 5 channels that come in great and a bunch of old stuff that comes in weird picture.
Hulu and peacock give you lots of news too. HTH
Okay great Dave. Thanks. How do I record them as I am seldom ready to watch the news when it comed on at the scheduled time?
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Okay great Dave. Thanks. How do I record them as I am seldom ready to watch the news when it comed on at the scheduled time?
Gary you got to get with the times, they have new gee whiz equipt for that now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/303601883308?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=OTSfXpOwT7O&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=zirz9_pmrv2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
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Gary you got to get with the times, they have new gee whiz equipt for that now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/303601883308?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=OTSfXpOwT7O&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=zirz9_pmrv2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Get with the times? This unit is 100 years old. ;D
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Gary,Glad you switched to the dark side. Here are some considerations. Our experience is not of FT but occasional trips of 10-20 days then back home for a month or two.
We cut the cord a number of years ago. The service that works best for us is YouTube TV. It replaces your cable/dish service and recording features. you can watch anytime anywhere, smart TV, TV with dongle, phone, tablet, etc. you mark the shows you want recorded, watch them anytime anywhere, even local channels. In fact, you can not watch local channels live when not at home. You can change the home location but not sure how often and what is involved, watching locals later works better for us anyway.
Cell service, voice and text. Starlink handles all this traffice just fine as long as it is turned on and getting a signal. You mention the dishy and yes you can mount on the roof then activate and position when you are parked. If you park in the shade you can get service you it is pointed where it can get signal, just like a TV dish.
I have Visible for 25 bucks a month for unlimited cell and data and hotspotting. This works great along with Starlink for 24/7 coverage of TV, cell, and internet access.
It is not cheap but you can get what you need. YouTubeTV is around 75, Visible 25, and 150 for starlink, yep 250. You might find something other than YouTubeTV that offers what you want; overall, it has a great lineup. Advantage is all in one service, one dish.
The other consideration is always on starlink uses around 2400 watts a day, about 100 watts an hour. For solar boondockers it adds up. Before startlink no problem on energy use but the added 2500 a day left no buffer so I added capacity.
If you are in dense RV areas like Quartzite, speed may be impacted, sometimes a lot. We never experienced problems in backcountry, rural, low density areas. When we went to Yosemite, starlink was pretty bad. It stalled and cut out during prime evening times. I suspect there are many permanent residents that use startlink for their home service as cell and internet services are meager.
Oh - mounting. you could add a bracket on two sides of the bus. then when you park you can stick the dish into the one that faces north where most SL sats are located. Height is not as important than direction. 1 minute to setup and take down.
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One of the biggest things to do is configure your cell phone for Wifi calling.
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Okay great Dave. Thanks. How do I record them as I am seldom ready to watch the news when it comed on at the scheduled time?
Gary youtube you has news any time you want and even other days you missed. Just put in the channel and time etc and who you want to hear it from.
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Some might find this interesting. STARLINK SATTELITE GRID.
https://satellitemap.space/
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Cool!
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Some might find this interesting. STARLINK SATTELITE GRID.
https://satellitemap.space/
Here's another site: https://starlink.sx/ (https://starlink.sx/)
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Musk lost 20 billion on Telsa could a rate increase be coming :'(
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Sounds to me like the solution is to not watch the news. If anything important happens someone will tell you, otherwise who cares? Do you really have a burning desire to know what someone you will never meet ate for breakfast?
Jim
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Sounds to me like the solution is to not watch the news. If anything important happens someone will tell you, otherwise who cares? Do you really have a burning desire to know what someone you will never meet ate for breakfast?
Jim
Gary has a little different need for internet service , I see him working on his magazine for hours a day when he is parked here lol he gets off in BS sometimes like all of us do. Me I have no need to pay $150.00 a month for internet service on the road,a $150.00 will buy you 40 gals of diesel fuel to move on.Wifi sucks in rv parks but the cable works ok if you watch TV
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The cost is not the driving factor, think in terms of value. What does the starlink provide, 24/7 internet, text, and phone service? What are you missing out without those services? It can be very simple math for anyone working remote on the road, anyone who needs to not miss any important call or text and lose a deal, anyone who stays abreast of the market and misses an opportunity to exit or enter a position. Less value if you are just watching entertainment shows or yakking with someone on the phone.
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The cost is not the driving factor, think in terms of value. What does the starlink provide, 24/7 internet, text, and phone service? What are you missing out without those services? It can be very simple math for anyone working remote on the road, anyone who needs to not miss any important call or text and lose a deal, anyone who stays abreast of the market and misses an opportunity to exit or enter a position. Less value if you are just watching entertainment shows or yakking with someone on the phone.
I don't believe that many people here use SL for business and stocks LOL sometimes like today I wish I didn't know what what my 3500 shares of F (Ford) was trading at,I get alerts on the my cell phone for stocks I do all mine through a broker and not into day trading on my own
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Does anyone have any ideas on this?
[/quote]
This is a sincere answer:
If you watch news in the morning, it sets your mind on things that distract you from important things.
If you watch news in the evening, it sets your mind on things that distract you from resting.
Never, never, never watch the news. It actually causes brain damage.
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Does anyone have any ideas on this?
This is a sincere answer:
If you watch news in the morning, it sets your mind on things that distract you from important things.
If you watch news in the evening, it sets your mind on things that distract you from resting.
Never, never, never watch the news. It actually causes brain damage.
I glance at the headlines in the mornings from both sides to see who is telling the biggest lie for that day
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I glance at the headlines in the mornings from both sides to see who is telling the biggest lie for that day
:^
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Does anyone have any ideas on this?
This is a sincere answer:
If you watch news in the morning, it sets your mind on things that distract you from important things.
If you watch news in the evening, it sets your mind on things that distract you from resting.
Never, never, never watch the news. It actually causes brain damage.
You got morning and evening covered - brain damage. And you get schizophrenia from watching CNBC during the day. lol
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:^ :^ :^ :^ :^ :)
And woke up to 28 and fells like 20 this morning. New comforter coming this morning Ahhh. Life is good. :^
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Wow winter just showed up huh?
We use a vintage rectangular goose down sleeping bag as a bed comforter in temps like that than as you said: "Ahhh life is good" :^ Stay warm.
We're not in the 90s anymore but still in the 80s.
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70 here today and sunny. so boring but... . . . .NEVER gets old! lol
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:^ :^ :^ :^ :^ :)
And woke up to 28 and fells like 20 this morning. New comforter coming this morning Ahhh. Life is good. :^
Turn the ac off, summer is over!😫
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Van Thats funny we just turned off the ac's last week but might have to run them next week going back up to 85 for a few days, LOL
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Van Thats funny we just turned off the ac's last week but might have to run them next week going back up to 85 for a few days, LOL
Sonja wanted to go to Rim Rock for a few days no way I am going to lows of 4 degrees lol she can wait,I offered to take her to Scottsdale I can live with 52 degrees for a low but not 4 degrees
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I've had the original Starlink antenna running at home for two and a half years. It has been increasingly reliable, and the speeds and bandwidth are more than adequate for a few HDTV streams at a time.
For on-the-road use, I have a T-Mobile 5G hotspot from Calyx Institute. Unlimited data for $750 the first year, then $500 per year after. I just renewed today. I don't often find myself staying anywhere that doesn't have a good T-Mobile or Sprint signal, so it has been a fantastic mobile solution. It's a bonus that it is available at home for brief Starlink outages. The speeds are usually quite a bit faster than Starlink. I've seen well over 400 Gbps in urban areas or along highways.
https://members.calyxinstitute.org/enroll/membership
So I have looked at plans offered by calyx.
None of the hotspots offer an external antenna port. Have you tethered to another device ro allow for an external antenna?
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So I have looked at plans offered by calyx.
None of the hotspots offer an external antenna port. Have you tethered to another device ro allow for an external antenna?
No, I haven't. I'd like to have the external antenna option for the bus, but I don't really need it at the moment. I'm not particularly savvy with computer and internet stuff though, so there may be options.
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Does anyone have any ideas on this?
This is a sincere answer:
If you watch news in the morning, it sets your mind on things that distract you from important things.
If you watch news in the evening, it sets your mind on things that distract you from resting.
Never, never, never watch the news. It actually causes brain damage.
I try to have my news filtered by the late night comedians...
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It really doesn't matter what one watches the news on or networks they all put their spin on it, When they tell me how great times are all I do is feel my wallet or open a bank statement. Stocks are over inflated, they can use fuzzy math and over inflate the profits legally to get the stock prices up,. It doesn't cost them anything either they can defer the taxes for 5 years .It caught up with Toshiba and looks like FedEx is deep now with the fuzzy math. Did you know the DOW is gaged on 30 stocks out of the 1000's listed and 15 are Trillion dollar corps. I laugh at friends when fuel prices were up Biden had no control now the prices are easing guess who is in control according to the media :-* and my friends
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I'm just assessing this site that purports to be unbiased and collects data from many online news sites. So far, so good.
Ground News
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/ground.news
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Remember when Journalists reported the news and didn't give their personal opinions. The days when polls were real and not created by corporations who were paying politicians to get their way and screw us.
When there were crooked people in the Government and other people in congress or the senate would vote to get rid of them instead of covering up before someone figured it out and when news outlets weren't payed to push a person to vote for a person that made them the most from made up stories. And politicians who didn't call others names like 3 year olds do and actually respected each other even when they were on the other side.
Yep I don't either.
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Remember when Journalists reported the news and didn't give their personal opinions. The days when polls were real and not created by corporations who were paying politicians to get their way and screw us.
When there were crooked people in the Government and other people in congress or the senate would vote to get rid of them instead of covering up before someone figured it out and when news outlets weren't payed to push a person to vote for a person that made them the most from made up stories. And politicians who didn't call others names like 3 year olds do and actually respected each other even when they were on the other side.
Yep I don't either.
Dave
Thats been awhile since Clinton worked with Newt and R/R worked with Tip O'Neal now it's about control and power. I am just setting around waiting on the Green leaders to go after appliances in RV's,I read today every citizen in the US has a $100,000.00 liability for our debt lol bet you never knew were in debt for a 100 grand I didn't
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Dave
Thats been awhile since Clinton worked with Newt and R/R worked with Tip O'Neal now it's about control and power. I am just setting around waiting on the Green leaders to go after appliances in RV's,I read today every citizen in the US has a $100,000.00 liability for our debt lol bet you never knew were in debt for a 100 grand I didn't
Should count towards your credit score aye? ;)
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Should count towards your credit score aye? ;)
LOL our government has taken a hit. Yours is coming :^
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Lol nope I gave them Van's address,,,,,,..... :^