BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: RichardEntrekin on November 09, 2023, 04:49:59 PM
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Have any of you ever seen anything like this? This was found in the oil pan of a Series 60 engine powering a Newell.
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The pic is not helpful. I will get a better pic from the owner and repost.
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Trying again with image.
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My take at what I'm seeing:
It appears in color to have copper or brass in it.
From the looks it appears to have melted to liquid and reharden when cooled.
Where did it come from?
Somewhere in the engine with a composition alloy containing copper &/or brass that got hot enough to molten then cool to form smooth droplets?
Strange.
I have shared this on the BGM forum to get feedback.
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Looks like a a ceramic cam roller starting to flake off
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Thank you both.
Head is coming off to check the top end.
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Richard,that could be some type mellitic stop leak that found it's way into the oil. ? is that a EGR series 60
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What was the reason for removing the pan?
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One of those metallic looking pieces was found in the oil catch pan when changing the oil. The owner felt like it needed further investigation. No known engine issues at this point.
It was an abundance of caution approach.
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Cliff,
Anything is possible. The owner didn’t put anything like that in the engine, but he is not the first owner.
I am a Chemical Engineer, and that was my first guess too. It looks like something has precipitated out of solution to form those nodules.
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https://newellgurus.com/showthread.php?tid=7663
Here is a link to the thread on the Newell guru site.
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Here's a post copied from the BGM site of maybe something to ponder:
"Does it have a Delco 50DN hanging anywhere with a #16 oil return directly to the pan ? The amount of copper , lead , bearings , and most anything else can directly make it to the oil pan .don’t be so fast to yank the head off a perfect running 60 series."
@Richard Your mention of something precipitating out of solution to form those nodules caught my attention but is above my carpentry skills.
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Here's a post copied from the BGM site of maybe something to ponder:
"Does it have a Delco 50DN hanging anywhere with a #16 oil return directly to the pan ? The amount of copper , lead , bearings , and most anything else can directly make it to the oil pan .don’t be so fast to yank the head off a perfect running 60 series."
@Richard Your mention of something precipitating out of solution to form those nodules caught my attention but is above my carpentry skills.
Most Newells with the series 60 have a 12v air cooled Leece-Neville alternator
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It does look a little like you would expect from melted windings dropped in oil...
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Even if he had a 50 D the way they are made in 3 sections winding would all be impossible to enter the oil system without a complete destruction of the 50D and the belt would have melted before that happen
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aren't some 50DN use gear drive?
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aren't some 50DN use gear drive?
Not on series 60 engines ,the only place you find that piece of crap is on the 2 stroke engines in buses
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Thanks for the ideas. I will keep this forum in the loop on what is found. I misspoke about pulling the head. I should have said pulling the valve cover. It’s quite a chore on the Newells because the bathroom floor access hatch has to come up to get the valve cover off.
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Richard the turbo and the air compressor returns to the oil pan also
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I just can't imagine what else in the engine could melt copper and drop it in oil but still have the engine run normally. Thrust bearing maybe? If that was really tight at initial startup I suppose it could melt down the thrust flanges. Might check the crank for end play.
Jim
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I just can't imagine what else in the engine could melt copper and drop it in oil but still have the engine run normally. Thrust bearing maybe? If that was really tight at initial startup I suppose it could melt down the thrust flanges. Might check the crank for end play.
Jim
I think it is the ceramic cam rollers
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probably read wrong(me)--your 99 should be a pre egr engine. My 2000 60 series is pre egr. There was a problem with lifter and head bolts around then. They said to replace head bolts one they were used..Cliford is much better than I on this stuff.. I am still curious..Bob
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Bob the series 60 used powered steel at some locations in the head like valve guides it is supposed to be stronger than other material but I never did buy into it myself
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Cam followers and all bearings look good. No brass or copper glitter in the upper end.
The 50DN alternator appears to have been changed out sometime in the past.
The leading idea by the mechanics and gray beards in the shop is the alternator fried and deposited copper in the oil pan.
But all of this is conjecture.
Thanks for your input.
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That is a hard one to figure out since copper melts at 1984 degrees and oil has a autoignition at 600 to 800 degrees
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Have any of you ever seen anything like this? This was found in the oil pan of a Series 60 engine powering a Newell.
Did you find out what it was ?