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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on November 18, 2023, 09:35:01 AM

Title: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on November 18, 2023, 09:35:01 AM
Here are the latest rules for operating heavy equipment and buses in California.

In general, California registered motorhomes and California registered agricultural vehicles will be required to test annually on a schedule that aligns with each vehicle’s DMV registration expiration day. However, for 2024 only, compliance deadlines for all vehicles will be extended to the second half of the year to provide vehicle owners with added time to determine which compliance testing option best meets their needs.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/guidance-vehicle-owners-2024-periodic-testing-requirements-vehicles-subject-0?fbclid=IwAR30P45OTb3yTOHVwZHQulD15e_ZdYiu1un7d1XbYPsxLcocqRwaAN30PT8
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: windtrader on November 18, 2023, 10:24:44 AM
Thanks for posting here. I've been following this for some time and am happy to share my experience with the process.
My personal interpretation is most of we California resident busnuts with older 2 stroke diesel engines are affected by the new regulations. Previously a bus converted to an RV was titled as a motorhome/housecar and exempt from CARB smog regulations.

Two steps are important. First, you need to register with CARB and add your details to the database. The deadline is end of this year.
Second step is compliance which requires a smog test that is submitted to DMV to renew registration. As stated, those with tags expiring in the first half of the year get extra time but after that time, the valid test is required at time of registration renewal.
FYI - I wanted to know if my bus was going to pass; it does as confirmed via opacity test performed a few months ago.
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: luvrbus on November 18, 2023, 10:43:25 AM
People are dreaming about 2 strokes living in CA ,CARB will get you the next time around there is no way they will allow the most emission omitting engine ever made to keep running on the roads in CA. My friend that owns a testing center in Needles says all it is going to take is some body in a new EV to call about smoke and they will pull you over. 
Bus owners went through this crap with CA with 45 ft buses they made you truck 45  ft buses across CA that were legal in every state for a few years till the feds said no you can control a state highway but not a federal highway
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 18, 2023, 12:47:49 PM
CARB didn't know much about them and didn't care until someone shock the Beehive, Just sayin. :)
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: luvrbus on November 18, 2023, 12:57:18 PM
CARB didn't know much about them and didn't care until someone shock the Beehive, Just sayin. :)


CARB  has been after the 2 strokes since the early 80"s or mid 70's DD did everything possible to please that group. Don Fairchild worked for years and every time he would get close they would raise the bar, he finally threw in the towel and called it quits at Teir 1 ,there are more friendly states for 2 strokes than CA ,  AZ in some counties are testing those for emissions now ,if they don't have the original emission  sticker for the year made they won't register a older bus it sucks here Mohave County they don't care but I look for that to change
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 18, 2023, 04:19:42 PM
They didn't care about old RV bus conversion it was only trucks in Commercial service and especially fleets in 2010. Then someone let them know all about Bus conversion and now they will start little by little working to stop them too. I no longer care I don't live there anymore and don't really care just funny how it happened. :^
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: dtcerrato on November 18, 2023, 05:22:00 PM
Is human smoking allowed in California?  :-X
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 18, 2023, 06:02:21 PM
@ Dan  What is Human Smoking? only outside and  around state and federal buildings..... Oh ya of all kinds of other things, LOL
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: luvrbus on November 18, 2023, 06:14:39 PM
@ Dan  What is Human Smoking? only outside and  around state and federal buildings..... Oh ya of all kinds of other things, LOL



CARB is bad news to owners but they have cleaned diesel engines up with all their rules  you see the newer trucks on the road the exhaust stacks are so clean they look polished and never a puff of black smoke from one now .I am still trying figure out what part the funny looking tips on the stack plays in emissions.
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: windtrader on November 18, 2023, 06:17:40 PM
the frustration is absolutely understood and well deserved and the historical trend has not been good for 2 stroke engines in CA. CARB has for all practical purposes hunted down and killed all vehicle 2 strokes and well on their way to killing them off on smaller garden equipment. I believe this round sweeps the ag vehicles and other off road, standing machines.

Might there be one final stab to vaporize what's left, who knows? I've not actually done an inventory of what is still legal. Clifford and other knowledgeable mechanics know better how much visual opacity there is at the 5% limit. I took mine in to get tested. CARB rules  specify the J1667 standard device for the smoke/opacity testing. It's the same as has been in place for years.

Personally, I sleep well this go around as mine tested at 1.5%. It is an accelerator or snap test so it will fail any engine that emits much visible smoke when under hard acceleration.

Now, those that fail have one more path which from my research should protect them for the long term. These buses are old enough to qualify for historical vehicle classification. You need a current title to convert but once you do it will fall into the category of all motor vehicles made from the beginning of time. There are some restrictions on use but it's not anything we need to worry about as nobody uses their bus conversions as daily drivers.
Long story short, if you got a clean engine, don't worry. If you fail, get it titled as historic.
What I still find amazing is the lack of comments from others impacted. Maybe I'm the lone bus conversion owner left in CA? lol
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 18, 2023, 07:06:20 PM
Clifford do you go to the state line to breathe clean air because you know it stops at Arizona. It can't leave the state LOL :^
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: dtcerrato on November 18, 2023, 07:22:56 PM
Clifford do you go to the state line to breathe clean air because you know it stops at Arizona. It can't leave the state LOL :^
Back a few decades when California's smog was a lot worse - meteorological data showed that the air quality at the Grand Canyon was obscured 158 days per year caused by LA basin smog. So I doubt if Clifford found better air at the state line. Lol
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: luvrbus on November 18, 2023, 07:48:34 PM
Back a few decades when California's smog was a lot worse - meteorological data showed that the air quality at the Grand Canyon was obscured 158 days per year caused by LA basin smog. So I doubt if Clifford found better air at the state line. Lol


We get a lot of bad air from CA when they have forest fires,the pot pollution is just when we get wind from the south they grow more pot in Needles than Mexico does. Needles is 1st place I ever saw where you charge your EV buy pot and smoke it in a restaurant lol you don't see no smoking signs around that restaurant and no I haven't been to that restaurant but Van and I are going to check the food out oneday   
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: Iceni John on November 18, 2023, 10:22:23 PM
I recently had my engine completely rebuilt after it ate a camshaft, so I assume it's now running as cleanly as it ever can.   The snap opacity test does still worry me:  it didn't take too many miles until my new exhaust tailpipe was completely sooted up inside!   I wonder if I can get an unofficial pre-test now to know if I'll pass the real opacity test in one year's time.   Fortunately my annual registration is due in December, so I should be getting my new registration very soon in the mail to last me until December next year.

Can a fully converted bus be considered a Historical Vehicle in California?   I thought a HV could only be in its original form, i.e. without having been converted or otherwise altered from the original.

John
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: luvrbus on November 19, 2023, 04:47:22 AM
I recently had my engine completely rebuilt after it ate a camshaft, so I assume it's now running as cleanly as it ever can.   The snap opacity test does still worry me:  it didn't take too many miles until my new exhaust tailpipe was completely sooted up inside!   I wonder if I can get an unofficial pre-test now to know if I'll pass the real opacity test in one year's time.   Fortunately my annual registration is due in December, so I should be getting my new registration very soon in the mail to last me until December next year.

Can a fully converted bus be considered a Historical Vehicle in California?   I thought a HV could only be in its original form, i.e. without having been converted or otherwise altered from the original.

John


Don't worry about the snap test they pass those if not totally out of adjustment yours is a  DDEC and turbo they did allow a few seconds for the turbo to spool on non DDEC engines, one can pass a snap test and smoke like a train under a load .Again  don't worry about the snap test the DDEC has you covered it will not give you more fuel than air to burn the fuel (A/R)
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 19, 2023, 11:14:40 AM

where you charge your EV buy pot and smoke it in a restaurant lol you don't see no smoking signs around that restaurant and no I haven't been to that restaurant but Van and I are going to check the food out oneday

Hope they have a big dessert bar,lol
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: luvrbus on November 19, 2023, 11:27:38 AM
Hope they have a big dessert bar,lol


They have a smoking bar there to ,I don't know about dessert lol maybe laced with something if they do
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: windtrader on November 19, 2023, 11:42:19 AM
I wonder if I can get an unofficial pre-test now to know if I'll pass the real opacity test in one year's time.   Fortunately my annual registration is due in December, so I should be getting my new registration very soon in the mail to last me until December next year.

Can a fully converted bus be considered a Historical Vehicle in California?   I thought a HV could only be in its original form, i.e. without having been converted or otherwise altered from the original.

John
John,That is exactly what I did, an individual request for a snap test. Apparently, most smog testers for commercial vehicles are mobile based and generally do a fleet on each visit, or some number of them. Doing a single vehicle is not the norm. I happened to call one who was very accommodating, and was nearby so he came over and performed the test for 90 bucks, handed me the test results, no need to file. CARB has a list of certified testers you can refer to.

Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: luvrbus on November 19, 2023, 01:51:00 PM
I was told CA emissions testing is going to triple in price starting Jan 2024 .Owners of buses in CA decided they don't need the larger injectors now they are after the 60's and 70's , shucking the 9A90 and 9G90's for less smoke
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on November 20, 2023, 06:49:56 AM
I was told CA emissions testing is going to triple in price starting Jan 2024 .Owners of buses in CA decided they don't need the larger injectors now they are after the 60's and 70's , shucking the 9A90 and 9G90's for less smoke

I am sure the state of California will reimburse owners for replacing their injectors...right?  ;D
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: luvrbus on November 20, 2023, 08:07:12 AM
The emission systems on new diesel pickups add $17.000.00 to the price,on class 8 trucks it is close to $40,000.00 it is wacky to maintain those cost big bucks too,  in the end old Joe the consumer pays  as always
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: windtrader on November 20, 2023, 10:45:17 AM
I was told CA emissions testing is going to triple in price starting Jan 2024 .Owners of buses in CA decided they don't need the larger injectors now they are after the 60's and 70's , shucking the 9A90 and 9G90's for less smoke
I've heard a single mention of increased testing fees. We are subjected to annual testing, other commercial engines are twice a year, so yeah, double the income. lol
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: luvrbus on November 20, 2023, 11:30:07 AM
I've heard a single mention of increased testing fees. We are subjected to annual testing, other commercial engines are twice a year, so yeah, double the income. lol


They have already hit the truckers for $30.00 extra in July and by 2027 trucks and buses will be tested every 3 months  or 4 times a year
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: windtrader on November 20, 2023, 09:05:52 PM
The Clean Truck Check program regulations on all things not involving our 2 stroke bus conversions is stricter, details beyond that I have no clue other than the testers are going to be getting a lot more business.
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: luvrbus on November 21, 2023, 11:57:57 AM
CARB is going to get you Don, in time just a few years ago everyone was saying old 2 cycle buses converted to RV's were exempt from emissions, now you have testing  8) they have their foot in the door
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: muldoonman on November 21, 2023, 01:42:32 PM
Yes, the handwriting is On the wall for the Old Mighty 2 Strokes in Liberal DemoRat run Commiefornia. Heck, bring um to Texas. So far, they ain't lost their minds.
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: Iceni John on November 21, 2023, 03:31:54 PM
I was looking at my Pink Slip today, and it only says MH (motorhome) as Body Type and D (diesel) as Fuel.   It doesn't state the weight or axles, so how does CARB know what a 1990 Crown motorhome is?   (Crown went out of business in 1991 and never made any RVs, so it may not be obvious to CARB what it is.)   Maybe it could be a small RV with a small diesel engine that doesn't fall under their oversight?   If, hypothetically speaking of course, one 'forgot' to register one's vehicle with CARB, how would CARB know about it?   Just wondering...

John
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: windtrader on November 21, 2023, 03:32:41 PM
I'df not be surprised something like that is already in the works. CARB lines this stuff years in advance. Clifford can attest to the number of years it takes to complete each program. It took 5-7 years for the main kill off of '97 and later engines.
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on November 21, 2023, 03:47:22 PM
I was looking at my Pink Slip today, and it only says MH (motorhome) as Body Type and D (diesel) as Fuel.   It doesn't state the weight or axles, so how does CARB know what a 1990 Crown motorhome is?   (Crown went out of business in 1991 and never made any RVs, so it may not be obvious to CARB what it is.)   Maybe it could be a small RV with a small diesel engine that doesn't fall under their oversight?   If, hypothetically speaking of course, one 'forgot' to register one's vehicle with CARB, how would CARB know about it?   Just wondering...

John

John, just slip a Kubota engine in there until it passes CARB then change it back out after you get back to the barn.  ;D
Title: Re: Nearly all diesel buses are subject to the Clean Truck Check.
Post by: luvrbus on November 22, 2023, 07:02:38 AM
John, just slip a Kubota engine in there until it passes CARB then change it back out after you get back to the barn.  ;D



That  won't do any good Gary ,CARB is going to test generators before long ,it is already done for standby emergency generators ,they are wanting tier 4 engines on the generators 
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