BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 28, 2024, 08:52:20 AM
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I just heard from a friend, if your bus breaks down in California and it has a 2-Stoke engine, then it is not allowed to be repaired in California. By law, you have to have it hauled out of the state to get it worked on. This may have started in January of this year. Thank you Gavin Newscum.
Is there any truth to this or does this only pertain to commercial trucks? Or maybe only to buses that are not titled in California.
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Don't know we don't live there anymore.
I guess someone could actually look up the law if there is in fact one that applies. Windtrader got an smoke test a few months ago and passed. He said it wasn't that bad. :^
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I'm pretty sure if this was true it would pertain to commercial vehicles if at all!
Lets stop the fear mongoring, That state already has everyone running scared as it is. YOU HAVE CHOICES IN CALIF. 1.VOTE THE SCUMBAGS OUT 2.LEAVE THE STATE 3. DO NOTHING LIKE GOOD SHEEP DO AND STFU AN SUFFER THE Consequences. :^
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I follow the Calif. DMV and CARB regulations quite closely as they related to older 2 stroke buses that have been converted to personal RV use and DMV issues motorhome titles.
CA bus conversion titled as motorhomes - CARB is implementing the latest round of regulations that impact the old 2 stroke buses under the Clean Truck Check/HD/IM program. The bottom line is there is now a new requirement to submit a smoke test annually. I had mine done for myself to know and it easily passes the opacity limits.
Out of state bus conversions titled as motorhome/RV are allowed to travel freely without regulation or penalties.
If you fall into one of these categories it seems highly unlikely any LEO is going to even attempt to cite or take any emissions actions against you. AFAIK, the only way LEO would take action is if you fail to have a current registration from the DMV and that is the agency that works with CARB on compliance.
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/CTC/about (https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/CTC/about)
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/california-air-resources-board-extends-deadline-initial-reporting-clean-truck-check (https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/california-air-resources-board-extends-deadline-initial-reporting-clean-truck-check)
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It's just a matter of time for the 2 Strokes in Commie Land.. Don't care how clean they run.
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Not a fatal blow unless they block titling as antique/historic which provides the last cave to hide. For how little mine is actually on the roads of CA in any given month, odds in favor of sliding by, that's even LEO has enough free time to hunt down an old bus.
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Smoking testing for Rv's in CA they said it would never happen, CA will tighten the rules till they are gone ,Same is happening in the Phoenix area it is getting harder to license one here .New trucks and buses burn so clean now and Bidens EPA wants more for emission control ,they taken the ash from engine oil and I read a article there is a new fuel compound coming for diesel
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Something else we can blame on Nixon, LOL
https://www.epa.gov/history/origins-epa
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Timely discussion as today the EPA slammed down the latest restrictions on emissions for new heavy duty trucks and buses. https://apnews.com/article/epa-trucks-buses-emissions-climate-electric-vehicle-77da206eed5d1950993e18a6f4439254 (https://apnews.com/article/epa-trucks-buses-emissions-climate-electric-vehicle-77da206eed5d1950993e18a6f4439254)
As stated, I'm not worried about keeping it legal on the road under the umbrella of historic classification. What is more worrisome is the further difficulty getting maintenance items as the market keeps shrinking. Then again, maybe we are already there.
How many big old Diesel engines are on the road or in the fields? Maybe the supplies are already trimmed to be specialty order items. You don't find the proper formulated motor oil stocked in store, mostly special order, and limited supply. I suspect it will remain the same from here on out, just another formulation that gets batches made according to demand, even low demand will still likely keep some around.
That said, we are well into the last season of life for these old beasts. It would be interesting to see actual registration stats on the number of old bus conversions. From the 90's there was a huge increase, then at some point fewer stayed on the road. My guess is the past decade has seen the curve flatten but still declining at a lesser level.
I'd speculate maybe 10% fewer register each year, what do you think? Gary can certainly comment on the general state and activity of the bus conversion community as he is deeply involved with the various groups. And please, let's not count the new bus conversion rolling out at a couple million bucks. lol
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Engine parts are getting harder to find even in the after market parts for the 2 cycle, they are made off shore and are Junk,I used a lot of F/P parts in the past they were good quality for after market they move their production to India and the parts are rough looks like they used a yard stick to measure tolerance with I sent 8 liners and pistons back they were so bad,I 1 set in the shop for 71 series they set me for inspection I'll use it as a paper weight
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That silly .you can find paperweights cheap than that I would think? :^
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Not a fatal blow unless they block titling as antique/historic which provides the last cave to hide. For how little mine is actually on the roads of CA in any given month, odds in favor of sliding by, that's even LEO has enough free time to hunt down an old bus.
They will probably flag when it comes time to register/tag them. Sold my Pristine 1991 XL to a guy up Northern Cali a couple years back , they flew in (Austin Tx.) bought it and He and Mechanic drove it back 1800 miles to place. He said he was gonna move it back to Dallas Texas where his brother lived as He knew then they were gonna kill um.
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The emission regulators are working overtime. Just got this update today pushing the dates down another six months to Oct. 2024. It was supposed to start Jan 2024, then got pushed to April 2024, now Oct 2024. I just noticed how ridiculous it's getting, really. They require testing twice a year (motorhomes 1/yr) to start, then they want testing done FOUR times a year. I agree with Clifford, they are working extra hard to just make them extinct without any outright bans.
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/barcu/regact/2024/hd-im_updated_eff_date_phase3_notice.pdf?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery (https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/barcu/regact/2024/hd-im_updated_eff_date_phase3_notice.pdf?utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery)
If aftermarket parts are really such poor quality then we are living in the end of times period now. Is there much decision on what - use substandard parts, find NOS, used OE, or part it out and sell as used OE parts?
Maybe there is a valid reason to watch and pick up good used OE parts and store them for the future. I'll assume some of the long time parts sellers stay around until they go to the old folks home, nobody is going to take over such businesses that run on passion rather than dollars.
As far as the guy who wants to move the bus from CA to TX, why? There is no reason to do so unless the engine is clapped out. That said, I do not know how poor an engine hits the limit, all I know is mine is very very clean and. should be fine until it goes to the graveyard.
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Don,DD 2 cycles are no different than any diesel made one could be ticking like a fine watch you shut it off and try to start it again and it goes up in smoke. Most fail on start up or over heating
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I've been editing articles from different technical authors and web sites on Hydrogen powered diesel engines for awhile. Hydrogen is the future to save our engines, retro fitting our old 2 strokes with hydrogen injection (which exists today, very similar to CNG injection that's been around for quite some time), or hydrogen electric which is new and available, or a complete hydrogen combustion engines as a replacement in the near future. I've presented these article to show you all, there is a future for those that want to keep using our bus conversions, for as long as we want, with dramatically reduced exhaust. Right now it's not cheap, but the price will come down. Let the naysayers spread their negativity, but there is a way and it will come to pass as a way to enjoy our hobby well into the future...
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As far as the guy who wants to move the bus from CA to TX, why? There is no reason to do so unless the engine is clapped out. That said, I do not know how poor an engine hits the limit, all I know is mine is very very clean and. should be fine until it goes to the graveyard.
My 1991 XL only had 96,000 miles when sold. I was second owner for 11 years. Bought it with 40,000 miles on it. Maintained by Stewart Stevenson Detroit in San Antone. It was perfect as the engine still looked new. Bright and Silver. The Company lost both Mechanics that worked on the 2 Strokes and couldn't find a soul to work on it that knew what they were doing with them. Seen the hand writing on the wall as Cliff is too far away to work on the little stuff. Next one will be a 4 Stroke. In Califorkia the Graveyard ain't gonna be very far away for the poor 2 Strokes.. ;D
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They said steam engines would always be around too. Used to be you had a boiler in every building of any size too. I know where there are a few steam engines but you have to make special arrangements to even see them. They aren't really building them any more for cars and trucks. Haven't been for quite some time now. That's a damn shame too, there's a lot to be said for a good external combustion engine. With today's technology it should be possible to build a really great one if anybody would just give it a chance. Well, I'm glad I am at least one step away from the 2 strokes. That might buy me a few more years.
Jim
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retro fitting our old 2 strokes with hydrogen injection (which exists today, very similar to CNG injection...
What is your opinion of cost and feasibility to retro a bus conversion? You are the one with the details: how large is the tanks equivalent to current diesel, what is the availability to fuel across the country, especially in rural areas where even gas is a challenge, and cost/compolexity of the conversion? From a value perspective, what does a conversion gain? thanks
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With some Motel 6 charging $186.00 a night and a burger, fries and Coke at 5 Guys for $24.00 conversions are looking good if you avoid a campground.4 strokes guys are not out of the woods in California either they don't want those unless they are 2010 and newer using DEF
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Tom (LVMCI) won't be investing in alternatives any time soon! He and Clifford just fired up his bus's newly built high dollar two stroke, sounds good by the way Tom! ;D :^
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Thanks Van. Just like any new technology, like cell phones, microwaves or VHS recorders,initial buyers will pay a high price. I would expect CNG injection systems into 2 strokes will see a price drop. The CNG injection systems do make a big dent in particulates and other aspects of polutiin.
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If I ever need to repower my rig I am thinking that it needs to be a diesel hybrid!!!
Check out Edison Motors https://www.edisonmotors.ca/ (https://www.edisonmotors.ca/)
Their YouTube channel where they built their first conversion and new truck in a tent:
https://www.youtube.com/@EdisonMotors (https://www.youtube.com/@EdisonMotors)
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If I ever need to repower my rig I am thinking that it needs to be a diesel hybrid!!!
Seconding this. I'm still partially convinced that the economics of hydrogen will never work on the road at scale and that it's just a distraction tech pushed by fossil fuel companies to delay the onset of EVs.
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If I ever need to repower my rig I am thinking that it needs to be a diesel hybrid!!!
Check out Edison Motors https://www.edisonmotors.ca/ (https://www.edisonmotors.ca/)
Their YouTube channel where they built their first conversion and new truck in a tent:
https://www.youtube.com/@EdisonMotors (https://www.youtube.com/@EdisonMotors)
x2 I saw a hybrid bus in mickey world at fort wilderness camp ground driving people to and from the parks . made by ballard industries Florida in 2006 ?
reg transit bus with a 35 hp diesel engine generator hybrid
this is the future if we did not live in a through away world
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Well with everyone bailing out on fossil fuels that will leave enough for the rest of us coal rollers ;) When or if my freshly built DDEC 892 lets go I'll just go to a 4 stroke 14ltr 60 series/B500 combo like I should have done from the very beginning. I'll let the next gen busnuts figure out a newer way of powering these Monoliths.
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I follow the Calif. DMV and CARB regulations quite closely as they related to older 2 stroke buses that have been converted to personal RV use and DMV issues motorhome titles.
CA bus conversion titled as motorhomes - CARB is implementing the latest round of regulations that impact the old 2 stroke buses under the Clean Truck Check/HD/IM program. The bottom line is there is now a new requirement to submit a smoke test annually. I had mine done for myself to know and it easily passes the opacity limits.
Out of state bus conversions titled as motorhome/RV are allowed to travel freely without regulation or penalties.
If you fall into one of these categories it seems highly unlikely any LEO is going to even attempt to cite or take any emissions actions against you. AFAIK, the only way LEO would take action is if you fail to have a current registration from the DMV and that is the agency that works with CARB on compliance.
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/CTC/about (https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/CTC/about)
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/california-air-resources-board-extends-deadline-initial-reporting-clean-truck-check (https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/california-air-resources-board-extends-deadline-initial-reporting-clean-truck-check)
Thanks Don. As mentioned previously let's tone down the fear mongering. It really means not much is going to change for RVs. Of course business people in CA want to bill out repair dollars. And tax gets paid too!
Thanks for the clarification.