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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: David Anderson on September 08, 2024, 07:24:20 AM
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I was getting ready to leave Fun Valley RV Resort in Colorado on Sept 5. On Sunday before I began checking the bus for the trip. I checked all my tires for air and noticed a couple of bubbles on the inside dual, street side. I jacked up the coach and removed both wheels to take to a tire shop to replace the inside tire. The tire had 90psi when I removed it. That is what I run in the drives and bogies. I run 100psi in the front.
I put the wheel in the back of my 2007 ford escape hoping to get a new tire on Tuesday after Labor Day when everyone reopens.
On Monday afternoon at 1:15pm the tire exploded in the car, breaking out the front and back windows, blowing out all five doors, raising the roof, and knocking the SUV spare tire from underneath the car. It was 75 degrees outside. It looks like it may be totaled. The explosion was as loud as Smokey the cannon at UT Longhorn football games. Glass was found over 100' away. Fortunately, no RV's were injured around me. If I had been in the car I really believe I would not have survived such a violent blast. None of the doors will latch closed correctly, now.
The tires were Toyo's M177, date code 4419. The guy at the tire shop could not find any evidence why that happened. The other tire is the same date code. It looks fine, but out of fear I replaced both.
I towed the car back to Texas. I will see if it is worth fixing in a few days.
David
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Very relieved there was nobody in the car. One major headache would be the least damage, likely something potentially far more serious could be sustained. I never heard of something like this happening.
Glad you are OK, car can be replaced. If you have full coverage insurance, the claim and conversation must be memorable. :)
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Glad you are OK, car can be replaced. If you have full coverage insurance, the claim and conversation must be memorable. :)
Just liability. The car is too old and not worth much, but it was such a great vehicle. The wheel was sitting next to the coach for a day within 5' of my neighbor's 5th wheel rig. If it had blown then it would have launched through his galley doing tens of thousands in damage.
I assume the bus liability insurance would cover that, but it won't cover damage to my own tow vehicle even though it was caused by a part from the insured bus.
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That is the reason I never did carry a spare tire on a bus and if I did it was unmounted, I saw a MCI at Kraft Tours in Tulsa the 15 year old spare exploded under the floor tore the dash out ,blew out the windshields , side glass and sent metal threw the roof on the MCI 9. Mr Kraft considered himself lucky no one was injured and removed all the spares from his buses
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It was 75 degrees outside. It looks like it may be totaled. The explosion was as loud as Smokey the cannon at UT Longhorn football games.
I towed the car back to Texas. I will see if it is worth fixing in a few days.
David
It could have been 120 degree's in the car so that more and likely put it over the edge.
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It could have been 120 degree's in the car so that more and likely put it over the edge.
Possible, but it should have been cooler than driving on a 110 day in the desert.
The tire guy said it should not have done what it did at that age.
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That is the reason I never did carry a spare tire on a bus and if I did it was unmounted, I saw a MCI at Kraft Tours in Tulsa the 15 year old spare exploded under the floor tore the dash out ,blew out the windshields , side glass and sent metal threw the roof on the MCI 9. Mr Kraft considered himself lucky no one was injured and removed all the spares from his buses
I'm with you on this after this fiasco. At least if you have a spare, inflate it to no more than 10-20 psi just enough to keep it beaded on the rim. Air it up when mounted before you lower the jack.
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The trouble with an old spare, or one that is not mounted, is that come time to re-inflate or mount, the same risk occurs. If a tire is too old in the opinion of the tire service, they won't touch it even if it is in a cage. Maybe inflating it to 50-60 lbs would reduce the risk of explosion, and still be usuable to get somewhere at slower speeds. All of this underscores the danger of inflating tires. It used to be worse with the split rims. I've only had one tire explode on me in the last 50 years, and it was on a truck sitting in the garage with no one around, and it was a second recapped Michelin.
David, was that Fun Valley Campground the one in South Fork, Colorado? I've been there several times back in the nineties. Back then it was owned by a Western Film Actor from Texas who used to bring up Mesquite firewood for the fires to cook the steaks on certain days. It was a great place for kids.
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I will lower the pressure in the spare.
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I will lower the pressure in the spare.
Yikes. I think I'll do the same. What's the minimum pressure that a bus tire can be slowly driven a few miles?
John
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I just got the area above the spare armored up. Went to the local military surplus and welded in thick plate. Let it blow, it may mess up the tarmac but leave the coach unscathed. all joking aside, this incident did jog me into thinking why have I not have a takeoff go into the spare. the that in there must be totally compromised by now.
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David, was that Fun Valley Campground the one in South Fork, Colorado? I've been there several times back in the nineties. Back then it was owned by a Western Film Actor from Texas who used to bring up Mesquite firewood for the fires to cook the steaks on certain days. It was a great place for kids.
Yes it is. I workcamped there all summer. It was paradise to me. 42 degrees every morning and 75 in the afternoon. It rained most of July and August, but usually only for an hour each day, then the sun would come out.
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Never give up, never surrender.
I had to try. I decided to see if I could put this car back together. We love this car as our towed, and finding a 5 speed manual in a Ford Escape is almost a lost cause. I found 2, one in Washington State, and one in Kansas. $8000 for an 07 with lots of miles. So, is it worth putting it back together? After a week's worth of work, yippee, it is.
First, I wanted to see if I could save the doors. I was able to bend the two back doors where they would seal up against the gaskets. Lots of creaking and popping, but I got them in alignment. The front doors were blown apart at the seams in the door shell, and no amount of racking or bending was going to revive these.
I spent a whole day driving to salvage yards in San Antonio. I found a hatch in the right color, but it had Hybrid trim pieces, and doors in different colors and different interior trim, etc, etc. I gave up and drove home.
I spent the next morning calling every salvage yard in San Antonio. After about 12 tries I found one that had two front doors and a hatch in MY color. The salesman said, "this is your lucky day". He quoted $750 for the 3 pieces. That was somewhat expensive, but this was a full service yard. They pull it and load it up for you.
I drove up the next day with my trailer hoping to get it all. The doors were missing both mirrors, the window keypads, and the interior trim was different. Oh, well, this is the best it will get, so I bought them.
I got the two doors on the next day. They fit just right. I pulled my old skins, mirror, and window keypad off and installed them on the driver's side. The window didn't work. Grrrr. Now I had to remove my old window operator from the wrecked door and transfer it the salvage yard door. This all took several hours. It all worked. I forgot about the keyed handle. It took me an hour to figure out how to remove my old handle. Finally' I figured it out and traded my keyed handle into the salvage door.
I then did passenger door. Fortunately, this window operator worked. This all took the whole day.
The next day I installed the hatch. It fit on the hinge mount, but nothing would line up. I finally could see the hinges were not coplaner. The left side of the roof was now higher than the right side. I had to hammer the drivers hinge downward about 1/2", very tricky to do and conceal the blow marks, but I was successful. Now the door was not aligning with the door strike pin. I raised it with 2 washers but it wouldn't latch correctly. Examination revealed the pin was too far to the rear about 5/8". I made a hammer block jig out of heavy oak hardwood and secured it to the frame of the rear of the car and wacked it 6 times with a 10lb sledge. It aligned correctly, but the washers misaligned the trim on the floor. Then I made another jig to raise the strike pin to eliminate the washers. I used my scissor jack under the jig and raised the frame where the strike pin is mounted about 1/4" and everything lined up. The door would seal correctly. This took me almost 2 full days. I cleaned the headliner where you could see the imprint of the wheel after it launched into the roof during the explosion. The explosion knocked the spare loose from the chassis and I had to make a new retaining pin to hold it in place. I cleaned out the car to rid it of all the broken glass, washed it and Armoralled the plastic inside. The car looks great. I drove it out on the hiway and no wind or road noise. I made sure to get all the sound insulation back in.
Tomorrow, I go to get a new windshield installed. Price quote is $192. So, for less than $1k I'm resurrecting my tow vehicle. I am really pleased. I really thought the old girl was going to the scrap yard.
David
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When I was first building the Bus and had not changed out any of the tires yet, I was working on the driver’s side drive axle, I had both of the drive tires leaning against the front of the bus.
While I was at work the inner of the two tires exploded with enough force it threw the outer tire 25 feet away.
One of the guys who lived on the property said the explosion was loud enough it scared him half to death, he looked around, but was unable to determine the cause, apparently someone in the area called the police, when I arrived at the shop they drove up and asked me if I had heard an explosion.
It wasn’t until later when I found the one tire 25 feet away and the other one shredded that I figured out what happened, a lot of stored energy just waiting to be released.
It was a 7 year old Firestone tire that looked in pretty good shape.
Peter
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@David Perservearence is paying off. We"d have done the same thing if it were a favorite toad. Don't ya just love it when a plan comes together. This perfectly okay looking tire explosion stuff is scary. Never happened to us & hope it never does.
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Next time you carry a coach tire in the car, lower air down to 10 to 20 psi. Wow! Imagine if driving when it happened. Ruptured ear drums, very least.
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I don't how David even got the 24in tire in his car,the tire and wheel probably weighs more than he does
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Went out and dropped the pressure in my spare to 60 psi yesterday, had to remove the valve core to do it. There is a heck of a lot of energy stored in that tire.
Jim
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We're assuming the oem spare tire compartment on our 4104 suffices for a safe place to have a fully inflated tire stored. At full pressure it adds security & safety for the driver in a front end crash.
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We're assuming the oem spare tire compartment on our 4104 suffices for a safe place to have a fully inflated tire stored. At full pressure it adds security & safety for the driver in a front end crash.
I think that a old wife's tale started by Bus Nuts even with a spare there is not much safety in the front of a GM or any other buses hitting a Toyota will total one, that was always my most fear owning a bus,drivers seldom survive a head on in a bus
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Went out and dropped the pressure in my spare to 60 psi yesterday, had to remove the valve core to do it. There is a heck of a lot of energy stored in that tire.
Jim
Jim my bus had a flex hose from the tire to the lower compartment under the windows with a valve core to check the pressure on the spare ,I don't know that was a MCI option or owners idea but I see all the newer buses have it some have a gauge
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I don't how David even got the 24in tire in his car,the tire and wheel probably weighs more than he does
I had a helper. It was tight in there for sure
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David I am sure glad no one got hurt and you were able to get your SUV repaired. There was a time I thought Toyo's were good tires and have ran them on semi's a lot. Had the same issue as you had with yours on a couple grain trailers. Tires were only four and five years old and not caps. We only haul our own grain so not a lot of miles. Both blow out like yours one going down the road loaded and took the other one be side it out also and did five grand damage to the trailer. Other blow out setting in the field being loaded with a grain cart. Scared the guy in the tractor running the cart.
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Has one checked to see if Toyo has a recall on that tire ,I know they recalled a lot of Tires made in Sebria I got a free set for the car,I ran Toyo for years on my bus and RV but only the ones made in Japan and never a problem
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My Toyo s are 2013 are made in China. They ride nice and have no cracking. Never a problem with them. Drives are at 85 and the fronts are at 90. :^
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Does anyone think I could make a claim against Toyo? I still have all the damaged goods, the tire, and all my bills.
They would most likely say, "go pound sand".
It would be much different if I had been driving and it killed me and perhaps someone else on the hiway.
David
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Does anyone think I could make a claim against Toyo? I still have all the damaged goods, the tire, and all my bills.
They would most likely say, "go pound sand".
It would be much different if I had been driving and it killed me and perhaps someone else on the hiway.
David
You never know Toyo is easy to work with that tire should have a 5-1/2 year warranty I never had a Toyo on my Eagle or the Country Coach that didn't have the 5-1/2 year warranty lol you may have trouble trying to explain WTH the tire was in the SUV for
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Another factor might be how hot the tire got being in the car with the sun shining through the windows. If it was closed up, it might have gotten hot enough to affect the tire pressure. :o
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Another factor might be how hot the tire got being in the car with the sun shining through the windows. If it was closed up, it might have gotten hot enough to affect the tire pressure. :o
I shared this explosion story with multiple friends of mine and they all thought the same thing.
But I wonder what the temp difference is between the hot car and the friction of the road.
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It was 75 outside at 1:15 pm. Yes it was hotter in the car. The tire split open on the face down side where the bubbles were on the sidewall. This launched it up to hit the roof raising it with a noticeable bump in the roof top. I have carried aired up wheels in the back of my truck camper to tire shops in the past with no issues. Not sure what I would have done differently except next time, deflate it.
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It was 75 outside at 1:15 pm. Yes it was hotter in the car. The tire split open on the face down side where the bubbles were on the sidewall. This launched it up to hit the roof raising it with a noticeable bump in the roof top. I have carried aired up wheels in the back of my truck camper to tire shops in the past with no issues. Not sure what I would have done differently except next time, deflate it.
Commerical tire companies have always told me a tire will increase 1 psi per a 10 degree increase in temperatures ,I have never saw that much on my monitoring system, using their calculations a 100 degree swing would be 10 psi,a damaged tire could be 1psi would do it
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If it's 1 psi per 10 degrees, and it was not all that hot by Western standards, then what is left is a tire sidewall failure, and the fact that David was very lucky not to have been in the vehicle. :o