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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 06:42:48 AM

Title: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 06:42:48 AM
Well, we made it home (back to Oregon) but without the bus  :(

We had to leave her in El Paso, Tx at a storage unit because we just couldn't wait any longer to get home and still don't know if we can afford to fix her.  I have really been beating myself up over buying her and not being prepared for incidentals (in this case some major incidentals).  She kept overheating more and more frequently and we finally had her towed to Freightliner in El Paso (Exit 37) and they said, of course, that she needs a major inline rebuild to the tune of $25K-$30K.  I told them she had just been rebuilt around 24K miles ago, but of course they said she is bad.  So, after all that drama and disappointment, I made the decision to leave her and drive back to Oregon.  We had already been gone 10 days longer than we had planned and had to get home (had the wife and 7 of the children with us).  Now the dilemma.  What to do with her? 

Here is what I know for sure is wrong with her (as we experienced on our short 500 mile trip from Dallas area to El Paso via San Angelo):

Original cooling fan and shroud removed and replaced with a wholly inadequate 4-bank electric cooling fan from a 1991 Nissan Estanza (don't even get me started on this retarded replacement).  Engine runs fine around town but overheats once you start running over about 30MPH.

Front leveling valve for the air suspension system seems to be malfunctioning because the bus won't auto level in the front so you have to manually adjust the level and hold it there to drive (not a huge deal because #1 neophyte named me did it).

When she is in high idle, air leaks and eventually gets below 60PSI.

I didn't have any other issues to speak of with her but these were enough to leave us high and dry due to lack of funds to fix her on the road, amount of time it would have taken (thank you Dallas for your beyond generous offer to come down to El Paso and get us going) and not having a place to work on her (RV parks seem to frown on you working on your rig in their parks).

So, now I come to this forum to seek advice from the sages.  It seems to me that my only option is to sell her where she is and hope to not take a huge loss.  I don't have the funds to go back out to El Paso (nor the desire if the truth be known.....sorry if you are from El Paso, but we hated it there).

Advice and/or suggestions will be kindly received.

I want to offer a special thanks to Dallas, RJ, Arthur, John and everyone else who called me and offered advice, suggestions and just general encouragement.  I can honestly say that I have never been treated better by any group.  You all are gentlemen and scholars.

Doug Ferguson

Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Len Silva on February 02, 2009, 06:56:38 AM
I am not one to run to a lawyer with every problem but here is a case that I would consider trying to get some relief from the seller.  As is, as seen, means nothing if the bus was substantially misrepresented as recently overhauled and ready for the road.

Good luck to you, really hate to see something like this happen.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: VanTare on February 02, 2009, 07:01:09 AM
doug you have your bus in the wrong shop Stewart and Stevenson next door will give a better labor rate ,better service ,better parts price and will be more honeset with you the Freightliner dealer there is a rip off. a plus is Stewart and Stevenson works on buses and the people from Freightliner buys the parts from S&S next door fwiw Freightliner there wanted to charge me 137.00 a hour because I was a RV same work next door was 95.00 per hr doesn't make any difference to them RV,bus or truck all the same   

David
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: WEC4104 on February 02, 2009, 07:27:45 AM
Since you solicited advice, here is what I would personally suggest...

Sit down, take a deep breath, try not to dwell on the should-a/would-a/could-as of the past few weeks. Focus on forward looking stuff, and ask yourself the big question:  "Now that I have seen this bus and gotten a feel for it, if I can solve the identified mechanical issues, is it right for me and my family?"  Before you even start counting up dollar sign$, you need to assess if this coach fits your needs and eventual dream.

If the answer is "yes" or "probably", you have different decisions to make than if the answer is "no" or "What the heck was I thinking?".

Assuming for the moment that you have been really bitten by the busnut bug, and the coach seems right for you (discounting the known mechanical issues) it is time to total up the true estimated costs.

From the info you provided, it sounds like the engine runs fine but overheats.  We know that the cooling system was messed with and no longer does the job.  What I am not hearing is a strong case that says the engine needs a rebuild.  I think I would be inclined to fix the cooling issue and see if that alone makes her roadworthy.  Get her home and the air leaks and the engine rebuild could be addressed on your own schedule.    

By the way, you mentioned that you were quoted "a major inline rebuild to the tune of $25-30K".  I am guessing what is meant was really a major in-frame rebuild.  Assuming the 4106 has ths stock 8V-71, the estimate seems pretty close to double what it should be, unless that also includes returning the cooling system to stock and tacking the air leak issues.



Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Sammy on February 02, 2009, 07:53:31 AM
Doug, sorry to here your unfortunate story.
It can and probably has happened to alot of us with any type of vehicle, equipment,etc.
Okay, so now what to do?
Here's some suggestions that may help you move on.......
1. Sell it, as you have made that a possible choice already.If you choose this path can you recover your money? Can you recover enough of your money to be satisfied and walk away?
2.Have it properly diagnosed by a bus mechanic,getting a rough dollar estimate to possibly tackle repairs slowly and surely to get it home safely? Continue repairs as time and $$ permits - at home?
3.Find a bus garage or mechanic to do full safety inspection to that vehicle, so you'll know what you're really up against - brakes, steering,suspension,tires,etc.
I highlight BUS mechanic because they are unique vehicles.Not all truck mechanics are familiar with buses and not all bus mechanics are familiar with trucks.

If it was mine and I was in this same scenario I would have cooling system checked and air system checked by a pro (bus tech), get a safety inspection and then make my decision.
Hope this may help you.  8)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 02, 2009, 08:21:29 AM
Jamie and Doug, (This is some of my post on the previous thread.)

Don't let this discourage you. If you are ever able to take it back to your house, then it would be a great project for Doug and your sons (I am guessing that you have sons ;)) to work on. Also, I don't know what your financial status is, but if Dallas was coming your way, he would be able to get you started and pointed in the right direction. Provided the funds were there, you all would be able to eventually get that bus up and running. The biggest thing mechanically, right now, would be whether the engine is sound. I would think that it could be damaged, especially if it overheated ever, and was low on oil.

Don't let this be the death of your dream. It would be best if you could "return" the bus, but I doubt whether that will happen. I also don't think that your bus is a "lemon". Just old and not maintained, and not serviced (still the seller should have told you all of that).

So how much did you all pay for it? And (just a curiosity question) how did you get bit by the bus bug (commonly know as a "bus nuts disease" which BTW is incurable ;D)?

I still extend my sympathy. Don't let this discourage you. This is just a bit of testing.

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Madmike on February 02, 2009, 08:43:59 AM
If the bus runs fine below 30mph then the engine should be good to go. Fix the radiator problem, fix the air leak and change the oil. Did it smoke? You could get more for the bus by investing the money to get the overheating problem fixed. If you are out of funds sell her on Craigslist.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: bobofthenorth on February 02, 2009, 09:56:57 AM
Here's an out of the box thought - if the bus will run up to 30 MPH then why not drive it home?  I know - its a long boring trip but if funds are lacking and decisions are being driven by location then driving it home should be considered.  The problems will seem a lot smaller once the bus is in the yard.  Take your time - make it an adventure - keep the speed to whatever it takes to keep the temperature down.  Compile a list of busnuts along the route and maybe even do the trip in several legs.  It looks to me like 50 hours at an average 30 MPH - you won't average 30 MPH but even at 20 MPH its still only 75 hours.  75 boring hours maybe but still only 75 hours.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Dallas on February 02, 2009, 10:02:05 AM
After talking with Doug a few days ago, while they were still in El Paso, I recommended they get the bus away from the Freightliner dealer as quickly as possible. I've had dealings with that place where they wanted to charge one of my drivers over $1100 for a rebuilt 135A Leece-Neville alternator including installation. The installation was remove 3 bolts, remove belt,remove alternator, remove pulley, install pulley on new alternator, install alternator, install belt, install bolts... an hour worth of labor on my IH9670.

I also figured they were going to try to sell him an engine, which as far as I can tell, it shouldn't be needing. At most it sounds like it may need a head gasket kit and a real engine driven fan, not those funky little electrics.

Doug and family are going through some difficult times right now, although I'm not at liberty to say what exactly.

SO here's my plan if he happens to go for it, and since it's worth about scrap price as it sits, where it sits, it may be a good plan.

First, I'm looking around for a free or cheap used 8V71 that runs in the El Paso, Albuquerque, Midland, Yuma area. (If anybody knows where one is, let Doug or me know, preferably Doug.
Second, As has been said, it may not need an engine, but instead a head gasket kit, of which I have one. I would need another one to do both heads.
It will also need to have the fan replaced on the torus and the Rube Goldberg stuff removed, and possibly a shroud built for it.

Now for my part.....

I don't have a lot of money and can't afford to finance the whole trip from where we are to El Paso... 700 miles one way, plus camping and food.
But, I will donate what parts I have, and all my labor, along with some extra oil and filter and coolant I have handy.

If anyone wants to chip in, maybe we can all work together and Get Doug and Family back up and running again.

Oh, one other thing that is needed.... a volunteer to administer the funds if and when they come in.... Who's it gonna be? Not me! That's for sure, I'm not good with money.

So there you have it, I'll help as I can, maybe someone else can help too.

Dallas
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 10:55:13 AM
doug you have your bus in the wrong shop Stewart and Stevenson next door will give a better labor rate
David

David,  that was the Stewart and Stevenson shop that gave me that quote.  They seemed fairly competent, but needless to say, way out of my price range.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 02, 2009, 10:58:10 AM
Dallas,

That is quite the offer! Good for you! I knew that you would be able to get it up and running, provided that you could get there.

I still would like to know how much they paid for it.

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 11:03:39 AM
Jamie and Doug, (This is some of my post on the previous thread.)

Don't let this discourage you. If you are ever able to take it back to your house, then it would be a great project for Doug and your sons (I am guessing that you have sons ;)) to work on. Also, I don't know what your financial status is, but if Dallas was coming your way, he would be able to get you started and pointed in the right direction. Provided the funds were there, you all would be able to eventually get that bus up and running. The biggest thing mechanically, right now, would be whether the engine is sound. I would think that it could be damaged, especially if it overheated ever, and was low on oil.

Don't let this be the death of your dream. It would be best if you could "return" the bus, but I doubt whether that will happen. I also don't think that your bus is a "lemon". Just old and not maintained, and not serviced (still the seller should have told you all of that).

So how much did you all pay for it? And (just a curiosity question) how did you get bit by the bus bug (commonly know as a "bus nuts disease" which BTW is incurable ;D)?

I still extend my sympathy. Don't let this discourage you. This is just a bit of testing.

God bless,

John

John,

  We paid $7500 for her and had just filled the fuel(140 gal) and propane(100 gals) when she left us high and dry in El Paso.  I do have the bus disease as I can't get having her and traveling the highways and byways with her off my mind.  As far as how to get her back to Oregon, not probably a reality due to cost.  I suppose our best option is to sell her and hope to recoup some portion of our expenditure.  We strongly feel like we were unintentionally deceived by the sellers but short of a miracle, I am pretty sure there is no way they will just take her back and give us our money back.

I don't really know how I got the bug John.  I am pretty sure I have it though as I have all of the symptoms.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 02, 2009, 11:05:40 AM
I wonder if the seller needs to talk to some of us :o :o :o.

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: VanTare on February 02, 2009, 11:17:12 AM
Doug that doesn't sound like quote Edmond would give for a inframe did he check the bus for you a fiend of mine blew his 8v92 and the repair bill on his with 2 new heads was around 13 grand.If you have a left hand engine I see a lot of transit buses setting in El Paso maybe a used engine would be the to go   

David
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: JackConrad on February 02, 2009, 11:19:37 AM
just curious, was the seller an individual or a dealer?  Jack
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 02, 2009, 11:25:10 AM
wow, $7.5 K, that really sucks.  Having never seen the bus it's hard to say what it's worth, seems some 4106 are thought to be worth way more than that, others much less (Note I said "thought", it's all perspective).  Before I bought my bus I went around and even travelled a bit to look at buses I knew I probably wouldn't get, this was just to get a feel for them, and how good or bad the condition could be.  This advice is not too late for you even now.  If there are a few buses in your area even if they aren't 4106s it will help give you an idea of what you have down in El Paso (BTW I've been to El Paso a couple of  times and it's true it doesn't leave the best 1st or 2nd impression).  
          Sorry to hear you have the bug, I have it as well, and it's an expensive disease that I can't really afford right now. After putting $7.5 plus fuel in there it's going to be hard to walk away as if you nurse it home it will gain in value. OTOH I discovered that the extra costs of going out twice to pick up my bus would have bought a better bus closer to home (without the fun though).  I know after a failed pick up it doesn't feel fun, but if you do ever get that rig home it'll feel good.  
I am going to restate what I said in an earlier thread....I suggest you read the entire archives here and at BNO, fairly amusing reading and lots to learn.  Some of my favorite threads were the Dutch threads, man he had some drama.
     Well I'm sure there will be other well wishers out there, good luck, Patrick.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 11:28:46 AM
After talking with Doug a few days ago, while they were still in El Paso, I recommended they get the bus away from the Freightliner dealer as quickly as possible. I've had dealings with that place where they wanted to charge one of my drivers over $1100 for a rebuilt 135A Leece-Neville alternator including installation. The installation was remove 3 bolts, remove belt,remove alternator, remove pulley, install pulley on new alternator, install alternator, install belt, install bolts... an hour worth of labor on my IH9670.

I also figured they were going to try to sell him an engine, which as far as I can tell, it shouldn't be needing. At most it sounds like it may need a head gasket kit and a real engine driven fan, not those funky little electrics.

Doug and family are going through some difficult times right now, although I'm not at liberty to say what exactly.

SO here's my plan if he happens to go for it, and since it's worth about scrap price as it sits, where it sits, it may be a good plan.

First, I'm looking around for a free or cheap used 8V71 that runs in the El Paso, Albuquerque, Midland, Yuma area. (If anybody knows where one is, let Doug or me know, preferably Doug.
Second, As has been said, it may not need an engine, but instead a head gasket kit, of which I have one. I would need another one to do both heads.
It will also need to have the fan replaced on the torus and the Rube Goldberg stuff removed, and possibly a shroud built for it.

Now for my part.....

I don't have a lot of money and can't afford to finance the whole trip from where we are to El Paso... 700 miles one way, plus camping and food.
But, I will donate what parts I have, and all my labor, along with some extra oil and filter and coolant I have handy.

If anyone wants to chip in, maybe we can all work together and Get Doug and Family back up and running again.

Oh, one other thing that is needed.... a volunteer to administer the funds if and when they come in.... Who's it gonna be? Not me! That's for sure, I'm not good with money.

So there you have it, I'll help as I can, maybe someone else can help too.

Dallas

Dallas,

  What an incredibly kind and generous offer.  I can't allow you guys (and gals?) to do this for us though.  There could be many other things wrong with her that I don't know about and this could turn into a money pit for anyone close enough to her to get sucked in.  Did I want to own a bus and travel and live in her?  Absolutely.  Did her leaving me in El Paso put is in one hell of a pickle?  Without a doubt.  But I can't allow good folks to donate their time and/or money or parts to us when we don't know if other things could be wrong with her, and this could happen to us again somewhere else and we find ourselves in another pickle later down the road.  I would love to have had someone look her over for us though so we could have known beyond a shadow of a doubt what needs fixing on her (engine wise). 

So, although I am touched beyond what I can describe in words with your offer, I just can't allow this to happen.  This event, like many others in our lives, will serve as a teaching tool and *hopefully* we will learn whatever lesson God wants us to learn from this unfortunate series of events.

If anyone is passing through El Paso and wants to look her over for us, that would be very appreciated.  Beyond that, I think our best option is to sell her and try to get something back.  There was positive that happened out of this whole trip (we met incredibly kind people both on this board and around the towns we passed through) and now that I am removed from the drama, I am starting to count my blessings and see that all is not lost.  The money we spent was all we had saved (minus a trip back cushion), and that is hard to recover from, but in the end, it's just money and I will make more eventually.  So, for now, we are concentrating on where we want to move to and wrapping our minds around more pressing issues at hand (since it looks like living on the bus for a year and traveling while I work are not in the cards).

Thank you again for all of your generosity and I hope to continue to learn and glean from the bus nuts here.

God Bless you all,

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 11:30:08 AM
just curious, was the seller an individual or a dealer?  Jack

It was an individual in Princeton,TX.  A gospel singer of all things.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 11:34:55 AM
Doug that doesn't sound like quote Edmond would give for a inframe did he check the bus for you a fiend of mine blew his 8v92 and the repair bill on his with 2 new heads was around 13 grand.If you have a left hand engine I see a lot of transit buses setting in El Paso maybe a used engine would be the to go   

David

Yes, it was Edmond.  I think the quote was for other stuff (rebuilding the blower is something I vaguely remember him mentioning) as well, but not anything off the engine (brakes, air suspension, etc.).
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: johns4104 on February 02, 2009, 12:23:36 PM
As it is now the bus is only worth scrap price.
So you might as well have it checked out by a knowlegable  busnut or bus mechanic just to see what you have.
IF you want to show the kids the county the bus is probably the most economical way to do it.

Good luck
John, building a bus with four young boys
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Dallas on February 02, 2009, 12:35:52 PM
I typed this under my other persona, but will try to copy and paste it here:

Doug,

Of COURSE other stuff is gonna break when you don't want it to.... It's the nature of the beast.

What you have is a 40+ year old used car that was taken out of revenue service because it was costing too much money to maintain. Then someone else bought it and did this and that to it and obviously didn't do it well, or with any knowledge of the skills needed.
It's also probably not had much in the way of maintenance since it was in revenue service... Many Churches and Gospel Groups depend entirely on the Big Mechanic in the Sky to take care of them.
(I'm sorry to say it, but after working at a few car and truck lots that displayed the Christian FISH insignia [IXOYE], I run anytime I see that displayed on a used car that I consider buying).

(http://www.ixoye.net/IXOYEsewonlogo.JPG)

This bus is going to cost you a LOT of Money. It's going to cost you a LOT of heartache. It's going to cost you a LOT of pain.

But it will pay back every bit by giving you and the family a new outlook on the world, You will learn skills that you never thought you could learn and you will be amongst some of the BPOE.. (Not the Elks...) THE BEST PEOPLE ON EARTH!

The offer is still open, think long and hard before you turn it down. We are all here and have all been in the same boat at one time or another in our lives. The problem is, we are an independent bunch, and don't fit in with the rest of the world.
You might say we kind of roll to the beat of a different brake drum.

What ever your decision, don't give up the dream, you may not think so, but you are now in a very good position as far as the worst that can happen to a newby. It's happened, now we deal with it, fix it and go on our merry way.

Dallas Farnworth
Moderator,
Bus Conversions Magazine and Forum
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 02, 2009, 12:44:13 PM
Yeah, he is pre-disastered. :-\
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Lin on February 02, 2009, 12:58:09 PM
Among the other things mentioned like getting it checked out by a competent, honest bus mechanic so you can know the total situation before you finalize your plan, I would say that you should definitely contact the seller and tell him what has happened and what you have learned about the bus.  I would not accuse him of deception, but just make it clear that the bus, and therefore its value, was not as you were led to believe.  I do not see where they will be willing to take it back, but if they are honest and honorable, they should be able come to some agreement of what the real value was and refund the difference.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Don Fairchild on February 02, 2009, 02:21:33 PM
Doug,

Before you sell the coach call luke at U.S.Coach and see what he wants for all the parts to return it back to original.

If you need an engine I can rebuild one for a lot less than you were quoted but from the sound of it you don't need one. You can pull the radiator and fix the problems so you can drive it homr.

Don in Bakersfield, ca
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: busshawg on February 02, 2009, 02:28:35 PM
What an offer Dallas, hats off to you! and I'll second what Lin said. Possibly just a simple communication thing might help with the seller?? Worth a try.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 02:40:23 PM
I typed this under my other persona, but will try to copy and paste it here:

Doug,

Of COURSE other stuff is gonna break when you don't want it to.... It's the nature of the beast.

What you have is a 40+ year old used car that was taken out of revenue service because it was costing too much money to maintain. Then someone else bought it and did this and that to it and obviously didn't do it well, or with any knowledge of the skills needed.
It's also probably not had much in the way of maintenance since it was in revenue service... Many Churches and Gospel Groups depend entirely on the Big Mechanic in the Sky to take care of them.
(I'm sorry to say it, but after working at a few car and truck lots that displayed the Christian FISH insignia [IXOYE], I run anytime I see that displayed on a used car that I consider buying).

(http://www.ixoye.net/IXOYEsewonlogo.JPG)

This bus is going to cost you a LOT of Money. It's going to cost you a LOT of heartache. It's going to cost you a LOT of pain.

But it will pay back every bit by giving you and the family a new outlook on the world, You will learn skills that you never thought you could learn and you will be amongst some of the BPOE.. (Not the Elks...) THE BEST PEOPLE ON EARTH!

The offer is still open, think long and hard before you turn it down. We are all here and have all been in the same boat at one time or another in our lives. The problem is, we are an independent bunch, and don't fit in with the rest of the world.
You might say we kind of roll to the beat of a different brake drum.

What ever your decision, don't give up the dream, you may not think so, but you are now in a very good position as far as the worst that can happen to a newby. It's happened, now we deal with it, fix it and go on our merry way.

Dallas Farnworth
Moderator,
Bus Conversions Magazine and Forum

Dallas,

  You are right and maybe I am being rash about turning the offer down.  I DO want to own this bus and use her like we had originally intended.  My wife is talking in my ear and making a lot of sense.  She knows that I really wanted this and maybe I leaped before I looked but the leaping is done and now what I need to do is make the best of the situation.  I guess where I need to start is to have someone who actually knows buses take a look at her and let me know what the deal is.  Once I know what it will take to fix her, I can make an informed decision about if I can afford to fix her.  Does that sound fair?  We are moving due to me losing my job, that is a given fact that won't change.  It would be nice to be able to use this old bus to live in while I work in different cities until we can decide where to settle.  I am going to contact the seller and let them know what happened and see if they feel any sympathy for our plight (to the tune of dollars not pity).  If they do feel bad annd want to offer some of a refund, maybe there will be some cash to help get her right again.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 02:41:41 PM
What an offer Dallas, hats off to you! and I'll second what Lin said. Possibly just a simple communication thing might help with the seller?? Worth a try.

Definitely worth some effort.  I'll let you all know what transpires.

Thanks for your input.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 02, 2009, 02:47:29 PM
Right on guys.

Doug, check it out thoroughly before you decide to sell. How much is storage right now? Anybody on this board live nearby that has space?

Really, you might be able to get it going for less than you think. Just don't make hasty decisions...And whatever you do, leave Dallas's offer open. DON'T turn him down, right now. Maybe you will be able to afford his trip out there...

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: busshawg on February 02, 2009, 02:50:51 PM
Is it costing you anything to keep the bus where it is? If not , or even if it is affordable, take a step back let it all settle for a few weeks. It will probably take a few weeks of running around and getting all worked up with either way you make your desion. If your anything like me your emotions probably have been on quite a trip themselves. Sometimes time has a way. Just food for thought. During this time other opportunities might come up , whether it's a good deal on parts or a good dollar for the bus.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: busshawg on February 02, 2009, 02:52:22 PM
well I guess we are on the same page John, LOL, posted at the same time.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 02, 2009, 02:53:57 PM
busshawg,

I guess great minds think alike ;D :D :D ;D.

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: cody on February 02, 2009, 03:06:35 PM
Ok now that settled, tell me what I can do to help. we got a busnut in trouble, lets get him out of trouble, tell me how I can do my part.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 03:08:26 PM
Is it costing you anything to keep the bus where it is? If not , or even if it is affordable, take a step back let it all settle for a few weeks. It will probably take a few weeks of running around and getting all worked up with either way you make your desion. If your anything like me your emotions probably have been on quite a trip themselves. Sometimes time has a way. Just food for thought. During this time other opportunities might come up , whether it's a good deal on parts or a good dollar for the bus.

It is costing me $55.00 a month, so not a deal breaker.  I am going to take a step back and leave her in storage until someone a lot more knowledgable than me can tell me what is wrong with her.  My emotions have been all over the board.  A lot more going on that I haven't discussed on the board but some of the fellas here know what I am talking about.  

Good advice.

Thanks

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 03:11:57 PM
Ok now that settled, tell me what I can do to help. we got a busnut in trouble, lets get him out of trouble, tell me how I can do my part.

Cody,

  My wife has friends in the UP!  She perked right up when I read your signature.  She has been telling me for a year we need to look into moving to the UP.  Thank you for your input.  I can't believe the camaraderie.  What part of the UP are you from?

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 03:12:58 PM
busshawg,

I guess great minds think alike ;D :D :D ;D.

God bless,

John

Can I get an Amen?
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 03:15:59 PM
For those who want to see the coach, here is the website we found her on:

http://www.giginrandy.com/apps/photos/ (http://www.giginrandy.com/apps/photos/)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: cody on February 02, 2009, 03:16:17 PM
We're parked at my daughters house in Baraga, it's right at the base of the Keweenaw Penninsula , thats the big arm that juts out into Lake Superior.  No work to speak of around here but being basically lazy it doesn't matter to me lol, it's a great place tho.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: cody on February 02, 2009, 03:19:39 PM
Doug, thats a nice looking bus, did you notice in the pictures that when you look at the pictures and look out the windows you can see the memories that are waiting to be made?
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 03:24:47 PM
Doug, thats a nice looking bus, did you notice in the pictures that when you look at the pictures and look out the windows you can see the memories that are waiting to be made?

I can, and that is why the dream isn't dead yet.  Call me nostalgic I suppose.  For those of you who asked what website she was listed on, this is the original place we saw her:

http://busguy.net/gallery/index.php?cat=11 (http://busguy.net/gallery/index.php?cat=11)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Van on February 02, 2009, 04:22:30 PM
Doug ,this comes from a guy that has just gone down this same road (just ask most if the folks here.I didn't take it as well as you ,yet thru it all ,a lot of folks have given good advice and unfortunately I might not have taken it so willingly because of the despair I was feeling at the time.so please take the time to reflect on what has transpired ,weigh the good against the bad .

Maybe a short story most here have heard will shed some insight as to what to do.(I might goof this up a bit ,but here goes)there once was a man on a boat caught in a storm whose boat sank .Praying to the lord to save him(sound familiar yet,I'll continue),a ship passing by offered assistance ,the man refused stating that God was going to save him.still praying, a submarine happened by and offered to help and again he refused waiting on you know who to help him and again it happened ,and so on and so forth.Eventually the man drowned,while talking with the lord after his arrival up yonder paradise he asked God why didn't you save me! And God replyed I have sent a ship,a sub and a helicopter !.you get the idea by now .

  I know that you and yours have been in some kind of Prayer during the ordeal in Texas and that you must have asked for some kind of help of him ,well! ;D sounds to me your help has arrived (nothing could be worse than blocking a blessing)your turn ;).God bless .Van


P.S.your bus looks sweet,
and Satan is still a Punk!
Don't let him rob your joy! :)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 04:35:30 PM
Van,

  You are, of course, right on the money.  Like I said earlier to Dallas.  I was being rash and a quitter (which is not the first time I have been either).  I have taken a step back and am going to mill everything around in the old upstairs mental churn.  I emailed the seller and explained the situation.  I am hoping they will feel my pain enough to help make it right (financially).  Your "parable" (sounds like one to me) is spot on and the last thing I want to do is close the door on an opportunity from God.  And yes, we did ask for a lot from The Almighty during this ordeal, and he got us home (just like we asked).  Thanks for the words of wisdom.  I am kind of stiff necked sometimes and God usually shows me the error in those ways post haste.   ;D

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: rv_safetyman on February 02, 2009, 04:44:08 PM
Doug, you are getting some great advice and offers here. 

There is so much going on on the boards right now with personal tragedy and hardship and in every case, bus folks have responded with an out pouring of help, prayers, and even money. 

We would all hate to see you give up your dreams.  It sounds like you have support from your wife and that is really important. 

I think you should post what type of work you are looking for and maybe we can help in that area as well. 

Good luck!!!!

Jim
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: gmbusguy1 on February 02, 2009, 04:57:58 PM
I have a good used Torus fan drive that I will donate to Doug. I will go thru it and check the bearings and replace the seal and gaskets. if someone else has a freight account we can use to ship it to Texas that would be a great help right now.

Doug keep in mind that when you do a repair on a Real Bus it is fixed pretty much for the rest of your life

Hope this helps

Chris
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 05:05:08 PM
Doug, you are getting some great advice and offers here. 

There is so much going on on the boards right now with personal tragedy and hardship and in every case, bus folks have responded with an out pouring of help, prayers, and even money. 

We would all hate to see you give up your dreams.  It sounds like you have support from your wife and that is really important. 

I think you should post what type of work you are looking for and maybe we can help in that area as well. 

Good luck!!!!

Jim

Jim,

  Yep, my wife is onboard with this crazy dream (she even contributed to it at times) so that is a good thing.  I am not willing to give this up and after all of the confirmation that God has given me today with fellow bus nuts emailing, pm'ing and calling me, I am pretty sure that God doesn't want me to either.  This has all happened for a reason, and maybe that will be revealed or maybe not.  Either way, all of this support and offer for help is extremely humbling, but I suppose that is exactly what I needed to happen to me at this junction in my life.

As for the work I do, I am a Senior Systems Consultant (Windows server engineer).  If you know what that title means, good for you.  If you don't, don't feel bad.  I just tell most folks I am a computer consultant and they nod and say "ah, computers".
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: cody on February 02, 2009, 05:18:28 PM
Ah, computers lol.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 05:18:49 PM
I have a good used Torus fan drive that I will donate to Doug. I will go thru it and check the bearings and replace the seal and gaskets. if someone else has a freight account we can use to ship it to Texas that would be a great help right now.

Doug keep in mind that when you do a repair on a Real Bus it is fixed pretty much for the rest of your life

Hope this helps

Chris

Chris,

  What an incredibly generous offer.  Thank you very much.  
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: rv_safetyman on February 02, 2009, 05:24:09 PM
Chris, if the fan offer is accepted, let me know what the weight is and what the shipping address is, and I will email you a UPS label billed to our account.  You can apply it to the box and drop if off at any UPS store, Office Depot, Staples, etc.  The label will have our business address, but that is not an issue.  We ship product from where ever we are and UPS says that is fine.

I don't have the ability to contribute money, but I will gladly make the shipping offer for anyone that can help with the parts.

My email address is in my  profile and on our website (see signature).

Doug, I am glad that you let us know about your profession.  I would think that your profession would allow you to be quite "portable".  Maybe our bus "network" can help you out (I am a firm believer in networking when you need help/job).

Jim
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: gmbusguy1 on February 02, 2009, 05:43:53 PM
OK Jim and Thanks for the help. I will wait and see what Doug wants to do. But I have a funny feeling Doug and his family are now part of our Busnut extended Family

and there is nothing they can do about that LOLOLOL

WELCOME ABOARD FOLKS

Chris and Cherie
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: wvanative on February 02, 2009, 05:48:51 PM
Doug, that is one nice looking bus. You can just look at it and tell its been taken care of, and not abused. The conversion was a nice looking one on the inside also. Don't just let this bus go for scrap if you can help it. You can pick up 8V71's take outs for next to nothing now days, and every one on here is going to be looking for one for you. Just get a busnut out there and let them look it over from one end to the other so you will know what you have, and what you will need to do, then make a good decision from there. It really is a beauty of a bus. And let God use your new busnut friends to help you through this trying time. Just remember when you start to make a pot with clay it's hard, and cold to the touch, but as you work with it it starts to heat up and soften as you work it so it can be molded into something beautiful, that is what God is doing with you right now, and when this is all over I bet you, and your family will be wiser, and very happy with what God has worked in your life. Not to mention you guys may have the bus of your dreams also. DON'T GIVE UP JUST KEEP DREAMING

Dean
WVaNative
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: OneLapper on February 02, 2009, 06:36:47 PM
Doug,

I sent you a personal email last week.  I also offered a fluid fan drive, but may be able to help with other parts.  You can find my email in my profile.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Van on February 02, 2009, 07:18:22 PM
After looking over the web site for GIGI & Randy (PO) I have to believe that they too would show concern and an interest in Doug and Jamie's situation ,and would also feel compelled to join in with all the fellow bus nuts here to help this family dream become a reality.I myself am praying that God will touch GIGI and Randy's heart ,that once they become aware of what has transpired they would make things right ,and help out in getting the bus back on the road.Van 

http://www.giginrandy.com/apps/photos/
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Jriddle on February 02, 2009, 07:21:09 PM
I think you are on the right track to get this bus looked at by someone that has YOUR intrest in mind. I have owned my bus one year and only drove 400 miles. So take this with a grain of salt. Your problem could be as simple as a thermostat to a head gasket or plugged radiators. Keep your chin up and let these people help you! I am sure if this bus is a lemon a bus nut will tell the truth.

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 07:59:04 PM
OK Jim and Thanks for the help. I will wait and see what Doug wants to do. But I have a funny feeling Doug and his family are now part of our Busnut extended Family

and there is nothing they can do about that LOLOLOL

WELCOME ABOARD FOLKS

Chris and Cherie

Yes, if you all are willing to have us, we would be honored to be part of this remarkable community.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 08:02:38 PM
Chris, if the fan offer is accepted, let me know what the weight is and what the shipping address is, and I will email you a UPS label billed to our account.  You can apply it to the box and drop if off at any UPS store, Office Depot, Staples, etc.  The label will have our business address, but that is not an issue.  We ship product from where ever we are and UPS says that is fine.

I don't have the ability to contribute money, but I will gladly make the shipping offer for anyone that can help with the parts.

My email address is in my  profile and on our website (see signature).

Doug, I am glad that you let us know about your profession.  I would think that your profession would allow you to be quite "portable".  Maybe our bus "network" can help you out (I am a firm believer in networking when you need help/job).

Jim

Jim,

  Thank you again for your shipping offer.  That is very generous and will definitely help.  As for the portability of my profession, that is exactly what we thought and why we wanted to hit the road and work from the bus while we travel and figure out where we wanted to finally settle again.  Networking is good, but I have never been good at it.  Maybe this community can help me with that as well.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: travlinman on February 02, 2009, 08:05:19 PM
Doug,

I have been looking to purchase a bus conversion for quite a while, and I think that yours is a keeper. The sheer amount of time and effort that goes into converting one of these old girls is really amazing. The 4106 is a great bus, and the interior and exterior on yours look really good. Sound like it need a bit of help under the hood, but that is something that is possible. Do not give up the ship yet, there is an amazing amount of knowledge and helpful folks on this board. Take your time, plan your move and before you know it you will be on the road.

Best of Luck

Steve
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 08:10:32 PM
Doug,

I have been looking to purchase a bus conversion for quite a while, and I think that yours is a keeper. The sheer amount of time and effort that goes into converting one of these old girls is really amazing. The 4106 is a great bus, and the interior and exterior on yours look really good. Sound like it need a bit of help under the hood, but that is something that is possible. Do not give up the ship yet, there is an amazing amount of knowledge and helpful folks on this board. Take your time, plan your move and before you know it you will be on the road.

Best of Luck

Steve

Thanks Steve.  I fell in love with her as soon as I drove her.  I just have some hurdles to overcome.  The outpouring of support and offers of help have invigorated me and renewed my spirit.  I am confident that all will work out.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: OneLapper on February 02, 2009, 08:20:10 PM
Doug, I pm'd you.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Cary and Don on February 02, 2009, 08:37:40 PM
I think our 4107 may have been owned by the same Gospel group.  We bought her from a dealer in Princeton, TX and we found a bunch of fliers from a Gospel group under the icky filthy furniture. Lucky for us, the dealer delivered her and fixed a raft of stuff to do it. 

I think it might be the same person, because of the "red neck cruise control"  wrote on a yard stick in felt tip pen.  There was a "C" clamp welded to the dash over the throttle pedal and an arrow that pointed down.

Good Luck,

Don and Cary
GMC4107
Neoplan AN340
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 02, 2009, 08:39:21 PM
I think our 4107 may have been owned by the same Gospel group.  We bought her from a dealer in Princeton, TX and we found a bunch of fliers from a Gospel group under the icky filthy furniture. Lucky for us, the dealer delivered her and fixed a raft of stuff to do it. 

I think it might be the same person, because of the "red neck cruise control"  wrote on a yard stick in felt tip pen.  There was a "C" clamp welded to the dash over the throttle pedal and an arrow that pointed down.

Good Luck,

Don and Cary
GMC4107
Neoplan AN340

LOL.  Good times.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Van on February 02, 2009, 09:42:44 PM
Doug ,Jamie ,please do keep us posted as to the reply if any from the previous owners response,if that doesn't work I'm shure that an out pouring of folks here could go to their website to express a need for them to help in this (respectfully of course ),they could very well be on the road singing also(haven't checked their appearance dates yet).I will obviously wait for a reply from them first and go by what you feel should be recommended,whoa!  Van ;)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Barn Owl on February 02, 2009, 09:50:50 PM
NIMCO has take out 8V71s for $2750. I have purchased parts from them and I can personally vouch that they are a great to deal with.

Link: NIMCO (http://www.nimcobus.com/catalog/detroit_engines.shtml)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: RJ on February 03, 2009, 12:57:59 AM
All -

I talked to Doug for awhile tonite, and his spirits are rising!!  :D

While talking, we found five FMCA members in El Paso with buses - one MCI, four Prevost.  Doug was going to try and contact them to see if any might have room to park his coach while it gets repaired, because the storage lot won't allow that kind of activity (where have we all heard THAT before, eh?)

The kids, btw, thought it was a great adventure!!

Now, a couple of tidbits:

The bus doesn't overheat when puttering around town, only on the highway.

The first leg of their journey, while towing a trailer, was, for the most part, uneventful - no overheating.

When checking the oil, there appeared to be no water in it - it was typical DD two-stroke black.

That little bit of info suggests to me that the engine itself may be ok, it's just a cooling issue.

The saga continues!

 ;)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 03, 2009, 05:36:42 AM
RJ, I agree with you. Good thing that Doug's spirits are rising. Let us know what those fellers with coaches in El Paso say about a place to park and work on the bus at the same time.

Probably the problems aren't as huge as we/Doug thinks. The conversion looks nice. I think that there are just some mechanical issues, that can be fixed.

ALL- I recommended to Doug to getting a used RV trailer. He said that they have a F350 Superduty, so towing shouldn't be a problem. It seems to me like, they could pack into that trailer, and then travel, and save until they have enough to go get the bus/pay for repairs. I have seen some older model travel trailers out there, that aren't too expensive. It was just a thought. I am not sure what you all think about that. The trailer (provided that the didn't spend much on it, and that they didn't pay more for the trailer than it took to fix the bus) would let them get started traveling, and then have the bus fixed as soon as possible, so they could move to the bus...

Well enough for now...

Doug and family, I am praying for you.

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: plyonsMC9 on February 03, 2009, 05:58:44 AM
Hi Doug,

I just emailed you re: job stuff.   My 2 cents on the bus - give good, prayerful consideration of Dallas' offer.  I would suspect you will have a chance to return a like favor for some other busnut in the future.  Us busnuts look out for each other.   ;D  :D

Also, once you get a bus in good mechanical condition, regular maintenance, etc., I've found they really can take care of you.   Once fixed, it tends to stay fixed in that area.  Not like cars where you may have to keep replacing the same thing.  At least, that is what we have found.  Getting her to that point may cost the $$ - but there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  And of course - don't skimp on the maintenance!!!!

Kind Regards, Phil
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: HighTechRedneck on February 03, 2009, 06:04:52 AM

The bus doesn't overheat when puttering around town, only on the highway.

The first leg of their journey, while towing a trailer, was, for the most part, uneventful - no overheating.

When checking the oil, there appeared to be no water in it - it was typical DD two-stroke black.

That little bit of info suggests to me that the engine itself may be ok, it's just a cooling issue.


Doug really needs an experienced, engine skilled bus nut to look at it.  It could be something as simple as one or more of the fans died or is losing rpm's.  Personally, I think that system needs to be torn out asap anyway and replaced with the original type of fan/shroud.  There are two problems with using the fan arrangement it has as I see it.  First and most importantly is the total cubic feet per minute capability.  I am seriously doubtful that four Nissan radiator fans can move the same cubic feet as the huge original fan.  Second, even if they did move the same cfm, the original shrouded fan pulled air through every bit of the radiator.  4 round fans mounted tightly to the radiator would leave a substantial amount of fin surface area with no airflow.

It pains me to think that a company like S&S would suggest an unnecessary engine rebuild.  But in their mind, they may have simply thought to "cover all bases in case there was consequential damage".  They are most accustomed to customers with budgets to cover such high dollar repairs.  Plus from what I've seen, most shops will try to "upsell" the repair ticket with items that would arguably restore it to 100% condition, but aren't "essential" to normal operation for many miles to come.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 06:45:43 AM
Doug ,Jamie ,please do keep us posted as to the reply if any from the previous owners response,if that doesn't work I'm shure that an out pouring of folks here could go to their website to express a need for them to help in this (respectfully of course ),they could very well be on the road singing also(haven't checked their appearance dates yet).I will obviously wait for a reply from them first and go by what you feel should be recommended,whoa!  Van ;)

Van, yes, we will keep all posted on whether they respond or not.  We are just praying for Gods will and that the right thing is done by them.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 06:53:59 AM

Doug really needs an experienced, engine skilled bus nut to look at it.  It could be something as simple as one or more of the fans died or is losing rpm's.  Personally, I think that system needs to be torn out asap anyway and replaced with the original type of fan/shroud. 

I completely agree on both points.  I will say though that I spent a day and a half and about $300 to replace those four fans and rewire them with 10GA wire and a toggle switch (something the last do-gooder neglected to do) and the fans were working as good as they could be expected to (no doubt in my mind now that even if they were brand new and working at 110% efficiency they couldn't match the CFM flow of a 40HP fan that the DD's have on them).  I just hope that the times I did overheat didn't damage anything.  But no way for me to know that with my lack of knowledge about these old girls.

Thanks for your input and suggestions.  All very much appreciated.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 03, 2009, 06:58:24 AM
That's a nice looking bus.  Definitely not a scrapper.  Were there any documents supporting the rebuild?  How was driving it anyway, did the steering brakes suspension feel right/tight?  (Hard to say if this is the first bus you have driven).  Also if it has spring brakes/Maxis it is already pretty good value.  Hopefully the PO will give you some $ back as the fan system sounds really wrong and they should have at least told you about it.  You guys were careful about not overheating it which is great, so maybe all we're talking about is a new fan drive and shroud, which given how nice the bus looks (does it look as good in person?) is reasonable for the $ you paid.  Anyhow welcome to the community, sounds like you are getting a lot of help already, don't know how you are going to fit all the kids in there, some folks have built bay bedrooms with hatches etc  that could work, maybe this is a starter bus and later you'll get a scenicruiser.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 07:46:51 AM
That's a nice looking bus.  Definitely not a scrapper.  Were there any documents supporting the rebuild?  How was driving it anyway, did the steering brakes suspension feel right/tight?  (Hard to say if this is the first bus you have driven).  Also if it has spring brakes/Maxis it is already pretty good value.  Hopefully the PO will give you some $ back as the fan system sounds really wrong and they should have at least told you about it.  You guys were careful about not overheating it which is great, so maybe all we're talking about is a new fan drive and shroud, which given how nice the bus looks (does it look as good in person?) is reasonable for the $ you paid.  Anyhow welcome to the community, sounds like you are getting a lot of help already, don't know how you are going to fit all the kids in there, some folks have built bay bedrooms with hatches etc  that could work, maybe this is a starter bus and later you'll get a scenicruiser.

No documents supporting the rebuild.  Yes, this is the first bus I have driven.  Driving was pretty good although when I would brake hard, it would make a loud thump and pull to the left but if I didn't step on the brakes too hard, it was fine.  It "floated" a little at 60MPH (the few times she got there) but overall, it seemed pretty tight.  High side winds were a little scary the first time, but I just slowed down and white knuckled it for a while.  To the PO's credit, they did tell us about the cooling system, but they assured us that it was adequate and that they had never had any issues with it.  Being neophytes, we believed them.  Hard to believe in three years they never experienced over heating.

God Bless,

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: johns4104 on February 03, 2009, 08:02:39 AM
IT seems like the gospel group was short on funds and when the hydraulic fan drive went out they went cheap and put the electric fans on it.
We all know this is not enough to keep the 871 cool.
if the did have it on there for 3 years and are telling the truth about cooling.
Did they pull a trailer, drive in the heat, climb any mountians?
Seems to me this is a short term thing that they did just to sell this thing.
Anyway check and see it they or the guy that did it stall has the parts laying around so that they can be reinstalled!
Also the good news is that from what is being described the engine is not junk!!!

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: HighTechRedneck on February 03, 2009, 08:08:56 AM
Anyway check and see it they or the guy that did it stall has the parts laying around so that they can be reinstalled!

Excellent idea!

If they don't, you could call Nimco, they might have parts for that at a reasonable price.  Also there are bus graveyards that might have the parts (plus of course the parts people here have offered).
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 03, 2009, 08:26:39 AM

No documents supporting the rebuild.  Yes, this is the first bus I have driven.  Driving was pretty good although when I would brake hard, it would make a loud thump and pull to the left but if I didn't step on the brakes too hard, it was fine.  It "floated" a little at 60MPH (the few times she got there) but overall, it seemed pretty tight.  High side winds were a little scary the first time, but I just slowed down and white knuckled it for a while.  To the PO's credit, they did tell us about the cooling system, but they assured us that it was adequate and that they had never had any issues with it.  Being neophytes, we believed them.  Hard to believe in three years they never experienced over heating.

God Bless,

Doug

The pulling sounds like the brakes are out of adjustment, no big deal, but must be done before you do any more highway driving.  The thump will have to be looked into, probably bushings.  My bus scared the hell out of me the first time I got up to 60...the next day I was used to it all day long.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 08:32:32 AM
IT seems like the gospel group was short on funds and when the hydraulic fan drive went out they went cheap and put the electric fans on it.
We all know this is not enough to keep the 871 cool.
if the did have it on there for 3 years and are telling the truth about cooling.
Did they pull a trailer, drive in the heat, climb any mountians?
Seems to me this is a short term thing that they did just to sell this thing.
Anyway check and see it they or the guy that did it stall has the parts laying around so that they can be reinstalled!
Also the good news is that from what is being described the engine is not junk!!!

John

Yes, they pulled a trailer with a race car on it and drove about 1000 miles in three years(so they said).  They said it never overheated for them.  Kind of unlikely, but that is what they said.  They don't have the original parts because I asked when we got it
(not knowing what they were).
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 03, 2009, 08:41:47 AM
How long would it take to rebuild the original cooling system? I have never reinstalled a system like that, so I just wondered if we were talking about a day, a week, or what...

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Tom Y on February 03, 2009, 09:49:20 AM
Doug, Were you able to get all the air out of the cooling system? So did you put in the amount you removed?  Tom Y 
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 03, 2009, 10:08:53 AM
well that's interesting.  If you can believe them, and it may be true, maybe just maybe the system cools enough for an unloaded bus (how heavy was the trailer?)  Everything I have read says no, but nothing is impossible, and maybe a well tuned 871 lightly loaded was cooled enough (maybe there is a new rad in there as well).
   If that is the case you just had a stuck thermostat, this happens a lot with old thermos that haven't run in awhile.  Every spring when I take out my summer car, it overheats until I thwack the thermo housing with a piece of hardwood, then the thermo opens and I'm good for the season. I have tried installing fresh thermos but after a year they do the same thing. Now wouldn't that be a blessing and a shame if that was all there was to it.  It would explain how you had trouble refilling the engine with coolant as well.  An old Mexican trick I have used is to remove the thermo completely for running in very hot weather, with no thermo in place the engine will run much cooler (too cold!) as a  thermo even fully open restricts flow.
  So...I'm sure others may nay this, but it's cold outside and I'm procrastinating and besides sometimes the simple things are the problem K.I.S.S.  and all that.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 10:28:12 AM
Doug, Were you able to get all the air out of the cooling system? So did you put in the amount you removed?  Tom Y 

No, I only put about 5.5 gallons back in and drained around 8.  I thought all along this could be part of the over heating issue after I worked on the old girl.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 10:33:04 AM
well that's interesting.  If you can believe them, and it may be true, maybe just maybe the system cools enough for an unloaded bus (how heavy was the trailer?)  Everything I have read says no, but nothing is impossible, and maybe a well tuned 871 lightly loaded was cooled enough (maybe there is a new rad in there as well).
   If that is the case you just had a stuck thermostat, this happens a lot with old thermos that haven't run in awhile.  Every spring when I take out my summer car, it overheats until I thwack the thermo housing with a piece of hardwood, then the thermo opens and I'm good for the season. I have tried installing fresh thermos but after a year they do the same thing. Now wouldn't that be a blessing and a shame if that was all there was to it.  It would explain how you had trouble refilling the engine with coolant as well.  An old Mexican trick I have used is to remove the thermo completely for running in very hot weather, with no thermo in place the engine will run much cooler (too cold!) as a  thermo even fully open restricts flow.
  So...I'm sure others may nay this, but it's cold outside and I'm procrastinating and besides sometimes the simple things are the problem K.I.S.S.  and all that.

We did overheat several times though from Dallas to San Angelo before I worked on her, but we were towing a 1 ton trailer hauling a full sized Ford E350 Super Duty van.  I think part of my issue was the fact that I drained out 8 gallons or so of rad fluid but only could put 5.5 gallons back in.  Never could get her to bleed air.  Could be that simple I suppose but I just couldn't get it figured out.  Where was a good bus nut in El Paso when I needed one?   ::)  I keep praying someone from El Paso will chime in and say they can take a look at her only to discover something that simple is what is wrong.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 03, 2009, 10:44:18 AM
The good mechanics in El Paso are probably in Juarez.  Not bus nuts but some of the best "McGiver"-ers out there.  When you were having your problems in El Paso it was not too clear exactly what was wrong, although it was obviuosly a cooling problem.  Everything I know says it's the hay wire electric fan set up but if the POs had no problems with it there is a chance that's all you need for now.  In the future you will need the proper fan set up.  In your shoes I would get a mech to make sure the head gaskets aren't blown (should have no: pressure in the cooling system at start up engine cold/ oil in the cooling system/ coolant in the oil ((need to drain some out of the sump as it sits down there))) Drop in a new thermo and see.
If you do a ride share or other drive away thing so you are not pulling your van back things may be easier as well.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 03, 2009, 11:25:25 AM
Zub,

That is excellent advice! Now can you tell Doug how he can bleed the air from the cooling system? I wonder whether it might be something relatively simple. You had a great suggestion about it just being the thermo, that would make good sense.

Doug, do you know if your bus had been sitting for a while? I wonder if it was, that would be the reason for some of your problems. BTW, I really don't think that you got burned on the deal. It was just a bit overpriced for the mechanical condition of it. Really I think that you bought a very reasonable bus. Keep you head up, and you will be able to get it running pretty soon.

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 03, 2009, 12:27:51 PM
If the thermo is stuck closed it won't let the coolant from the rad into the block, so he won't be able to burp it until he gets it up to temp with a thermo that opens, then on subsequent stops you keep topping off the coolant.
 As I write on this it's making more and more sense.  When I got my 4104 it took forever for the engine to reach operating temps, really only once I was on the open road (Doug had the same experience in town)  It even made me wonder for awhile if the PO had removed the thermo.  If I had 7.5K $ to spend the time, and a fan hub assembly, maybe I would even bet on it and pick it up myself, sure looks nicer than my rig, and I could always just put my 671 in there and get the good mileage and lousy performance I crave.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Tom Y on February 03, 2009, 01:10:54 PM
Doug, A local in my area has a GM also. He changed the stick to an auto, drained the coolant and added a cooler. When he was done he ruined (sorry) the engine on his first trip. He thinks he had an air lock on one half of his engine. I stopped to see him today to ask more about this but did not catch him. I will try again, and let you know. I would think some of these GM owners would chime in if they changed their fluid and had problems. So, just an idea and I may be wasting your time.  Good Luck.  Tom Y
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Don Fairchild on February 03, 2009, 01:53:46 PM
Doug & Dallas

If you can wait till the end of april we are going to LA for the mud bug festival and we can leave a couple days earlier and go the 10 to meet Dallas to help fix your coach.

Chris:  Do you have the fan and the gears for the torus.

Doug :  do you know or can you find out what oil pump is on the engine, if it was changed to a regular pump it will need to be changed along with the relief and regulator valves
I have A oil pump I will let you have. We will have to get the valves from Luke or?

Doug:  we need to find a fan shroud if it was also removed

Let me know what I can do to help


Don
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Lin on February 03, 2009, 02:04:55 PM
Is it really possible that an 8v71 could be driven thousands of miles being adequately cooled by a couple of Nissan fans???  I seem to remember some electric fan experiments that did not go well.  There was something about optimism versus physics, and physics won out.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: busshawg on February 03, 2009, 02:19:48 PM
Stuck thermostat, huh, makes sense to me. I have gone through the same dam thing because of a thermostat. Especially if there is an air lock which sounds like there definitly is.

Now are the head gaskets gone? Only one way to find out. If there are not leaking internally it could be run back home with the rad caps loose, once the air lock is out.

I do think Don is on the right track though, the cooling system needs to be redone , especially if a trailer is behind. I do wonder if under a light load and a close eye on the temp gauge that maybe they did get away with it like that, as already mentioned. Then when Doug hooked the trl on and put it under load,  yep you guys get it. Sounds like it could be a easy fix , especially if the head gaskets are okay, hopefully it didn't get too hot.

As far as the price of the bus goes doesn't look over priced to me , even if a repair is neccessary but then again we don't have such a nice crop to pick from up here.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 02:45:18 PM
Doug, A local in my area has a GM also. He changed the stick to an auto, drained the coolant and added a cooler. When he was done he ruined (sorry) the engine on his first trip. He thinks he had an air lock on one half of his engine. I stopped to see him today to ask more about this but did not catch him. I will try again, and let you know. I would think some of these GM owners would chime in if they changed their fluid and had problems. So, just an idea and I may be wasting your time.  Good Luck.  Tom Y

Tom,

  That is the big question at hand.  Did I toast the engine trying to be bus mechanic boy.  Hopefully that question will be answered soon.  Thanks for the info and let me know what your local guy says when you talk to him.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 02:50:39 PM
Doug & Dallas

If you can wait till the end of april we are going to LA for the mud bug festival and we can leave a couple days earlier and go the 10 to meet Dallas to help fix your coach.

Chris:  Do you have the fan and the gears for the torus.

Doug :  do you know or can you find out what oil pump is on the engine, if it was changed to a regular pump it will need to be changed along with the relief and regulator valves
I have A oil pump I will let you have. We will have to get the valves from Luke or?

Doug:  we need to find a fan shroud if it was also removed

Let me know what I can do to help


Don

Don,

  Your offer to help is way too kind.  I don't have the answers to your questions, sorry.  I bought this old girl sight unseen and didn't get any background on her.  The fan shroud is not present.  As for the time frame, I don't honestly know if I can wait that long to get this done.  I am working against some things that are going to make waiting that long a fairly big issue.  I am going to talk with Dallas tonight.  Mayybe we can formulate a plan that can bring all of this together.  Thank you for wanting to help and I hope we get to meet at some point.  Your reputation on the boards and among the good folks here is stellar.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 02:55:51 PM
well that's interesting.  If you can believe them, and it may be true, maybe just maybe the system cools enough for an unloaded bus (how heavy was the trailer?) 

The trailer was a 16' foot VERY HEAVY old tandem axle car trailer with our 15 passenger Ford E350 Super Duty on board.  Probably around 7K lbs would be my guess.  The trailer was in such bad shape after our mishap in El Paso that we dumped her for half of what the sellers sold her to us for.  All in all, between the bus and the trailer we should definitely count our blessings that we made it as far as we did.  I am pretty sure angels were holding up that trailer.  I haven't even spoke about that whole ordeal.  We lost a tire AND RIM in El Paso annd didn't know it until we bottomed the trailer out on a bump near the RV park we landed in.  Kind of funny now that I look back on it, but I was very stressed when it happened imagining all of the bad things that could have if that tire would have blown at 55MPH with the van on her.  Something I will not soon forget.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 02:56:28 PM
Zub,

That is excellent advice! Now can you tell Doug how he can bleed the air from the cooling system? I wonder whether it might be something relatively simple. You had a great suggestion about it just being the thermo, that would make good sense.

Doug, do you know if your bus had been sitting for a while? I wonder if it was, that would be the reason for some of your problems. BTW, I really don't think that you got burned on the deal. It was just a bit overpriced for the mechanical condition of it. Really I think that you bought a very reasonable bus. Keep you head up, and you will be able to get it running pretty soon.

God bless,

John

Yes, she had been sitting for months as far as I know.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: busshawg on February 03, 2009, 03:16:05 PM
Don't want to make light of the fact you lost a tire, could have been very bad. However I did laugh a bit when I read this, only because it reminds me of predicaments I seem to get myself into. Kind of a selffish bugger I am huh?, haha , taking comfort that someone else has bad days too! Well that's all over now, thank goodness I'm sure.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 03:28:01 PM
Don't want to make light of the fact you lost a tire, could have been very bad. However I did laugh a bit when I read this, only because it reminds me of predicaments I seem to get myself into. Kind of a selffish bugger I am huh?, haha , taking comfort that someone else has bad days too! Well that's all over now, thank goodness I'm sure.

LOL, yes I can definitely laugh about it now.  We must have been quite the sight to those poor RV park folks as we limped in to that park missing a whole tire and rim on our trailer.  It really puts a smile on face now looking back at it.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 03, 2009, 06:12:31 PM
Doug,

I had no idea that you lost a tire and rim! The Lord sure blessed you all! I know how "lost" one can feel when things like that start happening...

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: NJT 5573 on February 03, 2009, 06:30:14 PM
Doug,
Buy an air bleed and replace a pipe plug somewhere on the top of your engine. Try to get it in the highest point possible and if you can't get it above both heads, put one in each side. These are standard twist type air bleeds, my compressor has one and also most airtanks. Suprised you don't already have one or more.

Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: OneLapper on February 03, 2009, 06:33:36 PM
It'll be difficult to offer the proper technique to bleed the air out because we still have no real idea of what's missing as far the the heating and cooling systems.  But here goes...  When I installed a new radiator ($1500 btw, but it was also thicker than eom) and new thermostats, I jacked up the back of the bus about a foot, opened the shutoff valve in the hose from the antifreeze tank to the engine, turned on the circulator motor for the coach heater, ran the engine while topping off the antifreeze.  She took all but two or so gallons.  After driving it around, I would top off the coolant.

Doug, did you take any pictures of the buses systems?  Can you post any?  That will help.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 06:50:04 PM
It'll be difficult to offer the proper technique to bleed the air out because we still have no real idea of what's missing as far the the heating and cooling systems.  But here goes...  When I installed a new radiator ($1500 btw, but it was also thicker than eom) and new thermostats, I jacked up the back of the bus about a foot, opened the shutoff valve in the hose from the antifreeze tank to the engine, turned on the circulator motor for the coach heater, ran the engine while topping off the antifreeze.  She took all but two or so gallons.  After driving it around, I would top off the coolant.

Doug, did you take any pictures of the buses systems?  Can you post any?  That will help.

Good luck!

I can send you the pictures I have, just ask.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 03, 2009, 07:14:00 PM
Okay Doug, I will ask ;D ;D ;D. You can post them here. Just resize and post as an attachment. When creating a post you will see an "additional options" under the left corner of the text box. Just include attachments, and post your pics ;D ;D ;D.

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Chopper Scott on February 03, 2009, 07:43:39 PM
I remember back in the old days....(Yeah way back then!) whenever we replaced a thermostat or rebuilt an engine that we always drilled a small hole in the thermostat to eliminate any such airlock. Since those glorious days all thermostats I have seen have a built in bypass that allows entraped air past and thus eliminates the airlocks that happened back then. Eventually the block will heat up enough to open a thermostat even if an airlock is causing the problem. I would check off that as a problem. By all means I am not an expert but would lean more on the fact that the electric fans really suck (so to speak).  If there is a problem with the thermostats it could basically only be one of the two that is stuck also. Obviously checking the oil for water contamination would be my first check now, replacing both thermostats and making sure the water pump is circulating the coolant and crossing my fingers that the ole girl doesn't blow any white smoke. Take that offer for any original fan setup, send the keys to Dallas and remember the term "KISS". It always seems to be something simple. Oh and by the way. I have never in my life seen a forum that is so filled with incredible generous folks as this one is. Maybe becoming a busnut really isn't just about the busses! God has some strange paths he sends us on!!! :)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: HighTechRedneck on February 03, 2009, 07:56:52 PM
I have never in my life seen a forum that is so filled with incredible generous folks as this one is. Maybe becoming a busnut really isn't just about the busses! God has some strange paths he sends us on!!! :)

My thoughts exactly!  When I first came to the forum I expected it to be just another enthusiast group where I could find information about bus conversions.  What I found was an extended family.  The magnitude of caring and help here is beyond anything I've ever seen elsewhere.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 08:02:09 PM
Oh and by the way. I have never in my life seen a forum that is so filled with incredible generous folks as this one is. Maybe becoming a busnut really isn't just about the busses! God has some strange paths he sends us on!!! :)

Amen to that Brother. My sentiments exactly and imagine my surprise to find not just enthusiasts but an immediate extended family who have already treated me better than any family I have known.  Very humbling.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 03, 2009, 08:04:52 PM
I have never in my life seen a forum that is so filled with incredible generous folks as this one is. Maybe becoming a busnut really isn't just about the busses! God has some strange paths he sends us on!!! :)

My thoughts exactly!  When I first came to the forum I expected it to be just another enthusiast group where I could find information about bus conversions.  What I found was an extended family.  The magnitude of caring and help here is beyond anything I've ever seen elsewhere.

I have never seen this kind of community before either online or off.  I feel very privileged to have stumbled upon this happy little world.  I can't wait to meet folks and put faces with names.  The good folks here have saved me from sure doom and gloom by opening up the way they have and helping me like I was their best friend.  Simply amazing.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Jriddle on February 03, 2009, 09:33:10 PM
I had my wife read this thread last night. Big Doug in Oregon has a problem and has just joined this board and look at the help he has received. This has renewed my faith that there are good people out there. I see this in the flying comunity and now seeing in the bus comunity. Looks like a few people with similar intrest will treat each other right. Life is to short and we need to help each other out. Praise for all of you. Big Doug I live in Wells NV when you get that thing moving north you can park in the drive way for a few days.

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Barn Owl on February 03, 2009, 10:44:07 PM
An important aspect of this hobby is helping each other. Unless you are very well off, it would much more difficult to operated a bus without having the support that is found here and on BNO. In the back of our minds, I think we all know that could easily be one of us stranded out there in the middle of nowhere, at the mercy of some jack leg repair shop. It is hard to find better folks than can be found here.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: cody on February 04, 2009, 05:18:45 AM
It's a disease.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Dreamscape on February 04, 2009, 05:57:39 AM
With no known cure!
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 04, 2009, 06:05:49 AM
And it gets worse, if you don't have one ;D ;), or are separated from yours. That is probably Doug's problem, he is suffering from withdrawal (which doesn't get better with time ;D).

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Busted Knuckle on February 04, 2009, 06:12:29 AM
OK I've been absent from the board quite a bit lately, and I liked to have never got done reading all of the posts on this thread.
But now that things might be getting back to somewhat normal around here, (yeah right what ever that is!) I may not be able to go and help any, and I don't have any parts or $ to offer, but if needed I could use my account to accept and disperse funds if needed! I really hope we can do this and get Doug, Jamie & the kiddo's bus up and running as economically as possible and still be reliable for them. (of course reliability really depends on what condition the rest of it is in, and how it is maintained from now on!)
I have really started wondering about my sanity the past week or 2 as it seems that everywhere we look folks are in bad shape and we just stepped out and bought another bus company out! So if I go AWOL again I'll probably be down at the state hospital in Bolivar, TN being evaluated or admitted! ;D  BK  ;D
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: wvanative on February 04, 2009, 06:27:06 AM
BK, glad you are back among the living again. As for the possible visit to the state hospital let me offer my services to you. I started when I was a kid waiting to know how things were put to gether and worked, I did a lot of operation on small animals, rodents, and some larger one also. I found brain surgery to be some of my most interesting, and some of my most enjoyable. So let me know when your ready, hey I won't even charge you because your my buddy.

WvaNative

                      P.S. You will have to sign a few forms to release me from liability if anything goes wrong
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 04, 2009, 06:32:29 AM
WV :D ::) ;D ;D :D LOL

BK, glad to hear that you are back. Too bad you told us about buying the other company out. We are going to want to see pics of the buses ;D ;) ;D(unless it was just the name and no buses). Still, I hope things go well, and that you guys have more work (making income, not fixing buses) than you know what to do with ;D ;D ;D.

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: cody on February 04, 2009, 06:57:07 AM
I'll pass on the pics, to buy out a clothing optional charter bus company only takes money but for BK to drive with only a smile on creates a visual that only months of theropy would erase lol.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: redbus on February 04, 2009, 07:23:56 AM
Dallas

We are in Quartzsite now but will be going to Bakersfield,Ca.and then east around the 1st of March. If there is anything I can do let me know. We will be going through ElPaso.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 04, 2009, 07:42:40 AM
I had my wife read this thread last night. Big Doug in Oregon has a problem and has just joined this board and look at the help he has received. This has renewed my faith that there are good people out there. I see this in the flying comunity and now seeing in the bus comunity. Looks like a few people with similar intrest will treat each other right. Life is to short and we need to help each other out. Praise for all of you. Big Doug I live in Wells NV when you get that thing moving north you can park in the drive way for a few days.

John

Sounds good John.  A lot of miles between where I am now and getting the bus home.  If I pass that way, I will take you up on your offer.

God Bless,

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 04, 2009, 07:43:55 AM
And it gets worse, if you don't have one ;D ;), or are separated from yours. That is probably Doug's problem, he is suffering from withdrawal (which doesn't get better with time ;D).

God bless,

John

I thought I was just going a little (more) cuckoo.  Glad to finally be diagnosed.  lol.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Busted Knuckle on February 04, 2009, 07:53:17 AM
I'll pass on the pics, to buy out a clothing optional charter bus company only takes money but for BK to drive with only a smile on creates a visual that only months of theropy would erase lol.

See PS on new thread about new prez, bus co & buses! ;D  BK  ;D

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=10932.0

by the way Cody only thought he was joking when he told people that I hauled the "Swedish Bikini Team"
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Dallas on February 04, 2009, 07:53:30 AM
Terry,
Thanks for the offer, you might make the same one to Doug and maybe give him a ride down to his forlorn baby! ;D

It looks like right now the plan is to find someone in the El Paso area that can go to the storage lot and get an oil sample and then take it in to be tested for glycol and unwanted metals. If glycol is present, I'll drain the oil and coolant and replace with water and fresh clean oil. If glycol isn't present, I'll get it ready to travel and get the heck out of El Paso as quick as possible.

If that turns out good, I'll be looking for a ride from here, (Franklin, TX) to there, El Paso) along with a few tools and some parts to either put the fan back on, if the fan torus is still functional, or build a misting system for the radiator using the fresh water tank.

Then, I will climb into the old girl and baby her 700 miles back to my place, stopping quite a few times to refill the water tank and to camp for 3 or 4 days if needed.... and it'll definitely be needed, I don't plan on breaking any speed records and I figure I'll be greasy, hot, tired, grumpy and thirsty before the end of each day.

So, what we are talking about is about a week of travel and a some extra cash for parts, camping and of course, ice cold adult beverages!

I also want to take this chance to thank everyone for their input on this minor problem. It kind of renews my faith in humanity, which has been sadly lacking for quite awhile.

If anyone wants to donate to the fund, I guess the easiest way would be to donate through paypal at GHTrucking ^ msn.com (remove the spaces and the ^) or send it directly to Doug at his paypal account, as he'll also be needing to travel back to my place to pick it up after I get it up and running and replace some of the funky design by Disney horrors that have been inflicted on the poor beastie.
You could also send other donations to my wife,
Cat Farnworth
C/O RV Relay Station
Box 457
Franklin, TX 77856

We'll keep a close watch and post what expenditures went where and turn the rest over to Doug to help him get back down to pick up his baby.

I have some pictures that Doug sent me, I'll resize them and get them posted here today.

Dallas

(Doug Posted while I was typing this)

Dallas

We are in Quartzsite now but will be going to Bakersfield,Ca.and then east around the 1st of March. If there is anything I can do let me know. We will be going through ElPaso.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Dallas on February 04, 2009, 08:01:48 AM
Pictures of Doug's Engine, (Resized)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Dallas on February 04, 2009, 08:02:44 AM
More pictures of Doug's Engine, (Resized)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: VanTare on February 04, 2009, 08:03:20 AM
Dallas can we do this by Pay Pal also is Franklin around the Collage Station area maybe I could stop and give you some cash I will be in the area Saturday, I hope these Michelin tires are killing me 2 so far in 3000 miles    



David  
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Dallas on February 04, 2009, 08:03:43 AM
More pictures of Doug's Engine, (Resized)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Dallas on February 04, 2009, 08:04:19 AM
Last One
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Dallas on February 04, 2009, 08:07:28 AM
Hiya David,

We are about 40 miles from College Station. Here is a link to where we are.. our actual location is about a mile south of town on the right hand side as your headed north.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=College%20Station%2C%20TX%20to%20Franklin%2C%20TX&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

And of course, Paypal works too.

Dallas

Dallas can we do this by Pay Pal also is Franklin around the Collage Station area maybe I could stop and give you some cash I will be in the area Saturday, I hope these Michelin tires are killing me 2 so far in 3000 miles    



David  

Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: viento1 on February 04, 2009, 08:42:02 AM
I'm in, what the heck, I was just going to buy beer with it anyway. Good luck
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: bubbaqgal on February 04, 2009, 08:49:48 AM
Paypal works but we would much rather you get to stop by so we could meet you.   ;D
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 04, 2009, 09:04:15 AM
You all are awesome!  No idea how I can repay any of you for your generosity, but my prayer is that someday I can help a fellow bus nut just like you all are helping me.

Dallas and Bob of the North,

  I talked with the storage unit owner (a hell of a nice guy I might add) and his son goes to NM State and comes in and works for Dad on Fridays.  He said his son will take the sample gladly for me on Friday.  He also said he has a friend that is a trucker and that he thinks his friend has the stuff to get a sample.  He is going to call me on Friday and get the specifics on what I need.  Here is my questions.

1.)  Where do we pull the sample from?

2.)  2oz of oil is enough, right?

3.)  Anything I/they should know about the sample (other than a clean bottle and try not to contaminate the sample)?

4.)  Where do we send it and how does it need to be packaged?
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: VanTare on February 04, 2009, 09:11:11 AM
Doug stop by the CAT dealer and  get you a sample bottle and they will have the results in 24 hr I use their service it is tough to beat   


David
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Runcutter on February 04, 2009, 09:17:32 AM
Dallas, check on Southwest Airlines between Austin and El Paso.  One way fare around $200 (they don't show the taxes/fees, that add on top of the $180 airfare).  Southwest has both nonstops and connections at Dallas Love Field.  American is another option; with connections at DFW (as much as I'm there, I may run into you).  American's pricing is competitive with Southwest, where both airlines compete.

Transporting tools may be a problem, (you may want to ship them).  Depending on where the 4106 is, you could use Sun Metro (city buses) from the airport, shared ride van, or cab.

A ride across Texas takes many hours (Dallas to El Paso is around 10 hours driving, 1.5 hours flying).  Unless someone is already going that way, they'd have a round trip, fuel, lodging, etc. could well exceed the one-way airfare.

Amtrak from San Antonio to El Paso (Sunset Limited route) may also be an option.  

I'll be in California next week, probably home in Dallas for a week or so, then Indiana - so I won't have time to go out and serve as mechanic's helper., but if you decide to fly or take Amtrak, I'll chip in on the transportation costs.

If I remember right, Texas Border Dude (Doyle) is from El Paso - I haven't seen him post here for quite a while, but I think I've seen him on the other board in the last couple of months.  He may have some info.  Also, many years ago I did a safety review of Sunset Coaches - a small father and son charter outfit that did a good job.  If the same family still owns it, they may also be some help.  

Arthur
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 04, 2009, 09:35:15 AM
Doug stop by the CAT dealer and  get you a sample bottle and they will have the results in 24 hr I use their service it is tough to beat   


David

VanTare,

Do you have a name?  I called Wagner Equipment Co. in El Paso and they have the oil sample kits (bottle and paperwork) for $13.10 but they ship the sample out to Colorado and it takes a few days to get the results.  Is that the company you were talking about?

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: bobofthenorth on February 04, 2009, 09:45:19 AM
How you pull the sample is a matter of what technology you have available Doug.  Like I said last night, the quick (and very dirty) way to do it is put an ice cream pail under the bung, pull the plug and then put it back in as quick as your oily fingers can get it back in.  I have a fancy syringe-type gadget with about 3 feet of 1/8" line that I feed down the diptube.  Then I screw my sample bottle into the bottom of the syringe and (in theory anyway) pull the sample without ever getting my dainty little fingers dirty.  You probably don't have one of those available.   ::)

When you are asking somebody a long ways away from you to do you a favour my inclination is to make it as easy as possible.  Aside from the fact that he is going to get dirty, my quick and dirty solution seems the easiest method.  Tell him to wear latex gloves - that will help a little bit.

As far as the choice of labs goes, a couple of days to Colorado doesn't sound like a deal breaker.  They will likely email you the results if you ask them to.  This whole rescue mission is going to take a few days to pull together so the oil test can be running simultaneously with some of the other preparatory steps.

Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Tom Y on February 04, 2009, 09:47:07 AM
Doug, Things seem to be coming together for you. I talked to the GM, owner he does not blame his engine failure on lack of coolant. At the time I thought he did, My bad. He did have problems getting coolant in it until he found a vent line or hose plugged with a bee. It was at the thermostat housing and went to the coolant tank. He also has overheating problems when pulling his race car. It was not a problem till he installed the 730 auto. These guys on this board will be far more help than anything I could type here.  Goodluck.  Tom Y  
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 04, 2009, 09:50:00 AM
How you pull the sample is a matter of what technology you have available Doug.  Like I said last night, the quick (and very dirty) way to do it is put an ice cream pail under the bung, pull the plug and then put it back in as quick as your oily fingers can get it back in.  I have a fancy syringe-type gadget with about 3 feet of 1/8" line that I feed down the diptube.  Then I screw my sample bottle into the bottom of the syringe and (in theory anyway) pull the sample without ever getting my dainty little fingers dirty.  You probably don't have one of those available.   ::)

When you are asking somebody a long ways away from you to do you a favour my inclination is to make it as easy as possible.  Aside from the fact that he is going to get dirty, my quick and dirty solution seems the easiest method.  Tell him to wear latex gloves - that will help a little bit.

As far as the choice of labs goes, a couple of days to Colorado doesn't sound like a deal breaker.  They will likely email you the results if you ask them to.  This whole rescue mission is going to take a few days to pull together so the oil test can be running simultaneously with some of the other preparatory steps.



Agreed.  I will wait to see if the owner of the lot has a friend (the trucker) who has a vampire gun.  If not, we will do it the messy way.  Thanks for your input.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 04, 2009, 09:52:45 AM
Doug, Things seem to be coming together for you. I talked to the GM, owner he does not blame his engine failure on lack of coolant. At the time I thought he did, My bad. He did have problems getting coolant in it until he found a vent line or hose plugged with a bee. It was at the thermostat housing and went to the coolant tank. He also has overheating problems when pulling his race car. It was not a problem till he installed the 730 auto. These guys on this board will be far more help than anything I could type here.  Goodluck.  Tom Y  

Thanks for tracking that info down Tom.  It sounds to me like the MacGyver setup that I have needs someone who knows something about cooling to actually fix it.  Dallas was talking last night about hoses routed wrong, etc. so who knows what other *fun* stuff this old gal has had done to her.  The oil sample will be the telltale indicator of what we are looking at for repairs it seems.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Old4103 on February 04, 2009, 09:53:50 AM
Doug there is also a 1/4" plug on the oil filter, (IF it's the cartridge type), that you use to drain th oil from the filter with when changing oil. It may have been changed to a petcock or may even have been stripped out.

If you have a remote spin on fuel bypass filter, there should be a plug on top of the housing just for the purpose of pulling a sample.

Dallas
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 04, 2009, 10:23:09 AM
Doug there is also a 1/4" plug on the oil filter, (IF it's the cartridge type), that you use to drain th oil from the filter with when changing oil. It may have been changed to a petcock or may even have been stripped out.

If you have a remote spin on fuel bypass filter, there should be a plug on top of the housing just for the purpose of pulling a sample.

Dallas

Ok, once I get Bruce (the storage owner) and his son at the bus with the bottle I will walk them through getting a sample.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: RJ on February 04, 2009, 10:56:16 AM
Doug -

Just got off the phone with a fellow busnut here in CA that recently scrapped out a 4106.

He thinks he still has the OEM cooling fan and radiator fan shroud, was going to take a look in his shop later today.

Will keep you posted. . .

 ;)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 04, 2009, 11:25:28 AM
That is great news.  Thanks RJ.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: busshawg on February 04, 2009, 11:38:16 AM
Feeling any better Doug?? Time has a way, hang in there.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Sojourner on February 04, 2009, 11:48:17 AM
Caution...whatever you do, be sure the oil sample is not from settling internal around the drain plug' sump but after a pint or more drain before take sample.
Caution...all sample bottle are sterilized to eliminate false report.

Bottom-line is that the oil sample contains no settlement and free from human (fingers) touch or any unwanted contaminant to avoid false from the lab report.

Otherwise...you will waste your time and money.

Please read the link;
The First Step Toward Better Oil Analysis -- Taking a Proper Sample
(http://www.lubes-n-filters.com/synthetics/oil-analysis.html#first)

I would suggest getting a large drain pan under oil pan with enough clearance to get a bottle in to capture uncontaminated sample. The re-plug & tighten. You may have to jack up with blocks for safety. Remember to let it drain about a pint or more before taking sample.

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 04, 2009, 11:58:39 AM
Feeling any better Doug?? Time has a way, hang in there.

Yes, my spirits are high today even though we had another "personal" thing happen to us (not related to the bus) that was not what we needed, but I am not going there.  Like Van advised, Satan is not going to be allowed to steal our thunder.  It is incredibly refreshing to see so many folks who don't even know us rally to our aid and support.  I too, like Dallas, am renewed from the showering of support.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: busshawg on February 04, 2009, 12:15:31 PM
As I was, and still am!
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: VanTare on February 04, 2009, 12:26:54 PM
Doug I use Holt Equipment in San Antiono they have their own lab but 2 days is not bad 


David
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 04, 2009, 12:32:51 PM
Caution...whatever you do, be sure the oil sample is not from settling internal around the drain plug' sump but after a pint or more drain before take sample.
Caution...all sample bottle are sterilized to eliminate false report.

Bottom-line is that the oil sample contains no settlement and free from human (fingers) touch or any unwanted contaminant to avoid false from the lab report.

Otherwise...you will waste your time and money.

Please read the link;
The First Step Toward Better Oil Analysis -- Taking a Proper Sample
(http://www.lubes-n-filters.com/synthetics/oil-analysis.html#first)


I would suggest getting a large drain pan under oil pan with enough clearance to get a bottle in to capture uncontaminated sample. The re-plug & tighten. You may have to jack up with blocks for safety. Remember to let it drain about a pint or more before taking sample.

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald


I spoke with Wagner Equipment Co. in El Paso and they sell a vampire gun (oil analysis vacuum gun) for about $24.00.  The oil analysis kit is $13.10 and comes with the bottle made for this pump and about 3-4ft of silicone tubing so we are good to go.  I will buy the gun and kit and the storage owner's son can take a sample without getting dirty.  I will then just have Bruce put the gun on the bus and I will have one for future use.  No muss, no fuss.  The $13.10 includes the analysis and Carlos at Wagner said it takes about two days to get the results (via snail mail or email).
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Dallas on February 04, 2009, 04:07:31 PM
A bunch of us will be in the Chatroom tonight to cus and discuss How she wiggles when she walks and stuff like that, and how Fassst them Buses will go!

Oh, and we'll probably mention Doug's bus now and then.

Come on in and join us

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/chat/flashchat.php

Dallas
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: rv_safetyman on February 04, 2009, 06:42:33 PM
Doug, I vote for the drain method.  Your engine has set for a while and the water might separate from the oil a bit.  If you pull the plug and water runs out, you will know you have a problem.  If you pull the plug, and oil runs out right away, you probably don't have a major problem (at least from water/oil standpoint)

As others have mentioned, be sure to get a clean sample, letting the oil flow a bit before you draw the sample.

Jim
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 04, 2009, 07:20:03 PM
Doug, I vote for the drain method.  Your engine has set for a while and the water might separate from the oil a bit.  If you pull the plug and water runs out, you will know you have a problem.  If you pull the plug, and oil runs out right away, you probably don't have a major problem (at least from water/oil standpoint)

As others have mentioned, be sure to get a clean sample, letting the oil flow a bit before you draw the sample.

Jim

Jim,

I am going to have a non-bus helper pull a sample with a vampire gun since that was the easiest way I could think of to get 'er done.  I will just make sure he puts the hose in as far as he can before he pulls the sample.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 05, 2009, 06:54:41 AM
this goes way back to the beginning of the thread but I thought  I would mention it.  On a 6-71 there is apparently a vent that can be opened on the top of the thermostat, this is done when refilling the cooling system.  I came across this last night while studying up on my engine.  Someone here hopefully can confirm that 8V71s have this as well?  Also, I have a pdf of the maintenace manual for coach and engine of my 4104 which I had printed for ease of reference. I'm pretty sure I would be lost without it.  If you do decide to keep this bus, try to get hold of the  books for your bus.  Zimtok was the original scanner for my books (thanks again Zimtok) but that was a labour of love as he has a 4104.  Maybe someone here has the 8V71 book scanned?    I have always used factory manuals to help me stay on top of my old vehicles, they don't show everything but they help, and also can be used as reference points on these long complicated threads.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 05, 2009, 06:59:30 AM
this goes way back to the beginning of the thread but I thought  I would mention it.  On a 6-71 there is apparently a vent that can be opened on the top of the thermostat, this is done when refilling the cooling system.  I came across this last night while studying up on my engine.  Someone here hopefully can confirm that 8V71s have this as well?  Also, I have a pdf of the maintenace manual for coach and engine of my 4104 which I had printed for ease of reference. I'm pretty sure I would be lost without it.  If you do decide to keep this bus, try to get hold of the  books for your bus.  Zimtok was the original scanner for my books (thanks again Zimtok) but that was a labour of love as he has a 4104.  Maybe someone here has the 8V71 book scanned?    I have always used factory manuals to help me stay on top of my old vehicles, they don't show everything but they help, and also can be used as reference points on these long complicated threads.

Zub,

  I have the maintenance manual, parts manual  and operators manuals (for the OEM bus it appears) for the PD4106.  I found them on the bus and they are in CD format.  I have poured over them and most of what I have read made sense, but some of the info just didn't seem to jive with my ride.  I would be happy to share this if anyone wants it, although it is one big PDF (148MB) so I would have to setup an FTP site for you and give you access (which I would be happy to do, just ask).

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: JackConrad on February 05, 2009, 07:07:27 AM
   I would think that an air lock on an 8V71 in a 4106 would occur in the top (towards the builkhead) cylinder head. As the engine was filled with water, it would push the air up into this cylinder head. Is there a petcock somewhere on this cylinder head or thermostat housing?  Jack
.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Old4103 on February 05, 2009, 07:19:25 AM
this goes way back to the beginning of the thread but I thought  I would mention it.  On a 6-71 there is apparently a vent that can be opened on the top of the thermostat, this is done when refilling the cooling system.  I came across this last night while studying up on my engine.  Someone here hopefully can confirm that 8V71s have this as well?  Also, I have a pdf of the maintenace manual for coach and engine of my 4104 which I had printed for ease of reference. I'm pretty sure I would be lost without it.  If you do decide to keep this bus, try to get hold of the  books for your bus.  Zimtok was the original scanner for my books (thanks again Zimtok) but that was a labour of love as he has a 4104.  Maybe someone here has the 8V71 book scanned?    I have always used factory manuals to help me stay on top of my old vehicles, they don't show everything but they help, and also can be used as reference points on these long complicated threads.

   I would think that an air lock on an 8V71 in a 4106 would occur in the top (towards the builkhead) cylinder head. As the engine was filled with water, it would push the air up into this cylinder head. Is there a petcock somewhere on this cylinder head or thermostat housing?  Jack
.

Yes on most of the 8V's in GMC's, there is suppose to be a petcock to expel the air on top of the thermostat housing. Sometimes I've found it on the back of the surge tank, where a line goes from the top of the thermostat to the upper back side of the tank.
Unfortunately, I had Doug look for one in both places, and it's been removed. I then had him remove the line from the top of the housing and he reported that only coolant came out... no bubbles.
This now makes sense after looking at the photo's he sent me. The upper radiator hose is suppose to go from the thermostat housing to the top of the radiator... if you look in the pictures I posted on here... it's actually drooping like it's headed south.
I'd like to know where the upper hose from the radiator is routed.

Oh, and Doug, Yes, I'd like a copy of your CD manual. Very Much, Please Please Please Please!

Dallas
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Barn Owl on February 05, 2009, 07:21:37 AM
Doug,

I would be interested in a digital copy of the manuals. I am posting a photo of the 8v71 bleeder on a 4106. There are also bleeders at the primary heater core in the side compartment, and the defrost heater core under the dash.

Barn Owl
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 05, 2009, 07:25:43 AM
Hi Doug is there not also a engine manual?  You didn't mention it in your list of manuals.  The engine manual is very detailed, and while it doesn't cover all aspects of the engine (some of which are covered by the coach manual) it definitely covers some things that the coach manual lacks.  I have a separate pdf of a manual that covers the 4-71 and 6-71 in all it's road applications truck, transit and coach and this is the one that covers the cooling fan hub and other specifics of the cooling system not mentioned in the coach manual.  Out of curiosity is this the case with your manuals?
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 05, 2009, 07:33:24 AM
talking through my hat here but looking at the pics from Doug and Barn Owl, Doug's looks like one of those emergency rad hoses with the internal spring so they don't collapse when they are bent.  They create a lot more resistance than the one in Barn Owl's.  Also while there is no pet cock on Doug's thermo housing there is the small coolant line where it should be, but as Dallas had you crack that one????  weird how the coolant line heads south like that.   Where is a bus nut when you need one??  Probably the El Paso ones are wintering  in Guanajuato.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 05, 2009, 07:39:09 AM
   I would think that an air lock on an 8V71 in a 4106 would occur in the top (towards the builkhead) cylinder head. As the engine was filled with water, it would push the air up into this cylinder head. Is there a petcock somewhere on this cylinder head or thermostat housing?  Jack
.

Don't know Jack.  I couldn't find one but that doesn't mean it isn't there.  I was kind of overwhelmed with the whole series of events (constant overheating and having to pull over every 10 miles, almost being road pizza due to the catastrophic failure of one of the trailer tires (oh I wonder where that tire went), the front right air bag wigging out and over inflating enough it was scary to drive until I figured out how to manually adjust the bag from inside at the air suspension controls, and probably was just blind.  I was just reading the cooling section of the maintenance manual and was a little shocked to see that the system uses 92 quarts of fluid (~23 gallons).  I could have sworn being told it uses about 10 gallons.  Maybe the 10 gallons is just the radiator without the driver heating.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 05, 2009, 07:43:17 AM
Hi Doug is there not also a engine manual?  You didn't mention it in your list of manuals.  The engine manual is very detailed, and while it doesn't cover all aspects of the engine (some of which are covered by the coach manual) it definitely covers some things that the coach manual lacks.  I have a separate pdf of a manual that covers the 4-71 and 6-71 in all it's road applications truck, transit and coach and this is the one that covers the cooling fan hub and other specifics of the cooling system not mentioned in the coach manual.  Out of curiosity is this the case with your manuals?

Nope, just the parts, maintenance and operator manual.  I would love to have a digital copy of an 8v71 engine manual.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 05, 2009, 07:53:23 AM
this goes way back to the beginning of the thread but I thought  I would mention it.  On a 6-71 there is apparently a vent that can be opened on the top of the thermostat, this is done when refilling the cooling system.  I came across this last night while studying up on my engine.  Someone here hopefully can confirm that 8V71s have this as well?  Also, I have a pdf of the maintenace manual for coach and engine of my 4104 which I had printed for ease of reference. I'm pretty sure I would be lost without it.  If you do decide to keep this bus, try to get hold of the  books for your bus.  Zimtok was the original scanner for my books (thanks again Zimtok) but that was a labour of love as he has a 4104.  Maybe someone here has the 8V71 book scanned?    I have always used factory manuals to help me stay on top of my old vehicles, they don't show everything but they help, and also can be used as reference points on these long complicated threads.

   I would think that an air lock on an 8V71 in a 4106 would occur in the top (towards the builkhead) cylinder head. As the engine was filled with water, it would push the air up into this cylinder head. Is there a petcock somewhere on this cylinder head or thermostat housing?  Jack
.

Yes on most of the 8V's in GMC's, there is suppose to be a petcock to expel the air on top of the thermostat housing. Sometimes I've found it on the back of the surge tank, where a line goes from the top of the thermostat to the upper back side of the tank.
Unfortunately, I had Doug look for one in both places, and it's been removed. I then had him remove the line from the top of the housing and he reported that only coolant came out... no bubbles.
This now makes sense after looking at the photo's he sent me. The upper radiator hose is suppose to go from the thermostat housing to the top of the radiator... if you look in the pictures I posted on here... it's actually drooping like it's headed south.
I'd like to know where the upper hose from the radiator is routed.

Oh, and Doug, Yes, I'd like a copy of your CD manual. Very Much, Please Please Please Please!

Dallas

I'll send you a link to the file in your PM.  I will do the same for anyone who asks.  Like I said though, the file is 148MB so be patient as it downloads.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 05, 2009, 07:56:43 AM
Question for you Dallas.  Should this bus have power steering?  I got quite the workout driving her and I think my biceps grew several inches in the time I drove her.  Looking at the engine picture, I am pretty sure I see a power steering pump on the right, but maybe not.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 05, 2009, 07:59:13 AM
talking through my hat here but looking at the pics from Doug and Barn Owl, Doug's looks like one of those emergency rad hoses with the internal spring so they don't collapse when they are bent.  They create a lot more resistance than the one in Barn Owl's.  Also while there is no pet cock on Doug's thermo housing there is the small coolant line where it should be, but as Dallas had you crack that one????  weird how the coolant line heads south like that.   Where is a bus nut when you need one??  Probably the El Paso ones are wintering  in Guanajuato.

Yep, those hoses are the ones with the springs inside.  They are in bad shape too, which is why I was trying to replace them.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: bigjohnkub on February 05, 2009, 08:05:15 AM
Just thought I would throw this into the equation. Motors (and that is a brand name) has repair manuals for all diesel engines. They are available at all good parts stores. Mechanics call them the bible. Also if I can offer a stop over place on I-20 between Dallas and Shreveport, just P.M. me. We have about 600 acres that the cows don't use all the time.
  Big John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Old4103 on February 05, 2009, 08:40:38 AM
Doug,

Yup,

It should.

Dallas

Question for you Dallas.  Should this bus have power steering?  I got quite the workout driving her and I think my biceps grew several inches in the time I drove her.  Looking at the engine picture, I am pretty sure I see a power steering pump on the right, but maybe not.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 05, 2009, 08:50:22 AM
Doug,

Yup,

It should.

Dallas

Question for you Dallas.  Should this bus have power steering?  I got quite the workout driving her and I think my biceps grew several inches in the time I drove her.  Looking at the engine picture, I am pretty sure I see a power steering pump on the right, but maybe not.

Just gets better and better.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 05, 2009, 08:58:36 AM
The good news on the power steering is that it's power assist (pretty sure) so it won't be too hard without.  The other good news is you're strong enough to drive it without, must be all those kids hanging off you ( I know mine keep me strong). The PS is  probably out of oil or something, the  least of your worries.  The other good news is that once you have the power back you will really enjoy it.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: John316 on February 05, 2009, 09:10:52 AM

Just gets better and better.

What, your biceps? Or the power steering? ;D ;D ;D

God bless,

John
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 05, 2009, 09:17:04 AM
The good news on the power steering is that it's power assist (pretty sure) so it won't be too hard without.  The other good news is you're strong enough to drive it without, must be all those kids hanging off you ( I know mine keep me strong). The PS is  probably out of oil or something, the  least of your worries.  The other good news is that once you have the power back you will really enjoy it.

Just learning as we go.  Yes, she was drivable, but I was thinking the whole time that "these full time bus drivers must have had huge arms, and an oversized left calf".  lol.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 05, 2009, 09:17:50 AM

Just gets better and better.

What, your biceps? Or the power steering? ;D ;D ;D

God bless,

John

Not the power steering unless it is a self healing system.   ;)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Barn Owl on February 05, 2009, 04:15:44 PM
Doug,

Looking at the photo of your bus engine, I see you have the power steering pump for a hydraulic assist system. That is what I had on my bus, and long story short, it failed because my reservoir cracked. Nimco sells a complete retrofit kit (good take offs from salvaged buses) that will update the bus to integral power steering. The kit includes a Sheppard power steering box, linkage, reservoir, and pump for ~$450. It took one full day to do and I can turn the wheel with one finger. Money well spent for me. If you get around to it, feel free to contact me and I will answer any questions you might have about the changeover.

Please count me in for a link to those manuals.

Thanks,

Barn Owl
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: steve5B on February 05, 2009, 05:00:06 PM


     About the oil sample, SPEEDCO will do one , takes around 3 minutes.  They will also supply you with the bottle.



    Steve  5B....
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 05, 2009, 05:16:58 PM


     About the oil sample, SPEEDCO will do one , takes around 3 minutes.  They will also supply you with the bottle.



    Steve  5B....

Thanks Steve.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Old4103 on February 06, 2009, 12:16:22 PM
Here's the phone number and address for Speedco in El Paso:

1317 Horizon Boulevard
El Paso, TX 79928
(915) 852-4854
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 06, 2009, 12:55:21 PM
Bruce at the storage unit went and got the sampling kit and is pulling the sample today.  Once I get the results I will pass them along.

Thanks all.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: steve5B on February 06, 2009, 02:15:48 PM


    Hi Doug,


  Glad you got the info that I posted, I have a spectrometer and that is part of my business.  When you receive the results

  of the sample, make sure you ask for the PPP. (parts per million sheet)  They have the same machine as I do.  If they don't

  tell you the ware factor in PPM I will.   


   Steve 5B.......
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 10, 2009, 10:39:33 AM
Just an update to let all concerned where we are at.  I finally heard from the seller of the bus (Randy Burgess) in Princeton, Tx and he expressed some concern and wanted the number of the mechanic that was going to try to fix the bus.  So, I gave him Dallas's number and called Dallas to let him know that the PO would be calling him.  Next thing I get is an email from the PO stating that we drove the bus too long, too hot and that is probably why it kept overheating.  He said his mechanic told him that all buses now days have electric fans and somehow inferred that we were the reason the bus had problems.  If he knew that pulling the trailer he sold us with our van on it was too much for the bus, why on Earth would he let us drive away?  Especially knowing I had 7 of my children and my wife in the bus and we were driving 2200 miles?  Blows my mind.

He also mentioned the trailer that he sold us that just about killed us and destroyed our van (we were towing our van on the trailer when it lost a tire and rim, but that is another story) could have been pulled behind our van (missing a tire and rim??) back to Oregon.  Anyway, he said he left a VM with Dallas.  Then he went on about something that kind of perplexed me.  He said Chris called him (don't know any Chris) and told him that he (Randy) had cheated him.

Quote
Another thing  Chris calls me at night and begins to scream how I was cheating him out of his money. I said what is going on.  I havent talked to him in 9 months. He didnt return emails and phone calls.   the bus forum said they where out of business.   He said he had just talked to yopu and i was cheating him out of his money.

Anybody know what he might be talking about?  Sounds like I might not have been the first buyer to have dealt with him?  Or is Chris the Chris from GMBUSGUYS and he had the bus listed on that site and didn't pay a commission (did we talk when I was on my way back to Oregon, I can't remember as it is all kind of fuzzy)?  I don't know but I sure feel awkward being in the middle of this all.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Old4103 on February 10, 2009, 11:08:50 AM
Everyone has been leaving me voice mails! It seems after I talked to you this morning my cel phone battery died, even though it didn't make any noise telling me it was low on charge.
Cat just came in and told me she had had to leave a VM also so I checked and my phone is dead.

I have it on the charger now and will be able to use it in a couple of hours.

Dallas
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 10, 2009, 11:36:43 AM
And the saga continues.  It's better than facebook...but it keeps me from getting work done.  I'm going to have to hit the road soon so I can have a whole episode to myself. :)  I may be taking my bus and family all the way to Honduras next winter so that should produce some drama.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 10, 2009, 11:46:13 AM
And the saga continues.  It's better than facebook...but it keeps me from getting work done.  I'm going to have to hit the road soon so I can have a whole episode to myself. :)  I may be taking my bus and family all the way to Honduras next winter so that should produce some drama.

Yep, but imagine how we feel being "the saga" and not being able to just turn it off.   ::)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: kingfa39 on February 11, 2009, 08:17:07 AM
reading all this about this bus it is my opinion that the elec fans are probly the big fault, how hot did the engine get?? for how long? the problem with trailers and buses is that it is difficult to see whats going on back there, i have had flats on my tow dollie more than once without seeing it or knowing even thogh i have a camera back there, the 06 is a great bus and has given our family more than 20 yrs of fun with no big deal problems, i towed a car from North carolina to california over the mountains in summer on both sides of the country, engine never got over 180 deg. i hope you can get this worked out seems you have some wonderful people trying hard to help, im also trying to figure out what i can do to help but am striglling myself. good luck
Frank Allen 4106
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 11, 2009, 10:26:39 AM
reading all this about this bus it is my opinion that the elec fans are probly the big fault, how hot did the engine get?? for how long? the problem with trailers and buses is that it is difficult to see whats going on back there, i have had flats on my tow dollie more than once without seeing it or knowing even thogh i have a camera back there, the 06 is a great bus and has given our family more than 20 yrs of fun with no big deal problems, i towed a car from North carolina to california over the mountains in summer on both sides of the country, engine never got over 180 deg. i hope you can get this worked out seems you have some wonderful people trying hard to help, im also trying to figure out what i can do to help but am striglling myself. good luck
Frank Allen 4106

Frank,

  The engine would overheat (overheat light) and I would pull over, flip the high idle toggle and let the engine cool down before I would drive again.  I don't feel like I ever pushed the engine beyond normal driving, but she did get hot many times.  Yep, the folks on this board trying to help have been beyond generous.  I hope we can get this worked out as well.  Our plan to travel and live in the bus while I did my consulting have been blown out of the water, so at this point if we can just get the bus fixed and get it home (wherever that ends up being) that alone will be a huge blessing.  Thanks for your concern Frank.  You, and folks like you, are the reason this board is so awesome.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: busshawg on February 11, 2009, 10:32:53 AM
any word on the oil sample?

grant
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 11, 2009, 11:58:06 AM
any word on the oil sample?

grant

Not yet.  The folks at Wagner are now telling me it could be 5 business days to get the results.  The sample was sent in last Friday, so if that is the case, I should hear by tomorrow COB at the latest.  As soon as I know the results, I will post them here for all to see.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Chopper Scott on February 11, 2009, 05:51:50 PM
You have us all on the edge of our seats Doug! :) By the way. I have been involved in some purchases that turned out bad a few times myself. Nothing to be ashamed of. We all tend to think everyone is just like us and wouldn't do anything shady. Everytime the individuals were confronted after my ordeals they did exactly as your seller reacted. They made confusing statements that made no sense and put blame where  I honestly knew had nothing to do with the issue. While I attend church, say my prayers and consider myself a Christian I have found that that has little to do with purchases or business dealings from similar such individuals. Some sit in the front row and still don't hear!!  :D :D Good luck on the sample!!! Later
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 11, 2009, 06:14:36 PM
You have us all on the edge of our seats Doug! :) By the way. I have been involved in some purchases that turned out bad a few times myself. Nothing to be ashamed of. We all tend to think everyone is just like us and wouldn't do anything shady. Everytime the individuals were confronted after my ordeals they did exactly as your seller reacted. They made confusing statements that made no sense and put blame where  I honestly knew had nothing to do with the issue. While I attend church, say my prayers and consider myself a Christian I have found that that has little to do with purchases or business dealings from similar such individuals. Some sit in the front row and still don't hear!!  :D :D Good luck on the sample!!! Later

Amen to that Brother.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: steve5B on February 12, 2009, 06:08:04 AM


    Doug, why wasn't the oil sample taken to Speedco?  As mentioned be for, the results would have taken only a few minutes.

    Steve 5B......
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 12, 2009, 07:26:16 AM


    Doug, why wasn't the oil sample taken to Speedco?  As mentioned be for, the results would have taken only a few minutes.

    Steve 5B......

Steve,

  I was trying to not spend any more money and the sample kit included the analysis at Wagner.  The folks who helped me out had already been very generous and paid for all of this (the kit and their time) out of their pocket ( I have to send them a check for their time and the kit).  The son who drew the sample lived in the area of Wagner so driving there wasn't a hassle for him.  I didn't figure five days would kill this thing since Dallas can't even get to where the bus is until the first week of March or so.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 13, 2009, 07:22:08 AM
Hey Doug, I got Zimtok to send me a pdf of the 6-71 series engine....not your engine but close and it will help get you more familiar with the cooling system/hub thing...http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11020.0   there is a link in his reply.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 13, 2009, 08:03:47 AM
Hey Doug, I got Zimtok to send me a pdf of the 6-71 series engine....not your engine but close and it will help get you more familiar with the cooling system/hub thing...http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11020.0   there is a link in his reply.

Excellent.  Thank you sir!
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 16, 2009, 07:14:10 AM
Well, the oil sample results are finally in.  It aint good news folks.  See attachment.  In a nutshell there is glycol in the oil and the iron is very high, indicating the oil was last change around the jurassic period.  I suppose that is sort of good news at least it shows me no malicious intent to hide something by changing the oil just before I picked it up, although it confirms that this bus was maintained with little to no care.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Old4103 on February 16, 2009, 09:04:31 AM
g'morning Doug....

I've taken the liberty of changing the OA from a PDF to a JPG so it's easier for others to see.

Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 16, 2009, 09:33:57 AM
g'morning Doug....

I've taken the liberty of changing the OA from a PDF to a JPG so it's easier for others to see.



Mornin' Dallas.  Thank you sir.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Old4103 on February 16, 2009, 09:34:24 AM
OK, That's done.

The oil analysis is subject to interpretation, and since the oil wasn't warm or freshly churned up when the sample was taken, and there is no baseline history of the oil analysis, there is some room for leeway......

However....

With a viscosity of 13, I've got a feeling that the engine was overheated many times, or the oil that was used was whatever junk the PO could find at the Dollar Store for 59¢/quart.

The Iron levels are within acceptable tolerances, however, I would be concerned about piston scuffing with the use of the wrong oil. Iron could also be caused by rust in the cooling system from running too low a level of antifreeze.

Copper Content is a bit high in my opinion, considering the condition of the rest of the engine, meaning bearings or injector tubes are worn or leaking. This could also indicate the radiator is flaking from the inside, (unlikely).

Chromium is acceptable, at least within the parameters of how the sample was obtained, but I would only expect worn rings, not broken ones.

Now the biggie.... Coolant in the oil.

We've all pretty much guessed that the O-rings in the head are shot, but with the other readings, it looks like it's entirely possible that the engine has one or two cracked heads. Owwwie! That's gonna hurt. there could also be a leaking oil cooler in the mix, but not likely.

Now... Bottom line...

It looks like the engine could benefit from a minor overhaul and general freshening up, along with putting the original fan back together so that it cools correctly.

I have one head gasket set, need another at the very least.
I have a blower seal kit to replace the bad ones in your blower, (Another Problem not related to the overheat).
I have an extra oil cooler element and housing that is in good shape.
I also have lots and lots of other gaskets to stop some of the leaks that DD's are famous for, along with other misc. spare parts.

What may be the show stopper is the need for a pair of heads, I don't have any.
I would also look into a set of rod and main bearings... I have a couple of sets, but don't know if they are the right over/undersize for your engine.

So far, we've had 2 donations to the Get Doug and Family back on the Road Fund, one for $50 and an other for $100. The one for $100 was withdrawn with no explanation.

If I bring the bus down here, it's going to be a long slow trip, to try to keep from doing any more damage than has already been done.



Let me know what you would like to do.

Quote
Indicator     Acceptable Levels     Engine Problem     What to Check
Silicon (Si) and
Aluminum (Al)    10 to 30 ppm    Dirt ingestion    Air intake system, oil filter plugging, oil filler cap and breather, valve covers, oil supply
Iron (Fe)    100 to 200 ppm    Wear of cylinder liner, valve and gear train, oil pump, rust in system    Excessive oil consumption, abnormal engine noise,performance problems, oil pressure, abnormal operating temperatures, stuck/broken piston rings
Chromium (CR)    10 to 30 ppm    Piston ring wear    Excessive oil blow-by and oil consumption, oil degradation
Copper (CU)    10 to 50 ppm    Bearings and bushings wear, oil cooler passivating,radiator corrosion    Coolant in engine oil, abnormal noise when operating at near stall speed
Lead (Pb)*    40 to 100 ppm    Bearing corrosion    Extended oil change intervals
Copper (CU) and
Lead (Pb)*    10 to 50 ppm    Bearing lining wear    Oil pressure, abnormal engine noise, dirt being ingested in air intake, fuel dilution, extended oil drain intervals
Aluminum (Al)    10 to 30 ppm    Piston and piston thrust bearing wear    Blow-by gases, oil consumption, power loss, abnormal engine noise
Silver and
Tin    2 to 5 ppm
10 to 30 ppm    Wear of bearings    Excessive oil consumption, abnormal engine noise, loss in oil pressure
Viscosity Change    
   Lack of lubrication    Fuel dilution, blow-by gases, oil oxidation, carburetor choke, ignition timing, injectors, injector pump, oil pressure
Water/Anti-freeze    
   Coolant leak or condensation    Coolant supply, gasket sealed, hose connection, oil filler cap and breather



Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Sojourner on February 16, 2009, 09:40:07 AM
Oil Analysis: Five Things You Didn't Know (http://www.oilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=1704)

Interpreting an Oil Analysis Report (http://www.oilanalysis.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=476)

Spectrophotometry for the Analysis of Wear Metals in Oil Samples (https://www.varianinc.com/media/sci/apps/aa010.pdf)

Sample of an ANALYTICAL RESULTS (http://www.fuelstar.co.nz/data/ReducedWearMetals0298.pdf)

Allison Transmission Oil Test (http://www.allisontransmission.com/servlet/DownloadOnDemand?ApplicationID=155&DownloadID=13)

Sample of a report (http://www.dynaseq.co.uk/sample%20oil%20wear%20check%20reports.pdf)

PPM (http://www.ppmoiltesting.com/eval1.html)

Performance Testing Program (PTP) (http://www.vhglabs.com/docs/PTP_Instructions_GENERAL_ver5.pdf)

Bob Is The Oil Guy (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/whatisoilanalysis.htm)

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: steve5B on February 16, 2009, 10:24:47 AM

   Doug,


   Looking over you analysis, the ware factor was based on a GASOLINE ENGINE  not a diesel.  I assume that is not the case.

   If you look closely it states Gasoline!  However coolant is detectable as you can see.  Also the presence of Iron is borderline

   This may not be the case because sometimes the reading of high Iron will show because the presence of Glycol.


    Steve 5B........
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 16, 2009, 11:42:17 AM
Sent you a PM Dallas.  I want to say thank you to everyone for sticking with this thread and offering so much help and encouragement.  It is appreciated more than you know.

God Bless,

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: bobofthenorth on February 16, 2009, 07:15:28 PM
Well that sux big time Doug.  The circumstances of the test dictated that the results would mean nothing more nor less than that there was or wasn't coolant in the sump.  Now you know there is. So something fairly major is wrong upstairs.  From here on is my opinion and as you well know opinions and assholes are something we all have so evaluate it on that basis.

Unless you are prepared to fix that engine "right" you are better finding a good takeout that you can afford and swapping it out.  As my recent experience should demonstrate, fixing it right could cost something north of $12k.  Its time for some serious soul searching but don't get dragged deeper and deeper into a project that you ultimately can't afford.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Chopper Scott on February 16, 2009, 08:12:45 PM
Well I'm afraid that Bob is correct in the previous post. The test apparantly showed that she has some coolant in the oil and that will probably lead to a whole new can of worms once someone opens it up.  Disappointing news indeed. If the bus was sitting in your driveway and you were as mechanically inclined as some on this board it would be an easier decision. With the bus sitting halfway across the country it makes for a hard decision to throw more good money after bad. Later
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Sojourner on February 16, 2009, 08:22:28 PM
About takeout engine...the charter bus owner who I brought my bus from...told me that they always get salvage bus with good engine brought in to remove before the salvage company scrap it for cost of scrap price. It got their fleet running again. I am would think that average charter companies do this often. BTW...while it was removing engine from scrap bus...They told me get whatever I can use. Such as dual brake control and electric water pump.

These DD will many more mile than we ever do in our life time if was taken care of properly.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 16, 2009, 09:30:04 PM
Its time for some serious soul searching but don't get dragged deeper and deeper into a project that you ultimately can't afford.


Yep, you're right.  Like I told Dallas, I should have researched owning a bus more before I sunk all this money into it.  Live and learn.  Nothing I can do now but keep it in storage.  Thanks for the reminder about how expensive this little hobby of ours can be.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 16, 2009, 09:31:00 PM
About takeout engine...the charter bus owner who I brought my bus from...told me that they always get salvage bus with good engine brought in to remove before the salvage company scrap it for cost of scrap price. It got their fleet running again. I am would think that average charter companies do this often. BTW...while it was removing engine from scrap bus...They told me get whatever I can use. Such as dual brake control and electric water pump.

These DD will many more mile than we ever do in our life time if was taken care of properly.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

Thanks Gerald.  I'll keep that in mind when the time comes to try to fix her.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 16, 2009, 09:33:20 PM
Well I'm afraid that Bob is correct in the previous post. The test apparantly showed that she has some coolant in the oil and that will probably lead to a whole new can of worms once someone opens it up.  Disappointing news indeed. If the bus was sitting in your driveway and you were as mechanically inclined as some on this board it would be an easier decision. With the bus sitting halfway across the country it makes for a hard decision to throw more good money after bad. Later

Indeed.  Nothing I can do about it but keep it in storage and maybe some day get back to trying to get it fixed.  Certainly not going to give it away and lose everything.  I'll just save up and get it fixed when I can.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Freedom Rider on February 17, 2009, 07:59:35 AM
Doug,

You have the right attitude regarding your bus. I hope that everything else works out for you and your family. I know you were really counting on this bus to provide primary housing for you guys. These have been tough economic times for a lot of people and I will pray for your family's well being.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 17, 2009, 08:54:46 AM
Doug,

You have the right attitude regarding your bus. I hope that everything else works out for you and your family. I know you were really counting on this bus to provide primary housing for you guys. These have been tough economic times for a lot of people and I will pray for your family's well being.

Thank you.  I don't feel like I have the right attitude (actually kind of angry at the PO over this whole thing, but what can you do), but maybe in time I will.  For now, I don't have any choice but to leave it in El Paso and try to get it fixed once I get back on track. 

If anyone knows a whale boat owner, I may have a 20,000 LB anchor I would let go cheap.   ::)
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 17, 2009, 09:17:41 AM
this link
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/rvs/1033996028.html
shows that with patience an inexpensive  possibly good donor engine is out there somewhere.  Also everything I have read says that these old DD are pretty tough.  Maybe you change the oil, fix the fan hub re tork the head and it gives you another 100,000.   But that's a gamble....but so is a 40 yr old bus.  Anyhow the link was to show that with time a good donor engine will show up, if I was stuck on the side of the road broke I would fix what I had and keep going, if you can save for a good engine you will really enjoy the feeling of going down the road with a known good mill.  I've got a '68 volvo wagon I rebuilt and that rig would take me to china, with a few oil changes.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: cody on February 17, 2009, 09:23:59 AM
Doug, sometimes it's easy to get caught up in the moment, you are far better now than you were just a week ago, now you have some hard evidence to base a decsion on.  Only you know what you want.  What I'd do if it were my thing is to step back and let the dust settle then tackle it with the sun out lol.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: uncle ned on February 17, 2009, 10:34:26 AM


Doug

On my first trip with my first bus. a4104 with 6/71.
 Started to Daytona Fl. for bike weekabout 100 miles out started to get hot,stoped every 100 or so miles and filled it up with water. Got to the campground and checked the oil. pulled the stick out and water ran out.

Drained the oil and it came out like gray glue.  refilled it with fresh 40 weight and drove it back to north carolina,filling it up with water every 100 or so miles.

After i got it home pulled the head off and replaced is also pulled the pan and replaced the bearings.

It is still running good.that was about 10 years ago.  handed it down to my son, and bought another with a 6v92 and v730 already transplanted into it.

uncle ned

ps it had heating problems also and got two new heads and liners,pistons and bearings, but it came home, half way running from penn.

those old detroits are tough just watch the heat guage
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: zubzub on February 17, 2009, 11:21:03 AM
That's what I mean by tough....
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 17, 2009, 12:23:21 PM
All good suggestions.  It may come down to what I can afford and how long I can just let it sit in storage.  I agree that the bottom line is that the *original* cooling system all has to go back on or the bus is never going anywhere.  That and get the right oil in the engine and the right amount of coolant back in and she might actually be usable until I could afford a new engine or the right fix (heads, gaskets, etc.).  That is a glimmer of hope, so thanks for that suggestion.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Tom Y on February 17, 2009, 07:50:09 PM
Doug, Have you looked at the BNO site? There is a GM motor and trans for 1800.00 on there. I know this may not be an option for you, but just another idea.  Tom Y 
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 17, 2009, 07:55:27 PM
Doug, Have you looked at the BNO site? There is a GM motor and trans for 1800.00 on there. I know this may not be an option for you, but just another idea.  Tom Y 

Tom, thanks for the suggestion.  I haven't seen that.  A new engine sounds great, but it isn't going to be possible right now.  I am tapped out.  I am sure it will all work itself out in the end.  For now, I am just keeping my chin up (or trying to I should say) and trusting God has a plan through all of this.  He promised us he won't give us more than we can handle.  So far, so good on that promise.

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: Sojourner on February 18, 2009, 07:47:24 AM
Tom, thanks for the suggestion.  I haven't seen that.  A new engine sounds great, but it isn't going to be possible right now.  I am tapped out.  I am sure it will all work itself out in the end.  For now, I am just keeping my chin up (or trying to I should say) and trusting God has a plan through all of this.  He promised us he won't give us more than we can handle.  So far, so good on that promise.

Doug

Amen! The good Lord is always in control! We do not know what the tomorrow to behold.

This poem offers a good perspective for us to keep in mind on these matters:

I may never see tomorrow, there's no written guarantee,
and things that happened yesterday belong to history.
I can't predict the future, I can't change the past,
I have just the present moments to treat as if they were my last.
I must use this moment wisely, for soon it will pass away,
And be lost forever as a part of yesterday.
I may not have another chance on bended knees to pray,
And I thank God with a humble heart for giving me this day.

~~Author unknown~~
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

BTW...I learn later from your posts that is had modified cooling fan set-up. No wonder.

The good Lord will find you whatever you need to be rolling again...we just need to wait on Him and one day at a time in whatever we do.
You will glad you did.
I know there an runable DD engine somewhere near by or whatever. It work for me everytime, if I just wait on Him.
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: travelingfools on February 18, 2009, 09:42:34 AM
Its time for some serious soul searching but don't get dragged deeper and deeper into a project that you ultimately can't afford.


Yep, you're right.  Like I told Dallas, I should have researched owning a bus more before I sunk all this money into it.  Live and learn.  Nothing I can do now but keep it in storage.  Thanks for the reminder about how expensive this little hobby of ours can be.

Just got down to reading this thread this morning... Once again another great showing from our family here. Just wanted to add my own opinion on the $$$ end of owning/converting a bus. When I first got the bug to move from a S&S to a bus, I was cautioned by many here that owning a bus was a big dollar adventure and that if I couldn't afford it, that I may want to rethink owning one. That is about the only advice I got here that I disregarded and I'm glad I did ( Ive direguarded other advice and was of course sorry..sucks being a hard head). We took out a loan, got a bus and haven't looked back. Myself, and as Ive learned others here, are on the pay as you go plan re: our bus ownership. If I blew my engine today out of town, Id be in the same situation that you are, however, the time spent starting my conversion and the great times we had last year in it with my family has been more than worth the money. Sounds like your in a better state of mind (a lot less stressed) now than you were in the beginning. I'm also a firm believer in everything happening for a reason. I was glad to read about how you eventually found the humor in pulling into a campground missing a tire.. When things get so bad here that I'm ready to pull my hair, its usually some sort of humor that starts us back on track..that and of course a lot of prayer. So I guess the gist of my post is that you are not the only one in the financial position your in that owns a bus. I just wish I had done it 20 years ago..
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 18, 2009, 02:02:33 PM
Its time for some serious soul searching but don't get dragged deeper and deeper into a project that you ultimately can't afford.


Yep, you're right.  Like I told Dallas, I should have researched owning a bus more before I sunk all this money into it.  Live and learn.  Nothing I can do now but keep it in storage.  Thanks for the reminder about how expensive this little hobby of ours can be.

I just wish I had done it 20 years ago..

One of the exact reasons we did this now and not 20 years from now.  I want my children to remember this time of their lives and remember the adventures with the bus *positively*.  It makes me sick to think the fun was over before it began so I am holding out hope for......not exactly sure.  All I know is that I want to do the bus thing while the kids are young and not once they are all grown and gone.  I appreciate your insight and wisdom.  We had some *other* reasons for buying the bus as well, but can't go into that right now. 

Looks like we are on the same page except I don't like to finance anything (kind of a necessity but that is an even longer subject that I am not boring anyone here with).

God Bless,

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: REK on February 19, 2009, 07:29:00 AM
Doug:

Admittedly, I am somewhat warped due to my upbringing and occupation but  .    .   .   It seems to me that 1) You have the bus; 2) You have an idea of what it will take to get it back on the road and 3) With the right perspective i.e. your trust in god, this whole experience (and the ones to come) will be fun and educational for your kids (and you, but every time I learn something new around my girls I say it is for them ! )

On another topic:  I wanted to thank you for the quote at the bottom of your postings (Insert Technical Term Here).  A couple of days ago my daughter asked me why my wife and I were writing our Congressmen when we both agreed that given their political persuasion, they were not going to look out for their constituents.  I used Edmund Burke’s quote to explain that we believe in doing what is right, regardless of the consequences.

Thank you,
Bus Not (Yet) but still trying to learn,
Rick
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 19, 2009, 08:35:58 AM
Doug:

Admittedly, I am somewhat warped due to my upbringing and occupation but  .    .   .   It seems to me that 1) You have the bus; 2) You have an idea of what it will take to get it back on the road and 3) With the right perspective i.e. your trust in god, this whole experience (and the ones to come) will be fun and educational for your kids (and you, but every time I learn something new around my girls I say it is for them ! )

On another topic:  I wanted to thank you for the quote at the bottom of your postings (Insert Technical Term Here).  A couple of days ago my daughter asked me why my wife and I were writing our Congressmen when we both agreed that given their political persuasion, they were not going to look out for their constituents.  I used Edmund Burke’s quote to explain that we believe in doing what is right, regardless of the consequences.

Thank you,
Bus Not (Yet) but still trying to learn,
Rick


Rick,

  Thank you for your insight.  Yep, we have the bus (sort of) and for now, I think we are just going to sit on this whole thing.  We have way more going on right now than the bus and although I wish we had it right now to use, we don't, so all we can do is trust that things will work out.  As for my quote, the lack of good men doing the right thing is exactly why this world is so screwed up.  So as long as good men do nothing (or the wrong thing which is just as bad), evil will triumph.  You keep doing what you know is right.  If more people would do that, we just might turn this ship onto the right tack.

God Bless,

Doug
Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: BigDougInOregon on February 19, 2009, 08:55:26 AM
Updated Oil Sample with corrected engine type.  Wagner Equipment caught it and sent it to me.

Title: Re: Update from Doug with the PD4106
Post by: mountain goat on July 11, 2010, 12:07:12 AM
Did Doug ever get his 4106 running?