BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: luvrbus on September 22, 2010, 05:37:54 PM
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Guys I want a new lap top and the BS with MS I am thinking of buying a Apple any pros and con from you guys on a Apple.
MS has stopped all support for Vista can't even buy support now so I am fed up with MS give me your opinions on Apple no way will I pay MS for the windows 7 to upgrade their screw up.
You guys can move this to another section but I would like some feed back before it is moved thanks
good luck
pissed in Mohave AZ
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Long as its OT, what about Linux? I keep asking people, no one seems to know much. Kinda sick and tired of all the support programs running in the background that no one has a clue what they are and why you need them. Shouldnt need 2 Gigs of ram just to operate the operating system.
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I've never owned or operated an Apple, but from what I hear is that some programs will not work on the Apple machine. They are great for pictures and media files, but lack in other areas. Someone who has one may know different, it's like the Ford Chevy thing.
What is wrong with yours? I have MS Vista Business, and do not have any issues with it. It seems that often upgrades are made that are not needed and really can mess things up. I only download upgrades when I pick them, not what MS says to.
You might try gong back on a Restore Point where you know it was working like you want it.
Most any computer you buy will have issues that the operator needs to work out, it's the nature of technology these days.
Paul
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don't really think this is off topic..we need to know what will work in our buses or boats..is one system more capable than the other in remote locations.? able to operate direct sat connection? I have no problem with MS..not familiar at all with apple..following this discussion with intrest.
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luvrbus;
Dreamscape speaks the truth. Some people think they have to download everything they want you too. Don't. Only what you need (Custom) Also if you go into all these share friendship sites and everything about yourself sites you will have a lot of problems because there are all kinds of virus, worms Trojan etc that you will suck into your system that will slow it down and freeze it at times or take away some file that you needed to run said program?
I still use XL professional and update when needed. I have very little if any problems. If you do a lot of creative things, Art work ,Picture taking and adjusting or movie making then apple has some really good programs but you have to buy theirs only at their prices.
If you are into business and figures, accounting, writing, publishing, then PC is the way to go but you can get programs from a lot more sources for PC at lower pricing than Apple. Apple claims they have less hacking and viruses but that's because there are less out there that have them, and Hackers don't care.
My wife has "Windows 7", which has had a very few problems and after the 2 updates it as had no problems.It does have some problems with linking up to old programs but only really old ones.FWIW
Dave
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being a Microsoft Certified System Engineer for the last 10 years (aren't you all impressed!) and a business consultant in the computers and networks area, i feel compelled to weigh in.
Apples are getting better, with more programs, more options and more power supporters than ever. PC users are usually ok with what they use, but Apple Folks get downright irritable if you make any negative comments.
you need to figure out what you use a computer for. email and web browsing will work on either Apple or a PC. specific map and gps programs won't. adobe pdf's can be read in either type. both have options for reading books, storing files, writing letters. Apple does not have the business type software at reasonable prices, but you probably don't care about business anything. Both will talk on the Internet and have great programs for music, pictures and so on. apple support is good, if you can find it in a smaller town. there is almost always a pc expert in every town, usually less expensive than the apple expert.
Don't believe the hype about apples can't be hacked or infected. right now, there's just not enough of them to make it worthwhile for most hackers. but they are infectable and hackable if unprotected.
there's also a fair amount of Microsoft under Apple's hood.
some apple person is bound to ask, have you ever worked on Apples. Yes. but i don't claim to be an expert. i do know the trouble my customer had with her 3rd apple system, her upgrade, her training problems. but she is still very happy with an apple and just bought an iphone, then newest one. and she's 75 or so.
in my opinion, Vista upgrades to Win7 should be free as an apology from Microsoft for selling Vista in the first place. i still like xp because it does everythign i need, and i don't need an upgrade to do anything i do better on Win7. but i do use windows 7 because i'm expected to know how to support it.
Linux is for computer experts. yes you can buy a Linux and it will work fine. for a while. but if it doesn't you're really scrooged. for example. i had an extra Linux based netbook which i gave my son whose very good at computers. when he set up his wireless and locked it down, the linux wouldn't work. after researching it for a few weeks and trying various updates, upgrades and suggestions he found on the web, he wiped the disk and loaded XP. Linux is not for the faint of heart, non-expert.
Everything Dave said is correct and i agree with. and as he siad about his comments, apply to mine. they are fwiw. call me if you need help with the sale persons jargon or you want to discuss what you need before you go to bestbuy or call dell. then call me after they tell you what they have and i'll give you my opinion on whether you were over or undersold. sometimes those guys sell you a bus without wheels and you find out later they are extra. Dell has a habit of leaving off certain Intel features in order to "save money". they use Intel wireless cards, but you get the cheapo dell software with it. imho.
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luvrbus,
I have used PCs running the various varieties of Windows for years. Last year I bought my first Apple - a MacBook. Since then I have bought two MacBook Pros (one for the wife and one for the eldest child). I prefer the Apples, but like others have mentioned I view the PC/Mac debate more like the Chevy/Ford or MCI/Prevost debates. I really do not have any major problems running programs. I have installed Microsoft Office for Mac on all of the Apples and easily use all Word, Excel, and PowerPoint documents. Office for Mac uses Entourage instead of Outlook, but still I have no issues with my e-mail - I use the Apple mail application for my personal e-mail and Entourage for my work e-mail (it synchs better with the work Exchange server).
One area where Mac is superior to Windows is with pictures and videos. I use the programs that came standard with the machines and do not really need more.
I guess I am a little different when it comes to my computer usage. In addition to using Macs, I use Google Chrome for my Internet browser. I do experience issues with Chrome on some sites, but all I have to do is open Safari, Firefox, or Internet Explorer (in that order of preference - I do not have many issues with Windows XP, but I really, really do not like Explorer).
It does take some time to get used to using a Mac. If you have specific questions about Apple I would be happy to try to provide you a good answer.
Brian
P.S. - I will be in Tampa next week and I am looking forward to visiting the Apple Store at International Plaza.
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Tom, I have a old HP with XP that has never been a problem but one time and it was caused by service pack 2 but the HP died and the Toshiba with Vista has been a nightmare with each one blaming the problems on the other and today I just got fed up and told MS and Toshiba were they could stick it.
I am going to order the Mac they cost a little more than a MS based system.
I do know Apple is a very popular lap top in Europe all our friends over there have one and love the Mac.
Me I am just tried of the BS from MS, they should have kept DOS I have a old system with LOTUS 123 in DOS best spread sheet ever made IMHO you can keep MS Excel to me it sucks
good luck and thanks
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you need to figure out what you use a computer for email and web browsing will work on either Apple or a PC. specific map and gps programs won't.
[SNIP]
Linux is for computer experts. yes you can buy a Linux and it will work fine. for a while. but if it doesn't you're really scrooged. for example. i had an extra Linux based netbook which i gave my son whose very good at computers.
First of all, yes: What are you going to do with your machine? Basic web browsing, edit your bus pictures, listen to MP3's, word processing? Any of the systems will work.
I am NOT a Microsoft-certified engineer: Just a Microsoft very frustrated user. I have worked with Microslop products since MS DOS 2.11, long before Windows existed. I use WindowsXP on both desktop and laptop. Windows Vista was cow extract. Windows 7, a big improvement in some areas and disappointment in others. (I just set up my daughter's Compaq All-In-One with Windows 7.)
I also just set up my wife's Imac with the latest operating system from Apple. She loves it. I hate it. Our son is 100% Apple: He is a musician, and they prefer Apples for their work.
As far as Linux goes, in the past, it was for the geeks. Not any more. I especially like Ubuntu Linux (See http://www.ubuntu.com/ (http://www.ubuntu.com/). And no: You do NOT buy it: It is legally free. The forums are awesome. Every once in a while you get a hiccup (as you do with ANY operating system). Post your problem on the forums, and usually within hours you have a solution. Try that with Windows! You can download Ubuntu for free and run it off a Live CD or a USB drive on your current system without changing anything.
I use Ubuntu 10.04 on my Acer Aspire One mini-laptop, my desktop and our home file server. I love it! You never have to worry about buying an anti-virus program. You can have a fully-working laptop or desktop system without spending a penny. You can install Ubuntu on your present messed-up laptop.
Also, many people don't know about the legally FREE MS Office substitute called www.OpenOffice.org (http://www.OpenOffice.org). It is available for all the operating systems we mention here for free download.
Hope you get some ideas from all of us crazy busnuts!
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luvrbus;
Mine is a Toshiba Satellite L-25 with XP Pro on it and it is wonderful.
Thats the problem; You have Vista on it.
Wipe the disk clean, re-format and find a copy of XP Professional and load it and then update it and Wa-La the perfect system.
Hey White Eagle High Five I knew we could draw the Apple Guys out in the open. :D LOL
Dave
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Tom and Dave where do get the software to change from Vista I understand at least I think I do you cannot upgrade Vista with windows 7 ? one shop wanted 300 bucks for the change over I am not going to spend that for a MS mistake or a Toshiba who's ever problem it is both have customers service reps that are jerks and don't speak English.
I would try the upgrade but not for 300 bucks maybe 100 bucks.
good luck
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I consider myself very fortunate to have gone from XP to Win7, completely skipping over Vista. I am very pleased with 7.
At about the same time as I bought my new machine, my wife bought a MAC (for about twice as much money). It works fine but there are some issues and I think she will soon replace it again with a PC.
She was sold a bill of goods by the Apple sales people that the Mac word processor and spreadsheet programs were fully compatible with MS.
They will indeed open Word and Excel programs but they are saved as Mac. If you send them to a MS user, they cannot be opened. You have the option to save as Word or Excel, but the next time you open the program, it reverts to Mac.
Very embarrassing if you are sending a resume or sales proposal and forget to "save as" every time. I know you can buy Office for Mac, but the sales guy was misleading or simply didn't know.
Additionally, there are hundreds, if not thousands of programs, especially the smaller, cheaper stuff, that is not available for Mac. Some websites will not work with the Mac browser and I had to install Firefox for her to use them. Particularly anything that uses Adobe Flash.
I think that if it were not for the very big hit you take on a used computer, she would trade today for a PC.
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Clifford,
You asked for advice on Apples, so I will give it. I would say GO FOR IT!!!!!
Personally I think you will love it. The operating system is a bit different. However, the biggest advantage that I see, is they are much more of a "clean" feeling. They are more streamlined. In my family, we use both. Those that have Apples, swear that they will die with their Apples. Those that have regular old PC's, then they are just maybe OK with them, not happy.
Apple has one of the best support I have ever seen and spoken with. They have excellent classes to get you started on the Apples.
I would recommend a MacBook pro. A regular Macbook has a plastic case. I like the pro, because it has a metal case, and is a tougher computer.
MS 7 is okay, but again it still doesn't feel clean. It is better then Vista.
The bottom line? If you don't like MS go with Apple. I think you will love it (once you figure it out a little bit). Those who I know that have gone to Apple have never looked back. Go down to the Apple store, find somebody down there that you like working with (some are better then others, so find one that just wants to get you set up right), and play with the laptops. Play with them for a couple of hours. Go to this bus board. Post. Try out the computers. See what you think.
You decide.
God bless,
John
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I would steer clear of Gateway! Bought one and paid $400.00 for a 4 years exclusive warranty. Hard drive went out at 3 1/2 years. Guest what, they had sold the warranty to anther company that would not anser the phone. I was very clear when I asked the person at Gateway, "Let's be clear, you sold me a 4 year warranty, sold it to someone else who won't fix it, you won't fix it, but you would gladly sell me another Gateway?"
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Hi luvrbus,
We have a Dell lap top at home with Vista and it has been a piece of crap since new, 2 years. When my wife took a new job in a different school district, she is a speech pathologist, they gave her a new Apple lap top. She likes it so much that she ordered a new Mac Book Pro last week for home use. She is the computer person in the family so I can't offer any other information.
Good luck, Sam MC8
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LVRB:
$300.00 is a pretty good price for the changeover, unless you can get a copy of XP PRO from a friend that is generic and can still be loaded with their code key. Some machines once they came wit Vista you could not go back to previous versions. But if you buy an Apple you will pay a lot more than trying to change it back to a good system.
Again it all depends on what you do with it.
Dave
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Mex,
I've tried the Ubuntu on my Acer Aspire mini like you have. I love it. It is quick and very user friendly. Right now, I have it installed on an 8 gig thumbdrive. Unfortunately, between me and the future Mrs., we have Lexmark all in one printer/scanners. Lexmark is not too keen on drivers for Linux. So until another set of printers comes along, I'm pretty much stuck. The Acer does pretty much all I need, including office programs as well as Internet. I'm going to be on the lookout for used printer/scanner combos from offices that go out of business. A lot of corporations and mall businesses have used Linux based software, so it makes sense that drivers are available for the hardware.
-Doug
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We have Lexmark all in one printer/scanners. Lexmark is not too keen on drivers for Linux. -Doug
Doug:
With Linux, there is always a way. The program you need is called Turboprint. it will allow Linux to use just about any printer designed for Windows. You can download it free and see if it works for you. http://www.turboprint.info/ (http://www.turboprint.info/)
Now, about the future Mrs.: be forewarned, they are VERY expensive... but well worth it! ;D
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They surely cost a lot more than a Mac :)
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Len,
She already has a Mac, (Which I like). Now she want's a "Mr.". :D
As for the other angle of this discussion:
I travel. My advice: Durability of computer first, as in abuse from vibration and occasional hits. Operating system was my second priority. (Hence no movable hard drive on mine, but that is extreme.)
I haven't looked at the current crop of PC's and netbooks lately. But if you like Mac, and can find one that is geared toward school children and the abuse it would take, I would travel with it. My Acer seems to have held up pretty well, as did my Toshiba. Toshiba's support was outstanding too, but that was 10 years ago. Now I don't trust anyone's customer support. Those brands (Mac, Acer, Toshiba, and possibly Asus) will be the first to consider should a "big screen" or home based system become necessary.
I'll just keep Linux as a back-up operating system then. I no longer trust "factory warranties" on software or hardware of any type. Heck, mine cost $300.00. Will last me about as long as some of the more expensive machines billed with "customer service" as a marketing tool.
-Doug
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I've been in computers since I fixed my first one in sixth grade, now I work in the industry (one of the major graphics manufacturers). I just wanted to put this idea out there...
...You need to figure out what you use a computer for. email and web browsing will work on either Apple or a PC. specific map and gps programs won't. adobe pdf's can be read in either type. both have options for reading books, storing files, writing letters. Apple does not have the business type software at reasonable prices, but you probably don't care about business anything. Both will talk on the Internet and have great programs for music, pictures and so on. apple support is good, if you can find it in a smaller town. there is almost always a pc expert in every town, usually less expensive than the apple expert...
There are some camps that believe that the traditional PC is coming to an end (take Google for example). You can do viewing and basic manipulation of all of the above bold items on smart phones now, and in the future it should get even easier.
Think about it: You need email access, voice comminication, text messages, the ability to view web-apges, open documents for viewing (editing word, excel, powerpoint is not readily available... yet), play music, get navigation and points of interest... you can do all of this with just about any smartphone (iPhone, Android, Blackberry) now. Do you, and if so "why", need a full PC to do what you want to do? and if the argument is that you want a bigger screen, look at the iPad or tablet devices coming out - and it you want a keyboard, they make wireless keyboards...
They are tough, low energy, and getting wicked fast (some high-end smart devices are surpassing low-end PCs for about the same cost).
Just my two cents...
-Tim
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Thanks guys I ordered the Mac/pro 13 inch,2.66GHz,4gm,500gb hard drive, I went with the 13 inch for the 10 hours of battery time will let you know how I like it.
good luck
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LVB,
Welcome to the dark side! You are going to really enjoy Mac once you learn our way around it.
Brian S.
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I for one will be waiting for a report on how he likes it!
Maybe it'll be like the Verizon ATT thing! (inside joke) ;D
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Whew, Clifford.
Your mind was made up ;D. You know what? I think you will love that thing. Get Apple care on it, and your worries are down the drain. I love the MacBook pros. I think you will to. Just give yourself time to learn it. Call support whenever you need to. Don't worry about asking them, or anybody, questions that you think are dumb. They have heard everything.
I think you will learn it quickly, and I doubt you will ever consider turning back.
Allow me to be the first one to officially say CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!
Welcome to the free world. LOL And btw, Mac's never die....they just get a little soft after about ten years.
God bless,
John
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I guess I'm lucky, I've got a laptop with vista that I bought at walmarts black friday sale for peanuts a while back, it's still running great, I do the regular maintenace on it like normal, and it just keeps ticking away, dallas tipped me off on GPS cause my speedometer needs a doctor on the bus, it's very unreliable, it not only reads off but now and then the needle takes a ride around the dial just cause it knows it pisses me off, so the laptop with the GPS on it shows me what my actual speed is, only time anyone questioned me was when I got pulled over for a tail light being burnt out and the officer commented on he hopes I'm not chatting on it while driving cause the laptop was sitting on the dash and the GPS was running, I reassured him that no chatting goes on while I drive, that I use the laptop only for porn, he laughed and left lol.
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I second John's, Apple Care recommendation. It gives you telephone help for 3 years and, IMO, a higher level of customer service. If you have easy access to an Apple store sign up for their one-to-one classes they are very helpful to get your head wrapped around the Apple way.
Enjoy your Apple.
Mike
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I've been an Apple man since the SE days (20 years ago) but have worked on PCs when I have to and hate it.
Apple is by far the easiest computer you will ever own. MS has tried to imitate it for 17 years and will never get it right...
But the foremost thing you have to understand is that you cannot run everything you want (unless you use boot camp which is just booting up in Windows then you can run anything you want but it comes at the cost of having to run MS >:(
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Clifford,
I'm sure you're going to enjoy the new toy. In the mean time if you will PM me I will give you my mailing address & be glad to dispose of that old machine for you. And no i won't charge anything! :-*
John
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the computer manufacturer posts updates on their website that often can make a huge difference when it comes to operating problems. ALWAYS start at the support section for your computer model & see if there Re any updates that might apply. I bought a touch screen HP (my last HP purchase I promise you), that suffered the "blue screen of death" repeatedly from the time I purchased it. The longer I used it, the worse it got, necessitating me to constantly save every file to another computer or USB drive as a backup. Numerous calls to HP to talk to their foreign, barely fluent tech support got me nowhere as they blamed the programs I had installed and Windows, while I tried to explain that Quickbooks, Office, except are common programs installed on MANY pc's, yada yada.
Finally, I searched the Internet, finding numerous similar complaints and a suggested solution that this brand new, out of the box laptop, was basically unusable until the HP updates were installed. Now, when you register a brand new computer, could they not inform you that there are very important updates you need immediately (or better yet, have the computer automatically go & find them & install them)? How about, AT THE VERY LEAST, tell the support staff about them? Why should I have had to research it online, find a computer forum and learn about it that way?
Otoh, I use a laptop, a netbook, an Ipad AND have a smartphone, and I really would not be able to use any of these as my "only" device. None does it all well, probably I could dump the net book, but it sure is handy for carrying with me, but too small for work....it will do all I need, but just too small of a screen for a lot of tasks...primarily I use it when I travel...the Ipad is absolutely awesome but won't BEGIN to do all that I need...and the inability to run flash is a bigger handicap than some would have you believe, trust me. The smartphones are awesome...I was able to access my father-in-law's medication list, the POA, (important for allowing them to talk to me about his condition and me to make decisions), check my e-mail & stay in constant contact by text w/one of the daughters who was out of town during this last crisis, all from my phone. Cloud computing is most certainly the future, have no doubt. But laptops are going to be around for a long time too, IMHO, Christy Hicks
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My wife just got her new MacBook Pro on Monday. I am just loving it. It is so much faster than our old Dell/Windows Vista it is a joy to use. I was surprised that I was able to catch on to it's use so easily. i commented to our friend who is a retired high school computer teacher about liking the Mac and she said that "Once you have Mac, you will never go back", I agree. Clifford, how are you liking your new Mac?
Good luck, Sam MC8
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I get mine today Sam will let you know tonight
good luck
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My daughters and wife own the i-phone, I-pod and the I-pad. The only thing that I don't like about any of them is that Apple does not do any out of warranty repairs. You buy a new one if it fails out of warranty. I was told this when the i-pod bit the dust and was out of warranty. I still use the PC and Windows XP since most industrial machines rely on the PC for Diagnostics and set up
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Do many of you use Mozilla firefox as your browser?
Solves all that Internet Explorer issues.
Cliff
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Do many of you use Mozilla firefox as your browser?
Solves all that Internet Explorer issues.
Cliff
I use Firefox, it is far superior to IE. I believe that security is better in it too. I especially like that when I close it down, it remembers all my tabs, so I don't have to try and remember what all I was looking at last time I was on.
Mike
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Guys playing with my MacBook tonight I really believe in the computer gods now "I LOVE THE MAC" love it love it best thing to me since sliced bread.
Only problem it will cost me the wife loves it's also lol
good luck
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Guys playing with my MacBook tonight I really believe in the computer gods now "I LOVE THE MAC" love it love it best thing to me since sliced bread.
Only problem it will cost me the wife loves it's also lol
good luck
This past summer, I went down to the Mac store and bought two of them, laptop and the big mac for my office. I just got so tired of Microsoft and all the crap NOT working. Donated the old one to a church. There was of course, a little matrimonial flack because of this and had to buy the wife a computer recently, but she was easy to please, all she wanted was "a pink one." (she got a Dell if anyone wonders?)
Go figure ...
BCO