BCM Community
Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Melbo on August 31, 2011, 01:02:19 PM
-
Got an odd situation with my L10 and looking for a mechanic before next week.
I can get it taken care of then but would like something sooner.
Any suggestions??
Thanks
Melbo
-
Melbo
Just sent you a PM
-
Thanks Larry -- I seem to have an intermittent turbo problem. I lost an oil line and dumped a bunch of oil -- replaced the lines and now the turbo MOSTLY works but then I will get a spell with LOTS of white smoke and what seems like raw fuel -- no rhyme or reason to it and Cummins Rocky Mountain can't fit me in til Tuesday after the holiday (I know patience is a virtue but not one I have)--- I would like to be in Colorado by then so I tried to make a break for it and it didn't go well --- I am at an RV park in Albuquerque for now. Looking for options and / or solutions.
Thanks
Melbo
-
Isn't a turbo boost gauge "standard equipment"? If you don't have one of those you might consider installing one while you wait. Might keep you from being bamboozeled by a shop. I always thought it would be nice to see a turbine failure coming.
One "rule" is always go to what you touched last to find your current problem. I guess that takes you to the turbo but you seem to be there already.
If your oiling problem has damaged the turbo I can only think that the damage would be to the bearings. If there is any bearing damage then you have the distinct possibility of turbine failure and shrapnel from the compressor side. I guess with a intercooler the shrapnel wouldn't be that big a problem like in the DD 2 stroke. If the turbine wheel fails on either side might it not take out the turbine housing and void it's exchange value?
You might try asking the board for the availability of a used turbine replacement and the best deal and location on a rebuilt.
I read long ago that a bad or failing turbine was detectable by simply spinning the wheel with your finger. It should spin like a Swiss watch....free and easy and free wheel a long time. Also, end play was really important. Can't you lift any of the 4 hose connections to the turbo and get access to the wheel(s)? I have not a single number or measurement for you.....sorry. Just spit ball'n a little and I ran out of saliva way back at the start of this reply.
Good luck on this,
John
-
JohnEd, while you make a point about the after cooler on a DD just passing info for you most of the L10 are after cooler equipped,I don't know if Mel has changed his or not to a air to air
good luck
-
Just for information -- IF the oil to the turbo stopped when I lost my oil line (my guess of what happened here) that would explain the intermittent operation of the turbo. I had the turbo replaced by Cummins after I had the engine installed. The original air cleaner fed directly into the turbo after lots of turns and connections so I removed the twists and turns and installed a new air filter that feed right into the turbo. Immediately after the turbo is an exhaust brake two elbows and a muffler. Sometimes when driving everything is normal and sometimes not so I have postponed being on the road til I am sure it will operate as it is supposed to.
HTH
Melbo
-
Be sure I don't know for certain....I don't think a turbo is one of those devices/mechanisms that can be intermittent. They either put out the psi or they seize up or they disintegrate. Now that exhaust brake is a completely different story. It is supposed to screw the pooch on command and then go back to free flow. I sure would be wiring that open to eliminate it as a possibility and it would be wired open when I gave it to the shop to figure out......why waste their time eliminating stuff. Exhaust leaks mess up a turbo way more than they should if they are in front of the turbo. :P
Just some thoughts.
John
-
Well tomorrow morning at 10 am I have an appointment with Cummins Rocky Mountain Diagnostic Guru not that I don't appreciate the input from this forum just that I GOTTA get this done right and even with good coaching I'm not sure I am capable. I will keep you posted on the results.
Melbo
-
Melbo, did Gary use air to air or leave it a after cooler setup on yours he does it both ways I was just wondering about yours
good luck
-
There is no cooler on my system just air cleaner, turbo, exhaust brake and then the muffler. He wanted to remove one of my radiators but I wouldn't let him --- did not want ANY overheating issues after the old motor shut downs.
Melbo
-
Melbo, that is interesting I never saw a L10 without a after cooler and I have helped a few remove it and installed a air to air,is your a China made L10 ? I wonder what that engine came from
good luck
-
I've never seen one without an aftercooler either, On some of the early models, the cooler wasn't as obvious. A turbo either works or it doesn't, the exhaust brake concerns me more than anything else. I've always considered those to be turbo killers, turbos and backpressure don't play well together. A compression brake would be the better setup.
-
From what I understand (I just had the engine installed I didn't buy it first) the ZF and L10 came from a bus. I have installed a larger Trans cooler and set up the retarder to slow me down rather than the exhaust brake. The exhaust brake is a Blue Ox and it is very obvious when it is engaged. I only use it on long down hill grades however I may not need it now with the retarder. I will take a picture and post it of the setup when I get it back from the shop -- I might have been a little concerned about the set up but it was done by Gary and Dan and ran fine and then I had Cummins check it out and they resized the turbo and installed the new one. If there was anything they didn't like they didn't tell me about it.
Melbo
-
Jakes were never real popular on a L10 till towards the end on the early ones they would bend or break the rods,ask the guy at Cummins if you have a aftercooler that one puzzles me lol
good luck
-
Here is a picture of my set up -- air filter on the right turbo -- exhaust brake -- and exhaust. The mechanic said it sounded good and the turbo was good. The guess is that an injector was stuck but it was working just fine when he looked at it this morning. I had a good run up to Leadville Colorado --- I thought there was some excessive smoke a couple of times BUT I am at a much higher altitude so some of that is to be expected I would guess.
Thanks for all the comments and questions -- Keeps me up to speed on what I have and how it should run.
Melbo
P.S. The mechanic thought it ran good for an antique :D ;D :o
-
You have an aftercooler, I can see the bottom edge in the photo. How does the turbo drain work? I'm not a fan of rubber hose and hot oil. Cummins has an updated metal drain line if you ever want to change it. What's your engine serial number, I'll look it up and see if it applies. Leadville is over 10K ft. I assume you went up Hwy 24, hope you brought a jacket.
-
Yep I see the aftercooler also
good luck
-
We brought jackets hats AND gloves -- we are going north to Meeker so we go over a couple of passes between here and there.
Glad to know I didn't get one of those CHINESE L10's and that indeed I do have an aftercooler.
The serial number of my engine is 34632081. Any information about it would be appreciated.
Thanks
Melbo
-
Upfit Original
Engine Serial Number 34632081
Shop Order # SO3669
Plant JEP - JAMESTOWN ENGINE PLANT
Build Date 15 Aug 1990
Upfit Original
Engine Serial Number 34632081
Shop Order # SO3669
Plant JEP - JAMESTOWN ENGINE PLANT
Build Date 15 Aug 1990
Warranty Start Date 04 Sep 1990
Customer Number 2231
Customer Name W M A T A
ECM Code Not Available For This Engine
Fuel Pump Part # 3820821
Fuel Pump Calibration X745
Film Card I
Engine Config # D343073UX02
CPL # CPL1226
Marketing Model Name LTA10-BUS (240)
Service Model Name L10
© 2000-2011 Cummins Inc., Box 3005, Columbus, IN 47202-3005 U.S.A.
Terms of Use and Disclaimers | Feedback / Help | Recommended System Requirements
Warranty Start Date 04 Sep 1990
Customer Number 2231
Customer Name W M A T A
ECM Code Not Available For This Engine
Fuel Pump Part # 3820821
Fuel Pump Calibration X745
Film Card I
Engine Config # D343073UX02
CPL # CPL1226
Marketing Model Name LTA10-BUS (240)
Service Model Name L10
© 2000-2011 Cummins Inc., Box 3005, Columbus, IN 47202-3005 U.S.A.
Terms of Use and Disclaimers | Feedback / Help | Recommended System Requirements
-
There is a metal drain tube available, it is easily looked up by ESN. If the hose is working, let it be, but if it gets stiff, it will begin to seep. JMHO
-
I have a friend Gary talked into removing a good running 8v92TA and installing one of the L10 he had the guy removed a 450 hp 8v92 and replaced it with 240 hp L10 he is a little upset with Gary to put in mildly lol we went to 270 hp and air to air charger on his helped him out a little but not much
good luck
-
That's a lot of HP to give up for a little more torque. Probably a little less RPM too.
-
I am thinking that a "inter cooler" is a heat exchanger that is installed between the turbo and engine. It can be ab=n air to air or an air to water.
The "After cooler" used in the DD is installed between the compressor(blower) and the cylinder intake. I guess the "after" part refers to the compressor.
Then the turbo happened to the D industry. Only problem was that the turbo added heat to the air when it compressed it and some of the potential benefit was lost. Rules being rules, in physics, colder air at the induction point is worth lots of power and efficiency. So they got their heads together and added a device to further drop the air temp to the stock DD 2 stroke. First heat exchanger is called the "Inter-cooler" and the second heat exchanger is the "After cooler".
Is there a rule that says XXX degrees above ambient and your COOLING of the charge air is sufficient.
Does this sound right?
John
-
John I don't know about all that stuff I know if it works or if it doesn't and I try really hard not to change stuff that is working and and just keep it the same. The best I do is to have someone replace what isn't working or fix it so it does what it is supposed to do.
I replace an 8V71 that was dying with this L10 so instead of worse than 265 hp I got somewhere around 275 hp not much of a bump up BUT it quit over heating leaking oil and I added an automatic trans. For me it was a good improvement and now my girlfriend drives it some too SO EVERYONE is happy. Gary did a good job on my install and I can understand how someone would not be happy with LESS power instead of more even if it quit overheating.
Melbo
-
L10's are fine engines. They were never powerhouses, but they are dependable, they get decent mileage and are fairly easy to work on. Some early 90's models were equipped with STC, CAC and mechanical fuel systems, these would make 280 HP and could reach 300 without much effort.
-
John I don't know about all that stuff I know if it works or if it doesn't and I try really hard not to change stuff that is working and and just keep it the same. The best I do is to have someone replace what isn't working or fix it so it does what it is supposed to do.
I replace an 8V71 that was dying with this L10 so instead of worse than 265 hp I got somewhere around 275 hp not much of a bump up BUT it quit over heating leaking oil and I added an automatic trans. For me it was a good improvement and now my girlfriend drives it some too SO EVERYONE is happy. Gary did a good job on my install and I can understand how someone would not be happy with LESS power instead of more even if it quit overheating.
Melbo
I am with you on all this. How rarely we get "everyone happy" at the same time.
I lust to learn how it works. Took my first clock apart while a 4 Th grader and from that i graduated to a small slot machine. Had never held a screwdriver to that point in life. Took me a week to get both running again. The clock came out of a trash heap and was rusty inside. The slot from my Aunts attic and had quit 20 years prior. Given you use of the technical term "that stuff" you don't have much of a passion for matters mechanical. That's OK as probably 90 percent of the population shares your level of enthusiasm and most are loved by someone and almost all do a good job at life. If I owned a bus, probably the only thing that would limit my tinkering would be my wallet and having something less than cat-like agility any more. We are different and accept that each, I hope.
Please don't hear me suggesting you modify your bus in any way. Not happening. My words were only for those that cared and found interest in those subjects.
Great the L10 worked out for you. There is one running around in a 4106 in a "T" configuration and i heard it gets 15 MPG. He is exactly like you. He got fed up with the overheating tired 8V71 and converted to a L10, just like you. He kept the 4 speed if memory serves. But he stayed with stock as far as he could....just like you. ;D And, like you, he is overjoyed with the fruit of his labor and is tired to death of people telling him he can't put a "T" config in a 4106 cause the frame will break and he should be due to it running around for 5 years or so. He drives it all over cause it gets such great MPG and has power to make good time. I am certain he hasn't changed a single thing he didn't need to change.
What MPG are you getting from your setup. The auto should cost you some efficiency but people here have dropped 10K just to get rid of their clutch. I lust for the Auto Shift stick that Brian(?) has. Those cute little box vans made by Izusu now come with a 6 speed stick and an auto shifting operation.
John
-
It kinda a no brainier for a swap on a wore out 71 series engine Gary will install the L10 for about the same price as a 8v71 out of frame job but his ZF transmissions he can keep but they make installing a L10 in a MCI easier.
They are good engines but no way would I give up a good 8v92 for one like my friend did he gets about the same fuel mileage as he did with his 8v92 FWIW
good luck
-
Given you use of the technical term "that stuff" you don't have much of a passion for matters mechanical.
I'm guessing that's right.
From now on I will use public trans and stay in a motel. ::)
Melbo
-
Humor Melbo.....humor. :P ;D
-
Well NOW I have smashed a clock with a hammer but the casino would not let me take apart the slot machine.
I don't have anything to compare it to but the ZF has worked for me and I like the retarder --- The support from Harbor Diesel in CA has been very helpful and quick.
Kept me from using a tow truck and got me off the side of the road with a little tech help over the phone.
Melbo
-
Melbo, they are good transmissions when they are working just when they need rebuilding the cost is out of this world and not many shops will work on one
good luck
-
The not many shops is sure right.
I took mine out in Alb and trucked it to CA to get it done.
The cost did not seem out of line for a trans rebuild (10K) about what I've heard that allision will cost BUT as I said I don't have anything to compare it to.
Melbo
-
Melbo, 3 grand exchange for a rebuilt 740 4 grand for 754 with retarder
good luck
-
Well NOW I have smashed a clock with a hammer but the casino would not let me take apart the slot machine.
I don't have anything to compare it to but the ZF has worked for me and I like the retarder --- The support from Harbor Diesel in CA has been very helpful and quick.
Kept me from using a tow truck and got me off the side of the road with a little tech help over the phone.
Melbo
In the years that I have been reading this I have heard that the ZF is a superior trans. Why? Dunno. My impression is that the reason people stay away is the cost to repair and scarcity of qualified techs. You have beat that problem. From what I hear you will not outlive that trans and that is considering you will live a long long life.
You add in the cost of a 740 core and the labor to r&r and I bet you are close to what you paid.
Good luck with your "new" trans. Let us know how she does after a few miles.
John
-
I've got over 15 and probably close to 20 thousand miles on the trans so far.
Just ran about a thousand miles up into Colorado and over Tennessee pass (both up and back).
The retarder worked great on the downhills and the engine ran great the whole trip although it was smoky at the higher altitudes.
I wanted to thank azdieselman for the info on the engine. I printed it out and put it in my "owners manual" for future reference.
Thanks for all the help and opinions on this.
Melbo