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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: eb99603 on June 01, 2018, 04:29:29 PM

Title: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eb99603 on June 01, 2018, 04:29:29 PM
My conversion dreams are being dashed by insurance woes. I cannot find anyone to insure my coach in the state of AK. My only "option" is the assigned risk pool for all of the other insurance outcasts (mostly DWI offenders) which as you'd guess, comes at enormous cost. I think I'm going to sell (or more likely in AK, part out and scrap) my Setra and buy a from-the-factory motorhome.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: J_E on June 01, 2018, 06:13:21 PM
I had a similar experience.  Tried playing all the games of omission and other word games that members here suggest and had no real success.  I finally called a local State Farm agent and started talking straight with them about what I had and what I needed for insurance.  I ended up with a "Commercial" policy with the requirement that I keep the commercial coverage for at least a year.  I could update them on the conversion work as it progresses and they said that would up my coverage as applicable.  After it's fully converted and I get it titled as an RV (or more likely, assembled), then I can easily convert to RV insurance as soon as I've reached the one year minimum. 

Costs me about $70/month for full coverage on the bus at its appraised value.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: chessie4905 on June 01, 2018, 06:15:04 PM
It's usually collision insurance or a non finished conversion that is still titled as a bus that causes the problems.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: Branderson on June 01, 2018, 06:17:27 PM
Are u military at all? If so go thru usaa
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: Branderson on June 01, 2018, 06:17:59 PM
Im not even sure if usaa is only military these days
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: J_E on June 01, 2018, 06:44:28 PM
USAA no longer insures RVs, they farm it out to progressive.  Progressive has adopted the policy that they will no longer insure a coach unless it's a Marathon or comparable.  I was told this by multiple agents.  Almost had one of them convinced that my bus was a MCI Marathon, but I believe that the VIN or title history screwed me. 
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eb99603 on June 01, 2018, 06:56:52 PM
I'm a current USAA customer, and had the bus (which is now titled as an RV) insured through Progressive back when I lived in MN. When I switched to AK, Progressive dropped me like a bad habit.

I've been dealing with trying to get coverage for about a year now, while my bus sits. I've called literally every underwriter that operates in the state. I've only ever asked for liability coverage.
Title: Time To Lean On Your Personal Family Or Company Insurance Agent? ...
Post by: HB of CJ on June 01, 2018, 06:58:35 PM
Respectfully ...

We have found that most agents do not want to do the leg work for you.  They should.  Time to lean on your agent?  Make it very clear you need insurance on your non commercial RV Bus Conversion that yourself have converted.

If they can not or will not perform, tell them you might change Agents.  Yep.

It is the stuff the Agent may not tell you.  Nearly all States might allow you to post a personal bond in lieu of RV Bus Conversion insurance?  This also is the same as self insured.  This is what the rich folks with Trusts do lots of times. 

Respectfully ...
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: Branderson on June 01, 2018, 07:04:08 PM
Wait usaa hasnt third partied you? Two yrs ago they got me to foremost insurance.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eb99603 on June 01, 2018, 07:12:10 PM
I've leaned on every agent I've spoken to and consumed copious amounts of time from folks who ultimately never got my business because they either were unable, or unwilling to take my money. I've even spoken to the state Division of Insurance, who told me that the Assigned Risk Pool is my only option if no private insurer will voluntarily insure me.

@Branderson - USAA does not insure RVs anymore, and they do not insure commercial vehicles for personal use. They send me along to Progressive and Progressive only. As stated, Progressive positively will not insure me. I've spent literally months arguing with them about it.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eb99603 on June 01, 2018, 07:16:32 PM
@HB - I can't find anything about bonds in lieu of insurance in any AK statutes. This list: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/insurance/states-not-get-car-insurance/ (https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/insurance/states-not-get-car-insurance/) seems to confirm that this isn't an option for me in Alaska.

Even if it were, the financial risk associated with having to personally shoulder the costs of an accident simply aren't worth it. At that point I'll just drive a fiberglass hunk-a-junk instead of a coach.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: Lin on June 01, 2018, 07:17:42 PM
Have you tried GMAC (or whatever they call it now)?
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: luvrbus on June 01, 2018, 07:19:12 PM
Have you tried Geico ? It may be worth the money for you to join Good Sam's or FMCA and use their insurance program
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eagle19952 on June 01, 2018, 07:21:19 PM
I've leaned on every agent I've spoken to and consumed copious amounts of time from folks who ultimately never got my business because they either were unable, or unwilling to take my money. I've even spoken to the state Division of Insurance, who told me that the Assigned Risk Pool is my only option if no private insurer will voluntarily insure me.

@Branderson - USAA does not insure RVs anymore, and they do not insure commercial vehicles for personal use. They send me along to Progressive and Progressive only. As stated, Progressive positively will not insure me. I've spent literally months arguing with them about it.

AIS INSURANCE
(888) 772-4247

ps. 99654 :)

Insured since 2002 and also have other vehicles
plated in 3 other states..Full Time policy
but NONE of my Real Estate is with them.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: richard5933 on June 01, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
USAA no longer insures RVs, they farm it out to progressive.  Progressive has adopted the policy that they will no longer insure a coach unless it's a Marathon or comparable.  I was told this by multiple agents.  Almost had one of them convinced that my bus was a MCI Marathon, but I believe that the VIN or title history screwed me. 
Progressive appears to have different guidelines state by state. We have Progressive on our 4108, and we did on our 4106 as well. Of course, having a bus that was professionally converted made things much easier. Our current one still wears the Land Cruiser plaques which certainly helped. In many ways it seemed that they are were just trying to eliminate some of the risks that come from conversions done by unknown entities. Things like 120v running over speaker wire would scare me away from writing a policy, and while the conversion in this thread may not be in that category it's easy to understand why a carrier wants to protect itself.

Not sure if the OP has his bus titled as a motor home or if it is still technically a bus. Anyone that has a bus still titled/registered as a bus should expect to have bus insurance. Once converted and titled as a motor home things get easier, but there are still potential problems.

As an option, do you spend enough time in any other state to make registering the bus in another state a possibility?

Do any of the companies doing insurance in AK have a set of guidelines for what they will insure? With the number of conversions I've read about in AK someone must be issuing coverage.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: DominicM on June 01, 2018, 07:28:21 PM
I was suggested to

 https://www.aisinsurance.com/products/recreational-vehicle/bus-conversion.aspx#t2 (https://www.aisinsurance.com/products/recreational-vehicle/bus-conversion.aspx#t2) they insure both conversion and conversion in process buses.


 After I tried the same route with progressive.   AIS was willing to insure me for a not so nominal fee. With further persistence I contacted a affiliate of Progressive---American Choice 855-758-3385 and  --RV Insu   866-417-1639.  
American Choice said sorry there is nothing we can do, RV Insurance said heck you we will insure you through PROGRESSIVE Hawaii.    It took careful review of my title to notice that someone registered it as an MCA rather than MCI.  MH is the Model.

As previously mentioned the words bus, conversion, couch all seemed to be RED FLAGS.  
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eb99603 on June 01, 2018, 07:30:07 PM
Yes I've tried GMAC (National General), AIS, Good Sam, All State, State Farm, Geico, Travelers, Liberty Mutual, Foremost, Safeco, USAA, Umialik, Nationwide, and on and on and on.

Yes it's titled as an RV (though, since titling it, a bunch of the RV features have been removed). I've tried RV policies. I've tried bus policies. Short of creating a business in the state, registering the vehicle to it (as a bus), and getting a commercial policy I'm out of luck. And I'm not sure what, if any, extra requirements come with that. Presumably though, I'd at minimum need a Class B license to drive it since it'd be a bus not a motorhome, as far as the state and the insurance companies are concerned. I presume DOT inspections would also be in order.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eb99603 on June 01, 2018, 07:32:17 PM
AISINSURANCE.COM
(888) 772-4247

ps. 99654 :)

I'll try again. Got nothin to lose.

Oh, and hi "neighbor".
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eagle19952 on June 01, 2018, 07:42:30 PM
I'll try again. Got nothin to lose.

Oh, and hi "neighbor".

Currently in the Lower 48.
In-fact my bus will probably never see AK again.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: richard5933 on June 01, 2018, 07:55:41 PM
Yes I've tried GMAC (National General), AIS, Good Sam, All State, State Farm, Geico, Travelers, Liberty Mutual, Foremost, Safeco, USAA, Umialik, Nationwide, and on and on and on.

Yes it's titled as an RV (though, since titling it, a bunch of the RV features have been removed). I've tried RV policies. I've tried bus policies. Short of creating a business in the state, registering the vehicle to it (as a bus), and getting a commercial policy I'm out of luck. And I'm not sure what, if any, extra requirements come with that. Presumably though, I'd at minimum need a Class B license to drive it since it'd be a bus not a motorhome, as far as the state and the insurance companies are concerned. I presume DOT inspections would also be in order.

There are people that register their motor homes in states like Montana through an LLC. I know nothing about it, but it seems to be done all the time. Businesses are allowed to own motor homes, and unless it's being used for commercial purposes I don't believe you need any special license - from my reading registration status and license requirements are determined by use, not ownership. If ownership were the determination, then everyone that drives a company car would need a commercial license since the corporation owns the car.

Another thought is to contact FMCA and see what the insurance they offer has in your area. It may be worth joining FMCA if it means getting insurance.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eb99603 on June 01, 2018, 08:03:36 PM
Good point on ownership vs use.

I'll reach out to FMCA.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: Branderson on June 01, 2018, 08:04:39 PM
I've leaned on every agent I've spoken to and consumed copious amounts of time from folks who ultimately never got my business because they either were unable, or unwilling to take my money. I've even spoken to the state Division of Insurance, who told me that the Assigned Risk Pool is my only option if no private insurer will voluntarily insure me.

@Branderson - USAA does not insure RVs anymore, and they do not insure commercial vehicles for personal use. They send me along to Progressive and Progressive only. As stated, Progressive positively will not insure me. I've spent literally months arguing with them about it.


Do u mind if I call who im thru bc that literally is opposite of what i have
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: luvrbus on June 01, 2018, 08:20:38 PM
I have friend in Ketchikan Ak that has State Farm on his GMC come to think of it he AZ plates now
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: Geoff on June 02, 2018, 07:11:43 AM
Even though I have a nice conversion I have never tried to get full coverage just liability.  I don't want to get into that den of snakes.  I've had Progressive forever but heard they don't take on self conversions anymore. 
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: luvrbus on June 02, 2018, 07:17:59 AM
Seated buses are easy to get coverage on (here in AZ they are) you may try that route till you can find a carrier
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: windtrader on June 02, 2018, 12:18:30 PM
Remember insurance is regulated at the state level and each carrier has to abide by the laws of the states it does business in. Progressive covers converted coaches in CA. Just got a renewal and wow, a DROP in premiums! Moved and new address has more favorable ratings. Surely, there are carriers in your state, so even if someone posts about a given carrier, do pursue it as your state may write coverage.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eagle19952 on June 02, 2018, 10:12:36 PM
Remember insurance is regulated at the state level and each carrier has to abide by the laws of the states it does business in. Progressive covers converted coaches in CA. Just got a renewal and wow, a DROP in premiums! Moved and new address has more favorable ratings. Surely, there are carriers in your state, so even if someone posts about a given carrier, do pursue it as your state may write coverage.

My house/home is in Alaska. The one i live/lived in.
My carrier dropped me like a bomb (years ago) When i asked why...they dropped everyone in the state at renewel
reason...hurricane Andrew, in Florida.. go figure.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: windtrader on June 03, 2018, 11:53:07 AM
Insurance is a risk management business. It is all about calculating risk. Who knows but maybe it's an adjustment to a more risk-off approach in the portfolio and felt an earthquake or some other risk event in Alaska was too much to keep.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: DoubleEagle on June 03, 2018, 12:06:54 PM
I agree, but I would say it is a profit management business that considers risks to their profits. Providing financial protection to the insured is collateral damage (as they used to say in Vietnam).  ;)
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: luvrbus on June 03, 2018, 12:14:45 PM
I agree, but I would say it is a profit management business that considers risks to their profits. Providing financial protection to the insured is collateral damage (as they used to say in Vietnam).  ;)


LOL my Homeowners was under $ 500.00 for years,now it almost 3k.I ask why they tell me because of the forest fires in California destroying home.I gave my agent the registered bull look at a bastard calf and ask her what the hell does living in the AZ desert have anything to do with forest fires in CA she never answered me   
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: bigred on June 03, 2018, 04:48:44 PM
I see where some state (And I believe it is Navada) will let you register a bus there .Most do it for tax reasons but I wonder if you could for insurance purposes as well.Just saw an ad recently for an out fit that will handle the paper work etc .Don;t remember who it was but I'm sure there are folks on here with lot longer memory's  than mine that can fill you in on this>
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: bigred on June 03, 2018, 04:51:16 PM
I see where some state (And I believe it is Navada) will let you register a bus there .Most do it for tax reasons but I wonder if you could for insurance purposes as well.Just saw an ad recently for an out fit that will handle the paper work etc .Don;t remember who it was but I'm sure there are folks on here with lot longer memory's  than mine that can fill you in on this>
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: Dave5Cs on June 03, 2018, 05:09:18 PM
South Dakota
 It's called "My Address" be careful because in some states you can get big fines for using them.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: richard5933 on June 03, 2018, 05:12:59 PM
While this type of thing is done, it's also important to check to be sure that the insurance you get is based on location of registration and not where it is stored/garaged. It would really suck to go through all that to get insurance, only to find out that they won't pay a claim when you need them.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: luvrbus on June 03, 2018, 05:57:04 PM
Most people use South Dakota to skirt around taxes,95% of those are fulltimers so I see nothing wrong with it     
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: richard5933 on June 03, 2018, 06:18:25 PM
I wasn't making a judgement on right or wrong, just pointing out to read the fine print to insure that the coverage applies.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: luvrbus on June 03, 2018, 06:28:31 PM
I wasn't making a judgement on right or wrong, just pointing out to read the fine print to insure that the coverage applies.


I know what you saying Richard ,here in Az the Az plates are not valid without AZ insurance,they will cancel your registration without Az insurance that came about 2 years ago lol so I had to go shopping for insurance   
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: Lin on June 03, 2018, 06:34:39 PM
I do not know how true it is, but I was told that California is particularly aggressive about vehicles in CA being registered out of state.  I think it would be troublesome here to have a CA license and and out of state tag during a CHP stop.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: DoubleEagle on June 03, 2018, 06:55:40 PM
The outfit in South Dakota that facilitates registration for vehicles also guides you in what you need to do for drivers licenses as well. South Dakota would become your state of residence using their services.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eb99603 on June 03, 2018, 07:01:04 PM
Interesting options in here. I won't be giving up my AK residency. That'll cost me an arm and a leg while I still own property and fish/hunt here. Plus, the PFD until the state squanders that money away too.

I might look into creating an LLC in another state, and registering the bus to that.

But I might just buy Rob's (Skykingrob, that is) old '89 Newell that's for sale again on the Peninsula. https://kenai.craigslist.org/rvs/d/1989-newell-motorcoach/6599314437.html
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eagle19952 on June 03, 2018, 07:34:33 PM
Most people use South Dakota to skirt around taxes,95% of those are fulltimers so I see nothing wrong with it     

Until they catch you.

Avoiding the excise/property tax/sales taxes that you would pay as a resident in your home state...you know the one where you claim homestead exemptions. pay income tax, or a myriad of other things that show them you are a resident obligated to pay.

At your own peril.
http://gypsyjournalrv.com/2018/04/llcs-ku-and-fb/ (http://gypsyjournalrv.com/2018/04/llcs-ku-and-fb/)
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eagle19952 on June 03, 2018, 07:42:02 PM

But I might just buy Rob's (Skykingrob, that is) old '89 Newell that's for sale again on the Peninsula. https://kenai.craigslist.org/rvs/d/1989-newell-motorcoach/6599314437.html (https://kenai.craigslist.org/rvs/d/1989-newell-motorcoach/6599314437.html)

LOOKS tasty . Alaska dollars, everything costs more :)

an Alaska $5.00 bill :) (http://moya.bus.miami.edu/~dkelly/teach/eco403/1999_50f.jpg)
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: Dave5Cs on June 03, 2018, 08:25:58 PM
The problem is some do the SD thing and get a license there to drive and rig plates and then don't live there. So they get spotted at their regular resident and they are not all full-timers either, but if they are driving and get pulled over or they do a check they find all your stuff in SD but live else where or claim domicial in another state. California is only one of many that we checked. Yes it is also to avoid taxes in your home state so why do you think they are fining people. Kind of a no brainer.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: luvrbus on June 03, 2018, 08:58:00 PM
My point is most people of the full timers group have no residence they call home the bus or RV is their home,the ones that have a residence is a different story,the Escapees full timers use Texas, I see nothing wrong with it if you are a full timer   
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: Lin on June 03, 2018, 10:26:57 PM
I agree that there is nothing wrong with it for the right people.  But if you are going to be staying in one state most of the time, they might not agree.

California demands you register your vehicle in Ca if:

"You are registered to vote.
You are gainfully employed. Military personnel are not considered gainfully employed in California, even if they also hold a civilian job.
Your place of business is located.
Resident tuition is paid at a public institution of higher education.
Dependents attend a primary or secondary school.
Homeowner's property tax exemption is declared.
Property is leased for use as a residence.
Residence is declared to obtain a license, privilege, or benefit not ordinarily extended to a nonresident.
Your current driver license was issued.
You are determined to be a resident as evidenced by acts, occurrences, or events that indicate presence in the state is more than temporary or transient."

The last one is general enough to be used against a lot of people.  Of course, since CA is a high fee state, they may be more sensitive to this issue than some others.
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: luvrbus on June 04, 2018, 06:07:18 AM
The Montana LLC are set up to avoid paying sales tax on the high end RV's that's all it is for, but that is changing just like Oregon has
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: eagle19952 on June 04, 2018, 11:05:10 AM
The Montana LLC are set up to avoid paying sales tax on the high end RV's that's all it is for, but that is changing just like Oregon has

only to avoid a class action suit brought by 49 other states :)
Title: Re: Thwarted by Insurance
Post by: sledhead on June 04, 2018, 01:01:50 PM
make a offer on the '89 Newell . easy to insure and resale value as well

dave
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