Electric or Propane for your Appliances in Next Bus

[luvrbus]

Clifford,I haven't a clue what drives the upgrades of solar farm equipment. As allued to, there is surely some economic angle, incentives, tax credit swaps, accelerated depreciation schedules, etc. I'd stand on this line of reasoning  rather than equipment becoming inoperative. Like Gary mentions, you can get surplus panels all day long for dirt cheap. There is constant increase in performance so maybe being able to increase production per given space also factors in. For example, if you can double the electrical output per acre by swapping panels, maybe there is more profit, etc. One thing for certain, these large solar farm enterprises are not doing it to lose money or not maximizing overall profits.

Around here the hay farmers are selling off sections to the solar people and selling the water right for the 640 acres to other hay farmers since Biden screwed up the water AZ can have now

[TomC]

I have done 2 conversions exactly the same way. When I did my first conversion in 1994, I priced out the Aqua-hot and $15,000 just for the system said NO. Hence I used 2-10gal electric water heaters (no coolant loop), 35,000btu propane furnace with 4 outlets, 3 burner propane stove and 25 gal chassis mounted propane tank with interior shut off valve that all cost about $1500 at time of build. The two 10gal electric water heaters lasted 27 years before they started to leak. I replaced with same that were actually a bit smaller in diameter. And how much maintenance did I have to do on the water heaters-drain once a year-that's all. Try that with a Aqua-hot! I had to replace the propane furnace once because I forgot to turn it off and it ran for 2 weeks straight-the fan didn't like that. I bought a whole new one because the new one was quieter and had automatic shut off after 2 minutes if no propane was present.
Currently with my Kenworth truck conversion, I have 3-100amp/hour Lith/Iron Battleborn batteries, 12kw Wrico Diesel Generator, no solar panels yet. With last year going on 5 trips totalling about 8 weeks, we used about 3/4 tank of propane. I love my setup-you couldn't pay me enough to get the headache and constant maintenance of a Aqua-hot. Every Quartzite rally, the Aqua-hot guy is going rig to rig doing maintenance. But-we do our own conversions to do it our way. Good Luck, TomC

[luvrbus]

I have done 2 conversions exactly the same way. When I did my first conversion in 1994, I priced out the Aqua-hot and $15,000 just for the system said NO. Hence I used 2-10gal electric water heaters (no coolant loop), 35,000btu propane furnace with 4 outlets, 3 burner propane stove and 25 gal chassis mounted propane tank with interior shut off valve that all cost about $1500 at time of build. The two 10gal electric water heaters lasted 27 years before they started to leak. I replaced with same that were actually a bit smaller in diameter. And how much maintenance did I have to do on the water heaters-drain once a year-that's all. Try that with a Aqua-hot! I had to replace the propane furnace once because I forgot to turn it off and it ran for 2 weeks straight-the fan didn't like that. I bought a whole new one because the new one was quieter and had automatic shut off after 2 minutes if no propane was present.
Currently with my Kenworth truck conversion, I have 3-100amp/hour Lith/Iron Battleborn batteries, 12kw Wrico Diesel Generator, no solar panels yet. With last year going on 5 trips totalling about 8 weeks, we used about 3/4 tank of propane. I love my setup-you couldn't pay me enough to get the headache and constant maintenance of a Aqua-hot. Every Quartzite rally, the Aqua-hot guy is going rig to rig doing maintenance. But-we do our own conversions to do it our way. Good Luck, TomC

If you do it yourself the newer AquaHot are not that bad,clean the burner,install a new orifice and fuel filter, I don't think it is worth 200 bucks the service people charge either,Aqua Hot does not like long periods of no use,so far no major problems yet with mine,I cylcle mine once a month if a pump is not working I have the rubber hammer

[sledhead]

the rubber hammer again
after replacing the aqua hot with the pro heat boiler in 2017 the pro heat has never not started or had any problems

I like the diesel instant heat and endless hot water  but do like to cook on the propane bbq or cook top

do it your way is the bus nut way

[luvrbus]

the rubber hammer again
after replacing the aqua hot with the pro heat boiler in 2017 the pro heat has never not started or had any problems

I like the diesel instant heat and endless hot water  but do like to cook on the propane bbq or cook top

do it your way is the bus nut way

Webasto for several years was plagued by problems in the Aqua Hot mine has been good but the pumps will stick if not used then comes the rubber hammer. Mine has the dual electric heating elements and does good on electric too. MCI had so many problems with the Webasto they stopped using it for 5 years,I like the Pro/Heat that was what my Oasis used.I see some of the gasoline powered Class A  RV's with Propane Aquahots now 

[peterbylt]

Adding Solar to your rig does not have to be all that expensive, I have just under $2000 into mine and it’s a pretty decent system, 600 AH of batteries and 1500 watt of solar.

The Panels are as has been discussed here, used from a Solar farm, 6 250 watt panels cost me $50 each, tested as good as new.
3000 watt pure sign inverter, got that used as well, System is designed around Electrodacus Tech, not your typical build, not plug and play, but not near as expensive as most of the stuff.

Most expensive and most difficult parts to get were the 16 - 3.2 volt LiFePO4 300AH cells. Individual cells shipped from China, but again much less expensive than the popular brand name ready to go batteries.
 
For me it’s as much about learning and building the stuff as it is about using the end product, if I had to have it professionally installed, probably would not have it.

Took me quite a bit of research to learn about it, thought I was pretty good with electrical, solar is a different ball game, took quite a bit of time to source the parts, some time to assemble and stabilize, truly everything I could have wanted out of a project.

The benefits, there are no downsides, it’s like being permanently plugged into a 30 amp plug. There is no power in the yard where I store the bus, Makes no difference to me, all the power I need to run Power Tools, Vacuum cleaner, Lights, refrigerator, it’s always on self maintains.

On the road, can stop anywhere, Walmart, no issue all the comforts of an RV park, air fryer, microwave, Fridge, TV, rest areas same.
As Windtrader said, we have been in RV parks where we never plugged in.

Last year had a wheel bearing fail and got stuck in a strip mall parking lot for three days waiting on parts, again no problem, all the comforts of home.
The solar panels covering a good portion of the roof, definitely make it much cooler in the Florida sun.

If there is a downside, Solar power is like a drug, the more you have the more you want, fortunately I built my system so it is infinitely expandable without having to scrap any of the current parts (yet).

Could have all this with just the generator, but Generators are noisy and drink fuel.

It’s nice to need just two fuel sources, Diesel and Electricity, one of which is self-renewing.

Peter

[windtrader]

Love the post Peter. Its like 50 to 1 naysayers to converts. Like you learned it all and that is the fun of DIY. well, saving a ton of $$ is uber nice. My first battery pack was lithium ion and I had a few DIYer goofs and the battery back performance is less than stellar, that's being kind. So, made the decision to switch to LiFePO4, still DIY. But there isn't any reason why others don't jump now as Will Prowse keep reviewing new plug in server battery and the prices are getting so cheap. It's hard to justify DIY as the savings are really shrinking. But I still love the science and satisfaction of DIY and knowing how it all works down to the the cell balancing and temp sensors etc.
Are you finding 6-250 panels enough? I went SBMS0 too but had reliability issues. Probably self-inflicted due to improper shorting it. One thing is it is very rudimentary with respect to having self preservation circuitry. It would take very little to add some on board protections to improve DIY abuse.
The original Vanner charge/inverter is old school and not pure sine wave which worked fine for years until I bought a vertical round fan and it acted up as the PWM motor needed pure sine. I got a Victron Quatttro, then spoiled by the SBMS0 monitoring I got a Cerbo GX. So got slowly sucked into the Victron framework. Selecting a Victron inverter/charger so it'll all integrate via the GX and then via wiFi I can remote monitor anywhere in the world. Realistically, the practical goal is to just keep the bus up and running 24/7 and controlled wherever I am. Along with smarthome features, preparing the bus before heading out will be a breeze. Turn on AC or heat if needed, turn on the heating blanket, nice and cozy, lighting controls, LOL.
Maybe full timers that run their bus systems 24/7 have answered the question about letting all systems run all the time when not occupied but in standby mode, ready to roll with a few touches on a remote control pad.

[peterbylt]

Love the post Peter. Its like 50 to 1 naysayers to converts. Like you learned it all and that is the fun of DIY. well, saving a ton of $$ is uber nice. My first battery pack was lithium ion and I had a few DIYer goofs and the battery back performance is less than stellar, that's being kind. So, made the decision to switch to LiFePO4, still DIY. But there isn't any reason why others don't jump now as Will Prowse keep reviewing new plug in server battery and the prices are getting so cheap. It's hard to justify DIY as the savings are really shrinking. But I still love the science and satisfaction of DIY and knowing how it all works down to the the cell balancing and temp sensors etc.
Are you finding 6-250 panels enough? I went SBMS0 too but had reliability issues. Probably self-inflicted due to improper shorting it. One thing is it is very rudimentary with respect to having self preservation circuitry. It would take very little to add some on board protections to improve DIY abuse.
The original Vanner charge/inverter is old school and not pure sine wave which worked fine for years until I bought a vertical round fan and it acted up as the PWM motor needed pure sine. I got a Victron Quatttro, then spoiled by the SBMS0 monitoring I got a Cerbo GX. So got slowly sucked into the Victron framework. Selecting a Victron inverter/charger so it'll all integrate via the GX and then via wiFi I can remote monitor anywhere in the world. Realistically, the practical goal is to just keep the bus up and running 24/7 and controlled wherever I am. Along with smarthome features, preparing the bus before heading out will be a breeze. Turn on AC or heat if needed, turn on the heating blanket, nice and cozy, lighting controls, LOL.
Maybe full timers that run their bus systems 24/7 have answered the question about letting all systems run all the time when not occupied but in standby mode, ready to roll with a few touches on a remote control pad.

With the 6 - 250 watt Panels, I could use a few more panels, next two panels will be ground deployable, got stuck in a shaded site for a weekend a while ago, deployable would have been nice.

With a few growing pains at the very beginning the SBMS0 has been extremely reliable.

The AIMS inverter/charger I have, although old enough not to have a lithium charge profile, is Pure Sine, and will shut itself off before over charging or over discharging and damaging the Cells, I also soldered in some internal connections to allow it to be controlled by the SBMS0, that now controls the charge profile and will also shut it down completely if any one cell is charged to 3.7 volts or discharged to 2.5 volts.

I have stressed tested it successfully on both the over charge and over discharge ends a few times as well.

I am currently working on a way to remotely access the SBMS0 built in status webpage using a GL Inet router with a sim card, that way I could check the status remotely as opposed to currently I drive by the storage lot every few days (very close), don’t even get out of the car just access the status page on my phone and go.

If my Aims inverter gives out would definitely go with the Victron Multiplus Inverter.

Peter

PS. Did you see my solar power article in the Nov\Dec of 2022 editions of BCM?

[dtcerrato]

There won't be a next bus, only one for 44 years now and many more years we hope unless of coarse we won a lottery that we don't play.

[luvrbus]

There won't be a next bus, only one for 44 years now and many more years we hope unless of coarse we won a lottery that we don't play.

Not another one here either Dan,my phone rings all the time people wanting engine work done ,I am happy with my sticks and staples job I just need more time to use it

[Jim Blackwood]

There ARE some things that are worth doing once only...

Jim

[luvrbus]

There ARE some things that are worth doing once only...

Jim

 

Unless you park the bus,you will be spending some $$$$,even parked they cost money

[windtrader]

PS. Did you see my solar power article in the Nov\Dec of 2022 editions of BCM?

No, hate to admit but no longer subscriber. Good for on the article, I had discussed doing one for Gary a couple years back but I dropped the ball.