Author Topic: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010  (Read 4298 times)

Offline TomC

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No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« on: November 07, 2008, 07:46:38 AM »
Some of you may already know, Caterpillar is pulling out of the on highway (bus and truck) engine market.  Cat made some engineering mistakes that they just couldn't rebound from. 
A little history- in 2002, Caterpillar used catalytic converters on all their on road engines to get better smoke control.  They worked well, and were on the most part reliable.   Then in 2007 when every other engine manufacturer went to catalytic converters with particulate traps, Caterpillar had to be different and stopped using their catalytic converters and just added the particulate trap, with twin turbos on the larger engines to push in extra air to clean the combustion even better.  Sounded good on paper, except they were problematic-so much so-that it almost bankrupted Caterpillar with the warranty claims (this happened a few years ago also with the 3176-that was the predecessor to the C12).
My point-many of the bus companies have been using Caterpillar engines since Detroit is part of the Freightliner family-they felt buying Detroits was buying from the competition.  Now with Caterpillar pulling out of the bus/truck engine industry, the bus companies will only have one American independent engine company to choose from-and that is Cummins.
From a truck sales point of view-all American truck companies are aligned with a European truck manufacturer.  Freightliner/Western Star is with Mercedes-Benz; Paccar (Kenworth & Peterbilt) are with DAF (Dutch Automotive Fabrication); Mack with Volvo (Mack engines are not being made anymore); International with MAN (Manufacturing Augsburg Nuremburg); Hino is a division of Toyota.  So with no more Caterpillar, all truck manufacturers listed here will offer the Cummins engine and their own engine as an option.  What is unique about Freightliner, is we also will offer the Cummins, but also the excellent Detrtoit DD13, DD15, DD16 that will be made in Detroit.  Even though Freightliner is owned by Mercedes-Benz, both engine manufacturers, Detroit and Cummins are American built.  We will still be able to make a 100% American made truck.  In this day and age that is unique.  Good Luck, TomC
Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.

makemineatwostroke

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Re: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2008, 08:02:37 AM »
TomC the Cat engines are still going to be made for the foreign markets only they will be made in Brazil,our EPA and your State does everything possible to hurt the US engine manufactures.FWIW look for John Deere to enter the market I have saw some Petes with the new Deere`engine 6125 12.5 L and the 6135 14.5 L being tested a version of their marine engine . With only the Cummins for other manufactures that will be a beautiful sight with the rods sticking out of the blocks on the ISM in the trucks and buses    have a great day
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 09:31:43 AM by makemineatwostroke »

Offline Sojourner

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Re: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2008, 08:39:49 AM »
Thank you for the updates.

It good to keep in mind for the future or now engine swap planning.

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
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luvrbus

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Re: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2008, 08:55:57 AM »
Jerry, nothing to worry about swapping to a Cat any engine they build is used in some of their equipment it all started with 336 engine from the 9U D6 dozer in the late 50's and 60's.by the time most engines are swapped they are obsolete anyway so why worry about it, parts will be there you can buy parts for 50 years old tractor from Cat today   good luck
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 09:04:37 AM by luvrbus »

Offline jjrbus

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Re: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2008, 10:42:37 AM »
i have read here that the China buses will be available here, what kind of engins will they have??
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Offline Paul

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Re: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2008, 01:50:48 PM »
Paul
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Offline tony

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Re: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2008, 03:30:13 PM »
thank to all of you for the help just got bad news from maine have to leave to go i will get back to as soon as i get back thanks guys for the help tony

Offline TomC

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Re: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2008, 07:32:39 PM »
One Chinese bus manufacturer is using the Freightliner motorhome chassis-read Cummins.
Deere engines have been used for natural gas engines.  Since Deere and Detroit worked together in the early stages of developing the Series 60, many of the design features on the Deere engine will be very close to the Detroit Series 60.

In 2010, Cummins will drop the ISM.  In its' place will be a little brother of the ISX engine.  Even Cummins doesn't know yet what they will call the new engine.  Good Luck, TomC
Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.

Offline JohnEd

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Re: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2008, 09:34:21 PM »
I don't understand MMA2S's statement about the ISM and rods going thru the block.  Help!  I thought ther ISM was a really good and eco engine....wrong?

Does anybody have a site that describes the ISM and M11 engines?

Thanks,

John
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Offline JohnEd

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Re: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2008, 09:39:38 PM »
MMA2S,

Not argueing with you now....what has the EPA and Ca. done to put the domestic engine mfr.s out of bus?  Why are all the engines being mfred in Europe and S America?  The post seemed to say that Cat will still be selling the OTR egines in Europe but will make them in S America....right?  How is EPA involved in that?  Sincere questions these and no fair explaining everything away as "my being a liberal" cause I ain't

Thanks,
John
"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla

Offline TomC

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Re: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2008, 08:09:01 AM »
John- while Europe has just as stringent smog rules as we do, there Euro system is different than our Tier system.  So while Caterpillar might possibly be able to meet the Euro system still, they cannot meet our Tier system in 2010.

If any of you have Caterpillar engines in their buses (I for one have a Caterpiller 3406B in my truck I'm converting), I wouldn't be scared at all about a loss of engine parts.  Unlike Detroit that have stopped making the 2 stroker engines, Caterpillar is still going to be making all their engines-just not for on road use.  So overhaul parts, rebuilt engines and parts just in general should not be a problem.  Good Luck, TomC
Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.

Offline quantum500

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Re: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2008, 06:27:30 PM »
Actually detroit is still making 53, 71, and 92 series 2-strokes in kansas from all places.  Up to 80 units a week not less than 20.  The U.S. Navy has a contract till 2050.  They do not have to follow any epa regs.  Not rumors straight from one of the floor managers of the manufacturing plant. 

Offline jackhartjr

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Re: No more Caterpillar Jan 2010
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2008, 06:41:22 PM »
We have a ton of the ISM's in service with few problems!
In fact I am driving a 2002 International with 946,000 miles on it and it just hums!
Jack
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