Author Topic: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?  (Read 11213 times)

Online niles500

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Re: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2008, 01:12:19 AM »
IM - You can disregard all that spray foam being "structural" gooblygook - you will not find any ASTM structural standards for spray foam - HTH
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Offline Jriddle

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Re: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2008, 04:34:46 AM »
There are ways to get the weld on the back side. If you only have a few braces to fix you could cut the front to access the back and weld from the inside then weld the access hole up. It is kind of a pain in the A#$ but will work and for a few braces shouldn't be that hard. Glad to here about not much rusting in the rest of the bus good luck. That front panel had radio antenna wires in it on mine that panel was also a pain in A#$.
PS I'm 5'7" and didn't raise mine either.
John Riddle
Wells NV
1984 MC9

Offline busshawg

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Re: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2008, 07:10:02 AM »
I just wanted to say , good for you for taking on such a project and being responsible about it. There are more of us our here than maybe wnt to admit it, but the all mighty $$$ does prevail. The insulation from Lowes will work fine just seal it off with spray on the edges to help with the isulation factor and squeaking. I never did it this way so I don't really know but have been told by others it works very well.  Not sure what the wires are for, although I do remember cutting mine. 

Have fun
Have Fun!!
Grant

Offline circusboy90210

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Re: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2008, 07:24:14 AM »
Circus,

Sarcasm will not only be permitted but it will be graded as well.  Straight "A" so far.

JRiddle,

I'm with you.  Err on the side of caution.  Still, I think it is his call and he knows his sched and $ and skills.  I was wondering out loud about welding three sides and installing a brace being as strong as the original.  Hold on here....isn't the vert member a sheet metal form and doesn't it have only three sides to begin with?  I feel so vindicated!!!!!   True, right?

What has perplexed me from the start of this thread is that the guy is going to cut braces along the side and NOBODY has mentioned bracing the entire coach to prevent the thing from going swayback on him.  You never notice that happening from inside.  Once you get everything welded up you will have whatever curve, or lack thereof, that was in it at the time.  I thought people spent an entire day getting a 9 jacked and braced before they cut braces.  Never did it though.

Unless this guy is 5'6" or so and is the "tall one" in the family, someone should have told him what the very first step in converting a 9 should be......Raise the roof 8 inches. True, right?  The second is spray foam after electricks.

John
well surprisingly enough I was not trying to be sarcastic that time but well now that you mention raising the roof. might as well just take the whole bus apart and fix everything at once while it's apart & everything is easier to work with & access. but then again I"m the person who ended up doing frame up restoration on a vw bug for something similar . one thing led to the other while I had it apart for repairing heater channels. one thing lead to another. then I had the the whole  car apart & repaired & or replaced everything that was exposed & took other things down another level that depended on those other things being removed etc... blah blah ad nausium

Offline Sojourner

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Re: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2008, 07:54:19 AM »
About the missing weld joint at the outer-skin side….weld a .083 inch or 14 gauge narrow vertical plate of 3.5 inch or wider mild steel at the bottom and top while the skin on. Then you weld 1 ½ inch square steel tubing vertically in middle of the welded-in plate and a few stitches of 1 inch weld of both side of tubing to plate as well around the remaining exposed end of the tubing.

The second reason for the plate is to have room to re-rivet with structural type rivets

See attachment....the right half side is the plate welded first and then tube added to plate to be welded like the left half of the view.

The bottom-line is there is no need to remove outer skin to repair the damage or rusted framing.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 08:09:46 AM by Sojourner »
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Offline busshawg

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Re: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2008, 08:48:57 AM »
there you have it, I'm with Gerald
Have Fun!!
Grant

Offline gumpy

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Re: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2008, 09:00:01 AM »
One of the problems you will find if you leave the outer skin in place, is that the rust that is falling out of your rusted members will work it's way down between the skin and frame, and will cause a slight bulge as it pushes the skin outward. This gets amplified as you try to cut the old rusted member out without cutting a hole in the outer skin. You try to push the skin away a bit to make a slight more room for the cutting tool, and in doing so you create a little larger cavity for the rust to fall into. Eventually, you decide you just need to remove the lower rivet line of the skin just to get the rust out from between.

You'll see.

BTDT

craig
Craig Shepard
Located in Minnesquito

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Offline Sojourner

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Re: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2008, 09:28:25 AM »
One of the problems you will find if you leave the outer skin in place, is that the rust that is falling out of your rusted members will work it's way down between the skin and frame, and will cause a slight bulge as it pushes the skin outward. This gets amplified as you try to cut the old rusted member out without cutting a hole in the outer skin. You try to push the skin away a bit to make a slight more room for the cutting tool, and in doing so you create a little larger cavity for the rust to fall into. Eventually, you decide you just need to remove the lower rivet line of the skin just to get the rust out from between.

You'll see.

BTDT

craig


Amen Craig! In some cases like my Sojourner MCI-8 was appearing as bad (or worse) as the iminaccess posted photos shows did not need to remove the few rivets. However I have seen other bus nuts MCI that were showing white bubbling spots on under painted surface on the outside of the skin.

Whatever you do...look for light bubbling under (or removed) painted surface....if it shows....then you need to do what Craig quoted. And clean it out very good to avoid redundancy problem.

Thank you Craig for the very important post.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 06:08:46 PM by Sojourner »
http://dalesdesigns.net/names.htm
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him

Offline JohnEd

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Re: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2008, 01:37:56 PM »
Circus,

Webster defines "sarcasm" as "the wit of the master"..... it wasn't a negative comment I made.  That is, unless you thrive on negativity. ???  There, see what Webster means. 8)  Stay frosty.

Thanks,

John
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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Offline JohnEd

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Re: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2008, 01:48:35 PM »
IM,

Like that "old Expert" said.."you go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want".  You are doing what any of us would do in your shoes, which is do the best you can with the resources you have.  That has to be smart.

If your only rust is at the front of the bus you can forget about blocking the middle to prevent sagging.  Raising the roof is an undertaking and if you don't need it you are bypassing a standard expense most endure.  Going with foam board is "good enuf" from an insulation standpoint.  The "structural" aspect of sprayed is in the quieting performance.  Make sure you use the canned spray in all the cracks and crevices AND cover all seams with that "metal" duct tape or sub.

I never dreamed you were 21. You sound much more mature than that to me.  Good parents or innate talent one. 

Good luck with you project and NO, you have never sounded DUMB to me and I doubt to any other.

John
"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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Offline circusboy90210

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Re: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2008, 03:19:50 PM »
Circus,

Webster defines "sarcasm" as "the wit of the master"..... it wasn't a negative comment I made.  That is, unless you thrive on negativity. ???  There, see what Webster means. 8)  Stay frosty.

Thanks,

John
thank You then.

Offline ilyafish

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Re: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2008, 05:00:29 PM »
thank you for the kind words John....good parents definately!

i appreciate everyones help and guidance on this issue....you all have been more than good to me!
Own: 1981 MCI MC9 w/
Veggie Oil Conversion
Live:  Flemington, NJ

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