Update from Doug with the PD4106

[zubzub]

well that's interesting.  If you can believe them, and it may be true, maybe just maybe the system cools enough for an unloaded bus (how heavy was the trailer?)  Everything I have read says no, but nothing is impossible, and maybe a well tuned 871 lightly loaded was cooled enough (maybe there is a new rad in there as well).
   If that is the case you just had a stuck thermostat, this happens a lot with old thermos that haven't run in awhile.  Every spring when I take out my summer car, it overheats until I thwack the thermo housing with a piece of hardwood, then the thermo opens and I'm good for the season. I have tried installing fresh thermos but after a year they do the same thing. Now wouldn't that be a blessing and a shame if that was all there was to it.  It would explain how you had trouble refilling the engine with coolant as well.  An old Mexican trick I have used is to remove the thermo completely for running in very hot weather, with no thermo in place the engine will run much cooler (too cold!) as a  thermo even fully open restricts flow.
  So...I'm sure others may nay this, but it's cold outside and I'm procrastinating and besides sometimes the simple things are the problem K.I.S.S.  and all that.

[BigDougInOregon]

Doug, Were you able to get all the air out of the cooling system? So did you put in the amount you removed?  Tom Y 

No, I only put about 5.5 gallons back in and drained around 8.  I thought all along this could be part of the over heating issue after I worked on the old girl.

[BigDougInOregon]

well that's interesting.  If you can believe them, and it may be true, maybe just maybe the system cools enough for an unloaded bus (how heavy was the trailer?)  Everything I have read says no, but nothing is impossible, and maybe a well tuned 871 lightly loaded was cooled enough (maybe there is a new rad in there as well).
   If that is the case you just had a stuck thermostat, this happens a lot with old thermos that haven't run in awhile.  Every spring when I take out my summer car, it overheats until I thwack the thermo housing with a piece of hardwood, then the thermo opens and I'm good for the season. I have tried installing fresh thermos but after a year they do the same thing. Now wouldn't that be a blessing and a shame if that was all there was to it.  It would explain how you had trouble refilling the engine with coolant as well.  An old Mexican trick I have used is to remove the thermo completely for running in very hot weather, with no thermo in place the engine will run much cooler (too cold!) as a  thermo even fully open restricts flow.
  So...I'm sure others may nay this, but it's cold outside and I'm procrastinating and besides sometimes the simple things are the problem K.I.S.S.  and all that.

We did overheat several times though from Dallas to San Angelo before I worked on her, but we were towing a 1 ton trailer hauling a full sized Ford E350 Super Duty van.  I think part of my issue was the fact that I drained out 8 gallons or so of rad fluid but only could put 5.5 gallons back in.  Never could get her to bleed air.  Could be that simple I suppose but I just couldn't get it figured out.  Where was a good bus nut in El Paso when I needed one?     I keep praying someone from El Paso will chime in and say they can take a look at her only to discover something that simple is what is wrong.

[zubzub]

The good mechanics in El Paso are probably in Juarez.  Not bus nuts but some of the best "McGiver"-ers out there.  When you were having your problems in El Paso it was not too clear exactly what was wrong, although it was obviuosly a cooling problem.  Everything I know says it's the hay wire electric fan set up but if the POs had no problems with it there is a chance that's all you need for now.  In the future you will need the proper fan set up.  In your shoes I would get a mech to make sure the head gaskets aren't blown (should have no: pressure in the cooling system at start up engine cold/ oil in the cooling system/ coolant in the oil ((need to drain some out of the sump as it sits down there))) Drop in a new thermo and see.
If you do a ride share or other drive away thing so you are not pulling your van back things may be easier as well.

[John316]

Zub,

That is excellent advice! Now can you tell Doug how he can bleed the air from the cooling system? I wonder whether it might be something relatively simple. You had a great suggestion about it just being the thermo, that would make good sense.

Doug, do you know if your bus had been sitting for a while? I wonder if it was, that would be the reason for some of your problems. BTW, I really don't think that you got burned on the deal. It was just a bit overpriced for the mechanical condition of it. Really I think that you bought a very reasonable bus. Keep you head up, and you will be able to get it running pretty soon.

God bless,

John

[zubzub]

If the thermo is stuck closed it won't let the coolant from the rad into the block, so he won't be able to burp it until he gets it up to temp with a thermo that opens, then on subsequent stops you keep topping off the coolant.
 As I write on this it's making more and more sense.  When I got my 4104 it took forever for the engine to reach operating temps, really only once I was on the open road (Doug had the same experience in town)  It even made me wonder for awhile if the PO had removed the thermo.  If I had 7.5K $ to spend the time, and a fan hub assembly, maybe I would even bet on it and pick it up myself, sure looks nicer than my rig, and I could always just put my 671 in there and get the good mileage and lousy performance I crave.

[Tom Y]

Doug, A local in my area has a GM also. He changed the stick to an auto, drained the coolant and added a cooler. When he was done he ruined (sorry) the engine on his first trip. He thinks he had an air lock on one half of his engine. I stopped to see him today to ask more about this but did not catch him. I will try again, and let you know. I would think some of these GM owners would chime in if they changed their fluid and had problems. So, just an idea and I may be wasting your time.  Good Luck.  Tom Y

[Don Fairchild]

Doug & Dallas

If you can wait till the end of april we are going to LA for the mud bug festival and we can leave a couple days earlier and go the 10 to meet Dallas to help fix your coach.

Chris:  Do you have the fan and the gears for the torus.

Doug :  do you know or can you find out what oil pump is on the engine, if it was changed to a regular pump it will need to be changed along with the relief and regulator valves
I have A oil pump I will let you have. We will have to get the valves from Luke or?

Doug:  we need to find a fan shroud if it was also removed

Let me know what I can do to help


Don

[Lin]

Is it really possible that an 8v71 could be driven thousands of miles being adequately cooled by a couple of Nissan fans???  I seem to remember some electric fan experiments that did not go well.  There was something about optimism versus physics, and physics won out.

[busshawg]

Stuck thermostat, huh, makes sense to me. I have gone through the same dam thing because of a thermostat. Especially if there is an air lock which sounds like there definitly is.

Now are the head gaskets gone? Only one way to find out. If there are not leaking internally it could be run back home with the rad caps loose, once the air lock is out.

I do think Don is on the right track though, the cooling system needs to be redone , especially if a trailer is behind. I do wonder if under a light load and a close eye on the temp gauge that maybe they did get away with it like that, as already mentioned. Then when Doug hooked the trl on and put it under load,  yep you guys get it. Sounds like it could be a easy fix , especially if the head gaskets are okay, hopefully it didn't get too hot.

As far as the price of the bus goes doesn't look over priced to me , even if a repair is neccessary but then again we don't have such a nice crop to pick from up here.

[BigDougInOregon]

Doug, A local in my area has a GM also. He changed the stick to an auto, drained the coolant and added a cooler. When he was done he ruined (sorry) the engine on his first trip. He thinks he had an air lock on one half of his engine. I stopped to see him today to ask more about this but did not catch him. I will try again, and let you know. I would think some of these GM owners would chime in if they changed their fluid and had problems. So, just an idea and I may be wasting your time.  Good Luck.  Tom Y

Tom,

  That is the big question at hand.  Did I toast the engine trying to be bus mechanic boy.  Hopefully that question will be answered soon.  Thanks for the info and let me know what your local guy says when you talk to him.

Doug

[BigDougInOregon]

Doug & Dallas

If you can wait till the end of april we are going to LA for the mud bug festival and we can leave a couple days earlier and go the 10 to meet Dallas to help fix your coach.

Chris:  Do you have the fan and the gears for the torus.

Doug :  do you know or can you find out what oil pump is on the engine, if it was changed to a regular pump it will need to be changed along with the relief and regulator valves
I have A oil pump I will let you have. We will have to get the valves from Luke or?

Doug:  we need to find a fan shroud if it was also removed

Let me know what I can do to help


Don

Don,

  Your offer to help is way too kind.  I don't have the answers to your questions, sorry.  I bought this old girl sight unseen and didn't get any background on her.  The fan shroud is not present.  As for the time frame, I don't honestly know if I can wait that long to get this done.  I am working against some things that are going to make waiting that long a fairly big issue.  I am going to talk with Dallas tonight.  Mayybe we can formulate a plan that can bring all of this together.  Thank you for wanting to help and I hope we get to meet at some point.  Your reputation on the boards and among the good folks here is stellar.

Doug

[BigDougInOregon]

well that's interesting.  If you can believe them, and it may be true, maybe just maybe the system cools enough for an unloaded bus (how heavy was the trailer?) 

The trailer was a 16' foot VERY HEAVY old tandem axle car trailer with our 15 passenger Ford E350 Super Duty on board.  Probably around 7K lbs would be my guess.  The trailer was in such bad shape after our mishap in El Paso that we dumped her for half of what the sellers sold her to us for.  All in all, between the bus and the trailer we should definitely count our blessings that we made it as far as we did.  I am pretty sure angels were holding up that trailer.  I haven't even spoke about that whole ordeal.  We lost a tire AND RIM in El Paso annd didn't know it until we bottomed the trailer out on a bump near the RV park we landed in.  Kind of funny now that I look back on it, but I was very stressed when it happened imagining all of the bad things that could have if that tire would have blown at 55MPH with the van on her.  Something I will not soon forget.

[BigDougInOregon]

Zub,

That is excellent advice! Now can you tell Doug how he can bleed the air from the cooling system? I wonder whether it might be something relatively simple. You had a great suggestion about it just being the thermo, that would make good sense.

Doug, do you know if your bus had been sitting for a while? I wonder if it was, that would be the reason for some of your problems. BTW, I really don't think that you got burned on the deal. It was just a bit overpriced for the mechanical condition of it. Really I think that you bought a very reasonable bus. Keep you head up, and you will be able to get it running pretty soon.

God bless,

John

Yes, she had been sitting for months as far as I know.

[busshawg]

Don't want to make light of the fact you lost a tire, could have been very bad. However I did laugh a bit when I read this, only because it reminds me of predicaments I seem to get myself into. Kind of a selffish bugger I am huh?, haha , taking comfort that someone else has bad days too! Well that's all over now, thank goodness I'm sure.