Author Topic: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!  (Read 7051 times)

Offline NJT5047

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Re: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2009, 08:05:28 PM »
FWIW, MC9s have larger radiators and inlets than 8s and 7s.  Competition for inlet air in a 9 is not a problem.   There are (were?) thousands of MC9s running all over without heating problems.
Be careful with installing air inlet scoops on 9s.  They may cause odd airflows under some conditions...like cavitation or some such?  I've read that scoops just don't work on a 9...I forget the rationale?    MC9s with good radiators in properly sealed compartments with the correct radiators for the engine don't have heating problems...not that could be attributed to the air flow or chassis design.  If all the above is good and the engine heats....look at the engine.   The system works.  It isn't special, but it works OK.   
A 2 stroke must be driven correctly...drive it like you stole it! 
I'd suggest trying out your newly sealed and cored system before modifying anything. 
An MC9 engine intake is really  in a good location.  Away from dirt and crap when you pull off the road.  Minimal rain intake...what more could you ask for?  ;)

JR

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

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Offline buswarrior

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Re: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2009, 10:04:07 AM »
I'll back that up...popular wisdom is to get what you have working properly, never mind the add-ons.

Scoops have to be a lot bigger than the those little mickey mouse ears that you see out there.

Go see Fred Hobe's site

http://users.cwnet.com/~thall/fredhobe.htm

happy coaching!
buswarrior

Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area

Offline Lin

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Re: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2009, 06:17:15 PM »
I will probably get some scoops made when summer rolls in.  I will, however, definitely be buying some air conditioning condenser cleaner to put the radiators' exterior at least in the best possible condition.  I have seen spray cans of the stuff at HD.
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Offline NJT5047

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Re: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2009, 07:18:45 PM »
I will probably get some scoops made when summer rolls in.  I will, however, definitely be buying some air conditioning condenser cleaner to put the radiators' exterior at least in the best possible condition.  I have seen spray cans of the stuff at HD.

Before you spray that AC cleaner on your rads, very lightly rub your hand over the core fins.  If they are nice and solid, great.  If they flake off...be careful with cleaners. 
Old radiators (if they are old?) can be fragile.  Crumbly edges are a sign...indicates $$$$$$  ;)
JR
JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand

Offline rv_safetyman

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Re: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2009, 07:07:27 PM »
Sorry guys.  Did not open this thread, but a fellow bus nut pointed out that my name was taken in vain :)

We have discussed silicone hose in the past.  Silicone hose will out last rubber hose by at least a couple of times for over the road truck applications.  However, getting it to seal can be a real challenge.

In our applications, top grade rubber hose is plenty sufficient and at least half the cost of silicone.  As Clifford says, Gates Green Stripe is great hose.  There are two different versions, so be careful.  What you want to buy is what is called wrapped hose.  It gets that name from the fact that it is cured by wrapping it with spiraled-on wet nylon tape that shrinks when the hose is put in the autoclave to cure.  The shrink of the tape creates pressure on the materials (hose is on a mandrel) and compresses the components during the curing. 

The wrapped hose will have fabric like texture (you can see the spiral pattern on the hose) on the outside and comes in 3 foot long sticks. 

There is also green stripe hose that has a smooth surface.  It is reinforced and cured in a different process and is not nearly as robust.

Back to silicone hose,  I tried to reuse some of mine when I pulled the 6V92.  There was no way that I could make it seal.  Even went to dual spring clamps.  I did not try the glue (we use to call it monkey snot).  As Dallas pointed out is the trim cement.  When Dallas pointed it out the last time this subject came up, I was surprised that it worked, but he is the expert in practical solutions, so I will buy into it.  I do know the monkey/gorilla snot is great stuff.

I think making NEW silicone hose seal (on a very well prepared surface) is not quite as big a challenge as used silicone hose.  But, why pay the huge cost and then have to fight leakage when the GOOD Green Strip hose will work fine.

NAPA is a good source for the hose.  I am not sure they call it Green Strip, since it has a yellow label, but it is made by Gates and is top notch product.  Just make sure it has the fabric texture on it.

Jim

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Offline RickB

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Re: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2009, 01:25:11 PM »
Got the second radiator out and the overflow reservoir as well . I have 3 broken off bolts in the bottom of the radiators so I was not a happy camper at least part of the time working on the "big ole rollin' turd".
From the looks of the insides of the radiators this was definitely part of my overheating in the mountain issues, pretty serious build up on the core but nothing a little chemical bath won't fix.

Tried an EZ out on the first bolt and it didn't work. May leave them in I figure the guy doing my radiator has alot more tools to work with and it would probably be alot easier with the radiator disassembled I also don't want to take the chance of getting shavings in the coolant system.

All the seals were completely rotten and crumbling along with the overflow reservoir grommet/bushings.

I am going to try and fabricate or order replacement radiator seals but they didn't have expanding foam when they did the conversion on my bus so I amy take a few liberties here and there. Thank God for advances in technology.

I am thinking about using the walnut shell based bead blast  to clean up the blower compartment. There is no way I would get rid of all the dust and silica if I used regular sandblasting media to get the back end ready for paint. Has anybody used the walnut shell media to remove rust and paint before?

Also where am I going to get replacment dome head rivets and do I need any special equipment to rerivet the back corner cowlings back on? I planned on picking up an air riveter gun at Harbor Frieght this weekend. Does a pancake compressor have enough ooomph to run the air riveter???

Well, I have asked enough questions for one day now haven't I???

Thanks for always being there folks...

Rick
I will drive my Detroit hard... I will drive my Detroit hard.

Offline buswarrior

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Re: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2009, 09:55:37 PM »
If by rad seals you mean the rubber flaps around the outside to force the air through the rad and not around.... don't waste your time or money.

Put what you have back in there to act as the form for spray foam and you are done.

What is going to more positively block the air around and under the rads better than foam?

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area

Offline Nick Badame Refrig/ACC

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Re: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2009, 05:42:51 AM »
Hi Rick,

Yes, a pancake compressor will work with an air riveter.

BTW, did you look over my thread on Radiators from 2007?
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=5217.0

Good Luck
Nick-
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Offline lostagain

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Re: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2009, 07:32:25 AM »
BusWarrior, what kind of spray foam did you use around your rads?

JC
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Offline buswarrior

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Re: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2009, 08:58:53 AM »
Foam in a can from the building centre.

yup, I told you I'm a heretic.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area

Offline NJT5047

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Re: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2009, 06:54:10 PM »
Hi Rick,

Yes, a pancake compressor will work with an air riveter.

BTW, did you look over my thread on Radiators from 2007?
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=5217.0

Good Luck
Nick-

The compressor won't be your problem as long as it will pump 100 lbs, your choice of rivet gun can be.  Most of the 'Tool Outlets' sell a couple (or 3) rivet pullers.  Don't buy the smallest/cheapest unit.   IMHO, you gotta have at least a 3/16" gun.  Bigger is always better in rivet guns. 
Here's a link to Northern Tool that has a relatively inexpensive riveter that will pull typical SS 1/8 and 3/16 rivets used in buses.   The smaller rivet gun won't do the job.  You may be using aluminum in the engine room and radiator area, and they are easy to pop, but if you use it on the skin, SS rivets are tough. 
Below is a link to a minimal gun that will work for up to 3/16 SS rivets.   
http://www2.northerntool.com/air-tools/air-punch-flange-tools/item-157632.htm
I believe Northern, Harbor Freight, and about all other budget tool suppliers use the same manufacturer for these guns. 
Do you have shaved-head rivets?  If so, those require a specialty item to install....or caps.  You can install SS pop rivets, drive out the nails and drive in a cap.  Looks nice, similar looking to shaved heads.
If you have a row of rivet pulled, and want something to hold the panels pretty securely while you rivet them back on, look at a "Cleco" tool. They are temporary rivets.  They pop in place, and a tool removes them for reuse, once the permanent rivets are installed. 
JR

JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.”

Ayn Rand

Offline RickB

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Re: Removing radiators for rebuilding... This job sucks too!!!
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2009, 06:00:07 PM »
Well, it just took me 4 hours to grind, drill, remove the 16 rounded off, hard to get to, pain in the butt mounting bolts for the radiator bushings. I think I want to take a hostage!!!! Did I say that this job sucks??
I am trying to get the radiators to Central Diesel tomorrow and get them going on those and then I am gonna be shopping around for stainless steels bolts and aircraft nuts. I am also gonna have to be a fabricating fool to put the blower housing back together (also called a scroll) I figure some bubble gum, rivets,duct tape oughta get the job done...and then I have an idea of how I can modify the surge tank bushings and reuse them. All the jobs I am in the middle of would be so easy if they would have just made adjustments for those in charge of maintaining these behemoths in the equation of space needed to build one. I'm gonna get this thing back together again and she is gonna sail over the Rockies (well, okay 20-25 mph is not exactly sailing but we will clear Eisenhower pass!!!)

Thanks for all your help, encouragement and advice.

Rick
I will drive my Detroit hard... I will drive my Detroit hard.