Author Topic: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame  (Read 6034 times)

Offline Adarian

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small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« on: January 11, 2010, 11:15:31 AM »
I went to move my bus today as a storm is coming. Wanted to move it to firmer ground.
I parked it in one spot and the front wheels started to sink. As I was backing up to move it again the right rear wheel sunk.
It took all a matter of maybe 30 seconds before I knew what was going on.
The right rear wheel is also the drive wheel. I tried at first to dig around the sunk wheel. After digging the wheel out, I notice that the frame was sitting on the ground. I need to figure out how to raise the wheel up to put boards underneath it, so that I can get the frame off the ground.


1978 Gillig 636D
CAT 3208 Allison MT 643
NLAAF Fitness Bus
Fair Oaks Ca

Offline Zeroclearance

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 11:25:26 AM »
You are in a bind..   Do you have any steel drop decking to create a stable jack point under the bus?

With the wet ground you might need to wait awhile for the ground to stabilize.    The other option is to get a tractor or tow truck.

With the frame on the ground it is going to be tough to get enough room under the bus to "safely" support/block the jacks.

The risk of injury is very high with wet soil.   

Offline Jerry32

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2010, 11:29:00 AM »
True! you will hsve to dig a hole under the frame to put a jack and but some good support under the jack to get it up.  Otherwisse as stated befor a tow is the only other way out. Jerry
1988 MCI 102A3 8V92TA 740

Offline Busted Knuckle

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2010, 11:36:59 AM »
Adarian,
OK raising the wheel up is not going to be an easy task! But what I have done in the past is gotten to the air leveling valve and disconnected it. Then pushed up on the valve which will make it think that side of the bus (not wheel) is low and put more air in the bags. (if yours is the single rear valve set up it will still work by raising the whole rear up) Then you can get something jammed up under the wheel that it can grab as you drive onto it. (or if you can find sturdy blocking points you can block the body/chassis and deflate the bags taking pressure of the axle to jam something under the wheels) Either way unless you can get a jack under the axle itself on firm enough ground or support it's next to impossible to "raise" the wheels!
FWIW HTH.
Other option is to get a tow truck, tractor, backhoe, bobcat or other heavy unit to give it a tug a few feet untilyou can get traction. Or leave it until things dry up and get it unstuck! (don't ask me how I know about the last suggestion, or anyone that made it to our last little rally in September here! ;))
Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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Online bevans6

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2010, 12:04:59 PM »
I've rigged a lot of things, but in this case i wouldn't even start.  There is nothing good that's gonna happen with a guy trying to jury-rig a bus up on shifting ground.  Call a wrecker.  A big wrecker.

Brian
1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Allison MT-647
Tatamagouche, Nova Scotia

Offline Nellie Wilson

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2010, 12:24:52 PM »
Adarian -

Doesn't sound like the bus is blocking anything? If there's no emergency, just leave it be. Much safer, much less chance of doing damage. BTDT, Got the T-shirt.  ???

Nellie Wilson

Had to change a tire... >:(  got to put it on backward... :-\  still trying to fix it on photoshop... ??? ::) ???

Offline bigjohnkub

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2010, 01:36:17 PM »
My experience. TWICE I have been stuck. 1st at Texas music fest when campground became lake. Large  tractor hooked on front and pulled up to road where traction was available.  The 2nd time, I bought another bus 4107, and it had sank in the years it had been parked. Called my local wrecker and told him I needed a big one. He did not think I did, and brought a small one. He 2 parted
the cable , blocked his his wheels and pulled me right out. Cost about $100.
The tractor was free. Go see you neighbor.
Big John  Tyler Tx PD 4903-188 & 4107
871 dd, 4 spd Fuller.
LOVE MY BUS!!!!
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Offline JohnEd

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2010, 02:18:05 PM »
You are going to think I am silly on this BUT.  Ever heard of a "snatch strap"?  Well the 4X4 wheelers have a ton of stories and I know that all my Bud's have one in their rig.  It is a nylon strap for towing and you must know that nylon stretches mightily.  The trick is that you hook up the strap to each vehicle and then, with a lot of slack mind you. you floor the towing vehicle, bus or truck or car, and let that strap s t r e t c h and when the vehicle stops moving you lock the brakes and sit there.  If your truck weighs 5,000 pounds it puts 5.000 plus pounds of pull on the stuck guy.  You can't get that many pounds of traction pull but you can easily get that much energy stored up in that strap.  They make many different ratings of straps and , obviously, a 50,000 bus would snap that little 5K strap if you weren't careful.  It works beyond reason.

Just my 2 cents worth,

John
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Offline RJ

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2010, 02:42:01 PM »
Adarian -

As you know, your Flx has a big "A" frame for the rear suspension that attaches to the rear of the fuel tank.

If this frame has sunk into the ground, you've got a bigger challenge than simply attempting to block up the wheels, or, for that matter, even jacking up the body.

(For those busnuts unfamiliar with a Flx Metro, the coach is a transit-style monocoque that has been, literally, "snapped" together.  The wooden floor is the strongest part of the coach.  It requires a $pecial jig fixture that keeps the back end together just to remove the powertrain cradle.)

Because of it's construction, I'm not sure if the two big towing eyes located under the panel between the headlights would work in this situation.  I'd be afraid of it actually pulling the front end cap off the coach completely, if it's that stuck.

What you might be able to do is dig down beneath the rear air bellows sufficiently enough to get an air-over-hydraulic 20-ton jack underneath, sitting on something sufficiently large enough to spread the load over a wider area than the jack itself.  Since the bellows is attached to the very end of the "A" frame, jacking at this point might give you the room to slip some plywood or similar under the drive axle tires.

The front is a conventional "I-beam", all the normal caveats apply at that end.

Another thought:  Since Sacratomato RTD ran a bunch of Metros, you might wander over to one of their garages and ask for a shop foreman.  Tell him the problem, and see if he thinks one of his guys might be interested in helping you out.

JohnEd's comment about the "snatch strap" is valid.  The late Richard Bowyer (Driving Miss Lazy) used them, or was familiar with them, can't remember which.  An archive search should come up with more info.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)
RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
S13406 1978 MC-5C Converted 6V71/MT-644
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Cheney WA

Offline Adarian

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 03:15:36 PM »
Amazing how fast a bus can sink. It is supposed to rain here for the next two days. I was hoping to be able to get it unstuck before it sinks more.
I guess the greatest concern is the A frame sitting twisted for too long as the wheel is hanging in the air.
The part the frame that is resting on the ground is on compacted gravel, very hard to dig under it.
I thought that I would be able to raise the sunk wheel using a forklift and raise it just high enough to stick a board underneath it.
As I was able to dig two foot in front of it and one foot to the side and to the rear of the wheel.
I figured when the forklift sat the wheel down the frame would raise up off the ground and I would regain enough traction to move it.
I guess I will wait for the rain to pass and then call a big wrecker.

Thanks for all of the ideas.
1978 Gillig 636D
CAT 3208 Allison MT 643
NLAAF Fitness Bus
Fair Oaks Ca

Online bevans6

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 03:44:27 PM »
If you try to raise it with a  fork lift, the fork lift is going to sink in.  If you put a board under it, the board will break, unless it's rail-road tie in it's essential board-ness.  I get things stuck in my back 40 every year, I just wait till my neighbour with the tractor gets home and he pulls me out...  One time I may even realize all the things I'm gonna try while I wait for him won't work, and save myself a lot of time and stress...   ;D
1980 MCI MC-5C, 8V-71T from a M-110 self propelled howitzer
Allison MT-647
Tatamagouche, Nova Scotia

Offline fe2_o3

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2010, 03:48:27 PM »
In 2005 Ian Woofenden dropped the right rear wheel of his 04 off the side of the road. He was able to jack up the wheel and block it so he could move it onto the road...Cable
Sofar Sogood
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Offline Ednj

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 04:00:48 PM »
Ha I was just there
MCI-9
Sussex county, Delaware.
See my picture's at= http://groups.yahoo.com/group/busshellconverters/
That's Not Oil Dripping under my Bus, It's Sweat from all that Horsepower.
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Offline Ednj

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2010, 04:01:13 PM »
see
MCI-9
Sussex county, Delaware.
See my picture's at= http://groups.yahoo.com/group/busshellconverters/
That's Not Oil Dripping under my Bus, It's Sweat from all that Horsepower.
----- This space for rent. -----

Offline Adarian

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Re: small soft spots, bus is partially resting on frame
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2010, 04:03:54 PM »
In 2005 Ian Woofenden dropped the right rear wheel of his 04 off the side of the road. He was able to jack up the wheel and block it so he could move it onto the road...Cable

That is what I was thinking of doing with the forklift.
The funny thing is how I just missed parking on that firm spot right behind and right in front of the soft spot.
The part the frame is resting on.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 04:09:36 PM by Adarian »
1978 Gillig 636D
CAT 3208 Allison MT 643
NLAAF Fitness Bus
Fair Oaks Ca