Author Topic: Alternative fuels  (Read 14754 times)

Offline wal1809

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Alternative fuels
« on: March 16, 2010, 05:30:20 PM »
Post up fella bus people!!  If you have pics or any alternative fuel information post away.  Mods can we get a sticky here.  There might be more and more interest here now that Dino diesel is reaching the $3.00 mark again.  Tomorrow I will post pics of my bio diesel processor and the start of my two tank WVO for the bus.
1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com

Offline wal1809

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 06:16:08 AM »
Warning pic heavy

This is the saddle tank I am turning into a WVO tank.  All I need to do is clean it up and weld the base to the bottom so it can be safely secured in the bay.


This is my collection unit called a Super Sucker.  Under the white bag on top is a vacuum pump.  I draw a heavy vacuum on what used to be a propane tank.  When I get to my restaurants I put the end off the hose, which has a pvc wand on the end, into the barrel and about 50 seconds later I am done.  It works like a charm.


These are some extra collection barrels and the big white cubies are for oil storage to be used int he process.  The far left white cubie is my finished product which goes straight into the tank.  The big stainless cubie is methanol which I buy in large quantities to get the price reduced.  If you can see the barrel just inside the door that is the top of my oil dryer.  I back my trailer up to it and throw the collection hose into it.  I then use a compressor to air up the propane tank and it pushes the oil into the dryer.  From there by valves I can run the oil to wherever I want, storage or processor.


Here is the first dryer, then processor then settle tank.


After the settle tank is the red oak chip barrel which is the start of filtering the settled bio D.  I don't know what the red oak chips do but it cuts the water usage for washing the BioD by 75%.  Beyiond the red oak barrel are two wash tanks.  I can wash about 70 gallons of fuel super clean in about 3 hours.  Then it is to the final dryer equipped with 10 micron sock filters and then on to the storage outside.





1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com

Offline philiptompkjns

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2010, 06:29:03 AM »
sure you're cooking bio-fuel...  :P



looks like a serious operation though, this thread has potential.
1990 102a3... Just got started, don't  know  what I'm doing.

Offline wal1809

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2010, 06:58:37 AM »
MAn I just tytped up a long thread about why I make fuel and boom it is gone.  I aint typing it again.  CRUD!!!  Bu to reply yes I am am serious about fuel making.  I would probably make a lot more money if I were brewing whiskey.
1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com

cody

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2010, 07:02:24 AM »
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« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 09:38:55 PM by cody »

Offline wal1809

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2010, 07:45:06 AM »
I guess my question would be that while I think the idea is great can you pull up to a diesel pump and fill the bus with regular diesel fuel if your out on the road.

Yes I can.  I don't want to and will avoid that.  I intend on keeping the in place fuel tank full of regular diesel, 150 gallons.  THe silver tank in the pic will be full of Waste Vegtable oil.  A band heater will heat that tank and the tank will be completely insulated.  Just prior to the filters I willl super heat the oil with a heat exchanger (20 feet coiled stainless steel tube in a 5 inch pipe, welded shut, 180 engine water pumped through the 5 inch pipe).

By way of 3 way electronic valves I can switch to burn WVO after the engine temp reaches 180 degrees.  When I get about 5 miles from destination then I will switch back to regular diesel and purge the lines.  So I can start up and get to temp on regular diesel.

I am sure you could start up on WVO in Texas. It is freakin hot down here you know.  The problem is the oil not exploding into a vapor.  With hot oil you lower the viscosity.  When it hits a hot engine it vaporizes the fuel and sends it out the pipe.  If it does not a
1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com

Offline philiptompkjns

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2010, 10:37:19 AM »
hey wal, what part of texas you live in? are you willing to give tours of the operation and answer questions?  ;D

Just curious, how much do you have invested in that setup?

Also, if you are on the road and did not want to buy fuel, wouldn't your range be limited to your tank size?

I've seen a much smaller setup in the bed of a truck that was fully self contained and seemed to work.

Also, if you are useing your coolant to heat the fuel, cold starts with it would be impossible right?
If you had an electric fuel heater, would that make starting off WVO the same as regular? or would you also have to have a block heater?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 10:41:42 AM by philiptompkjns »
1990 102a3... Just got started, don't  know  what I'm doing.

Offline wal1809

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2010, 11:17:19 AM »
hey wal, what part of texas you live in? are you willing to give tours of the operation and answer questions?  ;D

Just curious, how much do you have invested in that setup?

Also, if you are on the road and did not want to buy fuel, wouldn't your range be limited to your tank size?

I've seen a much smaller setup in the bed of a truck that was fully self contained and seemed to work.

Also, if you are useing your coolant to heat the fuel, cold starts with it would be impossible right?
If you had an electric fuel heater, would that make starting off WVO the same as regular? or would you also have to have a block heater?

I live in the sticks between 2 very small towns, Wallis and East Bernard.  If you are interested in making your own fuel then yes I am willing to help, but I will ask you to do a couple of things before you get here.  Research and know what you are coming to see.  You can learn a lot from the internet, I learned it all from the internet.  Once you get the knowledge and have a plan in mind then come to see me and we can fine tune that plan to fit your needs.  An autonmted sytem is a must.  I mean in can be manual valve this and manual operation that.  But you never ever want to pick up a bucket and pour from here to there.  You will work yourself right out of business.  If you come here and have not done the research then your going to be lost when I try to explain it to you and we will be waisting our time.

I don't really know the exact cost because I am a junk yard picker if you ever met one.  I will slam on the brakes for a good looking junk yard.  If I had to guess it is in the neighborhood of $1300 to $1500.  But i scrounged pumps and wheeled and dealed for a lot of stuff.

If I am on the road and have to purchase fuel then I will.  I just don't want to.  I figured I can load enough fuel to get from my house to Las Vegas and back without stopping for fuel.  That will work.

So far as the heater.  My point was the vehicle will start in Texas on WVO; However it is not good in the long run.  The best way to explain this is this way, I got this from Greasecar.com I believe.  Take a pan with a tablespoon of oil and put it on the stove.  Turn the heat on and wait until it gets really really hot.  The oil will turn to a black gel, smoke and stick.  Now take that same pan with no oil and heat it up to the same temp.  Now throw a tablespoon of oil into the pan after it is super hot.  It won't stay in the pan.  It will flash burn and disappear.  Same concept as we are using for WVO.  Cold oil into a cold engine is going to leave a sticky mess over time, it is not saying the engine won't start on cold oil.

An electric heater would be great.  I don't want to pay $300 bones for one.  Not when I can build a heat exchanger out of a 5 inch X 16 inch stainless pipe/ with 20 feet 3/8 ID stainless tubing coiled inside and water from the engine block circulating around the tubing on the inside of the pipe.  I can do this for not a lot of money.  It will feed 180 degree fuel to the motor.
1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com

Offline Dreamscape

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2010, 06:31:43 AM »
Now I know why we wanted to come and visit! Amazing contraption you have, and you look serious. I hope this thread doesn't get lost, as I really think it should be a Sticky somewhere on this board. Contributions to this will make a good read and attract a lot of attention. This subject is fascinating.

As dino fuel gets more expensive, and it is, more and more will be wishing they had done what you have.

Paul
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Offline wal1809

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2010, 01:06:42 PM »
Yessir the higher the price of DINO the more calls I get.  I wish I had cleaned up a bit.  I went on a 400 gallon marothon the last time I amde fuel and had to walk away from it for a while because I was busy.  I am gearing up and will probably be brewing this weekend since I am on call at work and can't go anywhere.

I wish this would get stickied. 
1984 Silver Eagle Model 10 6V92 Allison auto tranny
www.snakebreaker.com

cody

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2010, 01:13:18 PM »
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« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 09:39:31 PM by cody »

Offline JohnEd

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2010, 01:39:57 PM »
Paul said:Now I know why we wanted to come and visit! Amazing contraption you have, and you look serious. I hope this thread doesn't get lost, as I really think it should be a Sticky somewhere on this board. Contributions to this will make a good read and attract a lot of attention. This subject is fascinating.

I said that. I said that before.  I said that before Paul.  Course I was probably after 40 other guys but I beat Paul.  At least this time.....but I was first.  Now make it a sticky or I'll keep talking.  Comments, Zub?


Wal,

You confuse me....not that there is any challenge in that.  You keep saying that you are burning WVO.  WVO doesn't use methanol in any sort of process.  WVO gets filtered and dewatered and then burned.  Bio Diesel gets processed with methanol.  WVO you can get on the road and filter it on the fly and burn it to fuel your trip.  BioD isn't made on the road except by some clever and committed souls.

I am truly interested in your operation whatever fuel you are making.  Wanting someone to self familiarize themselves with "the process" would seem to be overkill for WVO as it is a filter and evap process.  Like I said....I'm confused.  I really wish I could visit as I have 300 gallons of WVO that I can't process now and I would like to share it and possibly bank a portion.

PM me if you have a mind to.
John
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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Offline Dreamscape

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2010, 01:44:49 PM »
No taxes on bio or wvo fuel in Texas. At least not yet anyway! ;D

http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re_biodiesel-incentives.htm
Becky and Paul Lawry, On The Road
Travel Blog - http://dreamscapetravels.wordpress.com/
Bus Blog - http://dreamscapesilvereagle.wordpress.com/
______________________________________________________

Our coach was originally owned by the Dixie Echoes.

cody

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2010, 02:12:05 PM »
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« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 09:40:30 PM by cody »

Offline Dreamscape

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Re: Alternative fuels
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2010, 03:36:35 PM »
When they start taxing bio or wvo, it will be like moonshine. Lots of backyard stills and G men running around to catch the perps! ;D
Becky and Paul Lawry, On The Road
Travel Blog - http://dreamscapetravels.wordpress.com/
Bus Blog - http://dreamscapesilvereagle.wordpress.com/
______________________________________________________

Our coach was originally owned by the Dixie Echoes.