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Author Topic: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?  (Read 12886 times)

Offline morefire

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Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« on: November 29, 2010, 11:41:22 AM »
Hey Guys,  quick question.  I searched and didnt find the answer I was looking for. 
I want to know if I can fit a Cummins ISX engine into a 1999 MCI 4500 coach.
Can it be done? has anyone done it on here with pic's?

Thanks
David G
Toronto, Ontario
2009 Bluebird 40' Coach
Cummins ISX-675HP!!

Offline CrabbyMilton

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2010, 01:07:46 PM »
Not offering mechancal advise here but, the 2011 MCI E4500 and all of the MCI's will have this engine(ISX) as standard equipment so it's not out of the relm of possiblities.

Offline blue_goose

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 01:40:58 PM »
The ISX is a smaller engine than the series 60, but why would you want to make the change?
Jack
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Offline morefire

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2010, 02:18:11 PM »
The ISX is a smaller engine than the series 60, but why would you want to make the change?
Jack

An ISX15 600hp is smaller than a series 60?

What about the engine cradle, and being able to bolt it in?
David G
Toronto, Ontario
2009 Bluebird 40' Coach
Cummins ISX-675HP!!

Offline robertglines1

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2010, 03:25:11 PM »
Go for it you might be the first! why not..wiring may be a minor problem. always easy to go back with what you took out..Keep records of your transformation.. Sonny put a cat in a eagle! progress is always great.
Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana

Offline busguy01

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 04:17:34 PM »
I just happen to have a spare 60 series from a MCI 4500. If interested drop me a note.
JimH
Started with nothing - still have most of it left!
1963 Eagle 01 with Detroit 60 series done (Gone-sold!)
MCI EL3 in progress. raised roof & Slides
2009 Revolution 42 Sticks and staple
Summer - Yankton, South Dakota
Winter- Sebastian, Florida

Offline RoyJ

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 05:11:38 PM »
Not offering mechancal advise here but, the 2011 MCI E4500 and all of the MCI's will have this engine(ISX) as standard equipment so it's not out of the relm of possiblities.

IIRC, that's the new 11.9L ISX isn't it? If it is, I also assume it's physically smaller than the 15L version?

I'd say go for it. Most modern big blocks are very similar in overall size. The electronics part may be a little tricky, especially if the ISX doesn't have its own transmission. Once done though, you can safely tune an ISX to 650hp recreational rating, preferrably with an EGR delete (99 engine didn't need them). It's be an absolute powerhouse that's for sure!

Offline morefire

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2010, 04:03:31 AM »
I just happen to have a spare 60 series from a MCI 4500. If interested drop me a note.
JimH

Thanks, but the Coach that I am looking at has a perfectly fine series 60 in it,  I just have an option to acquire an ISX600 and would love to install it in the coach.   If I were to do it, I would sell off the Series 60 that is in there now. 
I am just a bit of an engine head, and if I am going to customize a coach, I'm starting with the engine ;D
David G
Toronto, Ontario
2009 Bluebird 40' Coach
Cummins ISX-675HP!!

Offline Busted Knuckle

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 06:14:12 AM »
"I am just a bit of an engine head, and if I am going to customize a coach, I'm starting with the engine ;D"

More power, more power! Just like our hero Tim the tool man Taylor says.
;D  BK  ;D
Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

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Offline morefire

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 06:49:16 AM »
"I am just a bit of an engine head, and if I am going to customize a coach, I'm starting with the engine ;D"

More power, more power! Just like our hero Tim the tool man Taylor says.
;D  BK  ;D

All my friends call me that :-[


But I think it would be an awesome coach with an opened up ISX600 installed.  Re programed to bypass all the emissions stuff and run an opened up muffler, and reset it to 650hp ;D


I am thinking real hard on this one....I feel like getting it done.  I just need to find someone who could wire up this engine in a MCI coach.  That's my biggest concern.
David G
Toronto, Ontario
2009 Bluebird 40' Coach
Cummins ISX-675HP!!

Offline rv_safetyman

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 07:36:29 AM »
Wow, I thought I was crazy!!! :o ;D

The other piece of the puzzle you need to look at is the transmission.  I assume it is a World and that it communicates with the Series 60 via J1939.  If that is the case, you will need to make sure your ISX has the J1939 activated and that it is set for the transmission.  With a Series 60, the factory has to activate the J1939 if it is not already activated.  Changing the transmission setting can be done with a ProLink type unit.  Not a big deal, but it is these kinds of details that you will need to deal with.

The physical mounting of the engine is just a matter of fabrication.  Fabricating the wire cable may not be all that bad.  You might even be able to use the Series 60 cable wires and reconnect them to the Cummins ECM.  Depending on the DDEC series, I have the wire numbers defined on my project pages and you could get the same information for the ISX.

The engine mounts are the simple part.  All of the plumbing connections will require a lot of fabrication.  You are ahead of the game in that the bus has a charge air cooler and the radiator is probably sized correctly (not much of an issue with 4 strokes). Air cleaner should also be properly sized, but the plumbing will need to be fabricated. Not sure what all you will get into with all of the accessories (belt drive for the fan, alternator drive, PS drive, engine AC drive, etc.). 

Your dash gauges may be driven by the J108 data bus, or may use separate sensors.  If they are separate sensor type, you will need to transfer them - again, not a big deal.

All things considered, this conversion is consideribly easier than one from a mechanical two-stroke, but it really begs the question:  WHY????

The conversion will require at least 100 hours and you will only be gaining bragging rights and perhaps a few less minutes up the big hill. 

If you do it, be sure to document it here.

Jim

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
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Offline belfert

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2010, 07:37:30 AM »
Why not install a souped up 14 liter Series 60 if you want more power?  It would be a lot less work.  

I envy somebody who is in the position to buy a relatively modern coach and then install a totally different engine.  I would love put a larger Series 60 in my bus, but what I have works so I can't justify it.
Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN

Offline morefire

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2010, 08:02:29 AM »
Why not install a souped up 14 liter Series 60 if you want more power?  It would be a lot less work.  

I envy somebody who is in the position to buy a relatively modern coach and then install a totally different engine.  I would love put a larger Series 60 in my bus, but what I have works so I can't justify it.

I am just a fan of the Cummins over the Detroit.   not saying anything bad about the Detroit.... I just much rather have a cummins ISX.
Honestly I rather have a 600hp CAT C15, but its the cummins that I have access to, and I cant afford to go buy a brand new CAT.

Im just weird I guess.  The wife is more concerned what the interior would look like, and what colour the cabinets would look like.......... mean while,  I would sleep on an air mattress,  I just care what engine i have in it and the rest of the mechanics.  ;D
David G
Toronto, Ontario
2009 Bluebird 40' Coach
Cummins ISX-675HP!!

Offline TomC

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2010, 08:17:46 AM »
ISX Cummins is a big block Diesel-like the Caterpillar 3406, C15 and C16, along with the Series 60 Detroit and new DD15 and DD16.  It has been proven over and over again that the Detroit Series 60 will get better fuel mileage then the ISX.  Now with the DD15 and DD16 with turbo compounding (second gear driven turbo that returns up to 50hp back to the engine), the Detroit DD series is again the top fuel mileage champ-even with all the smog devices.  In fact, the DD15 is returning the same fuel mileage as the pre 1998 Series 60-which was the mileage champ then.
The new Cummins 11.9 ISX is a redesigned ISM-same basic size, but 350lbs heavier.

The ONLY advantage to a Cummins is that it is the only independent engine manufacturer left.  This would facilitate being able to have most any truck dealer work on the engine.  Currently Freightliner, Western Star, Kenworth, Peterbilt, Volvo and Mack offer Cummins.  International, which has shot itself in the foot, only offers their Maxxforce engines that are based on the excellent MAN engine, but International has mucked it up by installing twin turbos, twin EGR coolers, three radiators to stay away from Urea exhaust fluid.  By 2012, International will change their system.  Just as a note-J.B. Hunt took delivery of 150 Internationals.  They were able to get about 35 on the road-the rest wouldn't run right.  Hunt made International take back the other trucks.  Good Luck, TomC
Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.

Offline morefire

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Re: Can an MCI E-4500 be fitted with a Cummins ISX?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2010, 09:25:40 AM »
Im aware that the detroits are a little better on fuel...... but I want an ISX
(since I cant get a new C15)
David G
Toronto, Ontario
2009 Bluebird 40' Coach
Cummins ISX-675HP!!