diesel over to biodiesel 6v71 ????

[JohnEd]

I've seen plenty of pictures of the residue from WVO making deposits on the engine, and the slobber goofing up the valves that within 100,000 miles have to take the engine apart to clean it and possibly do a valve job.

Most people that are self employed are making at least $50.00/hr.  When I was driving, is making an average of $1.10/mile (back in the 1990's when fuel was down below $1.50/gal).  Averaging 60mph that would put me at making $66.00/hr.  Most plumbers make around $90.00/hr.  What does your auto shop charge?  I know our truck shop charges $110.00/hr.  Believe me, if you were in business for yourself, anything less then $50.00/hr wouldn't be worth the time.  As an employee, that's a different story since you don't have the risk of being in business for yourself.  Good Luck, TomC

There are just to many people burning WVO without problems for anyone to say that this isn't a viable process. It is! I have seen the pics of engines with the ex port nearly closed up with carbon and muck.  Those people were using "cold" oil.  The others that were damaged didn't properly settle and filter the oil.  Contaminated fuel is bad regardless of whether it is BioD, WVO or DinoD.

John

[wal1809]

I've seen plenty of pictures of the residue from WVO making deposits on the engine, and the slobber goofing up the valves that within 100,000 miles have to take the engine apart to clean it and possibly do a valve job.

Most people that are self employed are making at least $50.00/hr.  When I was driving, is making an average of $1.10/mile (back in the 1990's when fuel was down below $1.50/gal).  Averaging 60mph that would put me at making $66.00/hr.  Most plumbers make around $90.00/hr.  What does your auto shop charge?  I know our truck shop charges $110.00/hr.  Believe me, if you were in business for yourself, anything less then $50.00/hr wouldn't be worth the time.  As an employee, that's a different story since you don't have the risk of being in business for yourself.  Good Luck, TomC

There are just to many people burning WVO without problems for anyone to say that this isn't a viable process. It is! I have seen the pics of engines with the ex port nearly closed up with carbon and muck.  Those people were using "cold" oil.  The others that were damaged didn't properly settle and filter the oil.  Contaminated fuel is bad regardless of whether it is BioD, WVO or DinoD.

John

  Thank you handling my light work there JohnEd.

[happycamperbrat]

You guys cannot change the world.... why argue about it? There isnt enough wvo to go around anyway. Let it be....

[TomC]

Current production of Biodiesel would run the country for about 6 weeks.  Good Luck, TomC

[belfert]

Wasn't the original question about biodiesel, not WVO?  Most engine manufacturers say not to go over B20, but that is with current engines.

I suspect the biggest problem you might have with biodiesel is filter clogging and fuel lines possibly breaking down.

[happycamperbrat]

Wasn't the original question about biodiesel, not WVO?  Most engine manufacturers say not to go over B20, but that is with current engines.

I suspect the biggest problem you might have with biodiesel is filter clogging and fuel lines possibly breaking down.

Biodiesel is made out of processed wvo. With current engines, I really dont know..... I have read repeatedly that they should not attempt to run vo because of the spray pattern of the injectors and because of it fooling the fuel sensors in the computers........

[Jeremy]

My car is petrol but I happened across this warning applicable to the diesel versions that is printed in the owners manual:

"Fuels produced entirely or partly from vegetable materials - such as rapeseed oil or methyl ester made from rapeseed or other plants - are unsuitable for use in diesel engines and will invalidate any warrenty that may have been appilcable.

Such fuels are becoming increasingly widespread, but despite their apparent eco-friendliness, their reduced lubricity compared to conventional diesel fuel can damage the extremely precise tolerances found within the injection system. Premature wear of the vital sliding bearings in the injection pump is a particular problem, together with the possibility of leaks in both rubber and plastic components throughout the system.

There is also the possibility of severe build-up of carbon on the injector nozzles, together with increased combustion noise, poor cold-starting, a reduction in power and an increase in fuel consumption of up to 10 per cent"


That's a pretty damning statement about the use of even 'proper' biodiesel, never mind either new or waste veg oil. Which wouldn't stop me using it, but only in a vehicle I could afford to throw away.

Jeremy

[happycamperbrat]

Jeremy, what engine do you have?

[Jeremy]

As I said my car happens to be petrol, but that comment from the owners manual refers to the diesel versions of the same car (7 series Beemer). Sadly the BMW straight-6 diesel is also used in the L322 Range Rover, and it was that application that I was interested in. But if (or rather when) I do get an L322 that will most definitely be a vehicle that I couldn't afford to throw away

No question that modern diesel car engines are at least one generation ahead of our bus engines (probably 2 or 3 generations ahead of a 2-stroke Detroit), but presumably there's some pretty precise tolerances and critical bearing surfaces inside our injection pumps too.

Jeremy

[wal1809]

I have read the same from all my engine manufacture manuals.  We started our jetta on 100 percent bio diesel when it had 25000 miles.  It now has 130,000.  No problems with it at all generating from bio diesel.

My bug has the same engine 40,000 miles b100 no fuel related problems.

Excursion 45,000 b100 The only fuel related problem i have had was the screen tubes int he tank were blocked with rust and gunk.  I understand this is a common problem with Ford diesel with or without bio diesel.  So you choose which one to blame it on.  That was a 200 dollar fix.

Tractor melted a 1.5 foot return fuel line.  $1.69 and 10 minutes to fix.

Kubota zero turn lawn mower. Fuel pump went out.  Unknown if bio d was the culprit or not.  New pump 1 hour to install and $40.
I am still very very sold on alternative fuels

[luvrbus]

I don't have a dog in this hunt but you guys need to check the John Deere site they have been using bio since the 80's have their own special little additive for it fwiw that said it was the farmers that started the movement towards the alt fuels


good luck

[JohnEd]

As I recall, when the Ultra Low Sulfur hit the scene and the engines were failing, adding motor oil to the fuel was said to prevent pump failure.  I then heard that the zero sulfur BioD was even better at lubing and B10 was supposed to be a fix.

Excerpt from: http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Lubricity.PDF

A 1998 review paper on fuel lubricity worldwide2 showed that diesel fuel in the US and
Canada is some of the poorest lubricity fuel found in the entire world (see Figure 1
attached). Of the 27 countries surveyed, only Canada, Switzerland, Poland and Taiwan
had poorer lubricity fuel than the US. With a mean fuel lubricity of just under the
recommended specification of an HFRR wear scar diameter of 460 microns, fully 50% of
the US fuel was found to be above that recommended by equipment manufacturers.
These US data are with diesel fuel refined to meet the current EPA restriction of 500 ppm
maximum sulfur specification. The severe hyrdrotreating required to reduce fuel sulfur
to the new EPA 2006 specification of 15 ppm sulfur maximum will cause a further
reduction in fuel lubricity compared to today’s diesel fuel, and is of concern to engine
and fuel injection equipment manufacturers.

Lubricity Benefits Provided by Biodiesel
The addition of biodiesel, even in very small quantities, has been shown to provide
increases in fuel lubricity using a variety of bench scale test methods. A diagram of the
various testing apparatus can be seen in chart provided by Lucas (attached). The two
most popular bench test methods for lubricity are the Ball on Cylinder Lubricity
Evaluator (BOCLE), and the High Frequency Reciprocating Rig (HFRR). The BOCLE is
commonly used to evaluate the lubricity of fuels or fuel blends but does a poor job of
characterizing the lubricity of fuels containing lubricity additives, while the HFRR is
commonly used for both the neat fuels and with fuels containing small amounts of
lubricity enhancing additives. end quote

It stands without question that fuel quality is regulated by the respective Gummints in every country mentioned(and not mentioned).  It would seem that the Europeans are more effective at protecting us from the abuses of the oil refiners than our domestic brand of Gummint.  I spent three years over there in the late 60's and never once noticed a D truck belching smoke and the Pa Turnpike was awash in them and I thought all that black smoke was "normal".  I haven't located the authoritative paper on the subject but I did read a few years ago that the D engines lasted longer in E and ran cleaner thru their life span.

John

[luvrbus]

My brothers C18 Cat marine engines could use B30 fuel without modifications above that they were modifications needed,those were high dollar engines also over a 100 grand each.
Like it or not it is the future with the predicted fuel price of over 6 bucks a gal in 2012 don't laugh guys it is on the way