leveling system

[doug mars]

 :)hello everyone hope all are well  i purchased a leveling system for our 4106 but the instructions say to unhook the auto levelers and i dont want to do that i have seen some coaches that have solenoids so the coach could use auto level on highway and then the manual when parked i would like to know how this is done so i could do it on ours thanx in advance for all the help Doug and Tinda Mars 4106/3044 okeechobee,fl

[Len Silva]

Here is the simplest way I can come up with.  Install a 2 way solenoid vavle (Skinner) and a tee between the leveler and the air bag.  You will need to install two of them in front even though there is only one leveling valve.
When the solenoids are energized and your leveling system off, normal leveling will occur.  You could wire these into the engine run circuit or just a switch.

[RTS/Daytona]

Hi

I Make/sell the G4 - Campsite Air bag Leveling System - I've been invited by the South/East BUS NUTS to give a short presentation of my System (which is currently installed in my RTS conversion) at thier October 27-29 Bus Conversion Rally in Hoboken GA.

Here's some general Info

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D.P. Solutions GEN-4 "Campsite Auto-Leveling Override System -

You supply the labor-I supply all the Valves / Control panels / Wire/ Instructions / Wiring diagrams

The Pneumatic Solenoids Valve Selection was very important- Valve selection criteria:

. Auto/Manual valve must be bi-directional - (withstand pressure differentials / air flows from either direction)

. Auto/Manual valve - must have a 100% duty cycle rating - It is always energized during normal bus travel

. No minimum pressure required to operate the valves

. Raise Valve - must be bi-directional in order not to back flow if supply air leaks down

. Flow rate - Must not impede the normal auto leveling air flow

. Flow rate - Must be large enough to raise / lower air bags in a reasonable amount of time -

. Operating Pressures - Appropriate High Pressure rating - Appropriate minimum operating pressure rating

 

1.The GEN-4 input (supply side) needs to connected to the suspension air supply - This is accomplished by tapping into the line that supplies the bus auto leveling valve

2. The GEN-4 device is installed in between the Bus Leveling valve and the air bag

3. The Auto/Manual Solenoid Valve isolates the leveler from the air bag system - this valve is energized for auto leveling (normal bus traveling) and connects the Bus Auto Leveling valve to the Air Bag(s) to provide normal factory auto leveling function.

4. The Auto/Manual Solenoid Valve is de-energized during hold and manual leveling operations to block the Bus Auto leveling valve and provide a path for the manual raise/lower solenoids

5. In Manual (adj) mode the raise and lower solenoids can be energized to allow air into or deplete air from the air bag(s) for manual leveling operations - This system provided approx 10" of up/down movement in each of My RTS Buses’ far bumper corners

6. An optional "GEN-4" COMBINER VALVE is available to tie air bags, not normally controlled together during auto leveling, to be grouped together to balance the number of air bags controlled per corner during manual override leveling.

 Example - RTS Model (01-04) have leveling valves for each single front air bag and one leveling valve for all 4 rear air bags. If the GEN4 is installed at each of the OEM leveling valve points (3 point system) the rear would take 4 times longer (4 air bags) to raise or lower - if this is not acceptable - then (during manual adjust only) the combiner valve can tie the 2 front air bags together to be controlled by one GEN4 device and 2 GEN4 devices can be used to split the rear left and right apart to control only 2 air bags each.

3 Point Systems are recommended (I believe 4 point leveling can twist the Bus) but 4 point leveling is available

<>
$425 Gen-3 Three Point System (24 volt)--> (Qty 3) Gen-4 Campsite / Auto-Leveling Override solenoid units
                                                                         (Qty 1) 3 point Control Panel with 4 Carling switches
                                                                         (Qty 100ft) 16 gauge 4 conductor trailer wire spool

$525 Gen-4 Four Point System (24 volt)---> (Qty 4) Gen-4 Campsite / Auto-Leveling Override solenoid units
                                                                         (Qty 1) 4 point Control Panel with 5 Carling switches
                                                                         (Qty 100ft) 16 gauge 4 conductor trailer wire spool

Add $69 for OPTIONAL GEN-4 COMBINER VALVES

Pete (RTS/Daytona)  386...672..0571 hawk_ii_mail at yahoo.com

[RJ]

Pete -

Great system, but. . .

What about those of us who have 12V coaches?

 

[RTS/Daytona]

Ross

Unfortunately - I Can Not Find 12 volt solenoids for the price I pay for the 24 volt solenoids

But I'm still looking - sorry

[H3Jim]

Do you need pressure gauges on the manual adjust? 
Is it possible to overinflate a bag / corner?

[RTS/Daytona]

Do you need pressure gauges on the manual adjust? 
Is it possible to overinflate a bag / corner?

I could be wrong - but It's my "personal opinon" that in a static condition like campsite leveling - it's pretty hard to over inflate the air bag.

The way I look at it - when the air is at normal ride height pressure (?? 40-60 psi ??) and your traveling at 70 mph with a 30-40 thousand LBS fully loaded bus and you come over a good rise in the highway - I would bet air bags go over 120lbs ??

But for those that want to avoid this situation - then I suggest:
(1) - Use a 60 regulator in the line that supplies all the air fill (raise) solenoids of the (G4-Campsite Air Bag Override Leveling System)
or
(2) - Tee the G4 fill / Raise supply line in after the OEM leveling Valve instead of before the OEM Leveling Valve - (this will always limit the fill pressure to whatever the bus leveling valves were designed/adjusted for but it WILL delay the G4 fill/raise function - cause OEM levelers have a delay built into them   

[H3Jim]

How many of these do you have in service now?  Anybody ever have any issues like that?

[RTS/Daytona]

How many of these do you have in service now?  Anybody ever have any issues like that?

About a dozen units sold already -

had one leak upon installation - sent him a replacement unit - he promised to send the bad one back for me to check - he never sent it back (Larry - if your reading this - do the right thing and send me my unit back - It's been 6+ months now) - I believe that he got something caught in the valve seat during installation)

NEVER had another problem - those of you who have installed them - speak up (pro or con)

BUT BE AWARE -- Because installation of these devices will require that the purchaser modify the existing bus air suspension system design. I absolutely require a signed "waiver of liability" prior to purchase. (copies available upon request)


 

[H3Jim]

Can the bag can be inflated too high and damage it that way as opposed to too much pressure?




You are correct, the bags are designed to take not just the weight, but the weight when it hits a bump.

Of all the difffernt ways to level, it sure seems like one of the best, most practical ways to do the leveling.  Conceptually I like Sean's Odyssey where he installed the linear motors on the auto leveling control. He can adjust the height on the fly using the stock road leveling system, but I'm not sure of the reliability.  On same note is Fast Fred's cable control of the stock system, although I don't think Fred actually has his working yet.

[RTS/Daytona]

Jim

I like the linear actuator system myself - But I believe that type of system has a flaw

A linear actuator replacing the Leveling valve control rod - will leave the leveling system in an "ACTIVE LEVELING" state all the time

as you walk around the coach / as people enter and leave / the possiblity exists that the system will always be adjusting -

UNTIL the point when there is LESS air pressure in the suspension tank than in an air bag that it's actively trying to inflate - at this point it will start draining air (deflating) from the air bag - to increase and equalize the pressure in the suspension tank - and the bus will start leaning to one side

any further movements of the bus that would normally cause the air bag to raise will now lower the air bag instead - if the suspension tank is a least than the air bag it's try to control - and so on and so forth

yea yea f/f - I know - you don't believe it will happen - let me know after you install your cables and find out for yourself

Pete RTS/Daytona

[H3Jim]

Pete, Can the bag can be inflated too high and damage it due to being extended too high? I'm particularly interested in the rolling lobe bags on my coach.

I have check valves in the lines keeping the flow of air from going back in to a low tank which definitely helps, but the leveling valve also dumps air if it thinks that bag / side is too high.  I notice it when its windy, the coach gradually settles due to the rocking.

[RTS/Daytona]

Pete, Can the bag can be inflated too high and damage it due to being extended too high? I'm particularly interested in the rolling lobe bags on my coach.

I have check valves in the lines keeping the flow of air from going back in to a low tank which definitely helps, but the leveling valve also dumps air if it thinks that bag / side is too high.  I notice it when its windy, the coach gradually settles due to the rocking.

Jim - If the design of your bus is such that you believe that it could be damaged by over inflating the air bag and lifting the coach to hign - then either use a regulated lower pressure supply lines for the override devices or just tee to the output side of the OEM leveling valve

Pete

[H3Jim]

At this point I have no idea if it could be damaged that way, thats why I was asking the question.  I don't want to  go through the extra expense / lesser functionality if its a non issue.  I have the fast fill valves, that are fast enough to correct the lean as I'm going around a corner.  I don't want to lose that capabilty for an issue thats a non starter.

Maybe Prevost knows, I can ask them the next time I'm in there.

Thanks

[JackConrad]

When we installed the leveling system on our MC-8, I called Mohawk Industries (the MFG of our rolling lobe airbags). They recommended to not exceed 85 PSI. In actual use, we have found that about 70 PSI gives us full lift.  Jack