June 23, 2018, 04:48:20 PM

Author Topic: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.  (Read 7596 times)

Offline ceieio

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2006, 02:08:50 PM »
Chaz - with respect to the cold start situation, my 8V71 doesn't like to start so quick when the temps hit the mid to low 40's.  I am at 18K miles on an out of frame, so I am not really broke in yet.  I use my Webasto heater or the electric block heater before I try to start the bus when it is stone cold and in the 40's or below.  With the block warmed, it starts with just a touch of the button.

Craig - MC7 Oregon
Craig MC7 - Oregon USA

Offline bobofthenorth

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2006, 02:38:26 PM »
I have lots of experience with cold weather.  Around here we have 10 months of winter and 2 months of poor sledding.  Our 2 stroke Detroits don't like chilly temps.  Anything you can do to warm the block will be a big help.  We use the ProHeat down to about -15C.  After that we add block heaters and battery blankets.  Batteries lose capacity rapidly with cooler temps.  Its amazing what a difference a bit of heat on the batteries can make.

R.J.(Bob) Evans
Used to be 1981 Prevost 8-92, 10 spd
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Offline DrivingMissLazy

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2006, 02:56:53 PM »
Not re-polarize, you restore residual magnetism. Single lead alternators rely on residual magnetism in the stator laminations to initiate the charging process. Residual magnetism will only provide a few volts, but that is enough to get the charging process started.
Richard

Richard, i didn't know you could polarize a alternator, i thought you could only polarize a generator. a alternator it would blow a diode.

       Pete

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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a good Reisling in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming:  WOO HOO, what a ride

Offline Chaz

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2006, 03:43:59 PM »
Thanx for helping me out Russ. I have been busy in my studio (and trying to start my bus). By the way, I didn't know what kind of trany I had!!  :-\

Glad to hear (sorta) that 40's and below make it tough for the old bird to start. That is what it is. I was told a heater for the antifreeze is better than an oil heater, TRUE??? Either way, any suggestions on which one and where to get it??
I have lots of experience with cold weather. Around here we have 10 months of winter and 2 months of poor sledding.


Too Funny, Bob!!!!!!!!!! LMAO!!!  :D

Thanx for that explaination Richard. I guess I was the one who was using the wrong terminology. I'm hoping it is good to go now.

Russ, so it is ok to manually shift down the trany? I thought of that, but didn't know if it would hurt it or not. Thanx for the other info too. I have a cousin who trucks and he said he would see if he could find someone to run the rack. I'm not having any luck. I live a fair ways from any city with busses.

Thanx again guys. I'm going to go back out and see if she will start!
  Chaz
Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein

Offline brojcol

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2006, 03:53:38 PM »
I can't speak for the Antifreeze heater, but I had an oil type heater on my 4107.  It worked great.  After about 10 minutes, it was ready to go, but that's in Mississippi where it rarely got below 40 in the winter.
"Ask yourself this question...Are you funky enough to be a globetrotter?  Well are you???  ARE YOU?!?!

deal with it."            Professor Bubblegum Tate

Offline Buffalo SpaceShip

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2006, 05:45:56 PM »
Chaz, I have the same bus, same tranny... 4108 w/ a V-730. I regularly get 7.5 - 8mpg, no toad, keeping it just under 70mph. That's around 1900rpm, IIRC. I do have a fresh out-of-frame rebuild, but C65 injectors (one size up). I get lots of black smoke at altitude (mile high or more), but not so bad nearer to sea level. I'll eventually put stock injectors in her.

A DD with minimal to moderate wear (and a 24v starter w/ charged batteries) should fire off on the first revolution on down to 40deg. Under that, maybe a bump starter, wait 30 sec., bump again, etc. Cold weather will make batteries less effective AND make the 40wt. turn to syrup. Massive current is then surging through the start wires. In another life I had a sad Fishbowl conversion (eh, Paul  ;D) with a very tired 8V71. It took an act of God to start her when temps got much less than 50deg. One of the P.O.'s really did her in with ether, I suspect. There were cans of the stuff under every nook and cranny.

Now, ether can work wonders on cold starts, but is easy to cause damage by the uninitiated (myself included in that catagory). A block heater is the best thing you can do to improve your starts in cold weather... $50 or less, and maybe an afternoon to install. Batts will still be cold (and suffering), but if the engine's toasty, it should turn over every time (at your latitude, anyways) no matter how c-c-cold it is.

Also, put a voltmeter on your alt (if your dash gauge isn't working) and verify 28v or so of charging voltage, and min. 24v to start it. Otherwise your alt. and/or batts have issues. Another thing to check is your start wires and grounds. I've BTDT with my old 4106... changing the start wires made a night/day improvement in starting her. Here's a link with all of the sordid details...

Welcome to the busnut fold. And you've found the nicest place on the Web to coorespond about busses and their nutty owners. ;)

GMCs rule   couldn't resist...

Brian B.
Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO

Offline Chaz

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2006, 06:20:01 PM »
I can't speak for the Antifreeze heater, but I had an oil type heater on my 4107. It worked great. After about 10 minutes, it was ready to go, but that's in Mississippi where it rarely got below 40 in the winter.

Thanx!!! I am thinking about both. (I am a somewhat known for overkill!  ;))

Just curious Brian, what does an overhaul cost? I hope I don't have to find out personally and in detail, but I was just curious. Also, how can you do one in with ether?? (I am all new to this!)
I think I am going to put a voltmeter also. It doesn't have one.

 Thanx for the welcome guys. I know I will be bugging you all quite a bit and hopefully I can help in some way in return!!

 Take care!
   Chaz
Pix of my bus here: http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g279/Skulptor/Motor%20Coach/
What I create here:   www.amstudio.us
 
"Imagination is more important than knowledge". Albert Einstein

Ace

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2006, 06:50:03 PM »


GMCs rule   couldn't resist...

Brian B.

Maybe so... but,


 "Prevost Prevail"   

I couldn't resist either!!!     ;)

Ace

Offline Homegrowndiesel

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2006, 10:14:14 PM »
After buying our bus I thought something was wrong when it would not start.  :'( >:(Our bus had an ether injector built in but was disconnected by previous owner. I use that port just before the blower
Just a whiff and it starts cold. I like to heat it with the block coolant heater if time allows, or I can now fire up the webasto. :)

If you use to much ether you can kill the engine. The problems most encounter is spraying it into the air filter, by the time it is drawn into the engine there is alot in the pathway and the detonation breaks stuff like pistons and head gaskets. Do NOT over do the ether.

Bill
Aerodynamic Eagle & MCI 102a3, 102d3 and NABI series 50 transit. Busnut x4

Offline Buffalo SpaceShip

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2006, 10:32:41 PM »
Maybe so... but,
 "Prevost Prevail"   
I couldn't resist either!!!     ;)

Let me qualify my statement to say, despite my longstanding love of GMCs, I'd trade busses with Ace any day. Or Nick... Or....

 ;D
Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO

Offline Buffalo SpaceShip

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2006, 10:42:29 PM »
Just curious Brian, what does an overhaul cost?

The previous owner mentioned $9k or so. He also put Jakes in it, which are great for here in CO. I bought the bus because of the rebuild and new-ish V-730. Anything else on the conversion that I didn't like, I can fix up or make my own.

Like Tom C mentioned in a preveious post, I'd vote for bearings and rings in most cases to breathe new life into an ailing DD. An out-of-frame like done to mine seems extreme on an older bus. A decent take-out might even be a better idea for older rigs. Labor rates can really push the cost of a rebuild.

HTH,
Brian B.
Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO

Offline Paso One

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2006, 06:18:07 AM »
( In another life I had a sad Fishbowl conversion (eh, Paul  ;D) with a very tired 8V71. It took an act of God to start her when temps got much less than 50deg. )

But lots of good stuff to rob :)
68 5303 Fishbowl 40' x 102" 6V92 V730  PS, Air shift  4:10
1996 MCI 102 D3

Offline pvcces

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Re: MAIDEN VOYAGE- Success......... mostly.
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2006, 07:35:10 PM »
For what it's worth, 28 volts will NOT recharge very cold batteries. It will take more like 30, depending on the temperature.

Charge voltage needs to be set for the conditions.

Tom Caffrey
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher
Ketchikan, Alaska