Looking for Mini-Splits

[jjrbus]

(snip)   How would a soft start capacitor be added?                                JIm  

     Yeah, if "soft start" is the big thing for a $1700 unit versus a $900 version, I'd like to know that, too.

     BTW, super woodwork in your bus, JJ.  And is there info on your webpage about your leveling system?  Do you use the suspension airbags or separate air jacks?  And what air conditioner do you have installed now?  

Thanks, sold the bus, had roof air.   

 The air system is super easy to do, or very complicated!  I used the original airbags, unhooked but left the original system in place. Would be better to start a different thread, lots of good idea's out there.   JIm

[Tikvah]

Bob, or anyone else with a mini-split, I would really like to know how you set up your outside units.  Two are too wide for a bay, did you stager them?  How do you get enough air movement?

Dave

[robertglines1]

Dave; mci8 tin tent  staggered 2 in one bay and added a cheap fan from wall mart to suck extra air in from under floor. secret is to get fan circle about 18inch diameter to blow outside bus. not hard for outside one but might need a little duct work for inside one.  I also put my front one in spare tire compartment. Vented thru floor of that compartment and added  vents for air intake. When you get one you will notice the exhaust side of fan is only about 18 inches in diameter.(condensor)  If you go to prevostcommunity  web site under HVAC  prob page 3 or 4 there are some inside pictures of my install also google  robertglines1 photobucket pictures.   All is there is bus pictures. I think there might be some of the 98 mini-split pic there. Will try to do better with pictures.   Bob

[Seangie]

Dave,

Not sure about others but I am in the market for mini-splits and can share what I have learned.  After spending way to many hours to finally found the perfect unit it arrived damaged....more on that later.

First things first - Really make sure you measure and think through where the inside and outside units are going.  Go to a local AC supplier and take a look at the inside and outside units.  Every manufacturer makes a different size outdoor and indoor units.  The number of zones make a difference in the size of the outside unit as well.  Make sure you have room to run the lines.  Think 3" of lines and electrical (same diameter as your black tank dump).  Make sure you have a plan to run the drain from the evaporator (inside unit).  For the outside unit make sure you have enough airflow in and out of the bay the outside unit will live in (see the CFM specs for the unit)

If you are looking at using more than one unit it may just make more sense to have a single outside unit and 2 zones for the inside.  Keep in mind that 2 outside units take up quite a bit of space (think airflow) Also - Better to get 220 than 110 unless you are going to try to run off your inverter.  I would warn you though that if you don't have a true sine wave inverter you will have problems.  Also - Even if you do have a true sine wave inverter the demand from an AC unit may take a toll on the inverter unit.  (I am not an expert but know enough to be dangerous - ask around if you plan on using your inverter)

Most of the manufacturers use the same compressors.  Controller boards may be slightly different but they all have the same basic make up.  I think for our purposes of using in a Motor Coach the cheaper the better. Only because you'll have to replace it again anyways and if you are not living 24/7 in the motor coach you'll most likely never notice a difference.  Through conversations with AC techs, installers and sales people I have found that the Mitsubishi Mr. Slim is the Creme de la Creme and the cost and size of units is represented through this. Also the cheaper units don't have as many "FRU" parts (field replaceable) so when they die not all parts are replaceable as opposed to the more expensive units that you can order parts for.

Most installers have told me that the electronics for mini-split units are very sensitive to fluctuations in voltage.  Make sure to install a line conditioner in line with the unit and your electronics will thank you and the unit may last as many as 2-3 years longer.

Get a variable speed "inverter" unit.  The reason the non-inverter units are cheaper is that they are no longer being made (for the most part) and manufacturers are dumping them.  An inverter (converts AC to DC power) allows the  AC compressor to run at variable speeds so that when it's 80 degrees outside and your AC is set to 75 the compressor will run slower and save power and when it gets up to 95 the compressor ramps up and keeps up with the demand.  A non-inverter unit will click the compressor on at full speed until the air gets down to 75 and then click off, then click on at full speed again when the air needs to come back on.  It causes higher demand on the electrical system of the mini-split and the electrical system of the motor coach.

As far who to order from - I can only speak from my experience.  I really searched long and hard for the smallest inside unit I could find (these units can be huge) I found a manufacturer (grunaire) that made inside units that were 30" wide.  Perfect for where we needed to place them.  After asking a ton of questions I ordered through acwholesalers.com. (hvacstores.com - all the same company)  The units arrived within 5 days.  I was quite surprised.  When I opened them though the outside unit was completely damaged, like it had been dropped.  The first thing I thought was that I was going to get completely hosed and it would be a long hard battle to get either a new unit or refund from this company (cheapest prices on the web that I could find).  I called them immediately and sent an email as well as filling out a complaint form from their website.  Come monday morning, I was called at 9am from the company and they were amazing through the whole process.  They apologized and accepted the return without me having to pay a cent. The person I spoke with said that they would not be able to replace the unit as it was no longer being made and they had no more in stock.  They offered a deal that was great but unfortunately it would have required 2 outside units and that wouldn't work with our setup.  They did take care of all shipping costs to and from our house.  I would say that it was the best experience I have ever had with an online store.

Good luck in your adventure and make sure to take lots of pictures and tell us all about the install.  Remember - If we dont see pictures then it never happened ;0

-Sean
www.herdofturtles.org

[luvrbus]

I hope the mini splits workout for you guys I been told over and over by Hvac contractorshe  they do not like generator power and I have seen it up close in a friends bus and at Taylors Coach in Phoenix sucking on a power pole I think they would be ok

 I see different manufactures of the inverter compressors they don't all use the same compressor if you are impressed with the inverter compressor roof tops have those also

 I saw a American Eagle with the inverter compressor with Aislu roof tops I thought they were Coleman  I thought damn the Chinese can copy good  

[pvcces]

For what it's worth, we just placed our 14th Chinese heat pump into service. So far, the problems have been tolerable. A small unit developed a slow leak in the inside coil; we replaced it. One small compressor quit pumping and we replaced it with a waranteed unit. A large unit had a misconnected wire in the indoor unit. This was an easy fix, once we identified the problem. We have had two capacitor failures, quick and easy fixes.

The first one went into service 4 years ago; most have been the only source of heat down to about 5 degrees. We have a mix of brands and almost all of the parts are interchangeable. All were bought for well under $1,000, including shipping.

We have not installed any in a bus, so we can't predict what problems that might cause.

We are planning to install another ten or so.

Good luck.

Tom Caffrey

[sledhead]

Dave  I have a split unit and it works fine so far no problems at all (just over a year now) . In side unit 9000 btu 9 amps is over the front win 30 " wide 10" high 8" deep .I ran the 1/4 " and the 3/8" line inside 28' to the outside unit in 1st compartment . I installed all and when it was finished I payed a ac guy to test and add 410 ref. for the extra line run $99 bucks. total cost of all inc extra fan $1200.00 . 18" filtered intake from the side (old ac compartment behind driver side front wheel ) used custom made duct off standard outdoor unit to a 8" in line fan through floor witch turns on with org. unit fan and is controlled with a dimmer switch for speed.I use a 2000 watt inverter off batteries or run off my 3500 watt inverter gene. or off the pole. Lots of ac while we are parked but on the road need more after outside is over 95 deg. work in progress    dave   

[luvrbus]

Talking to my Hvac contractor all heat pumps now days with the 410 under the high pressure and new type compressors will heat down to colder temps in any unit,

The new Carrier 6 ton roof tops he is installing for us 16 seer units 3 phrase say 20 degrees but he says they will heat at lower than 20 degrees  

Lol I told him I didn't care for the heat part just cool baby,cool baby for Az in August that is what I am looking for I could care less about heat

[Tikvah]

I'm convinced I'm doing this.  I think I'm convinced that I'm going to purchase Soleus 9000btu heat pump inverter type.  I can get them for $725 from MiniSplitShop.com

I'm still unclear how I'll install the outdoor units.  There will be two outdoor units because I don't want to depend on 230V.  I only have 115V.  So, finding a way to install them with good air-flow will be my biggest challenge. 

The inside units should be rather simple.  One above the windshield pointing straight back. And one over the bed pointing straight forward.

So, Thanks for the input so far.  Any additional information and pictures about installation of your outdoor units is helpful.

Dave

[luvrbus]

I have to ask as I have read the warranty on the mini splits of different brands  if something happens to unit in a bus under warranty how is that covered do you just tell a story and tell them it not in a mobile environment or what ? 

I hate roof tops so I hope the splits work for you guys but you sure give up space and do a lot of work to install a mini split

[Tikvah]

I don't know about warranty, but they are inexpensive enough.

My reasons are:

1.  Quite running.   I hate noise of the rooftop units
2.  No roof warts  (I have four Fantastic Vents)
3.  Great directional air flow
4.  Low Power Draw
5.  Did I mention Quiet
6.  Easy to replace (this is a guess)

[luvrbus]

What is the big deal about low amps running on a generator they like running at 3/4 of a load and the mini are inexpensive but how about replacement in a bus after everything is built  

I watched Taylor Tours in Phoenix removing 4 of the mini splits in a Prevost it didn't look like fun to me lol 

I don't know much about the home mini splits but this I do know if they were better and cheaper you could take it to the bank the converters and the marine world would be all over the units like white on rice, me I am going to take a wait and see position myself

[jjrbus]

I have been under the impression that the "Professional" converters stole their ideas from the conversion community and were the last ones out with anything?
                                                                                       JIm
                                                                         
                                                                         

[luvrbus]

I don't think so lol looks the opposite to me

[Oonrahnjay]

My reasons are:
1.  Quite running.   I hate noise of the rooftop units
2.  No roof warts  (I have four Fantastic Vents)
3.  Great directional air flow
4.  Low Power Draw
5.  Did I mention Quiet
6.  Easy to replace (this is a guess)   

     Yeah, I'm pretty big on the Low Power Draw part but (besides the directional air flow), it seems to me that these things put out BIG amounts of cooling air.