New Cummins V8

[twostick]

The reason Navistar is offering Cummins engines again is because their own engines won't meet emissions standards without SCR/DEF and they had to take Cummins back as a supplier to get the use of their technology. Navistar's refusal to go with it themselves when they had the chance blew up in their faces.

Kevin

[belfert]

If Navistar had been able to create working engines without the need for urea they would likely have had a lot of buyers.  Urea/DEF creates an extra cost for truckers and DEF isn't available in bulk everywhere yet.  Not all trucks are over the road with easy access to truck stops with bulk DEF.

[TomC]

If you have a 23gal DEF tank (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) on your big truck or bus, typically they will burn a gal of DEF every 350 miles. So that 23gal tank will go for nearly 8,000mi. Or in a 120,000mi year, you'd have to fill the DEF tank 15 times.

The last time we had big Diesel engines getting good fuel mileage was pre 1998. Now with the redesigned engines-mainly Detroit Diesels DD engines, the EGR has gone from 25% down to 10%-and EGR is not new technology-my '84 Mercedes TurboDiesel has it (446,000mi-no overhaul yet on either the engine or transmission). EGR is just about the only smog device on the engine now. All the smog devices are after the engine-hence the engines have actually gotten dirtier burning with programming concentrating on fuel mileage instead. Diesel exhaust is so clean now, Natural gas is just a bit cleaner-but a whole bunch more expensive to run (maintenance and oil change wise). We usually don't put exhaust stacks on anymore-just run down exhausts, no smell. And we're seeing 80,000lb trucks in the 8mpg range with some over 9mpg on the flats. No such thing as choked out smog engines anymore. Good Luck, TomC

[Dave5Cs]

So what happens to Human health spraying Urea-DEF around and how many cows and sheep will have to contribute?

Dave5Cs

[belfert]

DEF isn't very expensive per mile, but it still adds another system to a truck that could break down and cost money.  If a diesel engine could meet current emissions and get the same mileage as a urea engine I'm sure trucking companies companies would love it.

I would consider another diesel vehicle even with DEF if I could actually save money over 200,000 miles considering higher cost of fuel and higher cost of the engine.  For a pickup pulling a large trailer diesel is a no brainer for the extra torque.

[wg4t50]

While I am a Cummins fan, Other than the 903 V8 the other V engines Cummins had vears ago, non of them were very good for highway use, the 903 was best used in Coast Guard boats.  SO I am hoping the new little feller can stand the test of time for Cummins sake.  Me, I will stick to my 6.7 Power Stroke Fords, and stay clear of the Navistar version.  Also stay clear of anything Fiat and Nissan (Datsun).

[chessie4905]

   Remember the Minnie Winnie Winebago with the diesel? They had the nasty habit of dropping valves when the owners pushed hem going down the interstate.

[luvrbus]

I saw a bill for repairs on a DEF system at the FreightLiner dealer here it was $22,000 bucks caused from freezing up north, I take it the stuff freezes at about 12 degrees and is a big concern with truckers

[chessie4905]

   I noticed that Walmart sells the fluid last time I was there. Here's some info on it for those that are interested:
 
http://www.wccressey.com/Cummins%20Filtration%20DEF%20FAQ.pdf

[TomC]

What we're doing with new trucks to combat the very steep costs of maintaining the DEF systems, and all the systems on the new trucks (3 computers that have to talk to each other), we're selling additional warranties. If you up grade to a 5yr/500,000mi Vehicle warranty (1yr/100,000mi standard), 5yr warranty tow (first $550.00), 5yr/500,000mi Detroit EW4 that covers aftertreatment, trans (10spd) and axles typically come with 5yr/750,000mi warranty, the entire truck will be covered for the first 5yrs (many get rid of the truck at the end of the warranty period). The cost? An extra $11,025.00. But divide that by the 500,000mi, and you come up with 2.2 cents/mile! When I was driving, I figured 10 cents/mile maintenance. Install a set of injectors ($850.00 ea), have a couple of electronic clitches and redue the A/C at least once, you've used up that $11,000.00.

DEF system is made to freeze. When the fluid thaws, it starts to flow-doesn't affect the engine performance. To have a $22,000 bill, the driver must have put something other then DEF into the system. The entire system costs $22,000-and that's the aftertreatment "muffler", and DEF system. There's always more to the story then just having a $22,000 bill. The DEF system is really a simple system and works very well-Europe used it 5yrs before we did. And the drivability of the trucks is truly amazing, quiet, responsive, etc. Good Luck, TomC

[luvrbus]

I don't know Tom the same outfit you work for that is in Vegas are the ones that made the charges and that is what they told him happen + they do have a good reputation about overcharging along with bad service there I don't about your store in LA   

[saddleup]

After the hell i had this fall with a duramax diesal pickup, over def issues, and then finding out all the hell other people was haveing in pickup and big trucks, i never buy a def engine, even under warrantey, trucks all over North Dakota broke down with def problem, cant get one in a shop in less then 30 to 45 days.
I will be sticking to gas pickups, not that much difference in real world mileage in a work truck between gas and deisel,anyway then you got higher opperateing cost all around on the deisel, lots of companys going back to gas in 3/4tons and 1 tons.

[TomC]

Just went to the L.A. auto show-huge show. Most had engines cut open. The Chevy 6.2 liter, and the Dodge 6.4 liter hemi are both 2 valve per cylinder push rod engines made extra heavy duty for trucks. All Ford engines are overhead cam engines, sans the Diesel. If you're going to put lots of miles on the truck, or pulling a big trailer all the time, a Diesel makes sense. But low mile, the gassers are really good engines.

In Masters of Harmony (barbershop chorus) where I'm V.P. Operations, we have a '95 Chevy 3/4 ton with 7.4 liter engine (454) with throttle body injection and starts every time. With overall weight of 16,000lbs pulling out equipment trailer, we get all of 6mpg. Truly heavy duty engine with oil and trans cooler in the radiator with auxiliary air cooled trans cooler. But at 75,000mi, would not made sense to have a Diesel (bought new). Just wish the trans was heavier duty (4spd overdrive). Have had 2 overhauls already-but it is always pulling the trailer. Good Luck, TomC