CHP and DOT busting truckers at Loves....

[mung]

I thought that is a rule in most states?  Most states are calling motorhomes used to transport anything used to make money a commercial vehicle subject to the same regulations as a typical commercial vehicle.  Even a motorhome pulling a trailer with a race vehicle in it is considered commercial if the race has a cash purse. 

So my regular minivan is a commercial vehicle?  Because I regularly transport my music gear in there.  What about if I bring my laptop home from work in my car?  I use it to make money at work.

[belfert]

I know that in Minnesota a typical passenger car licensed to a business or to an individual is basically the same.  The only difference might be in the cost of insurance.  No difference in type of license required to drive the vehicle.

Now, a motorhome is totally different if commercial or personal.  Anybody can drive a personal motorhome (in most states) with just a regular old driver's license.  A motorhome with a GVW over 26,000 lbs will be treated as a commercially vehicle if licensed commercially.  Driver has to have a CDL and medical card.  Vehicle must have a periodic DOT inspection.  Hours of service apply.  Air brake endorsement applies for vehicles with air brakes.

There are a whole host of reasons why many would rather have a motorhome as a personal vehicle instead of commercial.  The day my bus conversion is treated the same as a commercial vehicle is probably the day it goes up for sale.  I have no problem getting a CDL and medical certificate, but no way my friends will go through all that.

[mung]

I guess retirees in their big diesel pushers have to be careful too, because if they carry their golf clubs in their motor home and play a for cash tournament, they are breaking the law. 

Wait, is the rule that you can't get paid or that you can't make a profit?  Because I sure don't make a profit when I play a gig.

[belfert]

So my regular minivan is a commercial vehicle?  Because I regularly transport my music gear in there.  What about if I bring my laptop home from work in my car?  I use it to make money at work.

Notice I said motorhome, not a mini-van.  A vehicle over 26,000 lbs GVW typically requires a CDL.  The main exception is for motorhomes and other recreational vehicles.  Government is saying that a motorhome over 26,000 lbs GVW no longer qualifies under the exception for recreational vehicles if it is used for commercial purposes.

Regardless,if you think this is right or wrong, it is what government agencies are doing.  I won't put the name of our rocket group on the trailer we use as I don't want someone to think we are commercial.  We are just a group of friends who like rockets and came up with a group name.  We have no formal organization and don't do anything that makes money.

[belfert]

You can't get paid.  The parents who buy a $100,000 motorhome with a $10,000 trailer to take their kid to go-cart races certainly aren't making a profit when the prize is $100 or $200.  Government in some states considers racing for a cash prize to be a commercial venture, even if it is just a hobby for the racer.

I believe John316 here went fully commercial with his bus since he was using his bus to sell stuff.

[MightyThor]

So my regular minivan is a commercial vehicle?  Because I regularly transport my music gear in there.  What about if I bring my laptop home from work in my car?  I use it to make money at work.

Well, maybe but probably not.  In addition to the use of the vehicle, most states also have a weight requirement for a vehicle to be considered as a "commercial Vehicle" by definition.  That also includes combination of truck and trailer, usually between 22k and 26k lbs and heavier.  Also some passenger restrictions to 10 or more people for a bus.  So a mini van might be used by a business but is probably not heavy enough or hold enough people to be a commercial vehicle by statute.   

[mung]

Everything I am reading says that it has to be involved in interstate commerce to fall into those regulations.  So transporting my gear in the bus and showing up to a gig at a bar is not interstate commerce.  Now one could argue that if I bring CDs and T-shirts across state lines that I am dealing in interstate commerce, so fine, I won't do that. 

Within Florida I should be fine.

With the interstate commerce rules I can see why someone selling something would have to have a USDOT registration. 

[RickB]

As most of you know I have actually been pulled over and had my bus in the MN DOT parking lot for over 6 hours a couple years back. Here is the truth plain and simple in MN: If you carry anything in or towed behind a vehicle that exceeds 26,000 lbs. with RV plates, that in any way has provided transportation to or from a destination in which you received anything that didn't accompany you before arrival, you can and will be charged with Tax Evasion for not having both commercial plates and insurance and a CDL. That means if you win or earn so much as a trophy for a go cart race or a self defense exhibition or are paid for a single CD, appearance fee, performance fee etc. they can and will cite you for tax evasion which is a felony. I know it's wrong, egregious, awful and unfair but it is the law and the law tends to win in court.

RB

[mung]

Right, so make sure to spend that $100 you made before you leave the state. 

[bevans6]

It's also been the law for a very long time, decades in fact.  I've heard of people getting dinged leaving circle track Saturday night races.  Horse racing is another big one, particularly the amateur events where the kid wins a trophy.  Not interstate, not even inter-county.  Profit has zero to do with it.  The car races I used to go to always gave exactly no prizes of any kind, for this reason.  It's just a line you cross at your peril, that's the end of it.  Automobiles are definitely treated differently, so many are used by salesmen, etc.  I think the cross-over is 10K GVWR, but I really haven't looked into it in a long time.

Brian

[mung]

Florida has an interesting take on the race stuff.

(25) “Commercial motor vehicle” means any vehicle which is not owned or operated by a governmental entity, which uses special fuel or motor fuel on the public highways, and which has a gross vehicle weight of 26,001 pounds or more, or has three or more axles regardless of weight, or is used in combination when the weight of such combination exceeds 26,001 pounds gross vehicle weight. A vehicle that occasionally transports personal property to and from a closed-course motorsport facility, as defined in s. 549.09(1)(a), is not a commercial motor vehicle if the use is not for profit and corporate sponsorship is not involved. As used in this subsection, the term “corporate sponsorship” means a payment, donation, gratuity, in-kind service, or other benefit provided to or derived by a person in relation to the underlying activity, other than the display of product or corporate names, logos, or other graphic information on the property being transported.

[TomC]

Calif states you can drive with a Class C license up to a 3 axle house car, no longer then 40ft and pull up to a 10,000lb trailer. Anything over 40ft, you need a Class B non commercial license. Any trailer over 10,000lb or fifth wheel over 15,000lb you need a Class A non commercial license. Good luck, TomC

[bobofthenorth]

DOT and the troopers can make your life miserable but what will really bite is if your insurer declines to pay a liability claim.  Those of you who think you are smarter than the cops need to phone your insurance agent AND GET IT IN WRITING whether or not you are covered for whatever you are doing.  The opinions of everyone here are just that -- opinions.  They won't pay the bills if the stuff hits the fan.  My experience has been that insurance companies are quick to cash my cheque and slow to pay out.  Don't give them an easy way out.

[digesterman]

Going back to another topic in this thread, we can blame the unions for bad cops keeping their jobs. Happens all the time, bad cop protected by his union, city/county/state not willing to take on that fight.

[Lin]

I thought the problem was teenage immigrant welfare mothers on drugs!