Lost an Airline in Vallejo, CA

[buswarrior]

It would be prudent to deal with each of these symptoms/failures alone.

If they prove to be related later on, that's fine. Compressor drives don't partially fail and start working again...

A busnut goes flapping their gums to a mechanic about their theories... the mechanic quickly learns a) there is a gold mine of ignorance to be exploited, b) you distract from the traditional trouble shooting strategy

Either way, time that is being paid for gets wasted.

Was the brake adjustment ever confirmed? Block the wheels, both sides, and put a tag on the steering wheel that brake adjustment AND parking brake function has not been confirmed. Nobody works on it without being informed.

Don't be driving that coach anymore until the proper functioning of the air system and parking brake has been proven correct.

Engine first, then the rest.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[Ryker]

Thank you, Buswarrior! Ted does not think that high pressure would seize the engine but he is not certain. One more tidbit, when I brought my old hose into the hydraulic shop, the tech said there was a lot of carbon build up in the old air line. I did not mention this to Ted but he said, "The "ping" tank or line or main check valve to the main air tank could be carboned up (restricted)." Not sure how you go about removing carbon from inside the airlines.

I feel I am still jumping around a bit, and maybe these 2 things are not related. Today I am going to try to turn the engine to see if it is truly seized and go from there.

Don't worry, I do not think I will be driving it for awhile! I actually have an appointment to bring it to Terminal Truck & Frame tomorrow morning to have the braking system gone through but I doubt that is happening. They are the ones who did all of my suspension work.

[buswarrior]

Just let the engine guy do his diagnosis, don't confuse that issue with air system chatter.

Did the Hydraulic shop sell you a correct metal hose, suitable for use right up against the hot compressor?

To sort out the air system, and be sure that it is safe to move the coach any further on its own, you need someone who knows exactly what an old pre-FMVSS 121, DD3 brake system is supposed to do, and knows EXACTLY how to completely test its functionality.

This person must be able to identify if this brake system has been modified or otherwise been meddled with by someone who DIDN'T know what they were doing, and rendered it unsafe, under failure conditions.

This knowledge of DD3 was thin to begin with, and is mostly died out now.

Brian Evans, are you any more motivated than I am?

Ryker, where are you? Within roadtrip distance?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Ryker]

The air hose guy said that the liner in my hose was burned out a couple inches in, and that is why it failed at the hot compressor, like it melted the inside liner. I am assuming he knows what he is doing since he mentioned that. He is a very reputable shop in the Bay Area but I will call him tomorrow to ask about it.

I pulled my muffler and put a breaker bar on the nut at the accessory pulley just now. I can not budge that engine. For comparison, I turned the nut on my spare engine and I had no problem turning that one.

The owner of Terminal Truck & Frame (Cowboy is his name) is very knowledgeable and he said that he knows this brake system but I do not know how to be sure of that.

I am in Sacramento. Road trip to where? I understand there is a mobile mechanic who goes around the country and works on Detroits. He did the Opti Force One engine recently.

[luvrbus]

You broke a liner or drop some valves you have bigger things to worry about now more than a air system or hoses

[Geoff]

Your air hose melted be because it was the wrong hose.  You are supposed to use a copper line for 3-4 ft or so before it connects to a steel braided DOT air line.  The air coming out of the compressor is HOT.

On your engine, white smoke is raw fuel from lack of compression.  Like Clifford said, something broke.  Try barring your engine the opposite direction you have been trying, and if it moves, it is  a dropped valve.

[Ryker]

I tried both directions and couldn't budge it. I pulled the easy valve cover (the one in front) and everything looks normal there.

I have maybe 10" of steel pipe before the braided line.

Yes, it was white smoke.

[Dave5Cs]

Pull the inspection covers and have a look in the cylinders to see if you can see the broken sleeve or maybe the top of a blown piston top or broken rings etc.

[buswarrior]

I am in Sacramento. Road trip to where?

The road trip would be mine, not yours...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[bevans6]

My vote is with everyone else - engine first, then air system issues.  You may be using that spare engine sooner than you had hoped...

As far as air issues are concerned, the first thing you need to understand is where the pressure gauge is reading from.  On my bus it reads the dry tank pressure, on other buses I know it can read the accessory system pressure.  This could be a pre/post FMVSS deal.  There is a pressure protection valve usually present between the dry tank and the rest of the air system, so if you are reading 30 psi on a gauge connected to the accessory system you could have a big leak there, pressure drops, but you still have 60 psi in the dry tank.  On my bus (1980 MCI, post FMVSS) the Push/pull valve for the emergency parking brake is fed from the emergency brake tank, which is separated from the rest of the air system with a check valve.  It's perfectly possible for the emergency brake tank to retain 120 psi pressure when the rest of the system is at zero psi, showing nothing on the gauge.  Yet the parking brake would still work if needed, and the PP valve would not pop automatically until pressure in the emergency tank dropped below 40 psi.  Knowing tidbits like the presence of that check valve and the E-brake tank being separate, knowing that the PP valve won't pop until 40 psi in the E-brake tank, and knowing where the gauge reads air pressure are the little details that a Busnut needs to know about THEIR particular bus and air system.

Regardless, engine first, maybe a new air compressor while it's out and easy to change, and then go through the 50 year old air brake system.  My theory on old air brakes and systems is that if I didn't change it, it's old enough to need changing anyway... 

Oh!  When my bus whistled loud and high enough to annoy dogs for miles around, it was the 80 PSI pressure limiter located on the forward wall of the rear axle bay.  That limiter, which you may or may not have, limits air pressure to the inversion have and hence to the parking brake chambers of the DD3, so that the maximum application the emergency/parking brake system can make is limited to 80 psi

[Ryker]

The road trip would be mine, not yours...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

Ha! Well, that makes more sense. My brain is fried trying to figure all of this out. Come to Cali, the weather could not be better than in the Spring.

[Ryker]

Dropped the oil pan today and it is full of metal shavings. Looked up into the engine and do not see anything obviously broken but...metal shavings.

Spare engine is starting to make me nervous. The exhaust was not covered so people are telling me I could have rust in the exhaust valves and sleeves.

What about purchasing a bus with engine history but otherwise a mess, and swapping engines? Or easier to rebuild what I got maybe, with further investigation?

[Dave5Cs]

Any curved that look like silver and copper? Might be main or rod bearings. Sound like you need to go further. Have you pulled even the inspection hole covers on each side or the close side to look in the cylinders? Any pieces that might look like a part of something like a piston or injector tip pieces, or rod pieces etc.

[richard5933]

If it were my engine, I'd wait until there was a diagnosis before condemning it.

[Ryker]

Any curved that look like silver and copper? Might be main or rod bearings. Sound like you need to go further. Have you pulled even the inspection hole covers on each side or the close side to look in the cylinders? Any pieces that might look like a part of something like a piston or injector tip pieces, or rod pieces etc.

Here is the largest piece. Very thin and sort of a silver/copper color.

I have not yet pulled the inspection ports. They all seem to be in the most inconvenient spots.