Author Topic: Relocating Wabesto  (Read 2042 times)

Offline Jim Blackwood

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #60 on: October 06, 2019, 09:55:18 AM »
Ball valves are a great option, inexpensive, and can have an extension that comes through the floor into a closet or other convenient location. Beats going outside, and maybe a tenth the cost of a solenoid valve. Worth considering.

Note, MCI has valves on both ends of the coach loop. Why? Has to be passive heat loss from the loop.

Take your existing diagram and pencil in your changes. Then trace out every possible way the coolant could go. Examine every possible valve combination. Look for any possible failure, particularly ones that could result in cross-contamination or leakage. Then diagram in hand, examine your coach to see how the lines can be routed and revise as necessary. Bear in mind not all proposed routings will be possible due to physical or fabrication limitations.

Your hot water heater has an electric element that puts out no more than 6kw and may be half that.

Jim
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Offline Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #61 on: October 06, 2019, 10:12:20 AM »
Just wait, Gary. Your turn will come...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

I will never have any problems with my system. I remove my Aqua-Hot once per year and completely dismantle it and reassemble it and put it back in the bus.  While it is apart, I clean and paint all of the parts so they are always in top running condition at all times.   ;D
1967 Eagle with Series 60 Power Plant
Gary@BusConversionMagazine.com

Offline buswarrior

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #62 on: October 06, 2019, 12:00:25 PM »
I will never have any problems with my system. I remove my Aqua-Hot once per year and completely dismantle it and reassemble it and put it back in the bus.  While it is apart, I clean and paint all of the parts so they are always in top running condition at all times.   ;D

Right, and that isn't a "cost"?

It all "costs" whether you use ca$h or $weat, it all requires resources that could be applied to other things.

The$e $y$tem$ co$t, no matter what you do...

Lovely as they are.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area

Offline sledhead

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #63 on: October 06, 2019, 12:42:06 PM »
if you do a boiler system make sure you separate the engine antifreeze system ( a loop through the water heater ) and the boiler rv propylene glycol . you never want them to meet and on the engine side you want to install a ball valve on the feed and one on the return to the engine . this way if you ever have a problem you can remove the engine from the system . it is better to install ball valves on each end of a loop and on each side of all pumps . this way if you need to repair or replace any thing you shut off the ball valves and remove the defective piece without dismantling the whole system .

there are lots of stuff to teach you on utube before you begin

dave   
dave , karen
1990 mci 102c  6v92 ta ht740  kit,living room slide .... sold
2000 featherlite vogue vantare 550 hp 3406e  cat
1875 lbs torque  home base huntsville ontario canada

Offline Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2019, 12:52:26 PM »
Right, and that isn't a "cost"?

It all "costs" whether you use ca$h or $weat, it all requires resources that could be applied to other things.

The$e $y$tem$ co$t, no matter what you do...

Lovely as they are.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

Buses cost money.  Anyone that thinks differently is delusional.  If you own a bus you need to have cash reserves to operate and maintain it.  The guy who used to own my Eagle budgeted $2500/month to operate my current bus.  I have met too many people that own buses that cannot afford to run them.  There are ways to save money but if you want the ultimate in comfort, you have to spend money on your bus.
1967 Eagle with Series 60 Power Plant
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Offline sledhead

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2019, 12:59:17 PM »
still way cheaper then air fare , hotel and rent a car and way way more comfortable

dave
dave , karen
1990 mci 102c  6v92 ta ht740  kit,living room slide .... sold
2000 featherlite vogue vantare 550 hp 3406e  cat
1875 lbs torque  home base huntsville ontario canada

Offline Van

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2019, 03:21:02 PM »
Buses cost money.  Anyone that thinks differently is delusional.  There are ways to save money but if you want the ultimate in comfort, you have to spend money on your bus.

 Plenty of $1000.00 buses out there, look at all the money you could spend on comforts and fuel lol ;D Oh I noticed how ya didn't wave as you went by. ;)
If your engine runs too hot it could be on the rag.

Offline freds

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2019, 02:56:04 PM »
Hi Everyone

EBay has some military surplus 10KW Espar Hydronic 10 heaters. The only drawback is that they are 24 volts, but you can add a converter. The seller was originally asking $1684.00 for them but I talked him down to $850.00 for my purchase.

He then changed the price and it's still listed as $850.00 after I placed my order.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/173978153882

Hi Everyone

Turns out there is two versions of the military surplus Espar D10 heaters floating around out there.

One that attaches directly to a generator and another for mounting in other vehicles. I obviously asked for the discount on the first type.

The second one comes with mounting plates, muffler and remote control box.

Anyway I have mine all unboxed which was a bit of an adventure in that each individual part was in a separate envelope include a single zip tie!!!





I found a lot of manuals for this heater at: https://www.butlertechnik.com/technical_library/hydronic-10-d70

I also ordered the computer diagnostic interface and software; plus intake and exhaust mufflers from ebay.

Online Geoff

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2019, 04:36:53 PM »
Are replacement parts available?

I got burned on a military engine heater the last time around that Fast Fred was promoting.  No replacement parts available.
Geoff
'82 RTS AZ

Offline freds

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #69 on: October 11, 2019, 01:12:01 PM »
Are replacement parts available?

I got burned on a military engine heater the last time around that Fast Fred was promoting.  No replacement parts available.

Yes I can understand that on a large military only development. This one is based on the Espar Hydronic D10 unit which is used in many different industries including marine.

They are not selling the D10 anymore but a newer M model that looks very similar.

The only difference is that this unit is 24V and they are also used in trucks so it wasn't a limited production run. If I find that things like the pump are only reasonably available in 12V then I will just add a voltage converter.

Offline Jcparmley

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2019, 02:58:52 PM »
Dave

I was wondering how your air flow is in your set up?  Where do you get the fresh air?  I am planing on taking out the OTR AC/Heat except for the drivers loop.  I tore out the floor and cleaned out all the ducts and fresh air return.  I plan on sheeting over the outlets with the floor.  I was planing on using 6 or 7 air to coolant exchangers for the cabin heat while driving.  I will have a flare plate exchanger connected to the engine coolan and the other to the Wabesto and pump.  That way the coolants stay separate.  My question is about the fresh air.  Some have suggested that there isn't good air exchange doing it the way I have planed and you suggested.  What are your thoughts?

if you do a boiler system make sure you separate the engine antifreeze system ( a loop through the water heater ) and the boiler rv propylene glycol . you never want them to meet and on the engine side you want to install a ball valve on the feed and one on the return to the engine . this way if you ever have a problem you can remove the engine from the system . it is better to install ball valves on each end of a loop and on each side of all pumps . this way if you need to repair or replace any thing you shut off the ball valves and remove the defective piece without dismantling the whole system .

there are lots of stuff to teach you on utube before you begin

dave
1996 MCI 102dl3
Series 60 12.7 w/ Allison B500 Retarder
470 HP/ 1550 TQ
A work in progress

Online Geoff

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2019, 04:22:08 PM »
if you do a boiler system make sure you separate the engine antifreeze system ( a loop through the water heater ) and the boiler rv propylene glycol . you never want them to meet and on the engine side you want to install a ball valve on the feed and one on the return to the engine . this way if you ever have a problem you can remove the engine from the system . it is better to install ball valves on each end of a loop and on each side of all pumps . this way if you need to repair or replace any thing you shut off the ball valves and remove the defective piece without dismantling the whole system .

there are lots of stuff to teach you on utube before you begin

dave

Never use engine glycol in your interior heating system?  Don't combine the engine and interior heating together?  That sounds like Aquahot propaganda.  The ball valves to separate the interior coolant from the engine coolant comes OEM to work on the engine. 

I could describe how to set up a Webasto system (not Aquahot) that is more efficient and is able to only heat the interior OR the engine for fuel usage, or both at the same time, but not at this time around.

Do a search on this website for directions.
Geoff
'82 RTS AZ

Offline Jcparmley

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2019, 07:56:13 PM »
Geoff

I'm open to all options.  I need to have my Webasto rebuilt anyhow so now is the time to think about a different way to plumb a system.  If you could help me design a system that does all those things then I am all ears.  From what I understood from reading on this forum was that if the two systems (engine coolant/interior coolant) were not separated what would happen if you had a leak in one system?   Then both would be down, correct?  I spoke to a member on this site who has a system set up as I described using a flat plate exchanger to keep the two systems separate.  While traveling through Alaska he had a failure with the engine coolant loop and because his system was separated by the flat plate exchanger he was able to run the interior system and keep his family warm until he was able to fix the engine issue.  That to me seams like a smart way to set up a system.  Am I wrong or missing something? 

Never use engine glycol in your interior heating system?  Don't combine the engine and interior heating together?  That sounds like Aquahot propaganda.  The ball valves to separate the interior coolant from the engine coolant comes OEM to work on the engine. 

I could describe how to set up a Webasto system (not Aquahot) that is more efficient and is able to only heat the interior OR the engine for fuel usage, or both at the same time, but not at this time around.

Do a search on this website for directions.
1996 MCI 102dl3
Series 60 12.7 w/ Allison B500 Retarder
470 HP/ 1550 TQ
A work in progress

Offline buswarrior

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2019, 08:38:46 PM »
Separate them or run them combined, you'll find as many in both camps.

It's your conversion, do some reading back in the forums and pick your poison?

How often does the cooling system on your car fail?

How often will it fail on your coach? How much maintenance, or not, are you doing to the clamps and hoses? What quality of goods are you employing?

Your fresh water tank holds how many gallons? Your cooling system? You already have replacement juices...

A busnut is free to amuse themselves however they like.

If that involves living dangerously, or spending money on redundancy and separation, well, that's why this is a hobby, not a profession with an accreditation body.

Not sure this helps?

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area

Offline richard5933

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Re: Relocating Wabesto
« Reply #74 on: October 31, 2019, 04:08:17 AM »
The main bus heating loop and the Webasto heating loop do not have to be run in series with each other. That would mean that all coolant from the bus's loop would flow through the Webasto, and vice-versa.

Our 4106 had two main loops: there was the Webasto loop running to the air/coolant exhangers and there was the bus's main heating/defrosting loop coming from the engine which fed the OTR heating core and defrosting core.

Then there was the small loop that joined the two systems together. It had ball valve so that this connecting loop could be shut off (they were normally open), and there was a small Bosch water/coolant pump that moved coolant through this loop. I believe that there was also a small booster pump which helped move the heated coolant through the bus's system so that the engine would receive heat for pre-heat.

On the control panel inside the bus, there was a toggle switch for this Bosch pump. When it was turned on, water flowed between the Webasto system and the bus's system, transferring heated coolant between them. When it was off, each loop could still operate independently, and only minimal transfer between the two systems would take place.

The whole setup was very similar to what was used in my old wood shop to connect the boiler to the radiator loop. I was skeptical at first that the short overlap would be enough to ever fully heat the building's radiator, but it worked well.
Richard
1974 GMC P8M4108a-125 (Custom Coach "Land Cruiser")
1964 GM PD4106-2412 (Former Bus)
Located in beautiful Wisconsin
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