Silverside or Silversides. Which is the correct terminology?

[DoubleEagle]

Here is the Eagle emblem on a 1952 GM 4103 American Bus Lines. It appears to match the one on the ACF Brill.

[pd4501-771]

https://www.bluehoundsandredhounds.info/barscen.html#silversides

[chessie4905]

Good article. Thanks

[DoubleEagle]

One problem with the article is that it does not mention the "deck and a half" models from C. D. Beck & Co. of Sydney, Ohio, which looked quite a bit like the Scenicruiser. Flxible in Loudonville, Ohio, had the Vistaliner. Who copied who? Since GM dominated the bus market at the time, they might have dominated the writing of the history as well.

[pd4501-771]

Folks seem to ask about competing Scenicruiser designs. VL-100, Beck, etc. These are not mentioned (in my opinion and writings) because they simply do not matter in regards to 4501 history. They were footnotes to the 4501 history. I guarantee both of these came after the 4501. Facts are facts. I personally like the VL-100s and think they were fine coaches. I wish they had made more than just 100. As for the Beck, it's ok, but whenever I see one, I always think about the Ford Tri-motor airplane. The siding has that look to me.

[DoubleEagle]

Folks seem to ask about competing Scenicruiser designs. VL-100, Beck, etc. These are not mentioned (in my opinion and writings) because they simply do not matter in regards to 4501 history. They were footnotes to the 4501 history. I guarantee both of these came after the 4501. Facts are facts. I personally like the VL-100s and think they were fine coaches. I wish they had made more than just 100. As for the Beck, it's ok, but whenever I see one, I always think about the Ford Tri-motor airplane. The siding has that look to me.

The Beck models that looked very much like the Scenicruiser came out in 1954, the same year as the 4501. Their 1040 model had a large Cummins NHRBS 600 supercharged diesel, which might have had fewer problems than two 4-71's. How did Beck copy GM so quickly if GM was first out? Did Beck have a spy at GM? Coincidence? Good knockoff, at least.

[luvrbus]

The chicken or egg, both are lacking curb appeal even being a icon of the era 

[chessie4905]

http://theoldmotor.com/?p=142146

Beck and ACF Brill  had deck and a half models in 1950. Probably from requests from Trailways for a comparable model of the GM concept.

[pd4501-771]

Clifford you kill me.

[pd4501-771]

Walter, I appreciate your "underdog theory", but I don't think it really works. http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/b/beck/beck.htm Read this article outlining Beck's history and honestly tell me they seemed like an outfit that could supply the world's biggest and best intercity bus lines (at the time) -Greyhound with the quality and quantity of coaches needed? The truth is the deck and half designs go back into the 1920s from a multiple makers. None were really new, but Greyhound, GM, and Loewy & assoc. were masters at marketing and building quantity and quality. Beck's total post war output was just over half of the total 4501s made. GM and Greyhound had a long and sometimes volatile marriage, but Greyhound had all their eggs firmly in the Scenicruiser basket as early as 1946. Even with the issues apparent with the new Scenicruiser, it soon became the face of bus travel for Greyhound. It was THE bus by most people's account (unless you are like Clifford. LOL)

[luvrbus]

LOL sorry Tom I just never liked the looks ,spoke with many Greyhound drivers and maintaince people over the years that had a dislike for those too. I do like the baggage doors though   

[DoubleEagle]

Tom, I realize you are as deep into Scenicruisers as I am into Eagles, but you must admit there were more than a few problems with them from day one. They had to take them to the Greyhound garage straight from the factory to fix all the sloppy work the GM plant did, right? The double 4-71 setup had a few problems, right? The frame cracked on many of them from the stresses that they could not handle, and they had to be patched, right? Clifford does not particularly like the styling, right? Converters have a lot to contend with dealing with the sunken aisle up top, right? Greyhound's relations with GM soured a bit because of the Scenicruiser's problems, and they started up with MCI (which was also a small outfit like Beck), right?

That being said, the Scenicruiser was magical to me when I rode it in the late fifties, early sixties. I would stand in line long before other people would line up so I could have my choice of seat. The seat of choice was the aisle seat on the first row passenger side of the upper deck. There I could see through the skylight window in front of me, but more importantly, I could see the driver shifting down below. I noticed that a lot of them would wear black leather driving gloves, which I did not usually see in a 4104. It was an art form to shift without grinding, and you could tell the pros from the newer hands. I loved being in that bus, but then in 1965, when I was making my first trip from the Army Induction Center in Albany, NY, the government put me in a Model 01 Eagle to start my trip to Fort Dix. Well, I noticed that the Eagle did not lean on the thruway ramps anywhere near as much as the Scenicruiser did (I thought they were close to tipping over, as a uniformed young person). The rest is history. Yes, some Eagles rust a bit, but GM's corrode.

Give Beck a break, they only made a few of their "deck and a half's", in their relatively small plant. When Mack bought them out in 1956, it was to get their fire engine business, and the buses got dumped in 1958. Their fortunes could have gone other ways, given some luck. Their "Scenicruisers" are even rarer than the GM's. I wonder if there are any surviving Becks that are roadworthy. Seems like I have seen some pictures of current Beck's on one of the forums. Anyway, if one shows for a ralley at Evansville or Blythesville, let it run with your Scenicruisers (there was a nice 1956 Beck at Hibbing). That will really confuse people. 

[pd4501-771]

Walter, Thanks for the cruiser memories. I always enjoy hearing that stuff. I think the Beck story is neat, but I can't concede that GM, Greyhound and Raymond Loewy borrowed their Scenicruiser styling ques from Beck.

I have become an Eagle fan, especially the model 01. I told myself 25 years ago when I bought our first Scenic that I would only focus on buying Greyhound memorabilia. When I bought our Tamiami Trailways PD4104 in 2008 that all went out the window. Now I buy just as much Trailways & Eagle stuff. There was a fully seated all original model 01 at Jefferson bus repair in OKC (maybe you saw it?). It sat there for years and was all-but abandoned. I kept my eye on it, thinking about the possibilities. Luckily the owners finally had it moved (NJ I think), as I do not need any more buses. But man that thing was really cool. A seated 01 must be pretty rare.

I have had several Eagles attend my Blytheville rally (2013 & 2019). You guys are always welcome. The more...the merrier! Take care

[DoubleEagle]

Walter, Thanks for the cruiser memories. I always enjoy hearing that stuff. I think the Beck story is neat, but I can't concede that GM, Greyhound and Raymond Loewy borrowed their Scenicruiser styling ques from Beck.

I have become an Eagle fan, especially the model 01. I told myself 25 years ago when I bought our first Scenic that I would only focus on buying Greyhound memorabilia. When I bought our Tamiami Trailways PD4104 in 2008 that all went out the window. Now I buy just as much Trailways & Eagle stuff. There was a fully seated all original model 01 at Jefferson bus repair in OKC (maybe you saw it?). It sat there for years and was all-but abandoned. I kept my eye on it, thinking about the possibilities. Luckily the owners finally had it moved (NJ I think), as I do not need any more buses. But man that thing was really cool. A seated 01 must be pretty rare.

I have had several Eagles attend my Blytheville rally (2013 & 2019). You guys are always welcome. The more...the merrier! Take care

Your welcome! By the way, I have found the prototype for the Beck "Cruiser", they must have seen the GX-2 built in 1949, by GM. So, there was no coincidence, the Lowey design sparked everybody into action. All hail the PD4501!