Author Topic: Drafting???  (Read 900 times)

Offline Lee Bradley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1042
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2020, 07:06:32 AM »
I see EVs becoming the majority of new vehicles sold much sooner than self-driving ones. Electric and ICE can co-exist easily, but as long as humans are behind the wheel of some vehicles it will be difficult to mix the technologies of self-driving and human-driven.

We humans have a tendency towards doing things irrationally, which makes it difficult for self-driving vehicles to predict our actions. Self-driving cars on a road by themselves could work in close quarters at high efficiency, but the safety margin they have to leave to allow us humans working space would take away from that. That said, I do see where HOV lanes will soon be replaced with self-driving-vehicle-only lanes which are isolated from the regular traffic. Then they can talk to each other and operate at full efficiency.

No. They will take another general traffic lane; HOV plus self-driving vehicles lanes.

Offline lvmci

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1747
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2020, 08:10:46 AM »
At Hoover Dam Freightliner, Detroit and Benz had a huge worldwide introduction of the first State licensed driverless 18 wheeler. Happened About 5 years ago, this big show talked about how the driver would have a dash board that had two removable Ipads, that communicated thru a satellite dish on the roof, making the driver the manager of the load, communicating arrival, pickup, weather issues, etc. Funny that the Dam people wouldnt let the truck drive itself for the movement across the Dam. For me it was also a personal event, as it was the first time my son and I worked together! He was the lighting director, lvmci...
MCI 102C3 8V92, Allison HT740
Formally MCI5A 8V71 Allison MT643

Offline richard5933

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2464
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2020, 08:25:37 AM »
No. They will take another general traffic lane; HOV plus self-driving vehicles lanes.
Not around here - we just don't have any extra lanes. Maybe in states/cities with super wide freeways, but that's not what you'll find on freeways going through many cities in the north/east.
Richard
1974 GMC P8M4108a-125 (Custom Coach "Land Cruiser")
1964 GM PD4106-2412 (Former Bus)
Located in beautiful Wisconsin
KD9GRB

Offline Jim Eh.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 881
  • Excess in moderation
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2020, 10:25:21 AM »
Oh it will be amazing for autonomous convoying - I wouldn't be surprised at all to see an 'autonomous only' lane on big highways in the future that's a bumper-to-bumper mix of vehicles going at speeds that we'd consider reckless today, but that demands much tighter precision and coordination than our lame human brains can manage.

Electric's definitely the way of the future - honestly the biggest problems are lack of infrastructure and that our battery tech is several steps behind our motor tech, but they're making advancements every year.  Even once road tax and such all get leveled out, eventually gas and diesel will be the 'hobbyist' options.

Funny thing is, they are already here, by your definition above. They are called trains. Although in North America, the overhead electrical lines have not yet been installed.
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Jim Eh.
1996 MC12
6V92TA / HT741D
Winnipeg, MB.

Offline uncle ned

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1293
    • Visit: Busconversionstuff.com
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2020, 10:50:16 AM »



I hear that the new Prevo's are that way.

The front guy just pulls the rest along.

The guys behind set their cruse a few miles faster and just set in the drivers seat.

uncle ned
4104's forever
6v92 v730
Huggy Bear

Offline Jim Blackwood

  • Call me Doc, or call me arsehole, just don't call me late to dinner.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
  • I'm 25% Farnsworth ;-) 1996 MCI 102DL3
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2020, 12:41:42 PM »
Drafting works but you not only need to worry about road debris coming your way but i drove truck for forty years and can't even count the amount of blowouts I've had on trailers and the tire is the least of your worrys on some trailers the explosion has blown the fenders right off the trailer as well as the tire gator definitely not worth your life. Its like following a bomb not knowing when the thing will detonate

I once was about 50 ft away from a blowout, driving a convertible sports car, luckily in front of it. It was like a bomb going off. Had I been beside it I would be dead. I've learned a healthy respect.

Now those car/truck trains probably are the wave of the future but there will be a cost, just like with the original steel rail. Check your history, they were very deadly. But so were stage coaches. And when cars came about, so were they. It's only been in the last few decades that we could call them relatively safe, hurrah for crash test dummies! We used to call them Darwin victims. The ultimate expression was to strap your butt to a massive explosive and light off for the moon. But we will always push the envelope. And like complete idiot morons we ask, "What could possibly go wrong?" Second only to, "Hey, hold my beer and watch THIS $#!%."

So, truck trains. What do you think is going to happen when the lead truck sheds a gator? Weird things, you can guarantee it. Stuff that will make human erratica look like playschool. That's just the beginning. How about a suicide bomber in a Corolla? Yeah, I can't see that ending well. And that's if it's just trucks. You want to intersperse cars in there as well? Not me buddy. The one irrevocable rule of nature is that you don't argue with someone bigger than you are and that applies equally well to our artificial life forms. Does a sane person step out  in front of a freight train and expect it to stop for them? No he does not. OK that's an extreme example sure, but it still applies. If you want to take those chances you had sure better know exactly what you are doing. And when it comes to autonomous vehicles there's still an awful lot that we just don't know.

Not that any of that will stop us, but we should proceed cautiously lest we return to the bad old days of railroad expansion when your chances of getting there safe were about the same as with bandits, indians and stage coaches.

Jim
Information, without Knowledge, is useless.

Offline richard5933

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2464
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2020, 02:46:58 PM »
I've driven a few cars with some of the new self-driving features. Not full-blown self driving, but things like lane correct and reactive cruise.
The one thing that I do really like is the reactive cruise. That thing does a better job of keeping distance to the car in front of me than I ever could. Once the cars start talking to each other, I can see where in designated lanes the cars follow at a pre-set distance and are able to maintain things much better than we all do in heavy traffic when cars are going 60+ only a few feet from each other. That computer system has better reflexes than the average guy who's shaving or eating on the way to work in the morning rush.
Richard
1974 GMC P8M4108a-125 (Custom Coach "Land Cruiser")
1964 GM PD4106-2412 (Former Bus)
Located in beautiful Wisconsin
KD9GRB

Offline AndyinCT

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2020, 05:18:29 PM »
Hi Everyone

I brought a Tesla for my 60th birthday (it's paid for now) and took it back to Greybull WY to show it to my cousin. At the time the I-90 super charger network east bound quit at Spokane WA until you were a lot further east.

To make it I stopped at a lot of RV areas to snag a 50amp outlet for an hour or more to add 50 miles of range.

I made it into Missoula MT with three miles remaining of range only by drafting behind a semi-truck for a fair number of miles. Was definitely thinking that a tow truck would be involved that day!!!

I wound up at a motel where they let me unplug a dryer which was on two phases on three phase power so only got 192 volts instead of 240, so it took about 12 hours to charge the car where normally it would take a little over eight hours on a fully empty battery.

Question, can you significantly improve your mileage by drafting a semi?
Fellow tesla owner here!  S 85D
I dont know about drafting as I too have been near a semi when a tire has exploded.  Scared the $&!@ outta me!  But, I can tell you using the heat kills the battery quickly!  In fact, cold weather really does a number on range. 
I still love it though.  IMO Tesla is a software company that just happens to make cars.  Thats why they're so good.  LOVE it.  A lot.  Enjoy freds!
1989 MCI 96A3
6V92, 5speed manual

Offline Boomer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 982
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2020, 09:23:35 PM »
With self driving vehicles who the hell is going to put chains on?  What happens on snow and ice? These auto pilot tesla's are crashing almost as much as stupid drivers.
'81 Eagle 15/45, NO MORE
'47 GM PD3751-438, NO MORE
'65 Crown Atomic, NO MORE
'48 Kenworth W-1 highway coach, NO MORE
'93 Vogue IV, NO MORE
Vancouver, WA USA

Offline chessie4905

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4582
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2020, 04:16:36 AM »
Who the hell is going to need chains??? The global warming is going to send snow and ice to the bin of past memories.
GMC h8h 649#028 (4905)
Pennsylvania-central

Offline dtcerrato

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 779
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2020, 05:55:30 AM »
Who the hell is going to need
chains??? The global warming is going to send snow and ice to the bin of past memories.
It already has here in Florida - unlike past 40 years with frost, snow, & icicles - now insect populations stay around all winter today Is 85F - 1-1/2 hrs south is 88F in Orlando. :-/ February...!
Dan & Sandy
PD4104-129 since 1979

Offline kyle4501

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3839
  • NEWELL in South Carolina
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2020, 05:00:57 PM »
Self driving sounds good - But what happens when the controls get confused due to a failed component or two?

I was driving a company car for work - when the traction control system drove the car right off the road into the woods when it got confused in a rainstorm. The computer told the story of what it did to steer off the road - just not why it decided to do that. 

Same thing happened to two other guys with that same car. Was so glad when they got rid of it.
Life is all about finding people who are your kind of crazy

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please (Mark Twain)

Education costs money.  But then so does ignorance. (Sir Claus Moser)

Offline uncle ned

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1293
    • Visit: Busconversionstuff.com
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2020, 08:06:09 AM »


Good morning Kyle

uncle ned
4104's forever
6v92 v730
Huggy Bear

Offline freds

  • Platinum Donor
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 123
  • 1980 Prevost Original Motorhome
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2020, 10:21:42 AM »
With self driving vehicles who the hell is going to put chains on?  What happens on snow and ice? These auto pilot tesla's are crashing almost as much as stupid drivers.

The press and the short sellers make sure you hear about every auto pilot accident thus altering the perception.

Recent numbers release:

"During Q3, we registered one accident for every 4.34 million miles driven in which drivers had Autopilot engaged. This compares to the national average of one accident for every 0.5 million miles based on NHTSA’s most recent US data."

Now if we converted express lanes to automated driving only they would truly be express lanes!!!



Offline buswarrior

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5605
  • '75 MC8 8V71 HT740
Re: Drafting???
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2020, 07:23:44 PM »
What fred said.

The automation isn't going to stop the killing, its just going to do a lot less killing than people do.

Those of us with the hesitant nature, due to experience of the "blue screen of death" are just going to have to get over ourselves?

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area