Surplus RV places in Elkhart

[Jim Blackwood]

I don't want the water heater to be too big, next thing you know I'll be running a water line. Seems most of the washers these days will do a hot or warm wash/cold rinse and I can only carry so much water. I do remember the days when a 6 gallon water heater was something of a luxury. Much preferable to a Solar Shower if any of you remember those. A bag you laid in the sun with a little nozzle attached to a plastic hose, hoist it up in a tree on a rope? Wouldn't want to go back to that but it's nice to know it's always there if it ever comes to that.

I installed the new 120v element in the fridge today and fired it up. Happily the element gets hot so the board is working. On gas it got down to 27/-10 before I quit testing, I'll let this one go as far as it can. But Good Fridge. For under $300 total, great fridge. Just need to get the upper and lower trim.

About those range burners: Yes, it does very much matter if the flames go to the center of the burner. I do have a favorite iron skillet I cook with but you might be surprised at how thin the bottom actually is. And stainless pans, even copper bottom ones will still perform poorly when you have the flames climbing the sides of the pan. Makes me wonder who here really learned to cook and who depends on wifey.

The whole point of a gas burner is that you have instant and very precise control of the heat. If you are going to cook in a cast aluminum pot an inch thick then anything will do and you might as well go with all electric. But if you prefer gas it should be assumed that you do for a reason and the reason is that you want to put exactly the right amount of heat exactly where you want it exactly when you want it. If that isn't the case why would you even bother?

Stove manufacturers have been taken over by bean counters and bean counters do not understand fine cooking. Burners should be designed with the advice of experienced Chefs, not some little college grad who thinks he can shave a nickel off the manufacturing cost. Where you want the heat is where the food is. Exactly under it in a nicely dispersed and even pattern. Not some godawful thing that is cold in the middle and hot around the edges. They used to know how to do this. Back in the days when burners were made from cast iron, the flame pattern was carefully considered. Each individual flame was precisely located and sized, the pattern was even, and there were no dead spots. It was understood that these were the standards that burners were designed by, and people were paid good money to come up with superior patterns. Now all of that has been lost. Nobody even cares anymore, and our dining experience suffers as a direct result.

Jim

[chessie4905]

cooking has gone  downhill too. majority don't do a lot like the use to.

[richard5933]

...Stove manufacturers have been taken over by bean counters and bean counters do not understand fine cooking. ...

Jim

A salesman at an appliance store once told me that the secret to a good chef's stove is not the one which can make the biggest flame for fast boiling, it's the one which can hold steady the smallest flame for simmering.

I think this is what you're looking for. Unfortunately, you might need to look beyond RV cookstoves for this as they're not really designed for much more than boiling water or heating beans. There are some nice 2-burner residential gas cook tops which work on LP - that's where I'd be looking if a quality stove is in your sights.

I looked at these 2-burner hobs when we were setting up our coach and found that some don't need electric to run at all. You can light with a match, or some had an ignitor that worked from two D-cell batteries.

[Jim Blackwood]

Richard, had you intended to include a link with that post?

To be honest at this point I'd be happy to find a single well made burner and build my own range  around a pair of them.

What you say about the low setting is pretty accurate in a way. That usually means a large burner and a small one to cover the full range of heat that you need. It would take an exquisitely well designed single burner to throttle back to the least amount of heat and still be able to output the max, and yet give even heat on the bottom of the pan over the entire range. Beyond a certain limited range from min to max I doubt it could even be done without staging the jets in some way. Like I said before, the people who used to design burners were at one time very, very good. True Artists in some cases in fact, and we are all poorer for their loss. Perhaps there does remain a small niche market of cooks or chefs who will accept nothing but the best. Maybe there remains a single old school manufacturer of such ranges, probably at exorbitant expense. In a practical sense though it probably means I'd have to dig up a 60 year old gas stove and cannibalize the parts.

Jim

[chessie4905]

consider inductive cooktop or single "burner"

[richard5933]

Richard, had you intended to include a link with that post?

To be honest at this point I'd be happy to find a single well made burner and build my own range  around a pair of them....
Jim

No link was meant to be there. Just search for 2-burner cooktop and you will find lots. The trouble is separating the junk ones from the decent ones.

If you want to do your own thing, hit up a few antique stores and see what they have. I've seen lots of apartment sized gas burners in the vintage/antique stores over the years.

Here's a great example of a burner designed for big & small pots - I've got one of these out in my barn I used to use for canning.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324767225092?hash=item4b9da29504:g:2UoAAOSw0ORhHqiI

The problem with using one of the vintage style cooktops as a starting point though is that they have none of the safety features such as auto shutoff of gas when the flame goes out. Also no ignitor, but that's easy to overcome.

[Dave5Cs]

We have and really use all the time an Atwood 3 burner with oven. We only use cast Iron pans etc. and  in the oven we put in a square pizza stone and now biscuits and such don't burn on the bottom. Then we use outside the two burner grille as well as a Pit Boss two burner gas Griddle. Made a wind surround for it and we can use it in any weather. we also have and again use a Hobe electric both outside and inside.
We make beans in big pot every week with ton of veggies in it as well as ham. Shrimp, tuna steaks, sausages, and again lots of Caramelized veggies on the flat top griddle, Steaks on the grill as well as hot dogs steaks etc. Wife make homemade soups in winter and freezes them. So it is possible to do with good equipment but not restaurant quality all the time..

[dtcerrato]

We have and really use all the time an Atwood 3 burner with oven. We only use cast Iron pans etc. and  in the oven we put in a square pizza stone and now biscuits and such don't burn on the bottom. Then we use outside the two burner grille as well as a Pit Boss two burner gas Griddle. Made a wind surround for it and we can use it in any weather. we also have and again use a Hobe electric both outside and inside.
We make beans in big pot every week with ton of veggies in it as well as ham. Shrimp, tuna steaks, sausages, and again lots of Caramelized veggies on the flat top griddle, Steaks on the grill as well as hot dogs steaks etc. Wife make homemade soups in winter and freezes them. So it is possible to do with good equipment but not restaurant quality all the time..

A guy can get hungry reading these posts! Our three burner Atwood with oven replaced what we never thought we would - it was a four burner Frigidking with stove. The Atwood is convenient with the manual spark igniter - turn the knob type but the real surprise - as we always thought the Vintage 73 Frigidking was the greatest was the burner flame of the Atwood, ie: stove & oven burners. Like Richard mentioned - the flame is much more uniform & consistent - hard to explain but the Atwood flame isn't As big & bright as the Frigidking but better cooking across the spectrum. On high & on simmer. We always thought we were downgrading going from four burner to three - never used all four at once and realized how much better large pots sat on the 3 burner stove. We are very happy of the change. We also carry the marine LP grill that we use on the boat bow rail bracket. We actually use the grill on the dinosaur Coleman folding aluminum stand under the awning in inclement weather. Notice how I didn't mention food! Already got something in the pot from reading the previous post! 

[Jim Blackwood]

Richard, that cast iron burner is more along the lines of what I've been talking about. Notice the air hole in the center, a feature of nearly all good burner designs. Personally I don't care much about the safety features, but I suppose if you had it on low, went to sleep with the windows and doors closed and a gust blew out the flame and then you never smelled the Mercaptan in the propane you might care, if your gas detector didn't scream loud enough to wake you up. Guess we need a law.

Anyhoo, Don, what was the model of that Atwood? We had a 3 burner in the Coachman and it did pretty well although I'd have liked to seen a bit more on high heat. Of course that rig was made in about '75 and while the burner design wasn't the best it was way better than they are making now.

I like the looks of the burners on this unit:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/383533562636?hash=item594c61bb0c:g:NAcAAOSwcrJdqRGW

8 stubby little arms for the gas jets and a central vent hole. It needs refinishing but I have some excellent sprayable ceramic coating I can use on it so I bought it. It'll need a stainless pan to sit in, I can make that and some sort of a cover. Add a piezo igniter and I think we're good.

For an oven, I think modern is good. One of my brothers has a nice combo oven/convection/microwave all in stainless that I want to take another look at.

Jim

[dtcerrato]

Our Atwood is coincidently got the word Wedgewood in it which ironically was the model name of the four burner Fridgiking Stove/oven we replaced. I think Atwood may have taken over the Fridgiking line. The model is: Atwood 52222-A 21 Inch 3 Burner Wedgewood Vision Range Oven. I forgot to mention that of the three burners the two side by side towards the rear of the stovetop are the same size burners and the one burner centered toward the front of the stove top is a larger burner with more BTU for larger pots which is another nice feature. We purchased the unit new in June of 2012 from American RV Co. for $370. I see it runs in the mid $500s now. It has been serving us well - wifey likes it & that's what matters...

[Jim Blackwood]

This'll keep me busy for awhile I think. I've whittled down the list a bit. What I have now is:

Water heater (using the Eiberspacher in the system is a thought, more designing needed)
Kitchen and bathroom sinks
Toilet
Shower pan and enclosure
Propane tank
Sealed AC compressor units

Let's move on to the AC compressor units since that's going to be the most controversial at this point. What I'm looking for are the sealed units like are used inside residential air conditioners. They have to run r134, should be powered by 120v, be as efficient as possible for the cost, and able to use soft start. Then there is the size or capacity. Here is where it gets interesting. What would be ideal is an 18000btu 120v compressor that can be run off a single 30A shore line and leave enough excess ampacity to run the fans and the usual other RV needs. Three of those would do the trick I think.

Any ideas?

I'm sort of leaning towards mini-split condenser units as possibly the best overall compromise.

Jim

[richard5933]

This'll keep me busy for awhile I think. I've whittled down the list a bit. What I have now is:

Water heater (using the Eiberspacher in the system is a thought, more designing needed)
Kitchen and bathroom sinks
Toilet
Shower pan and enclosure
Propane tank
Sealed AC compressor units

Let's move on to the AC compressor units since that's going to be the most controversial at this point. What I'm looking for are the sealed units like are used inside residential air conditioners. They have to run r134, should be powered by 120v, be as efficient as possible for the cost, and able to use soft start. Then there is the size or capacity. Here is where it gets interesting. What would be ideal is an 18000btu 120v compressor that can be run off a single 30A shore line and leave enough excess ampacity to run the fans and the usual other RV needs. Three of those would do the trick I think.

Any ideas?

I'm sort of leaning towards mini-split condenser units as possibly the best overall compromise.

Jim

You can do like Custom Coach did and build your a/c units from off-the-shelf commercial refrigeration parts. The condensing units on my bus are what you're typically see sitting in the basement of an old restaurant, and the evaporator unit is what you'd see hanging in the cooler. They used really basic components for controls, including a heavy-duty contactor run by a line-voltage thermostat. With the proper thermostat, you can use those components to do room air conditioning instead of keeping the beer cold.

I've got two of these units, and each will use about 13 amps running. The compressors are Copeland 120v units and I can easily run one off 30-amp service with lots left over.

Essentially, Custom Coach built some homebuilt mini-split units, but they are mini-split units that have performed well for 46 years with only minimal effort in maintenance.

[Jim Blackwood]

Kinda what I have in mind really. The bus already contains an excellent condenser that'll handle over 12 tons of cooling. It also has three 1-1/2 ton evaporator units which with only a little  re-plumbing can be made use of. That leaves only the compressor(s). Leaving aside for the moment the discussion of why AC compressors can be run in parallel, it's pretty clear to me that the system I have in mind will work and with the right compressors I can build a staged system that will allow me to use the system normally OTR and then run one to three of the smaller on board units when parked. Those would be the dash air and the two bin air units. So optimally I need three 18K compressors. And a sealed unit like those used in roof air or mini-split look like reasonable choices.

Jim

[Jim Blackwood]

Just got the 3 burner range. Bit rusty but the sand blaster will take care of that. Below is a photo, banana for scale

I cleaned up a burner and a grate in the bead blaster. I think it'll look pretty good with the ceramic coating. Thinking about taking one burner and plugging half the orifices for a warmer but I'll see how well it throttles down first. I have one broken grate, which I can either repair or replace with a 1/4" brass plate, but that sort of negates the advantage of the gas burner in the first place.

Jim

[richard5933]

Looks like a great start. Did you see if the orrifice is sized for natural gas or LP? When I got the one in the barn it was set for LP but I was planning to run NG so it had to be drilled out.