Author Topic: Wood Finish Question  (Read 766 times)

Offline zoneVphotography

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Wood Finish Question
« on: January 09, 2022, 05:16:15 PM »
Hello. A bus I am looking at seems to have wrinkles in the wood finish/sealant. I assume the only way to fix this would be a total resand and refinishing of the wood? I know some Beavers has sealant problems that caused problems, however not wrinkles but a clouding issue. This is a link to the wrinkle issue in a Prevost: https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0s5ON9t3G7GRmJ;C75D2FD8-9FEF-44FA-BAE2-DF63F78C0663

Offline robertglines1

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2022, 08:07:51 PM »
that is a converter problem.. Prevost just supplied shell. That is a 26yr old conversion..  if that is all that's wrong you are a lucky buyer..
Bob@Judy  98 XLE prevost with 3 slides --Home done---last one! SW INdiana

Offline zoneVphotography

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2022, 08:14:02 PM »
I know Prevost does not do the buildout. That wasn't my question. I am trying to find the nature of the issue and not someone to hold accountable.  I mentioned it was a Prevost so no one thought the post was about Beaver rvs.

Offline buswarrior

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2022, 08:30:29 PM »
Old age. Living in a bus conversion, wild swings in temperature and humidity.

Nothing nefarious, and really, a tribute to the original construction.

It depends on what the original finish techniques were, whether some tricks will smooth it out, or total strip and re-finish.

Furniture refinishers, today's high end bus converters, similar instructor at the local trade school?

Or, enjoy it as it is?

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
new project: 1995 MCI 102D3, Cat 3176b, Eaton Autoshift

Offline zoneVphotography

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2022, 08:37:10 PM »
Thank you, buswarrior. I think I can live with it. I'll find out more if something can be done without a complete refinish. The areas in the kitchen seem the worst, like over the sink, which would make sense given higher humidity in those places. Thank you.

Offline chessie4905

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2022, 04:05:42 AM »
One major problem trying to refinish a smaller area or part is that the varnish or finish darkens with age and makes matching really difficult.
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Offline sledhead

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2022, 05:18:28 AM »
nice coach
the natural maple cabinets are timeless

dave
dave , karen
1990 mci 102c  6v92 ta ht740  kit,living room slide .... sold
2000 featherlite vogue vantare 550 hp 3406e  cat
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Offline richard5933

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2022, 06:16:31 AM »
It looks to me like the finish they used was too hard and couldn't cope with the shrinkage and expansion resulting from temperature extremes found in a coach.

There are some solvent-based finish restorers out there. They work by slightly dissolving the finish, which allows it to lay flat and to fill some cracks. I've used it in the past to repair some antique furniture.

The struggle will be determining what type of finish was used and selecting the proper solvent to work with it. You can try a test on some hidden areas, like inside a drawer or door, to see how this technique works.

There is also a 'magic formula' I used to use on old sewing machines made of a few different solvents like denatured alcohol, lacquer thinner mixed with linseed oil and what not. It did a good job of making a weathered finish look better. The magic formula was different every time, depending on what the original finish was made of.

Richard
1974 GMC P8M4108a-125 Custom Coach "Land Cruiser" (Sold)
1964 GM PD4106-2412 (Former Bus)
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Located in beautiful Wisconsin

Offline Runcutter

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2022, 08:20:57 AM »
I agree with BW, it all depends on what the finish is - on the actual coach. 

First question -- are the photos of the coach you're investigating, or an example from another coach?  Those are European hinges, so easy to take a door off and bring it to a woodworker (the European hinges I use snap off, look for a lever in the back of the cabinet-side).  If you let us know where you are, probably someone can suggest someone in your area.  Second choice would be to bring the photo in.

Good news, it looks to me like the Birds Eye maple veneer is not delaminating, the "bones" appear in good condition.  When I owned the 4107, I laminated all the drawer faces and cabinet doors -- but the Texas heat caused delamination within a few years.

Potentially bad news -- from the photos, my guess would be that the converter used polyurethane.  Essentially, polyurethane is plastic -- thus doesn't move with the wood.  A woodworking friend uses the example of the first day of school with a plastic-covered notebook, fresh and clear; by the last day it is crazed and cracked.  So, if it's polyurethane, sanding down to bare wood and starting over (with a more appropriate product) would probably be required.       

But, that's my guess from the photos, and I'm not sure that is the coach you're investigating.  Another argument that they used polyurethane is that the inside of the doors is finished.  Best practice in using the finishes discussed below is to not finish the inside of the cabinet, the lack of air movement may mean that the finish never fully cures, always remains sticky. 

Oil finishes (e.g., Boiled Linseed Oil or Watco Danish Oil), and varnish-oil combos (my go-to finish is Arm-R-Seal, or Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish for damper places), are repairable.  Light sanding with 220 or 230 grit and one or two additional coats -- and the finish will "burn" together.  Surface finishes, like spray lacquer are also repairable.  Arm-R-Seal and lacquers are available in different sheens, from glossy to flat; with straight oil and Watco you get about a satin sheen, no options. 

Arthur 
Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
Former owner of a 1968 PD-4107

Working in the bus industry provides us a great opportunity - to be of service to others

Offline Dave5Cs

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2022, 09:12:20 AM »
Agree with the poster. That is damaged by moisture and contraction and expansion. It also is not solid wood it is veneer and is a PITA to fix if even possible and then will do it again after done unless the original problem heat and moisture is addressed.
"Perfect Frequency"1979 MCI MC5Cs 6V-71,644MT Allison.
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Offline dtcerrato

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2022, 05:01:24 PM »
Temperature swings and excessive moisture will kill the insides of the finest coaches. Before our air conditioned bus barn went up in 2012 - since 1979 when the bus was on the home front deep in Florida forest there was ALWAYS a dehumidifier set up in the cabin that drained out through the floor. Didn't worry about our mild winters but in the steamy summer months besides the dehumidifier the air conditioner ran on a timer from mid morning till dusk. It's called TLC.
Dan & Sandy
North Central Florida
PD4104-129 since 1979
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             2008 GMC Envoy SLT 4x4 4.2L IL Vortec

Offline zoneVphotography

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2022, 05:17:43 PM »
Thank you all for the detailed answers.
Arthur, you asked "First question -- are the photos of the coach you're investigating, or an example from another coach?" The video link in my initial post is the actual coach I am looking to buy. Thank you.

Offline Runcutter

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2022, 06:56:50 AM »
If there's a woodworking store (Woodcraft, Rockler), or a woodworker's club in your area, you might bring the photos in.  If the store teaches classes, and includes a wood finishing class, the teacher of that class would be the best person to speak with.

That presumes you live within striking distance of a major city.

Arthur
Arthur Gaudet    Carrollton (Dallas area) Texas 
Former owner of a 1968 PD-4107

Working in the bus industry provides us a great opportunity - to be of service to others

Offline luvrbus

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2022, 07:15:18 AM »
I saw at the Beaver factory they were using  steam to lay the veneer back down on a Prevost conversion ,I think it was about 1990.I saw Vogue in OK using steam to repair laminate to that was coming off
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Offline chessie4905

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Re: Wood Finish Question
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2022, 10:04:03 AM »
I've  used,an electric iron with success. Some of the edging that is sold is made with hot melt glue.
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