Author Topic: 4104 vibration at speed  (Read 5507 times)

Offline chessie4905

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2022, 04:19:57 AM »
https://www.almabolt.com/pages/catalog/bolts/tighteningtorque.htm

We used self locking nuts on the bolts on ours. Tens of thousands of miles and never had them loosen. Replaced those nuts any time they are removed. No nuts- red loctite.3/8-24 grade 8 used lock wire first couple of times, but what a pita.
GMC h8h 649#028 (4905)
Pennsylvania-central

Offline Jim Blackwood

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2022, 07:51:33 AM »
Wonder why your mechanic didn't see that when installing the driveshaft?

Jim
I saw it on the Internet. It MUST be true...

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2022, 08:38:59 AM »
We've always used the same hardware except for adding new lock washers - never any issues. The companion flange at the tranny end is a pita due to space constraints but gets real simple like the differential end when drum is removed. I hope you don't need to do what I'm about to mention but NOW would be the time! Check the output shaft seal of the tranny while the parking brake/propeller shaft is removed as that is what has been taking all of the beating from an unbalanced parking brake drum. That big nut is 1400 ft. Lbs. BTDT after a parking brake burn at highway speed which fried that seal I mentioned above.
Dan & Sandy
North Central Florida
PD4104-129 since 1979
Toads: 2009 Jeep GC Limited 4X4 5.7L Hemi
             2008 GMC Envoy SLT 4x4 4.2L IL Vortec

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2022, 08:41:51 AM »
Wonder why your mechanic didn't see that when installing the driveshaft?

Jim
Tunnel vision on the drive shaft! Us bus nuts have great peripheral vision when working on our beasts of beauty...
Dan & Sandy
North Central Florida
PD4104-129 since 1979
Toads: 2009 Jeep GC Limited 4X4 5.7L Hemi
             2008 GMC Envoy SLT 4x4 4.2L IL Vortec

Offline Nova Eona

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2022, 01:45:05 PM »
Tunnel vision on the drive shaft! Us bus nuts have great peripheral vision when working on our beasts of beauty...

My thoughts as well - I've been back there plenty and never noticed it before, could have saved myself a lot of time if I'd caught it last year!

So, update - went back today and got the driveshaft fully unmounted from both ends along with the bolts on the circumference of the drum, however said drum is still on there rock solid.  Does that big Jesus nut have to come off to remove it?  I left it soaking in penetrating oil in the hopes that it's currently just held on with 60 years of rust adhesion, I don't like four figure torque values.

Offline chessie4905

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2022, 11:36:46 AM »
Rusted to mounting flange just like brake drums on hubs. Spray with penetrant for 3 or 4 days. Then rap at 180 degrees locations. Use a short handle sledge or bigger if room. Don't  waste time with small hammer.
GMC h8h 649#028 (4905)
Pennsylvania-central

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2022, 05:32:45 PM »
Air impact hammer is your friend.
Dan & Sandy
North Central Florida
PD4104-129 since 1979
Toads: 2009 Jeep GC Limited 4X4 5.7L Hemi
             2008 GMC Envoy SLT 4x4 4.2L IL Vortec

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2022, 07:36:29 AM »
Forgot to answer your question on the big jesus nut - that holds only the transmission output shaft flange & preloads the output shaft bearing & has nothing to do with the parking brake drum. Once your drum is removed look for wetness & in some cases flooding behind that flange that the jesus nut is on. That would be an indication of the tranny output shaft seal leaking as I mentioned in an earlier post and would behoove you for replacement now otherwise you're going back together. You may notice if it's not completely buried in grease build up that there is a slobber tube 3/16" - 1/4" copper tube that directs any fluid leakage from the said seal away from the parking brake drum which in your removal of the drum renders it obsolete for that kind of protection. It's clocked at the bottom of the seal area behind the flange. Fwiw.
Dan & Sandy
North Central Florida
PD4104-129 since 1979
Toads: 2009 Jeep GC Limited 4X4 5.7L Hemi
             2008 GMC Envoy SLT 4x4 4.2L IL Vortec

Offline Nova Eona

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2022, 01:53:17 PM »
Success!  After much hammering, penetrating oil-ing, heating, and a bit of chilling, the dang thing finally came free, what a lovely little clunk sound.  Wiggled the driveshaft around until I could get the drum loose and bolted it all back up, now just gotta go back and torque it properly to call it done.

I did not notice any significant signs of leaking from the transmission seal, which reinforces the fact I haven't had to top it up ever since changing it over to synthetic oil two years ago.

While it's fresh in my mind, here's a step-by-step for anyone else tackling this in the future.

1) Saturate the drum/flange connection with penetrating oil.  Use an obscene amount.  This can be done later but the sooner you start the better
2) Verify or make some kind of marking on the pumpkin end of the driveshaft to make sure the flange meets up to the exact same point.  Mine already had a white line aligned with one of the bolt holes on both flanges
3) Remove fifteen bolts from the transmission end of the driveshaft and eight from the pumpkin end.  You do not need to disassemble u-joints, but will need to get creative with extensions, u-joints, and wobble-sockets.  A beefy impact wrench is your friend here, my Ryobi battery impact overheated itself but my Earthquake (HF) 3/4" breezed through it.  Leave at least one bolt in the inner ring of the transmission end
4) Run a wire or rope through one of the empty bolt holes on the transmission end.  You can't verify flange markings with the drum in the way, so this will ensure your transmission mating remains matched.  Tie this off so it won't come undone, but leave enough slack for the driveshaft to move around a lot
5) Remove that last bolt on the transmission end
6) Knock the driveshaft free from the flanges and compress it if possible, then squirm under (blocking obviously) and wiggle the flange on the pumpkin end around until it's under the pumpkin.  Doesn't hurt to tie it in place to keep it from sliding down to the ground
7)Apply a mixture of hammering, heat, cold, and penetrating oil to the brake drum until it comes loose.  This may take a week of intermittent care
8 ) Wiggle the freed drum loose and down to get it out.  Hopefully your bulkhead is already opened up to make it easier like mine was
9) You've probably got a rope or wire running through both flanges and the drum now, run a second one around the drum to make sure your mating remains matched, then remove the first so the drum can be thrown across the yard victoriously
10) Wiggle the driveshaft back into place, making sure the flanges meet the same boltholes they had originally.
11) Bolt it up using new hardware where available/applicable, fresh spring washers at a minimum.  I'm using antiseize compound on mine.
12) (This part I have not done yet) Torque it down to spec, probably using a crowfoot wrench and applicable math as needed.  The bolts are 7/16-20 Grade 8, torque to your preferred spec, I'm seeing 70ish for dry or 50ish for lubricated.  Wire it up if you kept the castle nuts and are so inclined.


Offline chessie4905

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2022, 02:00:03 PM »
Good news!
GMC h8h 649#028 (4905)
Pennsylvania-central

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2022, 06:20:11 PM »
Great news.  :^
Dan & Sandy
North Central Florida
PD4104-129 since 1979
Toads: 2009 Jeep GC Limited 4X4 5.7L Hemi
             2008 GMC Envoy SLT 4x4 4.2L IL Vortec

Offline Nova Eona

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2022, 04:44:31 PM »
Got everything torqued down and took it for a test drive today, all went well - still the occasional vibration or rattle, but much better than before!  Now I can finally start spending more time driving this thing than fixing it hopefully!

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2022, 05:56:02 PM »
Great news again!  :^
Dan & Sandy
North Central Florida
PD4104-129 since 1979
Toads: 2009 Jeep GC Limited 4X4 5.7L Hemi
             2008 GMC Envoy SLT 4x4 4.2L IL Vortec

Offline fortyniner

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2022, 06:57:04 PM »
We've always used the same hardware except for adding new lock washers - never any issues. The companion flange at the tranny end is a pita due to space constraints but gets real simple like the differential end when drum is removed. I hope you don't need to do what I'm about to mention but NOW would be the time! Check the output shaft seal of the tranny while the parking brake/propeller shaft is removed as that is what has been taking all of the beating from an unbalanced parking brake drum. That big nut is 1400 ft. Lbs. BTDT after a parking brake burn at highway speed which fried that seal I mentioned above.

How to you tighten to 1400lbs??  I struggle with 450lbs wheel nuts.
I see you have a hemi. Im doing lifter/cam job on sons at the moment.
Tom Phillips
PD4106-453
PD4106-2864
87 Alfa Milano
93 Range Rover
87 190e-16 Mercedes
92 Jeep Comanche

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Re: 4104 vibration at speed
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2022, 09:41:49 PM »
How to you tighten to 1400lbs??  I struggle with 450lbs wheel nuts.
I see you have a hemi. Im doing lifter/cam job on sons at the moment.

Used a 3/4" drive @ 650 Ft Lb torque wrench with a 4 to 1 torque multiplier - that's 350 ft lb at the handle.
Is the lifter/cam job related to any valve seat issues on that Hemi?
Dan & Sandy
North Central Florida
PD4104-129 since 1979
Toads: 2009 Jeep GC Limited 4X4 5.7L Hemi
             2008 GMC Envoy SLT 4x4 4.2L IL Vortec

 

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